Visual cutscenes or Text screens?

[Sonikkumania]

Considering you're an author of a mapset / megawad / TC that's more or less story driven, how do you prefer to carry on said story?

I know Doom isn't the game that's usually very story driven but sometimes you want to add some depth to the gameplay, just for the sake of it.

With scripting it's possible to create visual cutscenes with dialogue added, hell you can even record your own dialogue and use it with these cutscenes.

 

I myself though prefer to use text lumps because I want the players to use their imagination like Id intended with their own story screens.

I can see the benefit of using a simpe cutscene in some scenarios, for example a quick zoom out from Boss monster to the player.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Both. Show a moving image with text displayed over it. Still leaves enough to the imagination while adding to the overall atmosphere and setting.

[Sonikkumania]

1 minute ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Both. Show a moving image with text displayed over it. Still leaves enough to the imagination while adding to the overall atmosphere and setting.

Seems legit.

[RHhe82]

From a player perspective, I prefer text lumps and storytelling by map design. Take Mouldy's duplet, Going Down & Overboard. They achieve everything by map design (even if Going Down has text screens, but I don't think they really contribute to the 'story'). Granted, probably not very deep and layered stories there as far as I can see, but still.

 

The few cutscenes I've seen used in Doom have been tacky, to put it nicely. They make the whole experience feel cheap and amateurish, and they always leave me wondering why the mappers chose Doom as their platform when their ambition clearrly stems from totally other games. (Of course, my experience here is very limited; maybe there are some successfui attempt I just haven't seen).

Edited October 1, 2022 by RHhe82

[yakfak]

write a long txt file full of doomguy erotica called "readme.1st" and bundle <3

yet to see a really well directed gzdoom cutscene, they're mostly perfunctory or meme-y (though show me examples of good ones if they're out there!)

[Thelokk]

Atmospheric storytelling. Think Jade Earth - not a single line of text or cutscene, yet you get to the end and the 'story' makes complete sense.

 

I'm not a fan of info-driven storytelling in Doom simply because, should you want to make a story driven shooter, there are far better options out there. To me, either you go full tc, or you stick to Doom's strenghts, which do not include storytelling.

[yakfak]

don't know, I love well-written story stuff, I like well used intermission text and I wanna do branching-path level sets with a story screen between each short map with emapinfo or dsda-doom or something... a lot of the big exalted megawads are really bad at using them and maybe that makes people think they can't be used. like going down's just got cute jokes, sunlust's are basically "who cares lol", valiant changes the episode stuff up completely and i can't remember if the text is significant, btsx's are fun freakouts, old megawads leave them unchanged, etc. bet it's possible to do satisfying intertext without sacrificially saying they're not really part of doom

[Sonikkumania]

What do you guys think about intentionally using vanilla text screens? It might seem corny in most cases but I accidentally noticed during mapping that the first screen for Doom 2 suits the mod.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

48 minutes ago, Sonikkumania said:

What do you guys think about intentionally using vanilla text screens? It might seem corny in most cases but I accidentally noticed during mapping that the first screen for Doom 2 suits the mod.

Even if it fits, the first thing that is likely going to come to the player's mind is "why didn't they take the time to replace the intermission text?". They aren't going to realize you did it intentionally, so the effect will be lost on them. Even if it fits, I'd rather have a custom text screen, even if it essentially tells the same story as the vanilla text.

[Devalaous]

Neither, let the map, or the maps if multiple maps, tell the story on its own. I even disable the intermission texts entirely in my custom patches.

[staros96]

Difficult one. I can see what @Devalaous above me is saying, and I'd probably be inclined to go one step further and say that a wall of text/cut scene should *not* replace the map in terms of telling a story. I want to walk through an ancient fortress, or a computer lab, or a warehouse and know that I'm there. Hence why E1M1 was so-o legendary, IMO. 

But as a beginner to maps and just going through my own design, I find that I am drawn to adding to a broader story (even if as generic as, hey, you're a dude alone in a library, with an outbreak of undead soldiers), but I'd probably implement this via text because it feels truly 'Doom' to me. I'm a fan of classic all the way. 

 

I guess that's a 'no' to cutscenes from me. 

[Wyrmwood]

I find well written text to be more immersive. Just finished Revolution and the texts really helped explain the level designs and definitely increased my enjoyment of the wad. I mean written text has the best effects of all, imagination.

 

With that said I always enjoy SNES style pixel art cut-scenes, like the opening of Another World but unless your very talented, well written dialogs got to be better than amateurish cut-scenes. 

[brick]

I'm also on the side of atmospheric storytelling - I agree with Thelokk that Jade Earth does this extremely well. More recently The Thing You Can't Defeat wowed me with what it did with this concept and the theme it tried to push with it. I'm not a huge fan of cutscenes a la Assault On Tei Tenga, I don't hate them but if they're unskippable it'll often be a point against wanting to replay (this isn't just with wads, I also have a harder time convincing myself to replay games with unskippable cutscenes in general). I like the hybrid approach Sign of Torment took, it enhances the visual storytelling with messages scrawled on the floor, it's a clever way to add text without giving away too much and without breaking gameplay, and in the context of the wad's story it's very fitting. MAP30 from TNT2: Devilution also combines atmosphere and visual storytelling with messages on wall computers, and it works great there too.

Edited October 3, 2022 by brick

[DannyMan]

I find text screens necessary for context 

[Kappes Buur]

Neither.

To tell what the map/mod is all about can be told in an accompanying text file.

Some mappers even take the time to make an elaborate pdf file.

 

Take for example TeiTenga. Staring for one minute and a half of text after text is precious playtime lost, and that every time the pwad is started. Thank god for map editors to delete the leadin.

 

Another annoying think about print text, the text is so small on greater resolutions that one needs a magnifier to read it.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Kappes Buur

[holaareola]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:02 AM, RHhe82 said:

From a player perspective, I prefer text lumps and storytelling by map design. Take Mouldy's duplet, Going Down & Overboard. They achieve everything by map design (even if Going Down has text screens, but I don't think they really contribute to the 'story'). Granted, probably not very deep and layered stories there as far as I can see, but still.

Doomguy's two level fight back upstairs in GD to get better phone reception to call his mum is perfect use of the secret level intermissions!

[Solmyr]

I like text screens better than cutscenes, as they are short and simplistic, specially if you go by vanilla limitations, it forces you to be as brief as possible while also letting environmental storytelling from the previous maps to help shaping up the story, and let what's left to be filled in by the player's imagination. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Solmyr

[Tetzlaff]

What about comic panels?

[Drywtler]

20 minutes ago, Tetzlaff said:

What about comic panels?

JPCP MAP08 does that within the map itself

[TheHambourgeois]

Condemned, the Heretic levelset I am working on, is intended to be a narrative mapset. I am going to have 2 or 3 text interludes and leave the rest up to map design.