Post Tips for new creators *here*

[EPICALLL]

This thread is for any new players to the Doom Mapping community.
Anybody care to post some advice for new mappers?
Here's your chance.
Post Away!

[Doomkid]

Hey there, for future reference, such a thread would be more suiting to the Editing subforum. I've moved it accordingly!

[phoo]

I've linked this video before, it has some helpful advice for new mappers :)
 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by phoo

[EPICALLL]

3 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Hey there, for future reference, such a thread would be more suiting to the Editing subforum. I've moved it accordingly!

Completely missed that section :P
Now I know.

[Naarok0fkor]

linedef action 181...

[fai1025]

There's some common mistake i found from those My First Map^TM post

So I put them into tips

• never apply those tech-door texture to a door smaller or shorter than the texture's size
• never leave a room in full bright
• no acute angles
• do not put enemy in a square formation
• never use long arse hallway to connect rooms, especially those thinner than 128mu
• Border texture, BORDER TEXTURE, BORDER TEXTURE!!!!!
• never start with UDMF when making first ever map, trust me, you'll just confuse yourself
• never make your map with only one or two textures, and certainly never make the next map look too similar to the last, theme can stay but context need to be different
• do not just put your keys in a random place, put them on a stick or something and follow it with an ambush when collected
• Don't stuff your map with unnecessary amounts of resources, and of course never put non
• Escapable pit is appreciated 

and more

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by fai1025

[Nefelibeta]

1 hour ago, phoo said:

I've linked this video before, it has some helpful advice for new mappers :)
 

 

To design a good map, DO NOT try to follow other people's design rules. ;)

[phoo]

8 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

To design a good map, DO NOT try to follow other people's design rules. ;)

Fair enough, I tend to treat most rules I come across as suggestions. Breaking common conventions can tend to make things interesting too.

Edited October 5, 2022 by phoo

[DMPhobos]

I only have one piece of advice for anyone interested in mapping

 

Always try to make the sort of map that you have fun playing

 

As for everything else, go nuts and most importantly have fun

[IcarusOfDaggers]

Spoiler

I started from UDMF, because it is far more logical and easier to understand. However, this only works, if you start from simple and small map designs. 

General tips:

• Google is your best friend.
• Youtube is even better friend (Links to follow when I get home)
• First maps take time, as you learn your map editor and later, accompanying tools. So, expect it to take about 3-4 months and multiple dead ends before you have your map ready for release.
• Focus on the map design, but test the combat as often as the map itself. Especially doors, walls and ambushes.
• If you change floor/ceiling texture, change their height as well.
• Make sure the map feels like a place.
• Don't be afraid to have multiple levels in the works, but focus on one.
• Have time for rest and for real life. This is a creative hobby, and real life can give a lot of ideas for creative hobbys.
• Always improve on first release, before moving on to next project.
• Always test your maps multiple times.
• Always ask someone else to playtest your map when needed and before release.

Map design proccess:

• Start small.
• Regular shapes usually stifle creativity, try irregular shapes.
• Changing wall texture? Use support 3 or support 2 textures, or any other fitting texture to blend together different environments. Use pillars, corners, even doors, doortracks or windows.
• Changing textures should be accompanied by light level changes in some cases. It helps, especially when going from technology base to a basement or cavern.
• Fun fact: It's better to have too much ammo and health and tone it down, than not having enough
• Think of each room as an area to be in. That way, you'll come up with more interesting ways to design the rooms and fights.
• You always need to find your own way of developing a level and overcoming challenges that arise. Read the threads like this one, but don't get bummed if advice or information given here does not work for you. Every person has his own style, it takes time to discover it.
• Changing light levels can make or break a map, even make or break a fight and which monsters you can use.
• Use different types of height variations.

Monsters and environment:

• When you first place monsters, think of them as place holders. If they fit, keep em. If they don't, swap em or remove some until they do.
• Make sure to detail the maps. Details like pillars, beds, computer consoles, tables etc can provide cover from some attacks.
• Chaingunners are good at punishing bad positioning. They also work as snipers or infighting godmachines.
• Pinkies and spectres are good at cornering the player, especially in large areas.
• Multiple pathways for monsters makes the fights more interesting.
• Arch Vile is versatile attention seeker. So is pain elemental.
• Lost souls are great for silent ambushes. And also good at being annoying or punishing player for wrong use of rockets.
• Revenants are awesome for jump scares, so are hell knights and barons.
• The most versatile enemies are zombieman (former human), imps, revenants, hell knights. So those are also the most common enemies used.
• Shotgunners (Former Sergeant) are deadly, especially at close range.
• Arachnotrons and mancubi are good for blocking path ways and infighting.
• Cacodemons make for excellent ambushes from above or below players positions.

Useful links:

 

Playtester threads:

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by IcarusOfDaggers

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Don't focus on trying to imitate popular wads. You don't need to create Scythe Tribute 479 or Plutonia Over 9000. Play those wads to get ideas and to gain a better understanding of fundamentals like enemy placement, balance, etc. Use those ideas to make something that is yours. A wad can be great on a fundamental level, but at the same time ruined due to a lack of identity and passion. Making a wad is both an art and a science.

[Sectorslayer]

Don’t plan on making a megawad. Practice  mapping and join community projects instead. 

[mrthejoshmon]

As said here (and many a time before), 32 maps doesn't seem like a huge undertaking at first but usually about half way through it definitely does start taking its toll.

 

Focus on one map at a time, I made 17 maps that went to waste in one unfinished megawad which could've been 17 single wads. The feedback received on an individual map release is more valuable than multiple at once as it allows for more specific comments and improvements. After you've got a few in your retinue you can then turn it into a megawad.

 

It is also advisable to avoid custom content at first; new textures, weapons and enemies can serve you well later but will bog you down in the early days. It is also advisable to start simple with Doom or even maybe Boom formats over Hexen or UDMF formats.

 

Boom mapping is slightly different to Doom mapping but ZDoom (Hexen/UDMF) mapping is it's own beast and you should slay it later on, go level up first.

[Sonikkumania]

Resources from Realm667 might look intriguing, but don't stack too much custom content in your wad. It's just corny when you have a huge mass of random enemies and guns for one / few maps.

[whybmonotacrab]

Your favourite mapper sucked once too, so don't compare your early stuff to their magnum opus. That's a really easy way to get disheartened and burnout.

 

 And remember, the only person who really needs to find your map fun is you. Don't try to cater to everyone, just make what you find fun and you'll find your audience.

[xScavengerWolfx]

Well since i'm still new to mapping even though i've been doing it for a year and a half now, all i can really say is this for people who want to get into mapping.

 

Always listen to the criticism from people, even if it's bad learn from it and work from it. Someone that has been on both side of it i can say that it helps with your mapping skill and you can learn from it as well.

 

Also start learning mapping in Vanilla first then work your way to advance map formatting.....unless your like really really crazy good with advance map formatting, then go for it.

 

Last thing is just have fun mapping. You can learn some crazy things when playing with it yourself *phrasing*

 

Edit: Oh and i should also add use the kiss method. the kiss method is keep it simple stupid. I learn that in high school. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by xScavengerWolfx

[Kinsie]

Your first maps probably aren't gonna end up how you envisioned them in your mind's eye, so don't get too ambitious right off the bat! Take it slow, figure things out as you go along, and learn to walk before running.

 

Also: CTRL+F9 in most Doom Builder variants will test your map, but with the Player 1 start moved to where your mouse cursor is. Utterly invaluable for quickly checking stuff.

[yakfak]

backdash from constructive criticism by swiftly pressing backwards twice. if they overcommit you could follow up with a launching uppercut and do an extensive punish combo

[Stupid Bunny]

4 hours ago, DMPhobos said:

Always try to make the sort of map that you have fun playing

 

This is the best piece of advice and it should orient everything else you do.  Even when considering map critique it's important to approach them from the standpoint of what you want to make; for example, if you love slaughtermaps and FIREBLU and somebody's response is "Way too slaughtery and all the FIREBLU burned my eyes", then the likelihood is just that they don't enjoy the same sort of maps you do.  Don't dismiss every criticism your map receives, of course, especially where it pertains to the success of your own vision: for instance, if folks complain that resources are too tight and you didn't want to make a resource starvation map then it's something to consider.  Also keep in mind that some people like me suck at Doom and that you usually want a good sampling of playtests before you drastically change anything.  If you take your super cool challenging resource starvation map and make it more "conventional" based on one person's complaint then other people who love that sort of map will miss out on a special experience.

 

There's a lot of conventions out there around texturing, layout, ammo placement, monster placement, etc. and while all of them exist for a reason none of them should be treated as inviolable rules.  One of the tricks of getting good, I think, is being able to honestly ask youself: "Do I genuinely enjoy playing this map?  Do I like the way it looks?  Would I have a good time if someone else shared a map like this?"  If the answer to these is yes then you're probably on the right track.  If the answer to any of them is no then our friendly team of playtesters might have some suggestions.

 

I'll also echo the other usual good advice, don't demand too much of yourself too fast, don't shovel out a 32-map megawad just to do it, and always have fun y'all

Edited October 5, 2022 by Stupid Bunny

[Thelokk]

Learn to distinguish 'objective', measurable criticism ("linedef 1179 is too short and can be skipped", "object 197 is stuck in a wall") from mere judgment of taste disguised as objective criticism ("your texture work is too simple / chaotic", "I don't like slaughtermaps", "your map doesn't respect the player's time" etc).

The former is almost always worth acting upon; the latter rarely is.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Thelokk

[Deadwing]

- Map a lot of small maps (finishable in 3-5 min, 10 in the very max), in packs of 10 or 20 maps. Your skill will increase a lot and your later maps will be a lot better than the earlier ones.

 

- Always try new things with each map. Plan your ideas in sketches before opening Doom Builder, have a general idea of what you want to do before having to think about everything when actually mapping.

 

- Learn to listen to feedback from people: A lot of people will complain about your maps, be analytical and try to understand why they feel that way so you can offer a solution (or none if you feel like it)

 

- Focus on the basics instead of fancy features. I'd advise to start with simpler formats such as boom before diving into more "robust" source ports such as gzdoom. Limiting your options is a good way to focus on more important features (creating more interesting layouts, enemy placements, setpieces, etc)

 

- Play a lot of different wads and find what you really like. I'm not talking about "Slaughter" x "classic doom" styles, but smaller things that amuse you: Your favorite level of difficult, if you enjoy non-linearity, what kind of enemies do you enjoy most fighting against, weapons, platforming, pacing, etc. If you dive into the "classic doom" style, for example, there are a lot of nuances that might interest you more and others that are more boring.

 

- This one is more for me tbh: Focus on what you really enjoy, but also look at what people like and work from that to create the kind of experience that works for both sides. There are always things in your work that can be improved by other's players feedback which won't change the essence of your work. Avoid mapping purely for getting other people's attention, though.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Deadwing

[ZethXM]

Gonna go against the grain here:  Getting good at the stuff you have a passion for, as expeditiously as possible, means practicing that passion.  Therefore, start working in whatever map format most directly translates what you want to do into functional map. If you want to make complicated, scripty stuff, or room-over-room, or whatever, start with UDMF.  Ultimately working on Vanilla isn't gonna make you better at fully-leveraged UDMF maps, anyway.  They're different skillsets.

 

It might seem like sound advice along the lines of "do simple thing first, complex things later", but your entire process is different when you're doing scripted sequences, 3D map flow, portal stuff, etc; and while UDMF is more complicated to look at, it also tends to have features that just do the thing you want without jumping through hoops, which makes it easier to directly translate your ideas into a product even if you're not making a super complicated map.

[Stabbey]

9 hours ago, Nefelibeta said:

To design a good map, DO NOT try to follow other people's design rules. ;)

 

You don't need to follow Romero's design rules. However, it does not hurt to understand why the rules exist in the first place, the reasoning behind them and the purpose they serve. That way, if you choose to break them, you are operating from a place of understanding.

 

(I'd also amend Romero's "If you can see outside, make sure the player can get there" to "If you can see pickups outside, make sure the player can get there", because I think that's what was actually meant. "See outside" is very vague, and it's not even a convention universally followed in the id iWADs.)

Edited October 5, 2022 by Stabbey

[DannyMan]

Don't make rooms feel too big or small.

[Kappes Buur]

It is not simply opening a map editor and going at it. Learn what a

map editor has to offer in the way of features.

 

Become proficient with the terminology used by DOOM as to be able

to describe any trouble with mapping if trouble should arise.

 

And if trouble should rear its head

then be as specific as possible and post a map

showing such trouble.

 

Too many times it is assumed that we, those who want to help, are mindreaders.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Kappes Buur

[EPICALLL]

Posting on my own thread, I know.
But;
I like to keep a checklist of things that should apply to any map, I.E.
- Is it fun?
- Is it fair/unfair?
- Is it NOT ugly?
- Is it creative?
- Is the map TOO long?
- Try to remember the map off of the top of your head, do you remember it?

Just sayin'

[Casketkrusher]

With all the advice given here, good luck on your mapping journey!

[baja blast rd.]

I could write reams on this, but here are some for starters. 

 

Doom mapping is not a monolithic artform. It's a medium. Different idioms of map are very different in what they are trying to accomplish, and each have their own "beginnner rules" so to speak. Even different types of map within specific styles have their own sets of rules in that sense. When people say "know the rules before you break them," one common big mistake that makes that whole sentiment counterproductive is that they are often implicitly normalizing one specific idiom as "how to map in general" (as in rules that should apply to all maps) without realizing it. So be wary of that and doing it yourself. 

 

The most important thing to work on and maintain is having fun when mapping. That doesn't mean that mapping is going to be without tedium or frustration, but if it's drudgework from start to finish, that is a bad sign. You should not converge to an unfun process just because in the very short-term, it turns out maps that are, like, 10% "better." Instead be initially "worse" and enjoy what you are doing -- and then the amount of increased practice you'll get in (because you're having fun and will do it more) will improve you that 10%, or 20%, or 50%. You'll quickly outpace the version of yourself who felt they needed to suffer and wasn't having fun so ended up quitting. 

 

Experiment. Do things you aren't sure you can do well. Doing the #1 thing you're sure you can do well at all times is a recipe for eventually zeroing in on a local maximum in skillset and ability. Also do what you want to do: if you're driven by something like UDMF maps with realistic detailing, don't feel the need to start with Boom-format run 'n' gun maps.

 

Realize that if you're a beginner to the scene, you will be awestruck by a lot of things because you won't be sure what you're looking at really. You'll think "Valiant is a high-detail wad" (lmao) and might feel like you can't ever match up because "every good wad has high detail" (lmao). As you learn more (and maybe try your hand at criticism and review :P), you'll probably be less intimidated. You'll realize that you can actually learn how to do seemingly superhuman, or impossible, things. Intimidation will gradually give way to (rarer) deep appreciation.

 

Try to spelunk around in Ultimate Doombuilder functions every now and then. Sometimes people go years without realizing that you can, like, floodfill a contiguous untextured stretch of map in 3D mode with the texture of your choice instead of applying that one texture to each of the dozens of linedefs manually. Understanding all the basic busywork tools you need is valuable because that lets you focus more on being creative, and also experiment more broadly. (A common mistaken line of undervaluing basic functionality is that you think, "Well I can do -what I already do- without that tool." But the value of understanding basic functionality is that you have the option to build a broader range of things that you subconsciously ruled out because they'd be too tedious, with that tool.) 

[EPICALLL]

Additional advice: Don't be afraid to try out new ideas. Trust me, newer mappers. Trial and error is part of what makes people get good at mapping.

[Desfar]

Advice from a new mapper.

 

If you have a question, it's VERY likely someone has asked and gotten the answer before.

 

Look on both forums and learn the key words to find a viable answer before asking. 

I have looked up answers that date back to 2007 for every aspect of wad and sprite work.