What enemy do you think can ruin a level or section of it if used incorrectly?

[Faceman2000]

2 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

several reasons it'd take way too much writing to get into.

To summarize for @TheMightyWhoosh, just about every “bad” idea can be good when done correctly, and just about every “good” idea can be awful when implemented incorrectly. Furthermore, there’s always the question of personal taste - an extreme example we’ve seen just in this thread is sandwedge, who says they’ve never seen a level ruined by poor Revenant placement, vs NaturalTvventy, who asserts that ANY Revenant will ruin a level. An extreme example, sure, but it illustrates the point that anything you do in a level, there will always be people who don’t like it. Design levels that you find fun and don’t worry yourself trying to compile a list of “never do this” ideas.

[danidf96]

14 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

It brings up an interesting philosophical question, is it really possible to use a monster "incorrectly"? Or is it a case of the mapper choosing the incorrect monster types or making general shitty poorly thought out decisions that truly ruins maps?

 

 

It's a matter of what the creator has in mind. Part of the fun in doom is how relativly simple the enemies are compared o other fps , and because of that you can create many different situations or scenarios.

The first thing that comes to mind is the chaingunner and archvile duo in the first level of plutonia, two enemies that dont really complement each other at first glance just so happen to work because of a fantastic idea by the creator of putting the archvile behind a wall. It's only function is to revive the chaingunner inifintly and then chase after you.

For me the best combat scenarios are the ones that have enemies that complement or combo of each other, always keeping in mind the resources given to the player. That is why if i had to answer my own question i'd say generally speaking the most misutalized enemy in Doom is the baron of hell, he just seems to be tossed around for no reason when a hell knight or even an imp could serve the same function. Worst of all he doesn't really combo all that much so most of the times you see a baron of hell is in groups or by itself.

You bring up a great point. Do you blame the blacksmith or the tools he is given? My answer to that is simple if a begginer blacksmith is given top of the line tools he would probably still make a mediocre product, but if you give an expert blacksmith simple tools he might just create the best thing you have ever seen.

[LadyMistDragon]

Literally any if you just make a map largely featuring tight corridors. Otherwise, nobody likes shotgunning Barons, but even that's ok in limited doses. Or placing an Arachnotron a million miles away in an open area where there's nowhere to hide (thank you Metal from TNT for doing such a horrible job of honing its actual threat!)

 

And I see my post count. Looks like it's 1776 all over again!!! NEVER FORGET

Edited August 18, 2022 by LadyMistDragon

[Sotenga]

Revenants, Revenants, Revenants. They're the easiest monster to potentially abuse due to their relatively light health compared to other mid-and-high level monsters but still double the amount of health over Demons and Spectres. Thus, they fill a unique niche that no other monster quite fills up where they're not damage sponges but they're not total wusses either. They thus become the standard monster to spam for slaughter hordes, neglecting the fact that their projectiles are extremely fucking obnoxious. Good Revenant usage respects their glass cannon status and knows how to mix them up with other monsters. Bad Revenant usage makes you swear they're the only fucking monster in the entire map. 

 

I admit I have biased salt against them, but I don't feel as ripped off when I lose to any other monster. Except maybe a Cyberdemon. Or a "Chain-Sniper."

Edited August 18, 2022 by Sotenga

[DoomGuy438]

Well, I have been playing doom since around 2010 or 2011 when my dad let me play it for the first time and I think that the most annoying enemy for me even now, has been the shotgunners because if you are in a room without a shotgun or a fast firing weapon, you will most likely die against shotgunners

[heliumlamb]

i'm hesitant to say any, really.
a few years ago i might have said archviles or revenants but after playing a bit of quake again neither of those are as wretched as the mofu mofu lightning fiends or the shalrath with her purple spiked balls that are actually homing compared to anything that the revenant might shoot out

[peach freak]

Putting enemies like Arachnotrons or Mancubi into cramped up areas, with their size they won't be able to do much and become far less of a threat.

[ChestedArmor]

If we included non-vanilla enemies, I'd say Supershotgun Zombies and Marauders are a pain in the ass to get right

[ChestedArmor]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:00 AM, BerserkerNoir said:

Dozens of Chaingunners Sniping from a very long Distance... With an Archvile Behind them.

Welcome to Plutonia

[Dubbag]

I would have to say the Pain Elemental.

[Firedust]

Pain Elementals. Deploy them far away from the player or in the middle of a group of monsters so they are guaranteed to infight and say goodbye to all your ammo.

[Anarkzie]

I have to agree with everyone who is saying Revenants. It's not just that they can be miss used it's also that they're the most commonly missed enemy with mappers frequently placing excessively large groups of them as a substitute for an original encounter. Most mappers know not to over do it with chaingunners or not to place an Arachnotron or a Mancubus in a room that does not have space.

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum I feel that in order for Pain Elementals to be used effectively they need to be placed in large enough numbers to justify their inclusion. One Pain Elemental alone in a group of other enemies is usually tedious as they're only able to spit out enough Lost Souls to get in the way of your bullets hitting it. Maps like Go to it or the upgraded Elementals in Doom 64 are examples of them being used well. I prefer mappers just placing Lost Souls manually, rather than using a solitary Pain Elemental.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Anarkzie

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Hitscanner ambushes and sniping towers. At least place a side route to easily take them out to speed up the map. Super annoying if it is chaingunners placed above the player sightline.

[QuaketallicA]

Zombie Soldiers. Easily the most cortisol-inducing, lead-pumping machines on your entire Doomed planet. Just one of these bad boys alone makes 500 Spider Masterminds look like 500 cranium-flavored candy bars. I'll take 1,000 Archviles, 10,000 Barons, and 1,000,000 Revenants any day before daring to face one lone Zombie Soldier with nothing but my meager BFG. 

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/782330/discussions/0/2148721148474795897/

Edited August 23, 2022 by QuaketallicA

[QuaketallicA]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:09 PM, heliumlamb said:

i'm hesitant to say any, really.
a few years ago i might have said archviles or revenants but after playing a bit of quake again neither of those are as wretched as the mofu mofu lightning fiends or the shalrath with her purple spiked balls that are actually homing compared to anything that the revenant might shoot out

Quake 1 was a hard game on Nightmare!