0%ing Doom: Is It Possible?

[invalidlain]

I was playing Doom 1 and I decided to see if I could get a 0% score tally at the end of the map I was on (E1M1) and saw that I could if I managed to be quick enough to prevent any enemies from killing each other, yet careful enough to not pick up any items. Do you guys think it'd be possible to 0% the entirety of Doom, or just on maps with so much stuff on the map that even collecting one item would still amount to 0%?

[Shepardus]

You'd be screwed by E2M8 and E3M8, or at least you would be unless you remember that in the vanilla game those levels don't display a score tally and instead skip straight to the story screen. Does it still count as 0% if there's no intermission screen to tell you otherwise?

[invalidlain]

26 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

You'd be screwed by E2M8 and E3M8, or at least you would be unless you remember that in the vanilla game those levels don't display a score tally and instead skip straight to the story screen. Does it still count as 0% if there's no intermission screen to tell you otherwise?

Honestly, I'm not really sure how story screens would factor into this, I think really the only way around them would be to simply not count those maps if you're vanilla-ing it.

[Edward850]

41 minutes ago, invalidlain said:

Honestly, I'm not really sure how story screens would factor into this, I think really the only way around them would be to simply not count those maps if you're vanilla-ing it.

Then you still have a problem with E4M6 and MAP30. E4M6 would be technically possible to do (though incredibly hard to setup) if you did it in co-op however as the co-op telly screen does not count all enemy deaths, just the player kills individually.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Edward850

[brick]

MAP30 should be fine, IIRC Romero's head doesn't count as a kill, and it should be possible with some luck (depending on the spawns) to be quick enough that nothing dies. If you're going by tally screen then you can assume killing the bosses in ExM8 is fine, otherwise all 4 maps are a problem. Even then, E4M6 will definitely be the first problem since there's no way to end it with that 0% kills, and the next one for sure will be MAP07 for the same reason. I'm trying to remember if any of the id maps force you to pick up an item or step into a secret, but I think they're all safe. This sounds like an actually fun challenge, especially since you have to avoid using a lot of very handy tools (Berserk, all the healing sphere, all armour bonuses, Invulnerability...)

[Lila Feuer]

"I am the best worst player."

[Sonikkumania]

What about spawn room of Doom2 MAP21? You're literally surrounded by blue health pickups.

[Sena]

Doing a pacifist run (i.e. not killing anything yourself) is possible for most, but not all of Doom's maps. Going for an actual 0% run, making sure that none of the monsters manage to infight, would likely be impossible for pretty much all of them. But you're welcome to try, E1M1 is probably doable since it's only about 10 seconds long, although I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be the only one that's realistically doable.

[SuyaSSS]

It is possible to 0% entryway although it took a lot of restarts as the imp kept killing the zombiemen. No way it will be possible to 0% the whole game as the easiest level took me a few minutes and Nirvana is a thing.

Edited October 3, 2022 by SuyaSS

[Captain Keen]

29 minutes ago, Sena said:

Doing a pacifist run (i.e. not killing anything yourself) is possible for most, but not all of Doom's maps.

 
I doubt 0 percent is possible because of enemy infighting in the bigger maps, but I saw a playthrough from a guy on YouTube who did Doom 1 episodes 1-3 entirely pacifist. E2M8 was the hardest, he needed to trap the Cybie and get a lost soul to kill him. But it was enemy infighting that made it possible, esp for the bosses.

 

I don’t think you could do it with Doom 2 (or even Episode 4) but nonetheless it was amazing to think it was even possible with the original three eps.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

The medkits at end of levels suddenly become a problem, I imagine. 

 

And infighting. 

 

What would we call it? UV-MIN? 

[invalidlain]

6 minutes ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

What would we call it? UV-MIN? 

I think UV-MIN is a fun name.

[Deadwing]

23 minutes ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

The medkits at end of levels suddenly become a problem, I imagine. 

 

And infighting. 

 

What would we call it? UV-MIN? 

 

Medkits aren't countable items, so that would be ok, but in-fighting would be a huge a problem.

The closest we have for this category is pacifist run, I guess 

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

1 hour ago, Deadwing said:

 

Medkits aren't countable items, so that would be ok, but in-fighting would be a huge a problem.

The closest we have for this category is pacifist run, I guess 

Oh, right. I keep forgetting what is and isn't counted. In that case, it's just the infighting. I don't know whether there are some forced pickups 

[Asure]

This a funny coincidence, but I also came up with this idea a few days ago. Although I didn't create this topic, because I thought people would think it's a stupid idea, but it seems that isn't the case.

 

I agree with UV-Min being a fun challenge, although episode/all runs would be hell if anyone wants to try that.

 

9 hours ago, brick said:

MAP30 should be fine, IIRC Romero's head doesn't count as a kill, and it should be possible with some luck (depending on the spawns) to be quick enough that nothing dies.

The single revenant on that map says hello, good luck sparing him when the IoS dies with the explosions.

[Rudolph]

10 hours ago, Shepardus said:

You'd be screwed by E2M8 and E3M8, or at least you would be unless you remember that in the vanilla game those levels don't display a score tally and instead skip straight to the story screen. Does it still count as 0% if there's no intermission screen to tell you otherwise?

What about E1M8? Does it not require you to kill the Barons of Hell in order to get to the exit teleporter?

[Andromeda]

25 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

What about E1M8? Does it not require you to kill the Barons of Hell in order to get to the exit teleporter?

Not anymore ever since the void glide and the intentional all-ghosts effect were found.

[Rudolph]

 

[invalidlain]

2 hours ago, Maya said:

This a funny coincidence, but I also came up with this idea a few days ago. Although I didn't create this topic, because I thought people would think it's a stupid idea, but it seems that isn't the case.

I actually had this idea as soon as maybe March, but I wasn't sure how the idea would be received. I was talking it over with my girlfriend and she said "I think that's kinda dumb," so I held back on the idea until last night when I posted about it.

[Billa]

Going to handwave away the kills as "maybe a TAS could perfectly manipulate everything" - took a quick look at Doom 2 and here are the maps I couldn't beat NoMo with 0% items and secrets.

 

Can't grab the blue key in 04 without grabbing one of the armour bonuses surrounding it. Same goes for the red key and the various bonuses in that room.

09 has a line of health bonuses after the blue key switch that you can jump over on the way in using the lift - don't think you can avoid them on the way out...

17 has some unskippable bonuses too, especially at the end.

In 19 the red key is a secret?? but you can't exit without it. 

In 21 you spawn right on top of health bonuses, it's over.

22 you either kill the pinky or you grab a secret, there's no handwaving here.

26 you can't avoid the row of health bonuses in the corridor in front of the exit, even with a .00000 trick

 

Everything other map should be possible with the routes used in the current UV-speed demos (except for old school rocket jump on 07, and matt's TAS rocket jump in 29)

[Gosu_Noob]

So it seems there are several maps that would be completely impossible based on location of items/keys/pickups relative to doomguy.

 

Beyond that if you want true 0% that means no monsters died from infighting.

 

For Doom 2, map 2 immediately presents a problem. It took nearly 30 years to just pacifist that map, and that was with massive infighting.

Doing it without any monsters killing each other is flat out impossible, and would likely take more than several attempts even with idclip due to the final room.

[4shockblast]

For kills, this category is called Lemmings, in general, it would probably be low% or something since that matches other games. Most fast p1m1 runs are indeed 0% kills, Doom 2 map 1 is also trivial this way. Outside of TAS RNG manip, there's little you can do that's within your control to actually get lower kill%, and I'm not sure even a TAS could reasonably get 0% kills at the end of each map. Even for something like map 2, though, I think there's a decent chance? But it's certainly not a run I would ever want to do. :^)

 

Pacifist came up earlier, but I should correct that every single IWAD map is possible pacifist, not just most. Doing them all without TAS in a row is not feasible, but the vast majority have been done non-TAS as single maps (the sole exception is Doom 2 map 30). It would be difficult to have any sense of what the best run is for the category, since anytime someone gets lucky and gets fewer kills on some map, they will immediately get the record I guess. As such, it probably wouldn't make sense to host such runs on DSDA, heh.

[tatsu91]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:23 PM, brick said:

MAP30 should be fine, IIRC Romero's head doesn't count as a kill, and it should be possible with some luck (depending on the spawns) to be quick enough that nothing dies. If you're going by tally screen then you can assume killing the bosses in ExM8 is fine, otherwise all 4 maps are a problem. Even then, E4M6 will definitely be the first problem since there's no way to end it with that 0% kills, and the next one for sure will be MAP07 for the same reason. I'm trying to remember if any of the id maps force you to pick up an item or step into a secret, but I think they're all safe. This sounds like an actually fun challenge, especially since you have to avoid using a lot of very handy tools (Berserk, all the healing sphere, all armour bonuses, Invulnerability...)

Depends are you following pacifist rules for this too? If so it could in theory be possible but the luck required is nigh impossible.

[aika]

I gave it a try and interestingly, it looks like 0% Icon of Sin is not possible on UV difficulty, because the explosions will kill the revenant when the icon dies. On HMP 0% kills is pretty easy if you can kill the icon quickly.

[pcorf]

It is near impossible. You need to somehow hurt the monsters so they don't fight each other and at the same time avoid their attacks. The only way you can do it is by cheating press ~` an type -notarget in zdoom, that spoils the fun. I spose that is why pacifist was introduced, get through a map without shooting (apart from shooting switches)

[TheSlipgateStudios]

Let's ask Zero Master if he can pull this off. If he can't, then no one can.

[aika]

I looked at the first episode of Doom I on nomonsters and looks like it's definitely impossible, there's mandatory pickups at least on e1m3 and e1m4

Edited October 9, 2022 by aika

[Yousuf Anik]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:02 PM, invalidlain said:

I think UV-MIN is a fun name.

Maybe UV-Zero ?

[Quill]

MAP01 seems to be a cakewalk. E1M1 isn't.

[Cammy]

The idea piqued my interest, so I decided to give it a go in Plutonia. I played without monsters for simplicity's sake - any maps not mentioned are beatable without much issue.

 

- MAP05: Lots of unavoidable health bonuses on staircases in this map. 39% items was the lowest I could get.

- MAP08: Ditto, but this time the health bonuses are in really tiny hallways instead, plus a handful of armor bonuses on a dropoff which you can't avoid landing on, as best as I can tell.

- MAP11: The spiral staircase you have to climb at the end has 15 health bonuses on it, and each individual step is so small that it doesn't seem to be possible to avoid picking them up. You can skip the two on the lowest two steps, but the others are required maybe outside of some gamer god precision platforming. Ouch.

- MAP12: The teleporter after the yellow key warps you behind three armor bonuses and you can't get out without picking up at least two of them.

- MAP15: There's a 4x4 square of bonuses basically right in the center of this map which you need to grab 5 of: 2 each on the west and east sides, and 1 on the north side since you have more room to approach that one from the side. Since you enter from the south side and don't need to go back, you can just jump over the south side ones.

- MAP31: It doesn't seem to be possible to avoid picking up the berserk pack in the chaingunner room, it's too close to a switch you have to press.

- MAP32: All the keys are required to beat the map, but the yellow key is stacked on top of a megasphere and the red key is lying in the only unavoidable secret sector in all of Plutonia.

- MAP20: After you get the blue key you're unavoidably teleported onto a berserk pack.

- MAP21: Possible, but seems to become impossible if you're not quick enough. Once you hit the switch to raise the catwalks that give you access to the red key, you need to go through the teleporter and across the catwalk while it's still rising; halfway through, you'll run across the bridge that leads to the exit. If you're slow, the catwalk will raise higher than the exit bridge and the only way to cross the gap will be by jumping across a narrow metal pillar with a megasphere that I don't think you can avoid picking up.

- MAP23: There are three unavoidable health bonuses in the hallway leading to the red switch.

- MAP24: Eight unavoidable health bonuses on the first room's platforming pillars, and an unavoidable soul sphere at the foot of the staircase that leads to the blue key.

- MAP25: Unavoidable berserk at the top of the flesh stairs.

- MAP28: Unavoidable soul sphere behind the red door, too close to a switch.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Cammy