What's the best way to indicate a locked door without keys?

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Sees title

 

"What does that mean?"

 

 Hey all, Dusty here. I was playing Alien Vendetta earlier and some of the Brad Spencer tech base maps (which are excellent) have locked doors. However they aren't unlocked using the regular keycards and skulls, they use switches in other rooms to open. This is perfectly fine, I've seen it used in many maps, and it was a design staple in the Community Chest era early 2000s wad period. You see it in a lot of maps from 2000 - 2007, to me that seems to be the height of the "sprawling, hyper detailed, full - of - locked - doors - without - keys tech base" levels. I think this is a fine design concept and I also love early 2000s wads so I'm used to it. But in my own map making, I can see how nowadays this concept could be frustrating. You go up to a door, it looks like every other door in the map. Inexplicably, it doesn't open to the space bar (or "E" if you're a ZDoom player, most likely), nor does it open when shot. See how that has a potential to be frustrating? I've seen a few people complain about these when they show up, mostly because it's hard to tell, not because it's locked.

 

"But Dusty, why'd you post this in Doom General and not the editing topic?"

 

Well I think this is worth having a discussion about. Is the best method setting aside one of the default door textures as the "locked" door? Maybe using BIGDOOR3 only for locked but keyless doors? Is this even worth using in modern mapping? I think as mundane as it sounds at first, there's actually an interesting subject here. I also feel that you see them in 2000s wads more since it seems world building in those tech bases was more of a priority. They always had things you'd logically see in a space bunker, computer rooms, warehouses, mess halls, etc. Why wouldn't a UAC base not have locked doors that require more than the three keycards? Vrack probably influenced this mindset quite a bit.

 

I'm getting ahead of myself: back to doors. Is there a good custom texture to indicate it's locked? Maybe an alternate one to show it's now open? Would the BIGDOOR3 method work, or the player not notice the distinction, consciously or unconsciously? Maybe you'd have to do like Sigil does and force the player to unlock three in a row. Again, a custom texture would probably be best - the brain becomes blind to stock textures after a while since we've seen them so often. I think Mapgame, a really great Boom Ultimate Doom wad, does this. It's been a while since I've played but I think I remember one of the stock door textures being locked and always needing a switch located elsewhere to open it.

 

So what do you think? Is this outdated and annoying? Is it a good concept that's easy to execute poorly? What's the best method of doing this? What's the most interesting one you've seen?

 

Curious what the replies will be.  

[Stupid Bunny]

One trick I’ve attempted is to mark the switch and the door with matching lights or something similar, same in concept as the colored key textures. Of course, it isn’t enough to just put LITE5 in the doorway, since everybody does that, so I’ll have a light just to the side of the door and then also just to the same side of the switch. It’s not foolproof, of course, it’s a detail not everybody is going to catch, and I think the sign has to be conspicuous and distinctive enough to not just be another detail to the player, but done right I think it’s better than nothing.

 

EDIT: v Yes exactly like this! And FIREBLU is an especially class choice 👌

Edited September 2, 2022 by Stupid Bunny

[Fernito]

Interesting thread!

 

My approach is to use both a specific door texture for locked doors and a special texture to mark both the switch and the door, so the player knows which switch unlocks which door (example in the spoiler)

 

Spoiler

 

I'm also curious about other mapper's approaches.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Fernito

[Dragonfly]

There's a couple things I tend to do in this context. The main one is "Don't make it look like a door". Having a wall that either blends in with the environment or is built in such a way it is obviously going to lower later on is the way I'd usually handle this.

 

The other option which I don't mind is making it so the switch is very clearly visible from the door that's locked - this provides two-way signposting where you can identify from the door where your objective is, and vice versa, when you press the switch you see what the hell the switch actually did.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Dragonfly

[Benjogami]

IMO make the door so conspicuous or interesting that the player will know that it definitely opens at some point. And then all you need is a switch that gives the same vibe.

 

Pretty much anything that makes it unlike the other doors. If it doesn't open when you press use on it and the other ones do, that's a pretty good start ;)

 

Maybe don't put any other kind of door in the map :D

[Kyka]

Agree with the replies so far. Doors that are just locked, well, just because no reason, annoys me.

 

There are two ways that I will handle this in mapping now. The first is to signpost the door in some way. eg: this door here, with the little WOLF texture inset:

 

 

... is matched by the symbols on this switch here:

 

 

Another example. Here the player may notice these two skull pillars marking this wall:

 

 

Later in the level the player may find the secret shown in the following screen. When shooting the distant target, the two skull pillars will raise,

 

hopefully causing the player to connect this to to the earlier skull pillars that they saw, and returning to find that the silver tnt logo is raised to reveal a switch:

 

 

The other way I handle locked doors is, as others have mentioned, putting bars or a barrier in front of a door. This clearly indicates that a switch/trigger line must be found to progress through that door, as you can see the door beyond the barrier:

 

 

soz for wall of images. @Dragonfly makes a good point also about having the switch visible from where the locked door is.

 

One final story. I received feedback from a playtester for tnt forever, and there were two identical doors on opposite sides of a symmetrical room. One was a locked door, and required you to go through the other door, hit a switch and upon your return you would find that the locked door was now unlocked. Trouble is, this playtester rocked into this room, used the locked door, concluded that both doors were locked, and left the area. Seeing as that area was the next step in the level's progression, the playtester wandered around lost for a while, which is not ideal. :)

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Kyka
because I apparently can't put images in the correct places in a post.

[Lucius Wooding]

I'm in favor of a technique where you make the door have its own motif or texture combination and use a doomcute model near or on top of the switch that demonstrates what it did. Eviternity did it with a little mini throne in map 4 and I used it a few times to telegraph monster closets (and progression switches inside them) opening in my last map. Not that the flood of monsters didn't already do that enough of course. It might be a bit on the nose if you want a realistic experience but I find it fun to make and it has a bit of personality to it.

 

A little baby slimefall, electronic panels, and miniature pipes respectively lowered right behind a trio of switches and they had corresponding full size features which opened up elsewhere in the map. You can do it with the same tag and line special as well. It encourages you to make use of distinctive landmarks which is a good idea too.

Spoiler

 

The main limitation here is it works best if you can either scale textures with advanced ports, or it's a texture that translates well to being cropped down, like a slimefall. It may take some creativity depending when you're using more of a traditional door texture but generally you can get the point across.

[SilverMiner]

I'd make them look like keyed doors but requiring a non-existent key (e.g. green)

[mrthejoshmon]

One thing I like to do is use the Blue light texture, have a 1pixel sector on it set to "glow" at maximum light level and have the switch preferably in visual range also marked by the same lights.

 

Another thing I did, most notably in my NOVA 2 map, is use the signs from the Doom Alpha to mark doors and related switches.

 

Another alternative I am exploring is a screen that changes after the switch is pressed:

 

We'll see how that goes

[Casketkrusher]

Sometimes I use colors especially with dynamic lights, like a green hue around a switch opens a door with green hued lights. Makes my maps somewhat more explorable with different doors that open simultaneously when flipping a switch. Atleast that's what I like.

[Gez]

You could take a leaf from Heretic and use a specific set of textures for switch-operated doors, so that they are visually distinct from player-used doors.

 

For example, in the techbase theme:

- BIGDOOR1 is switch operated

- BIGDOOR2/3/4 are directly used

for the narrow space doors:

- SPCDOOR1/2/3 are directly used

- SPCDOOR4 is switch-operated

and for the Hellwood theme:

- BIGDOOR5 is switch operated

- BIGDOOR6/7 are directly used

 

For custom textures, I'd suggest generally going with a similar approach: if a door just had that "Doom door look" or features some sort of visible handle or control panel that allows manual operation: manual door. If it is relatively devoid of gribble or doesn't look too much like a door, then it's switch-operated.

[RonnieJamesDiner]

Echoing what has basically been said, but for me the two big ones in this case are usually:

- Don't use the same texture that you're using for normal doors (i.e. teach the player the difference)

- Build the layout in such a way that players can see the door opening when they hit the switch (which will probably have the additional benefit of cutting out backtracking)

 

I always liked the idea of color patterns or doom cute stuff indicating that a door and switch are related, as many have mentioned, but in my experience it doesn't always work. A map is generally full of colors, structures, and little details that players have obviously never seen before, and specific "signposting" of this sort can very easily be forgotten on a blind playthrough (especially if there's a lot of travelling and fighting between seeing the door, and discovering the switch). Not saying it isn't worth using this method, I just wouldn't rely on it exclusively. 

[Walter confetti]

Use torches

[Dusty_Rhodes]

6 hours ago, Stupid Bunny said:

One trick I’ve attempted is to mark the switch and the door with matching lights or something similar, same in concept as the colored key textures. Of course, it isn’t enough to just put LITE5 in the doorway, since everybody does that, so I’ll have a light just to the side of the door and then also just to the same side of the switch. It’s not foolproof, of course, it’s a detail not everybody is going to catch, and I think the sign has to be conspicuous and distinctive enough to not just be another detail to the player, but done right I think it’s better than nothing.

 

EDIT: v Yes exactly like this! And FIREBLU is an especially class choice 👌

That's not a bad idea. I think small details are okay, I prefer the subtlety over putting bars or the like.

 

5 hours ago, Fernito said:

Interesting thread!

 

My approach is to use both a specific door texture for locked doors and a special texture to mark both the switch and the door, so the player knows which switch unlocks which door (example in the spoiler)

Seeing this, I realized I've actually used this method with the exact same door texture! In a bonus map for Community Trunk (coming out soon I swear :p) I used a switch to open the same style of door and I think it conveys the fact it's locked very well. They're like only used in American McGee maps as far as I remember. 

 

5 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

The other option which I don't mind is making it so the switch is very clearly visible from the door that's locked - this provides two-way signposting 

I think this is the probably the best method, especially when combined with my previous quote. I'm less of a fan of:

 

5 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

"Don't make it look like a door". Having a wall that either blends in 

Solely because that's great for traps but less logical for the progression. I prefer to have progression behind more "normal" things. With obvious exceptions; lowering walls can be really effective for looking dramatic. 

 

4 hours ago, Kyka said:

soz for wall of  images 

Forgiven :p

 

I really like the signposting concept. Looking at wads I really like, CChest Map02 does this with what I assume are laser defenses. Thomas van der Verden is the goat. I actually did something similar in the same map I mentioned earlier. 

 

4 hours ago, SilverMiner said:

I'd make them look like keyed doors but requiring a non-existent key (e.g. green)

That is an interesting solution. My only fear would be that people would search for a new green key. Though if the switch is also marked it would make a lot of sense.

[Doomy__Doom]

31 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

That is an interesting solution. My only fear would be that people would search for a new green key. Though if the switch is also marked it would make a lot of sense. 

If willing to invest a key (or all 3/all 6 key combos in Boom), one could dehack the text to say something like "look for a marked switch", clueing the player to pay attention to the signposting approach more consciously. Noone said a key action must actually ever open anything :)

 

Or if we're looking for more silly side ideas - use music changer/monster dehacked to play a "look for a xxx switch" voiceline.

[MTrop]

Every map is still a microcosm in itself. If you have doors that open remotely in your map, establish early that all of those doors look the same, and you have a differing door that you can immediately open to establish a pattern of what door does what (players will still double-check those doors anyway). Same goes for "what lifts are" and other map features.

 

Texture or decoration adornments work pretty well for matching switches or triggers to closed doors via color or pattern, though I tend to use colors over patterns. I'm a big fan of the player having a line of sight to whatever a switch or trigger opens, or being close enough to be in earshot of an affected object's sounds. It keeps your map feeling like the placement of doors, switches, and points of view are intentional to the world that you are building, instead of something like a switch being on the opposite side of the map to what it affects, unless the player has no choice but to re-traverse where it affects.

 

If a door is opened by a switch and it is easy to miss on the way back, a nice brainhack that I like to do is put a monster behind that opened door, so it'll immediately attract the player's attention once it's opened (see Adventures of Square E2A6, after the big switch that reveals the tanks is flipped and the missable door to the red area is opened - there's a projectile firing guy that will immediately alert the player as they make their way back to the central blue chamber). Players always respond to threats, so anything that pulls their attention will create those notes of where to go next.

Edited September 2, 2022 by MTrop

[Dusty_Rhodes]

1 hour ago, Doomy__Doom said:

If willing to invest a key (or all 3/all 6 key combos in Boom), one could dehack the text to say something like "look for a marked switch", clueing the player to pay attention to the signposting approach more consciously. Noone said a key action must actually ever open anything :)

 

I've never thought of that but it's rather brilliant. Using BEX and the six key abilities of Boom would work perfectly. I love that.

[Stethr1]

I've always just used BIGDOOR3 for techbase doors that can only be opened by switches since I've rarely seen it used as a regular door. Other times I've just used bars or some kind of object that works like that. Usually I like to put enemies and/or items behind switch doors so that players will notice that the doors been opened and that that's where they're supposed to go now. I usually like to put them in tight areas as well so that players absolutely won't miss them once they start backtracking.

 

tbh I'm not entirely sure myself how to solve this problem, I've kinda just resorted to letting the level funnel the player to said door and switch as a brute force way around it rather than designing doors and switches that intuitively signal to the player what they are.

 

[Dragonfly]

Pretty cool approach indeed; the only downside being that the line action would still say that if the player used the now-opened door. A small detail that most would probably miss though, so not a big deal 👍

[thiccyosh]

Make a small window right next to the door for the player to peek through. Can also be something like a brick wall with some missing bricks.

[Rykzeon]

I'm currently experimenting with texturing style & mapping. Currently the main idea is:

• Dont make the players has a hard time to figure out which kind of door that can be opened or not so players has problem and then confused and maybe frustated (i.e stuck for hours for progressing & just randomly pressing "space" to every door just to check if the door can be directly interacted or not);
• Switch should be eye-catching so its not missed (especially for progressing so there's no need to find the switch for hours just for progressing);
• Door that can be directly-interacted should be like one (i.e as an analogue, in real life, wooden door is a door which can be directly-interacted);
• Door that needs key and can be directly-interacted should be like one (i.e as an analogue, in real life, wooden door that has a keylock is a door that can directly-interacted and most likely locked and needs key);
• Door that needs switch-operable should be like one (i.e as an analogue, in real life, a garage door that needs opened with a switch ^{(and I don't have garage)}). Also its a good idea to make the player can see the door opening when they pressed the switch to provide feedback when they pressed it. If not, then add clue that the switch has connection with the door and make the marks eye-catching ^{(so its not mistaken for decoration)} (maybe a switch that disable forcefield, a switch that disable laser, marks switch and doors with labels like "Power Plant", "1", etc. Maybe if the connection is quite obvious (like there's only 1 switch-operable door, or a quite linear level where the players starts in a room where there's alot of locked doors and when they use a switch, a door opens new area) probably it's unneccessary, but I prefer to have a switch that gives feedback.

Maybe if you need example I can provide my door texturing example :v



My current Earth UAC theme texturing style:
This style is based from UACDEAD.wad and mainly used with DOOM.WAD (Doom 1 texture pack). Soon some of the texturing style guidelines will changed after I digging to texture packs lol.
Big Doors:

• BIGDOOR1 = Door that can be opened directly without needing switch;
• BIGDOOR1 with DOORBLU, DOORYEL, or DOORRED = Door that can be opened directly without needing switch but needs key;^{TBH, this is kinda awkward for the theme and the texturing style so probably an extended SPCDOOR3 texture will work. Or better, just use switch-operatable key type because using keycard directly to big doors is kinda meh for my taste. Like, how does it work? You slap the key that you search it for hours to the door and then it stucks to the door while the door goes up and then lose your key? lol}
• BIGDOOR2, BIGDOOR3, BIGDOOR4 for the door that needs opened with switch;
• Switch that has it's border has DOORBLU, DOORYEL, or DOORRED = Switch-operatable key.

^{Personally I see BIGDOOR1 as a futuristic techy slick door that requires the user to walk nearby the door and have intention to enter the room (Smart Doors lol, c'mon its future, maybe in future we have invented something that can read humans mind so all you need is just walk into the door and think you'll enter the room and the door opens itself for you). BIGDOOR2, BIGDOOR3, BIGDOOR4 feels like the bulky door that requires mechanical stuff lol.}

Edited September 2, 2022 by Rycuz

[Kyka]

3 hours ago, MTrop said:

If a door is opened by a switch and it is easy to miss on the way back, a nice brainhack that I like to do is put a monster behind that opened door, so it'll immediately attract the player's attention once it's opened (see Adventures of Square E2A6, after the big switch that reveals the tanks is flipped and the missable door to the red area is opened - there's a projectile firing guy that will immediately alert the player as they make their way back to the central blue chamber). Players always respond to threats, so anything that pulls their attention will create those notes of where to go next.

 

This. 100% this. It is really an effective way to guide the player. I use this often now.

[knifeworld]

I've used bars in front of the door that have the same texture as 1 or 2 bars near the switch that opens them all using the same tag, usually textured with shawn or some metal texture that looks "heavy".
It's either that or I use a door-like texture that's rarely used.
Alternatively, I just have the door be visible from where the switch is.
Another alt method is to use a normal door texture but one that I haven't used for keyed doors in the map.

[Firedust]

What knifeworld said. Alternatively, you can have dim/lit-up textures that change when a corresponding switch is flicked.

 

Or make the door itself a different hue or different texture altogether. If you stay consistent within a mapset, players will surely catch on quickly.

 

On a sidenote, I really miss the sprawling techbase/hell realm style of the 00s... Not many mappers make those kinds of levels anymore.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Firedust

[Scypek2]

I'm confused by so many people bringing up BIGDOOR3, it seems like a perfectly regular door to me. DOOR3 is a nice candidate for me when it's obviously not where you came from, since it's a clear door that's nevertheless frequently unopenable.

 

Other than that, I like using kinda-but-not-quite-interactive-looking textures: MODWALL3 and 4, GRAY1 and GRAY4, METAL2, and SHAWN3 (nicely modular), CEMENT and SILVER1 (fitting stripe at the bottom), SPACEW2 and TEKBRON (vaguely doorlike), and for hell I use WOOD3, WOOD4 and WOOD5, marble faces of all kinds and WOODMET.

[Ayeloo]

I guess the consensus here is to always have some form of immediate, tactile feedback or a cue
Imo, the best but often trickiest solution is just to have the map's flow guide you to where you need to be, be it by making the area where the door is advantageous in some way (monster encounter pressures you to use corners and bottlenecking, or having a large stash of resources that can't all be used at once be there) or by giving the player a new insight (imagery that evokes your goal, for example; All stuff that's been explained here by people way more talented than me lol)

tl;dr the player should progress as they play, because being driven by gameplay is more intuitive than only playing after you progress, so to speak

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I just love these mapper-player communication thought pieces.

I especially agree with Dragonfly, just don't make it look like a door. If it's a part of the progression but for later, have the player circle around, and have it opened with fresh dudes to kill. It feels very natural.

When I do want to make remotely opened doors in vanilla textures, I use the brown metal one, tekbron, I think. But I never let the player get too far before these get open because I know many players get easily turned around, and forget the doors were even there. I'm like that myself.

Not 100% sure about the effectiveness of marking locked doors with some "special" texture that matches a corresponding switch. I would love to know how many people notice, and put the two instinctively together. I much prefer opening a regular-looking wall that lets the player through. But I guess what kind of progression you aim for. Some wads are very laid-back casual shooty bang bang. My favorite. For some, you gotta really crank that gray matter to figure stuff out. Each approach has strengths and weaknesses, which is fine but it needs to be what the player expects from the general experience. Being obtuse can be good, it can also be bad.

[Naarok0fkor]

How do you insert a text indicating that a door can be opened by a switch a long way away from said door when the player presses on the door to open it?

I didn't understand on Doom wiki or Youtube...

[out_of_service]

You could also draw a big arrow pointing at switch & door. Heck even draw a PUSH HERE to let the player know that the two might be connected.

[Worst]

It's very simple, just slap a sticky note on the door that says that it's locked.