most enthralling gameplay moment(s) in doom?

[heliumlamb]

(there are no correct answers here.)

 

what keeps you playing doom, and going "more of this please!" each and every time you experience it?
if you tend to get frustrated, what is it about doom that usurps every single bit of that frustration and keeps you playing?

since i'm starting this:

 

• "huh, what that switch do?" and all other manner of ambiguous trigger states.
  
  could this be why i think doom 64 is the best commercially released and available doom game? who cares. the necessity of inquisition in a scenario, and the eventual "OHHH, that's what that switch do!!" is a slower building, different sort of "rush" in contrast to the immediate rush that the typically present (some might consider required!) demon dances and other demon-related activities generally provides without fail, but these two "rushes" seem to compliment each other very well.
   
• every single time i see some infighting
  
  it's adorable? is that how i feel about it? it's part of the fun i reckon. despite being a staple feature in lots of the first person games in doom's wake (and the modern ones emulating the feel of the era), it seems to just feel the best in doom (and quake as well!). watching a caco grinning and chomping on a baron is a delight like no other.
   
• pinkie swarms and the subsequent pinkie herding
  
  before machines were introduced to hell (did hell take the machines from the uac, or did uac give the machines to hell?), i think that these creatures were once vital when it came to hell's agriculture, which we know was possible due to the Hell Grass™ (as seen on the episode 3 intermission screen). they are creatures worthy of your respect, and they demand mine. however, they've become a bit aggressive since hell's powers that be decided to give the machines precedence. oh well. when i've got plenty of pinkies chasing me around, i like to let them chase me for as long as survivable, and see how tightly i can condense them before needing to take care of them.
   
• when the camera bobs perpetually upon death because i'm poor player even on my own maps
  
  ehehe
   

answer variation is inevitable.

[baja blast rd.]

Great thread idea. Most positive or substantive critique is harder to do than just complaining, which is why complaining is often more common, but it's good to have the former. 

 

I'll start with two sides of the same coin. 

 

One is doing something that feels really badass. Here's the infamous sl20 crypt fight with the non-cheese method, where I end up doing an out-of-position, wrong-weapon-out, audio-cue cyb two-shot. 

 

 

Here's another two-shot where I was glad I was recording. I also love how the first cyb fired off its 2nd volley (the one I had to react to first) basically instantly after its first, which is really rare.

 

 

And the other side of that coin is fun, amusing, embarrassing deaths. Here I was wondering if there was a transparent wall there, which was, uh, ill-advised. 

 

 

Stuff in either of these categories happens spontaneously and can't really be forced, which is a lot of the fun of playing. Every session has a chance of some kind of delightful odd occurrence like that. Unless I'm doing an FDA or something, I usually play in a "loose" way (that is, not trying to maximize survival odds at any given moment, and doing fun/arbitrary things), which makes both more likely to occur though. (And is also good for skill acquisition :P.) 

[Stupid Bunny]

A good question indeed.  I'll go ahead and examine two sides of a different coin, though both share an element of unpredictability that never, ever gets old.

1. The slow burn. I love a map that carefully builds tension, where you may spend half the map in empty rooms and corridors, knowing that something terrible is going to happen but having no idea when.  Maybe you hear doors opening, floors shifting, distant teleports, but you don't know why, or what's triggering it.  No "blue key in the middle of a big empty room" traps here, in these kinds of maps the danger could come from any direction at any time.  Maybe it's even been stalking you since the start of the map.  The map's secrets slowly reveal themselves as you go, so that it never descends into repetition and you are kept on your toes, wondering what will be next.
2. The relentless onslaught.  I don't mean simply "lots and lots of enemies everywhere", specifically, although that is definitely part of the frenetic, chaotic experience I have in mind.  It's more the fact of those lots and lots of enemies constantly emerging out of on ever-growing, ever-shifting map that never lets up until the end.  Walkover linedefs are good for this kind of experience, where merely crossing to one side of a room to nab some much-needed ammo is enough to reveal more baddies in an even bigger space.  The pressure is constant and unrelenting, though you have enough kit and space to overcome it if you keep your focus.

In short, I love the ability of a good map to surprise.  Whether the "oh god oh fuck" is the terror of an unseen enemy in the dark waiting to pounce, or of constant waves of traps and monster armies descending one after the other, it's that expectation of the unexpected in a good map, and the knowledge that everything I see at the beginning of a map is no indication of what will be there by the end, that keeps me focused and invested and shuts everything else out.  Not every map offers such an experience, of course, but it's amazing how many do.

[Pechudin]

I like maps which give you no resources at the start, forcing you to scramble around, avoiding enemies and activating new traps and ambushes. Eventually you find some weapons and reclaim a small bit of space and build from there, but never really safe due to roaming high-HP baddies and Cacos/PEs.

 

Also tight spaces and Rocket Launcher.

[Maribo]

Executing the horseshoe kiting strategy against a large horde. Something about controlling an ocean of enemies that would otherwise overrun you is what keeps me coming back to slaughter, every time I think I've gotten tired of it.

One of my favorite examples: click - go to 18:33 if the link breaks.

[yakfak]

- opening and closing a door a billion times and then going back to that area much later to see which single mob is still alive

- jumping in obvious crushers, jumping in acid, getting shot in the face with projectiles <3 feel like this is distinctly more doomguy-like than sidestepping that stuff

- tbh i think finding a secret at a crucial moment is gameplay and thats my fave thing of all: rushing too far into a level then desperately seeking supplies by jamming space on everything as I run. Gusta's maps kinda good for this

[Thelokk]

22 minutes ago, Maribo said:

One of my favorite examples: click - go to 18:33 if the link breaks.

 

That map. PTSD in a nutshell. Good stuff though.

 

Honestly, it's the architecture that always brings me back to Doom - there is something minimalistically essential about it that I just appreciate. Even the larger stuff like Sunder or Abandon have, in their best moment, that abstract touch that Unreal engine stuff and afterwards just can't replicate - it's probably the brutalist appeal of the lack of slopes. Also helps that combat is irrelevant to me, I got tired of it a long time ago, and find myself NoMoing maps more often than not. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Thelokk

[Captain POLAND]

Insane architecture and huge open rooms with tons of enemies everywhere

[Wyrmwood]

I'm going to borrow the two sided coin metaphor again for this one.

 

Doom's comfortable and fairly predictable. I grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons, Space Hulk and BloodBowl. I love playing turn based video games and I enjoy reading and learning the rules in RPG source books and game manuals. Doom follows fairly straight forward learnable rules that once learned become ingrained. I had over a 20 year gap for Doom but playing again was like riding a bike it just came back (though I had forgot Archvilles were a thing!). There's games I played a bit of 6 months ago I'd probably have to re-start to properly enjoy but Doom (and a few others like the Infinity Engine games) I can never forget how to play. So I love Doom because it's easy to understand and like a comfy slipper and could play it forever.

 

Doom's totally unpredictable. Without even factoring in the fact that some of Doom's rules aren't as obvious as they seem (I thought berserk only lasted while the screen was red) and you need to research a little to finally crack them, lots of WAD authors quite wonderfully and imaginatively manage to stretch those rules to the limit. Then Mod authors and source port devs completely break the rules. It seems Doom can never be tamed, so I can play it forever.

 

Anyway these are some of the reasons I love Doom, it can be as comfortable or crazy as the mood takes me, though I agree with Thelokk the minimalistic architecture is definitely appealing also.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Wyrmwood
Spell check

[TheSlipgateStudios]

When a room gets dark after you pick up an important item and demons spawn in or a closet opens.

[phoo]

I love dynamic map geometry that morphs and changes to fit different encounters. It's always awesome to see a map unravel as you progress.

[heliumlamb]

i hadn't really thought too much about spontaneity, dynamics of structure and the dynamics of spontaneity, but it's hitting me harder since i started putting together maps again earlier this year.
doom's chaos numbers (ive stopped calling this "rng" - tangent-rant about this is below) makes each session/route through a map dynamic in a way that i really haven't seen outside of things running on id tech 1.

(this is about tetris specifically and computer selected numbers broadly)

Spoiler

for fun i have started to refer to random number generation as chaos numbers. it makes sense to me and confuses others.
what we perceive as random numbers from a computer might not always be truly random, but they will always be from chaos.

most familiar to me is in tetris in its various implementations.
gameboy tetris (the best nintendo tetris), specifically the revision that is in like 99% of copies out there, exhibits genuine favoritism in the way it calls up the next piece.
i began to notice it in my own play, but this is not truly random i'm afraid.
https://harddrop.com/wiki/Tetris_(Game_Boy)#Randomizer

"L" being the least frequent, measurably.

but it's still incredibly chaotic. the unpredictability that can come from the bouts of piece deprivation ends up making gameboy tetris more engaging than any tetris with the sanitized srs and 7-bag. i've physically fallen asleep before while playing modern guideline tetris. getting fucked over by the randomizer with 1.5 tetrii ready to go and not recovering is the fate of most runs post level-15 in gb tetris, so much more fun than knowing that i'm going to at least be getting one I in the next 14 pieces.

on the other hand, the original arcade release of sega's Tetris (1988) has the same pattern upon every single boot. it wouldn't be noticeable mid-day on a machine that's had like 10-20 games on it but right after boot it will always have the same order. yet no 2 players will stack alike. this ended up becoming sort of a meme that shows up late-game in Sega Tetris (1999) and at least one of arika's tetris the grand master games.

(back to doom and chaotically determined computer numbers)

 

from the variation in damage values given and received, to the difference in a monster's path depending on your route and location. how fights, regardless of scale, play out completely differently depending the direction(s) of your approach and how long they've been in pursuit. whether that green slime fire from the muscular goaty demons or whatever projectile you didn't dodge is indeed going to hit hard this time or not. earlier this year i ended up constructing a scenario where cacos would sometimes be as friendly as doom monsters can be and help trigger a WR secret, completely unintentionally. i lost it yesterday when a caco just happened to chomp and kill me yesterday right as i reached the top of a lift. definitely all happy cacos. the approach to the map and what the player might experience differs session to session, player to player. even if the chaos numbers were to no longer be a factor, no 2 players will ever play 100% alike, even if trying.

 

every single time i press the movement keys i just can't get over the momentum (little bit sluggish to start, slow "rolling" stop). it's something i've only really seen in the 2d sonic games, and is probably why sonic robo blast 2 works as well as it does.

both the dynamic nature of each session and player, and the delays between movement input and full speed/full stop could be interpreted as "loose", especially compared to quake (tight movement, strict damage values), but in practice it's absolutely not the case.

[head_cannon]

I'm really fond of the grand tradition of building traps for the player to stumble into. One of my favorite doom moods is when one is getting bad vibes from an area and has to tense up trying to guess where the attack will come from. Some of the most memorable maps for me have been the ones that crafted a menacing atmosphere and let the player stew in the silence, wondering when it would be broken.

 

Other times, they've got razor-sharp comic timing as a compartment springs open or bars lower unexpectedly, forcing an immediate reaction to the sudden peril. Or when, in the middle of a pitched battle, the player makes a dive for what looks like a place to take shelter and discovers that no, this only makes things worse! The inherent pleasures of the fundamentals of moving & shooting is something that deserves some credit, to be sure, but one of my favorite things about Doom is its ability to deliver a good scare.

[baja blast rd.]

Okay here's another one. I love it when the scenario feels partly like something you 'made'. It's playing as creativity to me. Imo I think playing, like, most maps is sort of a duet between author and player, and I tend to like going for fun stuff that isn't necessarily forced or, again, conductive to survival. 

 

 

This whole stretch (0:00-1:00 of this video, but I left the cleanup in because even that's fun) in Ancient Aliens map15 is one I love, how chaotic and messy it gets, and just about every time you play it some very different things happen with monster behavior, but you can also react pretty comfortably to it and have a big error bar because of how many resources are provided.

 

The basic texture of it is made of so many fun things, including the basics like gibbing fodder, but also slightly rarer enjoyable things like plasma-ing through a stream of zombies in that neat U-shaped row that is also really fun to move through at the same time. 

 

AA map15 is not an easy map I guess but one of the reasons I don't really care about "difficulty enforcement" in most maps is that if something is very forgiving, I can just play it more recklessly . 

[Fluuschoen]

Mostly the fast (advanced) movement, and that dynamic bobbing/swaying of the PoV/weapons, which gives a very fluid, aggressive and focused nature to the game for me, and can't get enough of it. Pair the unforgiving combat to this, and you have a gameplay worthy of attention, but basically retiring from 20 years of Quakes do this to ya by default, I suppose. You can't flow around with 200 miles per hour in CS, destroying everything in your wake, like an effin laser. You know, feeling like a superpowered badass in the rain of gibs. : D

 

Lately getting a little bit into slaughter (but still not my total liebling, just started to appreciate it to a degree), and fighting a literal army of foes alone makes the gameplay even more amped up and unique.

 

From which stems: looking down on an ocean of corpses, as a solid memento of your presence.

 

The sheer atmosphere in itself, that id Tech 1 geometry achieves in various degrees and intensity (different levels of crudeness convey different, endearing feelings). It has soul, it has dreams. Sometimes it invokes an abstracted longing, deep inside, partly related to childhood, trying to fight the absolute catastrophe and the inevitable end of subjective existence, and sometimes it's plain beautiful/moody from an aesthetic point of view as well.

 

The audiovisual design (so the sprites, textures and sounds) is spot on, more than memorable. This is not gameplay per se, but relates to it in a way.
 

The randomness of it, makes it more interesting in the long run, because you need more proficiency, and more ingrained basics to succeed consistently.

The very accessible, but really hard to truly master aspect of the game, the actual depth of it, with zero spoon-feeding.

 

The highly configurable nature of it.

 

The moments when the subconscious takes over, and you're crushing it on autopilot. 

When an earlier unsurmountable challenge becomes somewhat trivial, either due to a revelation or the much needed practice you did.
 

If I get a targeted or better time on a map I try to speedrun, which in the end is getting close to the greats. Definitely need more of this though, but it's only about 3 years since I picked up Doom with less casual intentions, and my 'work ethic' is not that sublime. Meaning I'm lazy af. :' 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Fluuschoen

[baja blast rd.]

Replayed Valiant m17 on a whim and got a few spots. 

 

 

1) Being on low res for a while due to a tough spot (or here, just playing badly) and then that desperate rush for healing. 

 

2) Thoughtful minimalism. Like three supermancs doesn't seem like it'd be much of a fight, but it's a really good setup for the BFG, where the BFG might be powerful but it has downsides (having to get up close for efficient tracers). 

 

3) When monster AI ends up feeling like the monsters collaborating against you in a smart way, like these two arachnotrons splitting up to each control one of the lanes. 

 

Have been meaning to contribute to this thread more, but it's easier to do with concrete gameplay than abstractions.

 

Oh yeah I remember another clip. This little maneuver where you have to dodge a revenant missile with almost no room (by standing still and dodging at the very last moment). Also fits into the general category of "I made a big mistake and now I have to dig myself out." Another way that happens without mistakes is having to avoid wayward infighting projectiles, which is also fun.

 

 

Also the other day I fired a badly aimed rocket while straferunning forward, and the rocket hit a far away wall (that I had caught up to) and blew up a barrel that flew into me and then sent me off a cliff, dead. I wish I had that as a clip. (Bonus points for it being in my own map lmao.) 

 

I could come up with dozens of fun things like this and I'll try to do more. The game is really fun on an atomic level. :)

[Kinetic]

getting in the face of a some cybers (other enemies mixed in with them in a horde optional) and BFGing them and finding a good rhythm of dodging and timing tracers to get in their faces. 2 shotting a cyber without much room to move is also very fun. Those 2 scenarios fills me with a feeling of swagger and confidence, it's just so blatantly dominating the toughest and most dangerous enemy in the game, your best weapon against the "hardest demon", and just executing at a high level. It feels better too with good music and/or the stress of a demo attempt.

[E1M10]

E1M6, Nightmare speedrun, pistol start. It’s a rush, and that map specifically is very doable on Nightmare, doesn’t feel unfair the way E1M3/E1M5 do

[DoomPlayer00]

Honestly just the various kind of combat scenarios people come up with using vanilla monsters only keeps bringing me back.

[Starduster]

exiting any dimensions map

[Electro Rage]

Map 06 of Fractured Worlds: The White Room. You just have to see it for yourself. No words can describe the adrenaline I felt.

[baja blast rd.]

This

 

 

[slugger]

- rockets flying past your face

 

- hitting two zombiemen at once with the regular shotgun

 

- barely getting out of a scrape by using up the last ammo you have left

 

- berserk pummeling a pain elemental so aggressively it never makes any lost souls

 

- when you're struggling, lost, out of resources, and you stumble upon the exit and go "fuck maxing this!!! i'm out!!!"

 

- that feeling when you're holding a rocket launcher and click on a wall in front of your face, and you get a split second to regret it

Edited December 13, 2022 by slugger

[baja blast rd.]

 

This video is definitely not a 'moment' but has a couple of them:

 

- this sort of free-roaming, open-plan start where it just feels like you can do a bunch of different things and stir up a lot of chaos (and get yourself into more trouble than strictly necessary) -- there's something so exciting about that feeling of "I can do whatever I want here and have lots of forward momentum at it too"

 

- being low on health in a situation with clear but not overwhelming danger, and having to desperately grab some stuff (this happens like 3-4 times)

 

Those tie together quite well especially because taking advantage of #1 leads to getting oneself in quite a lot of trouble. 

 

Yes this wad has imps in garbage cans. Such a good enemy. 

[NeedHealth]

The other day I had a chaingunner kill a mancubus just as I shot a rocket at it. The result was the rocket going through the mancubus and sending the chaingunner flying, dead.

Edited January 22, 2023 by NeedHealth

[Helm]

Whenever there's stairs rising I still get excited. Doughnut special does it too.
 
"Myst but with a rocket launcher" kind of maps. 

My favourite feeling is when I play someone's very first map. 

[Uncle 80]

Most enthtralling gameplay moment in Doom (2) would be when I'm playing a map where the gameplay and atmosphere fit my tastes so perfectly I'm "dragged into" the map - when the pulse rate goes up, and I'm actually scrambling to survive instead of lazily/casually playing through something with an "eh" attitude towards actually making progress and staying alive.