'95 Never Dies CP [Full!]

[magicsofa]

1 hour ago, Raspoza said:

I really wanted to contribute with an episode 4 map, so I will gladly take the e4m7 slot. I will try to make it medium to long length.

 

Perfect, I'll just pencil you in then :P

[Bobby :D]

6 hours ago, magicsofa said:

@Bobby "J (E2M6) no update in over a year! Still here?

Oh thing is still going? Sorry but I'm not doing CPs for a while

[magicsofa]

3 hours ago, Bobby "J said:

Oh thing is still going? Sorry but I'm not doing CPs for a while

 

No worries, someone will take it!

[Uni]

Can I have E2M6 instead? It's been a while since I participated in a community collaboration and I never made anything for Doom 1. 

[magicsofa]

11 hours ago, Uni said:

Can I have E2M6 instead? It's been a while since I participated in a community collaboration and I never made anything for Doom 1. 

 

For sure. Welcome to a world without megaspheres

[Aku]

@magicsofa here is my draft for e2m4
https://www.mediafire.com/file/i6mj5orsco2ww3f/community+project+e2m4.wad/file

let me know what you think.

[Use]

1 hour ago, Aku said:

@magicsofa here is my draft for e2m4
https://www.mediafire.com/file/i6mj5orsco2ww3f/community+project+e2m4.wad/file

let me know what you think.

 

This level has a great mood and looks nice, but is not vanilla compatible. There's a big visplane overflow near the yellow skull door area, and tutti-fruity errors in a couple places. Remember to test your level in Chocolate Doom or another vanilla-friendly source port. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Use

[Aku]

5 minutes ago, Use said:

 

This level has a great mood and looks nice, but is not vanilla compatible. There's a big visplane overflow near the yellow skull door area, and tutti-fruity errors in a couple places. Remember to test your level in Chocolate Doom or another vanilla-friendly source port. 

ok, i had only tested it on  gzdoom , il get chocolate doom to see what you talking about.

not sure what  tutti-fruity means

Edited February 3, 2023 by Aku

[Use]

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Tutti-frutti_effect

 

One instance in your map is the nukage edging texture near where the wall opens revealing the blue and yellow door. It's a common texture bug when working with vanilla.

[Aku]

ok trying to downgrade it to work in chocolate doom, fixed all the visplane overlows,  only problem is a section that works fine in gzdoom where  the floor around the soon to be raising stairs raises to the roof and the stairs follow, like a building growing out of nothing, in chocolate doom the stairs raise way too much or sometimes not at all.
 

[Use]

Yes stair movers can be tricky in vanilla. Here's a few tips; if the stair mover is connected to another sector that moves, it's motion must be stopped before activating the stair trigger. If the final step of your stair is tagged but also is adjacent to another mover, try and adjust your stairs so the final 'destination' step is not tagged. You may also try to implement the special tag 999 on every alternating step, this can separate the stair mover from other moving sectors. 

[Aku]

ok i finally figured it out, after trying all the tricks such as making dummy stair sectors , taggin 99 ext , i thought everything was going to fail, i was about to give up and just have it be a a normal structure(but that wouldve been too boring),then i just simply reversed the outer linedefs then Walla, hooray, yay it worked. after hours of messing around i kinda kicking myself of not thinking of that first.

but here we are,i persisted and now its chocalote compatible, obviously i had to downgrade a fair bit of fancy architecture to make it work, so no more flesh chandeliers, a shorter acid tunnel & detail to several pillars are reduced to avoid visplane overloads, so hopefully this time there wont be any problems.

new link to chocolate e2m4- (i just update the link 5 minutes after this post, just to fix some misaligned textures that were bugging me lol) 
https://www.mediafire.com/file/bkvxhvci7cs2civ/community+project+e2m4+chocolate+downgrade.wad/file

Edited February 3, 2023 by Aku

[magicsofa]

9 hours ago, Aku said:

new link to chocolate e2m4- (i just update the link 5 minutes after this post, just to fix some misaligned textures that were bugging me lol) 
https://www.mediafire.com/file/bkvxhvci7cs2civ/community+project+e2m4+chocolate+downgrade.wad/file

 

The map looks like fun, but I unfortunately hit a solid segs crash right after the first teleport. I'm a bit confused about what solidsegs is, because the wiki just lumps it together with openings, then only talks about the openings limit (20480). But if you switch visplane explorer to SS mode, it shows a limit of 32. Anyway here's the location, anyone know how to fix that without blindly removing detail and praying?

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

There are also quite a few areas that exceed 128 planes. The main issue I'm seeing is that you have long hallways connecting more than two rooms without any bends, meaning the player can sometimes see too many sectors:

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Octagon room is overflowing mainly because of the spiral with alternating light levels and ceilings  ^^^

 

Vanilla mapping can be a real pain in the ass if you are used to no-limits. It's supposed to be "less work" because you just can't pack more detail in than the renderer will handle. Anyway, a few of these should be easy to solve. I recommend putting some sort of bend in that giant hallway, you should be able to save some detail that way. There are some spots with rows of lights, every time light level or flat changes that's another visplane. Try blobbing some (or all) of them together instead. Other spots are gonna take some thought as to how they should be changed. The spiral is a real visplane killer. Also that blue platform with lots of cool squiggly tech nonsense. I might have some time later tonight to analyze these spots further so I'll try to find you the least-bad options

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by magicsofa

[Aku]

10 hours ago, magicsofa said:

 

The map looks like fun, but I unfortunately hit a solid segs crash right after the first teleport. I'm a bit confused about what solidsegs is, because the wiki just lumps it together with openings, then only talks about the openings limit (20480). But if you switch visplane explorer to SS mode, it shows a limit of 32. Anyway here's the location, anyone know how to fix that without blindly removing detail and praying?

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

There are also quite a few areas that exceed 128 planes. The main issue I'm seeing is that you have long hallways connecting more than two rooms without any bends, meaning the player can sometimes see too many sectors:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

The Octagon room is overflowing mainly because of the spiral with alternating light levels and ceilings  ^^^

 

Vanilla mapping can be a real pain in the ass if you are used to no-limits. It's supposed to be "less work" because you just can't pack more detail in than the renderer will handle. Anyway, a few of these should be easy to solve. I recommend putting some sort of bend in that giant hallway, you should be able to save some detail that way. There are some spots with rows of lights, every time light level or flat changes that's another visplane. Try blobbing some (or all) of them together instead. Other spots are gonna take some thought as to how they should be changed. The spiral is a real visplane killer. Also that blue platform with lots of cool squiggly tech nonsense. I might have some time later tonight to analyze these spots further so I'll try to find you the least-bad options

 

 oh my oh my, well im starting to understand why the original doom levels where so bare bones in their approuch.
thou i can imagine there should be ways for mw to close up and separate the areas to avoid these problems

what program are you using to identify the problem areas?

[RastaManGames]

@Aku If you are talking 'bout visplane - it is built-in tool inside of "Ultimate Doom Builder" level editor.

[Aku]

1 hour ago, RastaManGames said:

@Aku If you are talking 'bout visplane - it is built-in tool inside of "Ultimate Doom Builder" level editor.

i just got gzdoombuilder which has it (so far had just been using normal classic doom builder), got to say wow its a lot more easier to do basically everything, how one can zoom in and easily make more complex structures, i think im goin to try and use this version more often.

[Aku]

@magicsofai seem to have gotten rid of all the visplane overflow observing everything with visplane mode, im unsure how to activate this ss mode you speak of(figured that out).
however that area is no longer glitching as i put some walls to between which seem to have stoped the glitching.

its midnight now and i have just updated the link- https://www.mediafire.com/file/bkvxhvci7cs2civ/community+project+e2m4+chocolate+downgrade.wad/file



hopefully this version should have no problems whatsoever and be fully functional, im confident it is fully vanilla compatible now.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Aku
just updating progress without bumping too much.

[Uni]

I would also suggest to ferociously check your map in Chocorenderlimits and not solely rely on Doom Builder visplane explorer. Try checking your map with all pathways open and with minimized HUD as well, since the HUD can sometime lower your visplane count. I know it sounds a little overkill but after working on some vanilla maps before, I realized how restrictive it can get sometime. Just my two cents.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Uni
Typo's

[Raspoza]

I am making progress with E4M7 after struggling for so long to make a good looking design. Here is what I got so far.
There are some minor visplane overflow errors here and there but they are in inaccesible areas so if you play as intended the map doesn't break, and even if you managed to get to those areas the max it'll do is some rendering problems, the game doesn't crash.

It's a bit of an outdoors type map.

Spoiler

 

[pcorf]

On 2/4/2023 at 8:51 PM, Aku said:

@magicsofai seem to have gotten rid of all the visplane overflow observing everything with visplane mode, im unsure how to activate this ss mode you speak of(figured that out).
however that area is no longer glitching as i put some walls to between which seem to have stoped the glitching.

its midnight now and i have just updated the link- https://www.mediafire.com/file/bkvxhvci7cs2civ/community+project+e2m4+chocolate+downgrade.wad/file



hopefully this version should have no problems whatsoever and be fully functional, im confident it is fully vanilla compatible now.

 

 

If you can keep it to 100 or less it should work fine. Remember when you open doors, or when areas open up the visplane overflow limit increases and you may hit 128.

[magicsofa]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:19 PM, Raspoza said:

I am making progress with E4M7 after struggling for so long to make a good looking design. Here is what I got so far.
There are some minor visplane overflow errors here and there but they are in inaccesible areas so if you play as intended the map doesn't break, and even if you managed to get to those areas the max it'll do is some rendering problems, the game doesn't crash.

It's a bit of an outdoors type map.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Looks really nice! Just to be clear, overflows in areas that are unreachable during normal play are OK.

 

On 2/4/2023 at 4:51 AM, Aku said:

@magicsofai seem to have gotten rid of all the visplane overflow observing everything with visplane mode, im unsure how to activate this ss mode you speak of(figured that out).
however that area is no longer glitching as i put some walls to between which seem to have stoped the glitching.

its midnight now and i have just updated the link- https://www.mediafire.com/file/bkvxhvci7cs2civ/community+project+e2m4+chocolate+downgrade.wad/file

hopefully this version should have no problems whatsoever and be fully functional, im confident it is fully vanilla compatible now.

 

Well I got through your map with no major errors. Nice work! It's a really fun blast-through map with some cool twists! There were some small bugs (step textures getting the tutti-frutti) and a few areas felt like they could be more populated with monsters. But, I think I played HMP by accident so I'll have to go back through on UV and give you more detailed notes.

 

On 2/5/2023 at 5:42 PM, pcorf said:

If you can keep it to 100 or less it should work fine. Remember when you open doors, or when areas open up the visplane overflow limit increases and you may hit 128.

 

True, although there is an "open doors" checkbox which I always have on. There are other things that it doesn't do however that can change the visplane count as well - lifts, other floor/ceiling actions, and lighting changes.

 

One thing I try to do, in order to avoid needing too much testing shenanigans, is to "force" those planes by making sure that sectors that can change are already using a different flat, light level, or floor/ceiling height. This way they will get counted by visplane explorer instead of surprising you at runtime

[Cammy]

Actually, on second thought, I'm going to drop the E3M6 slot - I've got plenty on my plate as it is. Good luck to whoever takes it up!

[Aku]

On 2/8/2023 at 6:53 PM, Cammy said:

Actually, on second thought, I'm going to drop the E3M6 slot - I've got plenty on my plate as it is. Good luck to whoever takes it up!

il take the slot if possible.

[JustAthel]

Hello, here's my E4M4 submission that I made in a day yesterday and finally got the motivation to upload tonight. It's a fairly small map and I do believe the original inspiration is pretty obvious, but I'd like to get some thoughts on this. All skill levels have been implemented and there are also co-op starts available. I don't have a name for it, but I can make one up if that's necessary! Tested under Chocolate-Doom and DSDA-Doom.

 

Download 95nde4m4.wad

 

Spoiler for screenshots

Spoiler

 

[Captain Keen]

Looks great! Kinda like a community Stickney. I'm gonna play the current iteration as is, thanks for adding that link!

[Aku]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:42 AM, pcorf said:

 

If you can keep it to 100 or less it should work fine. Remember when you open doors, or when areas open up the visplane overflow limit increases and you may hit 128.

noted, il have it 100% fail proof before i fiinish it completely, with some creativity il get around that all.

i have also started e3m6 as no one else seemed interested in that.

[magicsofa]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:04 PM, JustAthel said:

Hello, here's my E4M4 submission that I made in a day yesterday and finally got the motivation to upload tonight. It's a fairly small map and I do believe the original inspiration is pretty obvious, but I'd like to get some thoughts on this. All skill levels have been implemented and there are also co-op starts available. I don't have a name for it, but I can make one up if that's necessary! Tested under Chocolate-Doom and DSDA-Doom.

 

 

 

Nice, I'll hopefully get around to testing this tonight or tomorrow. As far as level names, I was assuming we would just keep the original names since we are (loosely) referencing those maps. But, I'm open to other suggestions... I do love stupid puns so we could come up with silly "knock-off" names.

 

11 hours ago, Aku said:

noted, il have it 100% fail proof before i fiinish it completely, with some creativity il get around that all.

i have also started e3m6 as no one else seemed interested in that.

Updated the list...

...I'll wait another day or two and then free up the rest of the no-show slots.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Bumping to say E2M1 is going smoothly. I should have a demo up by next week.

[magicsofa]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:04 PM, JustAthel said:

Hello, here's my E4M4 submission

 

Just got around to playing your map... the boxy style of the architecture actually works pretty well and I like the overall flow, there are a couple of good spots where enemies patrol a raised or lowered perimeter which made for some nice combat moments. It would be nice to have some taller structures/rooms because the map has a similar ceiling height throughout which makes even the sky areas feel bunker-like.

 

Overall the map is way too easy on UV. Ammo count seems just right, but there's too much health and the monster placement made most fights less threatening. I took some damage from shotgunners here and there, but with so much health around it didn't matter. Imps on ledges/pits were okay, but several demons stuck there were nothing more than ammo drains. The few large groups of enemies were always situated conveniently in a room behind a door, making it really easy to just sit back and waste them all. The barons were especially weak, having nowhere to move and often getting distracted by the other demons behind them. Maybe they should be allowed to teleport down to the player's level, with a few more cacodemons in the trap behind. This is E4 after all!

 

The other things I noticed were inconsistent blood damage (one damages, the other doesn't), and the final room can be easily jumped:

 

 

I was also a bit confused about the intended route of jumping back into the teleporter... my natural instinct was just to hop down the ledge. After hitting both switches I ran around the whole map looking for new openings. I'd recommend just having a tunnel to the blocked exit or something else that is more obvious. Anyway this little puzzle didn't feel very consequential because there were no more enemies to fight - they all politely stood on the ledges while I shot them down. Maybe there could be some baddies released with each switch?

 

Overall not bad for one day of work, just needs some polishing and cranking up the heat a bit!

[JustAthel]

Yeah, funnily enough I kind of felt the same way, but I wanted to get another set of eyes on it before I did anything else, just to make sure it wasn't just my self-doubt kicking into overdrive. I kind of feel like you being confused had the intended effect, this map in the base E4 confused me quite a bit during my first playthrough so to hear that I managed to recreate this feeling is something I'm, for once, pretty stoked about! You caught me on one of my days off so I'll give this another passthrough and see what I can do to vary everything else up. Thanks for your criticism! I'll be a little meaner :p

EDIT: I am also aware of that exit room, I thought I'd leave that in there as a cheeky little speedrun route!

Edited February 16, 2023 by JustAthel