Is it cheating to use IDBEHOLD to turn off a powerup?

[Moustachio]

 

Be it a partial invisibility, those horrendous lite-amp visors, or just a berserk screen tint that you can't stand, we all have some powerups that we'd rather avoid than rush after. Would you consider it cheating to use IDBEHOLD to turn off the powerup?

 

It's a silly poll question, but I've been curious how other Doomers feel after realizing that I could just... take the visors off if I don't like them!

Edited October 16, 2022 by Moustachio

[Gez]

Yes, it literally is cheating.

 

Besides, sometimes powerups are deliberately used as powerdowns, putting them in places where you can't avoid picking them up. Like blur spheres to make enemy projectiles less predictable, or a berserk that's there just to switch your weapon away. I've seen this done!

[BigMetalhead]

30 minutes ago, Gez said:

Yes, it literally is cheating.

 

Besides, sometimes powerups are deliberately used as powerdowns, putting them in places where you can't avoid picking them up. Like blur spheres to make enemy projectiles less predictable, or a berserk that's there just to switch your weapon away. I've seen this done!

Just played Scythe and this is true. In map 27, you get teleported into an arena with 3 cyberdemons. One big detail, though, is that you get teleported on top of the invisibility sphere, so you’re forced to fight 3 cyberdemons with randomized firing directions.

 

So yes, if you’re disabling power ups, then you’re “cheating”. Or at least, you’re not playing in a way the mapmaker intended.

[YoshizinGordin]

I don't know what's more shocking, the fact that this thread exists, or that people actually like the lite-amp visors.

Edited October 8, 2022 by YoshizinGordin

[spineapple tea]

4 hours ago, Moustachio said:

 or just a berserk screen tint that you can't stand...

Dude, it goes away so quickly that a ton of people today still thinks the power-up wears off with the screen tint.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Spineapple tea

[El Juancho]

Yes, if you enable a cheat code you are cheating, crazy right? :^) 

[Doomy__Doom]

24 minutes ago, YoshizinGordin said:

I don't know what's more shocking, the fact that this thread exists, or that people actually like the lite-amp visors.

Amp goggles are free dehacked real estate - what's not to like?

 

Re:topic

Yes in a literal sense, but I'm inclined to say no in one specific case - if you could wait out the entire duration with minimal impact on the playthrough (i.e. spending 30/60s out-of-combat with no monsters able to meaningfully change their position on the map in that duration).

[Maribo]

Why use IDBEHOLDL when you can just tap the gamma key?

[DuckReconMajor]

44 minutes ago, YoshizinGordin said:

I don't know what's more shocking, the fact that this thread exists, or that people actually like the lite-amp visors.

 

I like being able to see things *shrug* It gives everything a new mapper look that I find charming.

I honestly hate the radsuit green much more than seeing everything full-bright 

I have no idea how to vote in this poll. There are 2 questions with different answers. I agree with others that it is indeed cheating. But of course if we're not talking demo recording or multiplayer, who cares.

[SleepyVelvet]

If you toggled off a powerup midgame, in most cases, I don't think anyone would challenge claims of you "beating the map" without being pedantic.  You could even make a stronger case for why not playing at 320x200 resolution and min-gamma is cheating.

 

But, like some people have said, all of these items have theoretical niche uses as powerdowns and other gimmicks too.

Edited October 8, 2022 by NoisyVelvet

[Herr Dethnout]

1 hour ago, YoshizinGordin said:

I don't know what's more shocking, the fact that this thread exists, or that people actually like the lite-amp visors.

Well... You know... Is nice to be able to see whats is happening on a pitch dark sector.

[MrGigglefingers]

It is cheating, yes. But also who cares

[Andromeda]

54 minutes ago, Maribo said:

Why use IDBEHOLDL when you can just tap the gamma key?

Because IDBEHOLDL doesn't make the game look like ass :^)

[LadyMistDragon]

When modified in other source ports/wads, the goggles are no longer such an annoyance to witness.

 

To answer the question, like, yes, although there are plenty of mappers not so deliberate as those @Gez is referring to that are frankly not thinking too much about location for power-ups, at least sometimes. It can be a less traveled road to deliberately place powerups in certain location in order to cripple/impede the player but that doesn't normally happen in general.

[heliumlamb]

when i walk into a walgreens or wherever with that nasty, bright, migraine inducing fluorescent lighting, aint no saving my retinas from that. can't IDBEHOLDL or gamma correct my way outta that. the same should apply to dooming.

it's an infrequent occurrence but i've played at least one non-petersen map where the liteamps were a useful, valuable tool for the level's progression.

[Xektor]

6 hours ago, El juancho said:

Yes, if you enable a cheat code you are cheating, crazy right? :^) 

very tru

[PineFresh]

5 hours ago, MrGigglefingers said:

It is cheating, yes. But also who cares

This. It's not like you're playing multiplayer.

 

I'm not personally bothered by light goggles making things fullbright (and in fact I disable the silly night-vision thing in modern ports). I do find partial invisibility useless-to-detrimental around anything but hitscan enemies, though (I prefer to assume I need to dodge projectiles rather than having to wait and see every time and half the time dodging into them). So on rare occasions I'll turn invis off.

 

But then, I'm also the kind of person who will occasionally IDDQD back to 100 health if I've gotten sloppy with my defense in the last room or two and only at that point do I realize that my last save was at the start of the map. At the end of the day, we all have our own sweet spot of accomplishment somewhere in-between hardcore perfectionism and running around with all cheats on.

Edited October 9, 2022 by PineFresh

[YouAreTheDemons]

Light-amp is good actually, most mappers are just clueless on how to use them.

[Wyrmwood]

I hardly ever find goggles, outside the base games it seems by far the least used item. Think the few times I did find some the mapper had made a pitch black section where they were useful (though I use improved light maps for glowing demon eyes on GZ and on dsda I have free aim off and crosshair change color when targeting so I kinda cheat every dark section anyway).

 

I do deliberately avoid blur spheres sometimes though, they can be really useful or a hindrance depending on enemy composition. Also playing with controller it's sometimes difficult to know which weapons are active.

 

I got confused with the poll though sorry answered yes for cheating (technically). I don't hate the goggles.

[Shanoa]

Yes it is cheating for reasons already mentionned. Also no, the light goggles are awesome, the only change i'd make to them would be the duration, i'd make it last less longer, kinda like the Heretic torch that also last too long. @scwiba did a great job using the torch in their Unbeliever Heretic mapset, where one of the level has you go through a dark maze so you need to make the most out of the provided torches. There's definitely plenty of opportunities to do the same with the light amp.

[Rykzeon]

Lite-amp powerup doesn't have any side effects like Invisibility Powerup where is become a powerdown when faced with projectile-attack monsters such as Imp and Mancubus or Berserk that forces the player switch into a fist which can be used to force player retreat after triggering a trap.

[Fadri]

This sounds like some kind of ethical dilemma, like a revenant trolley problem of some sort.

If it only counts as cheating when you gain some advantage using the code, we all know deactivating partial invisibility would help any time your enemies are not hitscanners.

 

But how about the light googles? They only can help you see better in the dark (the map looks uglier, but that's not dangerous, right?).

However, you could make a map where walking over some differently lit sectors would activate some instakill crushers or any other kind of trap, and give the player the light goggles in that part of the map without the choice of not taking them.

Deactivating the goggles there is cheating for sure!

 

I can't think a way that makes deactivating rad suits or berserks a strictly positive thing, though.

You could argue the tinted screen might hinder your vision, but when you have berserk with the tint already faded out, then what?!

Edited October 15, 2022 by Fadri

[Gez]

8 hours ago, Fadri said:

However, you could make a map where walking over some differently lit sectors would activate some instakill crushers or any other kind of trap, and give the player the light goggles in that part of the map without the choice of not taking them.

There's a map that features a maze where the way out is pointed out by arrows in a brighter light level. However, you're given lightamp at the start so you don't see those arrows until the powerup expires...

[Foodles]

I voted no in response to the question of whether I hate the lite amp visor but I would vote yes if the actual poll question was do you think it's cheating