Doomworld Rules

[Ludi]

Hey all!

 

If it doesn't already exist, I think this site would benefit greatly from a definitive ruleset. I've seen a lot of people get banned lately, and I think this could partially be curbed with a definitive set of rules somewhere on the site. It would be good for everyone :)

[TheFocus]

agreed. 

 

[Daytime Waitress]

It is a bit bizarre that this kind of thing is not stickied somewhere.

Would it be a good idea for such a "housekeeping" thread to also include links to commonly re-posted topics, in an effort to make threads that have been dredged up time and time again become less common?

[Redneckerz]

This comes back every now and then together with:

• Who is the staff? - You can find the staff directory here.
• What is allowed?
• Is Doomkid actually Frank Zappa?

And so on.

 

Rule of the thumb: Use your common sense. Which generally translates to Don't be a dick.

[Kinsie]

3 hours ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

Hey all!

 

If it doesn't already exist, I think this site would benefit greatly from a definitive ruleset. I've seen a lot of people get banned lately, and I think this could partially be curbed with a definitive set of rules somewhere on the site. It would be good for everyone :)

Rule 1: Don't suck ass.

Rule 2: See Rule 1.

[Ludi]

10 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

Rule 1: Don't suck ass.

Rule 2: See Rule 1.

 

That doesn't answer my question, and that's really deductive. My point is that we should have at least some basic guidelines rather than just dipping your toes in the water, just to discover something isn't okay and to be banned for it.

 

I bring this up in the first place because many of my friends were banned from this forum, and I want to avoid that happening again. It's not good for any party involved. I feel like this would not only be helpful for newbies, but also maybe even for older members :)

 

DW is not a perfect site in any way, but I care about it a lot and would love to help it improve. I bring this up in earnest and love for the site.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Sr_Ludicolo

[pcorf]

30 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Rule of the thumb: Use your common sense. Which generally translates to Don't be a dick.

 

I was a dick once when I was frustrated, bored, down and depressed in my life and even got banned on here back in 2006 I recall. There was only one way around this, be strong, accept the critics and learn from it. And once Whispers of Satan was released I got the word symmetry spat in my face for years and I just decided to take it with stride and work around this issue. Keep positive, believe in yourself an great things will happen. It's all about maturity, you a need a strong mind.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

There has been talk about the pros and cons of having a specific set of rules for a long time. There is still an old rules page, but it is as fun to read as a terms of service agreement. @Redneckerz probably has a link to it. No offense to the dude who made it by the way. I can only assume that the staff has decided against a concrete set of rules. Based on everything I've seen since being a member, most people who get banned are those who bring up political stuff. This just isn't the place for that. I've seen a few members get banned for reasons that seemed unfair to me at first, but then I go through their history only to find out they were either outright lying about why they were banned or downplaying their behavior.

 

All I can really say is that the moderators have always treated me with respect, and I'm not always the most polite person either.

Edited August 15, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[xScavengerWolfx]

Honestly i think the mods of the site should answer this question for you.

 

As for me, i'm the type that just pops in, see if anyone done anything and pops out. Just like me in high school.

 

Could always ask Doomkid about this stuff.

[xScavengerWolfx]

49 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Is Doomkid actually Frank Zappa?

That would not surprise me if doomkid was an reincarnation of frank zappa lol

[Jello]

1 hour ago, Daytime Waitress said:

It is a bit bizarre that this kind of thing is not stickied somewhere.

Would it be a good idea for such a "housekeeping" thread to also include links to commonly re-posted topics, in an effort to make threads that have been dredged up time and time again become less common?

Alright, this post turned out longer that I thought:

 

Interesting that you mention threads that have been dredged up time and time again, or new threads on the same topic in this thread. Because I can't recall how many "Doomworld forum rules" threads I've seen. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a definite set of rules.

 

My rule would be "Don't post on here like you would on 4chan or Reddit. This is Doomworld, there are rules." Which of course begs the question, well, what are the rules?

 

It boils down to being civil to each other. There are people here from countries all over the world, people from all different walks of life, you could really go on and on. Just be civil.

 

Don't instantly insult someone you disagree with, don't derail a thread with petty arguments; stick to the topic. Don't post racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, any kind of phobic (aside from arachnophobic I guess) or anything that denigrates another human being. Don't post about politics, because that will cause problems. I can't remember the last time I saw a thread that talked about global politics here in any earnest. We're on a videogame forum, those discussions can be brought elsewhere. Doomworld doesn't want to stifle free speech, but they don't want to turn into /pol/ and I don't blame them.

 

So it boils down to "Is what I'm saying meaningful to the discourse? Is this leading towards a productive conversation, or am I just being a shit heel?" And yes, meaningful to the discourse and productive conversation does include posting pictures of cats and dogs and funny pictures in threads. You don't need a long, thought out post to contribute. You just have to not be a shit heel.

 

And don't shitpost. Don't post the same thing over and over again, don't post things just because you think they might incense people for your LULZ. I've seen so many people who get warned time and time again that "Hey, uh... you might want to stop doing that". And then they keep doing that same thing, and then they get banned.

 

The rule that I've gone by is simply this: Don't be a shithead. I've gotten one warning point in 20 years, just a warning which doesn't really mean anything, and it was because I was being a shithead.

 

I've never really seen someone banned because they didn't deserve it, Doomworld is a pretty welcoming community. Don't pick fights where they aren't needed, especially in the open forums. If you really need to tear into someone, do it via PM, or email, or go on IRC, whatever you choose, just keep it off the forums.

 

 

Edit: And as far as "Is Doomkid Frank Zappa?" well... HE IS TO ME DAMMIT!

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jello

[Ludi]

5 minutes ago, Jello said:

Alright, this post turned out longer that I thought:

 

Interesting that you mention threads that have been dredged up time and time again, or new threads on the same topic in this thread. Because I can't recall how many "Doomworld forum rules" threads I've seen. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a definite set of rules.

 

My rule would be "Don't post on here like you would on 4chan or Reddit. This is Doomworld, there are rules." Which of course begs the question, well, what are the rules?

 

It boils down to being civil to each other. There are people here from countries all over the world, people from all different walks of life, you could really go on and on. Just be civil.

 

Don't instantly insult someone you disagree with, don't derail a thread with petty arguments; stick to the topic. Don't post racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, any kind of phobic (aside from arachnophobic I guess) or anything that denigrates another human being. Don't post about politics, because that will cause problems. I can't remember the last time I saw a thread that talked about global politics here in any earnest. We're on a videogame forum, those discussions can be brought elsewhere. Doomworld doesn't want to stifle free speech, but they don't want to turn into /pol/ and I don't blame them.

 

So it boils down to "Is what I'm saying meaningful to the discourse? Is this leading towards a productive conversation, or am I just being a shitheel?"

 

And don't shitpost. Don't post the same thing over and over again, don't post things just because you think they might incense people for your LULZ. I've seen so many people who get warned time and time again that "Hey, uh... you might want to stop doing that". And then they keep doing that same thing, and then they get banned.

 

The rule that I've gone by is simply this: Don't be a shithead. I've gotten one warning point in 20 years, just a warning which doesn't really mean anything, and it was because I was being a shithead.

 

I've never really seen someone banned because they didn't deserve it, Doomworld is a pretty welcoming community. Don't pick fights where they aren't needed, especially in the open forums. If you really need to tear into someone, do it via PM, or email, or go on IRC, whatever you choose, just keep it off the forums.

 

 

Edit: And as far as "Is Doomkid Frank Zappa?" well... HE IS TO ME DAMMIT!

 

THIS answers my question. I'm satisfied. Someone put this on gold pages!

 

If Doomkid made Weasels Ripped My Flesh, I could die happy

Edited August 15, 2022 by Sr_Ludicolo

[Biodegradable]

I wrote my own Survival Guide of sorts based on my own experience and observations for an old post on the subject here. It still feels pretty relevant.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

23 minutes ago, Jello said:

I've gotten one warning point in 20 years, just a warning which doesn't really mean anything, and it was because I was being a shithead.

This kind of makes me feel like a dick. I've been here for two years, seven warnings. I can't do the math but I think that means you're only like 3.2% of the shithead I am. You're a really good member though, so I'm not surprised.

[Jello]

14 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

I wrote my own Survival Guide of sorts based on my own experience and observations for an old post on the subject here. It still feels pretty relevant.

I forgot about that post Biodegradable, as soon as I started reading it I remembered how good it was. And you bullet pointed things, which makes it far better than mine. We have some very similar ideas, but you expounded upon them, and if they were going to take a list and use it to hammer out official rules, I'd go with yours. I was just kind of going off on a tangent, I tend to meander at times; but you did post a really damn good set of "advice", if not rules. It should be stickied, or at least a variation.

 

Especially the thing about not posting in long dead threads if you don't have any new information, so I'm gonna go post in it and say how awesome it is! (Yeah, no I'm not, we don't need old threads brought up to the top.)

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jello

[Bauul]

An important consideration about Doomworld that I've seen some newer members not fully understand to begin with is that, for better or worse, the contents of this website form an indelible written history of the Doom custom content scene.

 

Every thread, every comment, every status update and Like you give a comment form a permanent record of the state of the community at that moment in time. Years from now, people will be looking back through the history of the website and see those comments, just as we look back through the history of Doomworld today to understand the community's past so far.

 

In light of that, a good rule of thumb would be "don't post anything you don't want an entire generation of future Doom community members to judge you on for decades to come". 

[Jello]

14 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

This kind of makes me feel like a dick. I've been here for two years, seven warnings. I can't do the math but I think that means you're only like 3.2% of the shithead I am. You're a really good member though, so I'm not surprised.

Well, I've been here for a long time, and I posted some stupid crap back when I was younger, and even less younger, and even not so young. But that was before the warning system, and it's quite possible that I would've been warned for it. At least I wasn't outright banned, but I never tried to start fights. Just posted stupid thoughts. So don't be too hard on yourself; I tend to enjoy what you have to say. Which brings me to Bauul:

 

10 minutes ago, Bauul said:

An important consideration about Doomworld that I've seen some newer members not fully understand to begin with is that, for better or worse, the contents of this website form an indelible written history of the Doom custom content scene.

 

Every thread, every comment, every status update and Like you give a comment form a permanent record of the state of the community at that moment in time. Years from now, people will be looking back through the history of the website and see those comments, just as we look back through the history of Doomworld today to understand the community's past so far.

 

In light of that, a good rule of thumb would be "don't post anything you don't want an entire generation of future Doom community members to judge you on for decades to come". 

This is a very good point. I can still read the stupid things I said, and so can everyone else. So yeah, just try to think before you post.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jello

[Doomkid]

Doomworld rules!

Ah, awesome! After so much constant scrutiny, it feels nice to hear some appreciation.

 

 

...oh wait

 

lol in all seriousness the other mods and I are working on some definitive rule set :) stay tuned..

[Jello]

54 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

 

 

Ah, awesome! After so much constant scrutiny, it feels nice to hear some appreciation.

 

 

...oh wait

 

 

  Hide contents

lol in all seriousness the other mods and I are working on some definitive rule set :) stay tuned..

 

Yay, Frank Zappa is here to save us from these questions!

 

As for the definitive rule set, I don't envy your task. I mean, it's literally just been "Don't be a dick" for so long, I can see the many variables that need to be incorporated into that. What is a "dick" to one person may not be a "dick" to another, depending on their upbringing and culture. And given the wide audience that Doom has attracted in twenty nine years, and it's attracted more new players since '16 and Eternal, who are used to a completely different internet than in the 90's and early 2000's, you guys have been doing it well. I do think Biodegradable's list is a good starting point is a good start.

 

So kudos to the mods. I think they keep quite a bit of shit off of here than we realize. Although if you do put a forum list rule as a stickied post at the top of every single subforum, do you really expect people to read it? We'd still be seeing this constantly. Maybe putting an agreement before you open an account asking if they agree or disagree would be helpful.

 

I still miss posthell and the Picard Song though. I know getting rid of posthell was an attempt to dissuade people from shitposting, but it was such an amazing repository of what not to do.

 

Well, best of luck to you all.

 

[Redneckerz]

3 hours ago, pcorf said:

It's all about maturity, you a need a strong mind.

This is basically it. The influx of new users are more or less people who were born when Doom 3 came out (God that makes me feel old) or slightly older and as such are quite literally a different generation of users.

 

Perhaps at best a stickied thread (Or even a thread with the old archived rules) in Everything Else/General would suffice, together with a link to the staff directory. Not ideal, but i'd reckon it would catch the majority of questions that could arise and atleast it provides a quicker link to the staff

3 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

There has been talk about the pros and cons of having a specific set of rules for a long time. There is still an old rules page, but it is as fun to read as a terms of service agreement. @Redneckerz probably has a link to it. 

Indeed, i have. Here is the archived Rules. Ling is on the record stating he wanted to put it on ratethedocs.org, but nothing of the sort has materialized.

3 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

All I can really say is that the moderators have always treated me with respect, and I'm not always the most polite person either.

i figured you were always more in the eye of the beholder than most because you are pretty blunt in your statements. But so is someone like Decay. Whether one likes it or not - That's how they respond. I know better than that, but sometimes i just let things go and that's where the corrective measurement comes in. And its good its there. Reminds you that there is a time and a place to be a little more on edge rather than treating everyone with a pitchfork the same way.

 

I agree on the sentiment though. Staff is definitely leaning enough to be acceptive of things provided you have a good record here and generally treat them like you treat everyone else (Humans). Compromises exist for a reason: Its a little give and a little take.  

 

That doesn't always work out for everyone though, but i generally believe that's the best mindset to approach things. Disagreement when due, but always with a smither of respect. After all the staff are doing this voluntarily and have real life jobs/families aswell. 

3 hours ago, xScavengerWolfx said:

That would not surprise me if doomkid was an reincarnation of frank zappa lol

Zappa's experiments definitely allow for such a thing to happen. But i guess Doomkid needs to show some ID to prove otherwise :P

3 hours ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

 

THIS answers my question. I'm satisfied. Someone put this on gold pages!

But does this really need to be laid out to you, though? Because what Jello writes is essentially an explanation of the Don't be a dick/use common sense ruling. 

 

[Murdoch]

No @Doomkid is not frank zappa but he has apparently been playing guitar for German prog metal group Scardust without telling us.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/dxw1RTYrd2AmNKvk9

[Jello]

7 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

No @Doomkid is not frank zappa but he has apparently been playing guitar for German prog metal group Scardust without telling us.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/dxw1RTYrd2AmNKvk9

Oh shit. But how can you know that's not Frank in disguise? And yeah, I saw @Doomkid's pic in the other thread, beautiful hair, luscious. But if anyone could pull it off, it would be Frank Zappa. I need DNA samples.

 

20 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

But does this really need to be laid out to you, though? Because what Jello writes is essentially an explanation of the Don't be a dick/use common sense ruling. 

I thank you for mentioning that. Because that's what I've been trying to say every time this comes up, and it never seems that complicated to me. "Am I antagonizing someone without merit? Oh, I might be a dick." "Is everyone I meet on this forum a dick? Well, then I might be the dick."

 

Reminds me of a joke my father told to me, and his father told him; and I'm sure it's told all over the world: "Did you encounter an asshole on the way to work this morning? Well, that guy was an asshole. Was everyone you encountered on the way to work this morning an asshole? You're probably the asshole."

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jello

[Doomkid]

31 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

No @Doomkid is not frank zappa but he has apparently been playing guitar for German prog metal group Scardust without telling us.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/dxw1RTYrd2AmNKvk9

 
(Damnit, they’re onto me..)

[Kinsie]

4 hours ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

That doesn't answer my question, and that's really deductive. My point is that we should have at least some basic guidelines rather than just dipping your toes in the water, just to discover something isn't okay and to be banned for it.

It's all you truly need and it stops "WELL IT DOESN'T SAY THAT I CAN'T SHIT ON THE CARPET" rules-lawyering garbage by the chronically insufferable.

[Ordon]

27 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

 
(Damnit, they’re onto me..)

i wish Doomkid was real

[Stupid Bunny]

4 hours ago, Doomkid said:

lol in all seriousness the other mods and I are working on some definitive rule set :) stay tuned..

 

So ready for the inevitable "Doomworld has rules now, this place is turning into 1984" thread

 

2 hours ago, Jello said:

I still miss posthell and the Picard Song though. I know getting rid of posthell was an attempt to dissuade people from shitposting, but it was such an amazing repository of what not to do.

 

Yes plus it gave the site added personality and contained some iconic if obviously rather dopey parts of the community's history.  I understand though that dissuasions aside it would be hard to implement it properly with the current site tech.

 

2 hours ago, Jello said:

Although if you do put a forum list rule as a stickied post at the top of every single subforum, do you really expect people to read it? We'd still be seeing this constantly.

 

Yes note the number of bright eyed new mappers who post a thread comprised of "here is my new map download here" in defiance of the READ THIS FIRST thread

 

I can't really think of a time in recent memory that I thought the mods were overstepping their power or being unfair in banning somebody--it doesn't happen that often anyway.  To be honest I do think that the "don't be a dick" thing is pretty effective; yes there's a gray area where "being a bit direct or abrasive in a well-meaning way" vs. "being mean and rude for no good reason" can be hard to differentiate, but for the most part the ban cases don't involve those gray areas.  Curious to see what the Doomworld Civil Code looks like, but I doubt I'll find much objectionable there.

 

Or we can just use these 

Spoiler

1. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TYPE '^' OR CHEAT IN ANY WAY, ON PAIN OF EXPULSION.

2. ALWAYS OBEY THE WARNING SIGNS.

3. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE BLESSED ENGINE, PRESS F1 NOW.

4. READ 'A FIRE UPON THE DEEP' BY VERNOR VINGE AND ' CONSIDER PHLEBAS' BY IAIN M BANKS.

5. HAVE A NICE DAY (OR ELSE).

6.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Stupid Bunny

[wallabra]

7 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

• Is Doomkid actually Frank Zappa?

 

Oh come on, who are you to tell us that Doomkid isn't Frank Zappa? Huh? Where's your authority?

[mrthejoshmon]

6 hours ago, Jello said:

And don't shitpost.

I uh, yeah, don't do that.

 

At all.

 

Ever.

 

Genuine question, have I been breaking the rules?

Edited August 15, 2022 by mrthejoshmon

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Jello said:

And yeah, I saw @Doomkid's pic in the other thread, beautiful hair, luscious.

 

Yeah the dude should be in shampoo commercials. 

[pavera]

Out of curiosity, what would you expect the rule list to contain, if one were to be in place? It makes me wonder what kind of behavior one plans to engage in if they are worried about getting banned so easily without one.