[MAJOR UPDATE] Condemned: ZDoom Heretic Episode - WIP (v0.9, co-op and polish is all that's left)

[TheHambourgeois]

 

>>> DOWNLOAD - Version 0.9 <<<
 

AFTER AN INSANELY LONG HIATUS, THE NEW UPDATE IS FINALLY HERE!!!!

 

Condemned is a small Heretic episode designed explicitly for ZDoom. There are 6 normal levels, 1 atmospheric interlude level, and 1 secret level. The focus of the design is as follows:

• Emphasis on a retro feel, not a hypermodern map set
• The presence of advanced engine features grows as you progress, but is minimal
• Custom enemies are present, but minimal in number and distinction from stock enemies
• Level design is fairly compact and interconnected
• Trying to avoid every map being a slaughter map
• There is some emphasis on environmental storytelling, as well as a few hopefully unobtrusive text interludes
• This is dependent on Wayfarer's Tome, the version used as the base is included in the zip archive

 

I hope you enjoy my goofy elf levels!

Story:

Spoiler

You are another Sidhe elf, named Lanius, who fought against D'Sparil's forces during the war preceding the events of Heretic. You have been captured and are awaiting execution.

 

Screens (ed note: some maps shown not in final state):

 

 

 

Credits:
Wayfarer's Tome:

Spoiler

Balancing changes (weapons, items, monsters) by Not Jabba
Sigil of Power by Not Jabba
Lightbringer by Ghastly_dragon, Xaser, Zero Prophet, Neoworm, Eriance, and NeuralStunner; additional sound from Captain Toenail's Apotheosis
Additional gameplay fixes and tweaks by RottKing
Weapon sprite brightmaps, D'Sparil brightness fixes, and smoother Hellstaff animation by Spadger
Staff animations by OSJC
Sound edits by Xaser
Phoenix Rod replacement sounds from Hexen 2
Fixes for various stock sprites from the Heretic Minor Sprite Fixing Project by Revenant100
Widescreen-friendly status bar by Neoworm
Base KEYCONF by Kristus
Pistol start script by JP LeBreton and DevilBlackDeath, modified by Not Jabba, with cleanup by Marisa Kirisame

Condemned:

Spoiler

Mapping, texture edits, music: Hambourgeois

DECORATE: Hambourgeois, but heavily referenced from gzdoom.pk3 and now inheriting from watome_sa.pk3

Hexen and Heretic assets that were the base for other stuff: Raven Software
Hexen assets that were used outright: also Raven Software

 

Old Versions:

Spoiler

condemnedv0_7.zip

 

To-do list:

Spoiler

[X] ALL MAPS DONE!!!

 

[X] Implement Skills 1-3

[/] Compose Music

[X] Create intermission screens in the style of the F1 screen

[  ] Implement Coop starts/things

[X] Create custom sky

[/] Implement balance tweaks/other edits suggested by play testers

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by TheHambourgeois
Holy Mackerel!!! New Version

[Egregor]

I still want to check this out, I've just really been struggling to find enough free time to play any Doom atm.

[TheHambourgeois]

7 hours ago, Egregor said:

I still want to check this out, I've just really been struggling to find enough free time to play any Doom atm.

I know the feeling, I haven't been able to work on this in any real capacity in like 5 days and I have also been wanting to play that level thelokk put out

[Egregor]

Hey, I gave this a spin tonight; the atmosphere and custom texturing fit Heretic really well. These custom textures you created look really good! Each level has a clear theme. The level design is good as well with clever use of key paths that loop back to hubs/arena areas. Hexen format has been implemented subtlety but well.

 

Constructive criticisms: Either there is no custom sky texture atm or it did not load for me. I got a white and blue checkerboard sky which really dampened the immersion. Overall the combat felt a bit sloggy. There was an overall lack of time-bombs which was sorely missed, as a player familiar w Heretic's inventory can use time-bombs to really speed up the combat while also introducing player self-damage. I think of them like grenades or proximity mines, or a poor man's rocket. Not sure if you are intending "classic continuous-play" but my suggestion would be not to. Any level balanced for "wand-start" can be also played continuously but not vice-versa so it behooves the level-designer to design for "wand-start". With that said I'd also suggest a weapon ramp that introduces weapons sooner in your levels and uses most weapons on most levels as way to avoid/minimize the slog. Also, if armor is used it should appear within about the first 1/3rd of a level. Why?

 

Here are two different armor placement scenarios:

A: armor is introduced in the first 1/3rd of the level before the player takes much damage. Now the armor allows the player to get through the second 1/3rd of level easily, but runs out of armor for the last 1/3rd and finds the finale, without armor, more challenging than the rest of the level. When the player finished they might have something like 50% health, 0% armor. They've burnt through it making the end of the level feel high-stakes.

 

B: armor is introduced in the final 1/3rd of the level. The first 2/3rds of the level are now difficult and the player takes more damage. When the player finally does reach the armor they may have so little health left that the armor doesn't protect them from enemy hits. Now the ending is just as challenging as the rest of the level, and the armor wasn't very useful, which is frustrating. Now when the player finishes the level they might have something like: 15% health, 80% armor.

 

TL;DR: armor functions like an in-game difficulty curve; Enchanted: Easy, Silver: Medium, None: Hard. When the armor runs out the level gets hard.

 

Anyways great stuff, I'm looking forward to playing some new ones!

[Egregor]

Some screen-shots:

Spoiler

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Egregor

[TheHambourgeois]

What version are you running? Mine throws the default sky up but I am also using the software renderer. I am planning on making a custom sky when I get some time.

I'm also open to criticisms. I definitely want e1m1 to feel resource starved, I may throw a sigil of power in the big amphitheater/execution site looking area to speed up the beginning. I also am very self aware that I am bad at 2 things in particular: placing secrets and giving out powerups/artifacts, so I will take that under advisement, particularly on the time bombs.

[Egregor]

I was running Condemned v.03 in Gzdoom 4-7-1 w/ wtome. I find gzdoom 4-8-2 has a start-up bug in Heretic that makes it so you have to press esc before you can do anything, which was irritating for testing so I put it back to 4-7-1.

 

Secrets can be tricky to implimemt, they often feel either too obvious (phoenix rod in your E1M2) or too hidden. I often put secrets in areas that appear to be for decor only, but that players can jump to, like  window ledges, etc. Slight lighting changes or out-of-place textures are good indicators. Walkover lines with lowering lift secrets out of view also work really well.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Egregor

[TheHambourgeois]

As I have stated in other threads, I have kind of hit a wall on mapping for this, and I decided it's because the E1M4 I'm making just isn't good, so it's going on the cutting room floor. Here it is if people are curious, you can also see the new skybox in action. I've also made changes to the earlier maps based on feedback, though they won't be republished until I get the regular levels (e1m4, e1m6, and e1m7) done.

 

outpost_reject.zip

[Shanoa]

1 hour ago, TheHambourgeois said:

As I have stated in other threads, I have kind of hit a wall on mapping for this, and I decided it's because the E1M4 I'm making just isn't good, so it's going on the cutting room floor. Here it is if people are curious, you can also see the new skybox in action. I've also made changes to the earlier maps based on feedback, though they won't be republished until I get the regular levels (e1m4, e1m6, and e1m7) done.

 

outpost_reject.zip

It's cool to see you've released it in some shape of form! Also gonna be playing this episode, bring on the Heretic goodness.

[revlis]

Always nice to see some good Heretic content! Enjoyed the first three maps very much. The "rejected" one is a bit more slaughter-y than I expected.

[TheHambourgeois]

7 minutes ago, revlis said:

Always nice to see some good Heretic content! Enjoyed the first three maps very much. The "rejected" one is a bit more slaughter-y than I expected.

 The rejected one was rejected precisely for that reason. I don't feel like it played well, the newer version is coming along but the buildings housing the ophidians and the sabreclaw/weredragons are going to be built up more so they are more different parts of the level rather than glorified monster closets.

 

Old:

New:

[TheHambourgeois]

NEW VERSION:

 

condemnedv0_7.zip

 

All regular levels and music are present, still need to implement the secret level, as well as difficulty levels beyond preliminary stuff and any co-op support.

 

I am looking for feedback on the following areas, which I am least happy with:

-E1M3 final room

-E1M4 in general

-E1M6 crypt area and final room

-E1M7 in general

-How is the artifact usage?

 

And I am happy with this but I am curious how people feel about the music?

 

Screenies:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by TheHambourgeois

[Egregor]

I just downloaded 0.7 and played level e1m4 and I have to say it's my favorite level from you (so far) I haven't gotten any further.

 

-sectors 14, 17, 18, 19, 23, 24 and 125, 131 (all highest points) you can see the top of the sky tile-ing IE a blue horizon bellow the mountain sky can be seen. This can be solved by adjusting the height of the ENTIRE LEVEL down bellow that horizon. Hypothetically a taller sky texture could be added to solve this problem as well.

 

That was the only issue I found. Other than that the level played GREAT! That central arena is a ton of fun! I like how much re-use it gets. The western intro is great. I was able to get the Tomb of Power but didn't figure out how to access the alternative exit. I like how that dead end just NE of the YK made enemies pool in strange ways and caused some unpredictability. The caves in the SE and the water temple in the NE felt a bit dark but the Hell Staff seeking made them okay. Overall it was very-hard. You probably don't really need to balance hard any further but if you wanted to make it a tad less frustrating maybe add 20-50 more health. Great use of enemy swarms!

 

Looking at the level in the editor, you left the prettiest part out; the exterior around the NE GK area. Maybe work in an exterior perimeter path into the level somehow?

I also think the imp tower could be repurposed into a secret area as well. Maybe add an entrance is on the N side?

 

The ending battle felt a bit underwhelming, and it ended unexpectedly for me. Maybe some statues or markers at the cave would visually indicate an exit? or like pillars with the sparkles coming out of them maybe? Or allow the player to travel further into the darkness of the cave (reaching full black) before exiting.

 

Great level!

[TheHambourgeois]

thanks for the feedback! look forward to hearing more. the secret exit hasn't even been implemented yet iirc. Also, yes, i will probably beef up the last encounter, at the time i was wrapping up that map I was on my second take of it and ready to move on, so the end is, probably noticeably, unpolished.

 

re: the blue part of the sky, that is a horizon line with a water flat, i see that it looks pretty awkward so I may build up a little cove around the visible area so it looks a bit more natural (that would also facilitate exploration of the area around the ophidian house)

Edited December 28, 2022 by TheHambourgeois

[Egregor]

E1M6: another great level! I got all kills + items, about half the secrets. I really like the fire and ice split temple theme you got going here. The combat here is all really good. I found that it took me a time or 3 to unravel each encounter, which is interesting! The crypt area being a good example of this. The loops with the lifts at the end are cool progression ideas. The time elapsed maulotaur area was awesome! Same with the melting ice trick! I will say that for the end battle I retreated to the southern courtyard and picked off the wizards and gargoyles, but even that was tricky. Again, health felt very tight and difficulty felt pretty unforgiving. Id recommend adding about 40-75 health, unless you want to keep UV at maximum challenge. The only issue I had is it took me longer than I'd like to admit to find the triple key door, until I got frustrated and started "wall humping" and was like "of course". Same with the ending stairs, I thought the sparkles were like ending indicator markers, not literal portals, so I was looking around for the exit door, and then again, I was like "of course". It took me a minute to figure out, but I think they are both fine.

[TheHambourgeois]

I might try to make the 3 key door more obvious, I actually originally had the 3 key door leading to the ending arena and the whole maulotaur area was going to be a weird secret, but since it's the most obvious way to get the Lightbringer I wanted it to be for sure part of the progression. Anyway, there was way more room for the key pedestals by those doors vs the wall, I might replace it with an actual door texture/frame but I do want this level to feel weird and cryptic.

Also I am glad to take notes on the difficulty, I am frankly not the best doomer so I try to balance the levels so they completely kick my ass despite mapper knowledge, which may be overtweaking it a bit.

 

e: also made another sky for e1m4 so the ocean doesn't look awkward running into... the base of some mountains

Spoiler

 
^prolly build out a little rock wall here too tbh

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by TheHambourgeois
didn't want to double post

[Egregor]

3 hours ago, TheHambourgeois said:

Also I am glad to take notes on the difficulty, I am frankly not the best doomer so I try to balance the levels so they completely kick my ass despite mapper knowledge, which may be overtweaking it a bit. 

 

Difficulty can be a tricky needle to thread. As a mapper no one knows your levels better than you. If it is difficult for you then it will be more difficult for someone who is not familiar with the layout. I found it took me around 3 tries/deaths to get through each area, each time trying a different approach.

 

One question I usually ask is if there is "mandatory damage" like is the chaos so high that I'll probably have to take a few hits, and if the answer is yes then I make sure to include health during (or before w QF). For more simplistic battles where damage is completely avoidable I believe it is a good challenge to include little to no health. Finding cover/safe spot can be just as important as health.

[Egregor]

I just played (and beat) Cabal. What a rush!

 

Structurally, the map was fantastic! There is a lot of great thematic elements! The dark void quarter of the elemental final room was incredible! I was never able to get the phoenix rod so that probably made the entire level a whole notch harder for me. I like your vision for enhancing classic Heretic. These really feel like classic levels if they just had a better use of colors and a better sense of aesthetic. The floor details (cracks, liquids, and symbols) were a nice way to add detail while keeping the maps feeling minimalist. The flow of the level was interesting. Good use of space, using both the interior and exterior of the temple.

 

The game-play was a lot of fun, but it was extremely hard. It took me like 25 tries to beat the final ending. There is a projectile that auto-kills every time. It's unclear to me what it is. I know the fire stack is from the Iron Lich can do this but it was just a single fireball. Overall I probably died 50 times on that level! Also, that was on my 2nd attempt. When I attempted the level this morning I was 20 deaths and 45 minutes in, and I had to leave it. The snake pit battle was a lot of fun! I liked the 3 key battles. The pentagram lava pit room was just brutal. I probably died like 15 times in this room alone. The final battle was impressive.

 

I feel like the game-play is informed by games like Dark Souls, where the challenge is supposed to be extreme. I like a good challenge, but this was trying my patience. Sometimes a level can be too hard and it beats you. The resurrecting ghosts in the key hall felt harsh, but they did keep me in the key room battles, so they worked. The out of sight/out of reach golem and knight snipers in the final battle felt "unfair" or sadistic. Same with the resurrecting ghosts in the pentagram lava pit room. I get that the idea is there will always be a threat from some angle, and it makes that room tense even after defeating all of the liches. Maybe there is a way to kill them but I wasn't able to.

 

Overall for Condemned the challenge feels like it was harder than I was prepared for. I'm not great at Heretic, but I am pretty good, and I eventually DID beat Cabal, but it felt too brutal, and I could see the casual Doomer walking away from the map-set without beating it because the challenge was just to great. Now, with that said, a little bit of health would probably go a long way toward making some of these challenges a lot more level, and make this set more accessible for casual games.

 

I'd also encourage you to use the Easy=Enchanted Shield / Medium=Silver Shield / Hard = No Shield quick formula for balancing your levels. It wont work all the time, especially if you've already balanced around Enchanted or Silver, but when implemented properly it can work really well. A good place to add this trick is right near the start of a level. Also balancing groups of enemies for medium/easy. If hard has say 8 snakes. make medium have 6 and easy have 4. or 8/6/4. If hard has 6 snakes make it 6/5/4. With 10 its 10/8/6. So medium has 85%-75% and easy has like 50%-70% of enemies that hard has. Hope those ideas help!

[TheHambourgeois]

4 hours ago, Egregor said:

I just played (and beat) Cabal. What a rush!...

 

Thanks for both the positive and constructive feedback. The positive feedback is frankly, music to my ears, because it indicates that I accomplished most of what I wanted with this level set (retro, minimalist feel with a focus on aesthetics and environmental storytelling, didn't want the zdoom features sticking out like a sore thumb).

Re: the constructive feedback about Cabal in particular: full disclosure most of this is a result of Cabal being the least playtested level of them all because I was eager to get this public release out. I will very likely massively tone down both the final arena and the pentagram room. I am actually kind of explicitly not a fan of souls-like difficulty for the very same critique you gave: I think it generally gets to a point of tedium. To that end, given the feedback I am intending to make the following changes:

1. Probably halve the number of the self-reviving undead warriors in the pentagram room and/or add a couple shadowspheres to the level. Probably tone down the number of disciples in there too.
2. Move the sniper platforms in the final area closer to the arena, raise the floors on them, and maybe remove one or two outright.
3. Add some health and a 2nd armor source somewhere in the final arena.

 

I think the culprit of the one-shot lich projectile is that the fireball is a direct copy, properties wise, of the ice-ball with only the following changes

• The death frame calls A_Explosion with no values passed (which is earnestly probably a mistake, I see that the phoenix rod has a 128 damage and radius explosion, I will probably pass 64 for both for the fireball in the final release)
• The secondary projectiles do not fall.

Finally, for the phoenix rod: the little models of the gardens give you a hint.

 

Thanks for all your feedback on this in general! I appreciate that someone took the time to play through the silly Elf levels I made and mostly enjoyed it.

[TheHambourgeois]

Necro-ing this thread for an update: I have been intensely busy with a union related campaign for most of the early part of 2023. We are holding a vote for what I have been working on tomorrow morning, then I have vacation the week after next, so after the start of May I will probably have free time again which I will use to try to finish this up.

[TheHambourgeois]

BUMP, BIG UPDATE BABY!!!!

[Egregor]

Looking forward to giving this another run! I should be able to record it with commentary this time, too!

[Not Jabba]

Hey, I played this a week or two ago and kept forgetting to post about it, but just wanted to let you know I had a lot of fun with it. I love the techbase map with the pod/conveyor/custom monster gimmickry and the colored crystal as power gems. Revisiting the village map in solitude with the new graves and stuff was a nice touch. Props also for highlighting the non-Tomed Lightbringer in the last map, as it's a very fun weapon in the right circumstances. I could definitely see the quality of the maps improving with each new one (you made M9 last, right?), and it's very promising for what you'll be able to make in the future.

 

If I have one complaint, it's that I kept dying in the final fight without having any idea what hit me. I think there's a projectile flying around in that arena that's very hard to see, some kind of heat-seeking attack?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Not Jabba

[TheHambourgeois]

40 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

If I have one complaint, it's that I kept dying in the final fight without having any idea what hit me. I think there's a projectile flying around in that arena that's very hard to see, some kind of heat-seeking attack?

 

Yes, instead of the whirlwind the final bosses have a tracking ripper projectile. I can see about their duration cause I suspect they may be stacking up and hitting you all at once. I can also see about making them more visible.

 

And yes, I basically made them in map order, with M9 being made like 8 months after the rest. Thanks for the feedback, glad it was enjoyed!

[Not Jabba]

20 minutes ago, TheHambourgeois said:

I can see about their duration cause I suspect they may be stacking up and hitting you all at once.

Either that, or it could be the ripper effect. They'll do damage every tic, I think, so if they're relatively slow and they hit you right (e.g., you're moving with them instead of against them or they go through you on a diagonal because the hitbox is square), then they can probably one-shot you even with low damage per tic.

[TheHambourgeois]

I did do some playtesting on that but it was always against a single one until I did my final playthrough before this update. They were damaging but not fatal in my experience. Never got hit by them in the playthrough. Anyway, I will look into it for RC1.