FelixTheNoodle Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) I know the difference between limit removing and Boom compatible maps and port, but because the GZDoom source port contains many of the features that those kinds of maps and ports could utilize, would that mean that GZDoom is able to play almost all maps that are made for limit-removing and Boom-compatible ports? Just asking. Edited October 29, 2022 by aGuyNamedKeith 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Lucius Wooding Posted October 29, 2022 Yes, ZDoom based ports are Boom compatible, as well as Heretic, Hexen, Chex Quest, etc. ZDoom also has some significant features of its own but it will essentially play anything except if it uses specialized features like Eternity Engine and stuff. ZDoom should also cover MBF which is an adaptation of Boom with some extra features. GZDoom is pretty much plug and play for 99% of wads, the only caveat is that some settings like infinite height monsters and freelook and other compatibility stuff may not translate to the same experience across ports. It's also not demo compatible with other ports in general. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
Ar_e_en Posted October 29, 2022 Yes! GZDoom can play limit-removing and Boom maps just fine, I would say that GZDoom can run those maps with 99% accuracy compared to limit-removing and Boom friendly ports. The remaining 1% being a few minor inconsistencies that GZDoom creates due to its extra features (the ability to jump can break a few sequences, some movement tricks may be inaccurate, things are not infinitely tall, etc.), but you can just change some compatibility setting in the options menu to alleviate those problems. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
FelixTheNoodle Posted October 29, 2022 46 minutes ago, Lucius Wooding said: Yes, ZDoom based ports are Boom compatible, as well as Heretic, Hexen, Chex Quest, etc. ZDoom also has some significant features of its own but it will essentially play anything except if it uses specialized features like Eternity Engine and stuff. ZDoom should also cover MBF which is an adaptation of Boom with some extra features. GZDoom is pretty much plug and play for 99% of wads, the only caveat is that some settings like infinite height monsters and freelook and other compatibility stuff may not translate to the same experience across ports. It's also not demo compatible with other ports in general. 44 minutes ago, Ar_e_en said: Yes! GZDoom can play limit-removing and Boom maps just fine, I would say that GZDoom can run those maps with 99% accuracy compared to limit-removing and Boom friendly ports. The remaining 1% being a few minor inconsistencies that GZDoom creates due to its extra features (the ability to jump can break a few sequences, some movement tricks may be inaccurate, things are not infinitely tall, etc.), but you can just change some compatibility setting in the options menu to alleviate those problems. Thanks, both of you. I shall reward your gratitude with a gift: my favorite meme I could find from glancing at the image results for "cursed memes" on google. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Jiggahertz Posted October 30, 2022 "Are limit-removing and Boom-compatible maps able to be played on GZDoom?" Yes 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
EPICALLL Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) It depends on what's in the map. I'm not sure what exactly it depends on, but I know there is something to be weary about. You'll know something's off when you see it, however. I.E. something being made with the vanilla limitations of BOOM in mind Edited October 31, 2022 by EPICALLL 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Fluuschoen Posted October 31, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 2:12 PM, Ar_e_en said: Yes! GZDoom can play limit-removing and Boom maps just fine, I would say that GZDoom can run those maps with 99% accuracy compared to limit-removing and Boom friendly ports. The remaining 1% being a few minor inconsistencies that GZDoom creates due to its extra features (the ability to jump can break a few sequences, some movement tricks may be inaccurate, things are not infinitely tall, etc.), but you can just change some compatibility setting in the options menu to alleviate those problems. I wouldn't call the different physics, alternative RNG table and monster behavior (and many other differences) a 1 % tho. It's pretty far from accurate, even in strict mode tbh. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
SMG_Man Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) One thing that you have to keep an eye out for is that some limit-removing maps will make use of (unintended, but present nevertheless) features available in the original engine, and unless the map set you're playing is one specifically whitelisted by (G)ZDoom, those effects will not work. For example, if you're playing a lesser-known map that uses ghost monsters in any capacity, they will not function, whereas if you were to load up Plutonia 2's MAP32, they would work as intended there. Some things like this arbitrarily do not have compatibility flags that you can set in (G)ZDoom, so in order to experience the map as intended you would need to use a different port. Edited October 31, 2022 by SMG_Man 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
Doomy__Doom Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, SMG_Man said: Some things like this arbitrarily do not have compatibility flags that you can set in (G)ZDoom "compat_vileghosts" most certainly exists in console and is automatically set to true on Doom(strict). It's a fair argument that you can't always know that you want it to be set ahead of time though. Another example would be that relatively recent case where a map (don't remember the name) had a garbage bit on a linedef that became MBF21 player-blocking, as the default state of MBF21 is to enable features, the compat flag is there to disable them. Mandatory glides would be something that you can't compat away afaik. I guess there is also the conveyor belt physics thing, I haven't played but recall seeing a couple mapsets that mention their vodoo setups don't function on zdoom. Edited October 31, 2022 by Doomy__Doom 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Kinsie Posted October 31, 2022 I believe a comp flag for re-enabling the ghost monster bug was a fairly recent addition. Previously there was a real gross hack to only enable it on certain specific old maps that demanded it. This also means vanilla mapsets that include a ZMAPINFO lump can re-enable that bug for maps for are built around it. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Andromeda Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Doomy__Doom said: Another example would be that relatively recent case where a map (don't remember the name) had a garbage bit on a linedef that became MBF21 player-blocking, as the default state of MBF21 is to enable features, the compat flag is there to disable them. That would be MAP04 (Sewers) from Realm of Chaos. There's probably other levels out there with the same problem, since I'd guess it's caused by the buggy editor they had available on the Mac back then. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
FelixTheNoodle Posted November 1, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 7:26 AM, SMG_Man said: One thing that you have to keep an eye out for is that some limit-removing maps will make use of (unintended, but present nevertheless) features available in the original engine, and unless the map set you're playing is one specifically whitelisted by (G)ZDoom, those effects will not work. For example, if you're playing a lesser-known map that uses ghost monsters in any capacity, they will not function, whereas if you were to load up Plutonia 2's MAP32, they would work as intended there. Some things like this arbitrarily do not have compatibility flags that you can set in (G)ZDoom, so in order to experience the map as intended you would need to use a different port. Oh. Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep that in mind. 22 hours ago, Kinsie said: I believe a comp flag for re-enabling the ghost monster bug was a fairly recent addition. Previously there was a real gross hack to only enable it on certain specific old maps that demanded it. This also means vanilla mapsets that include a ZMAPINFO lump can re-enable that bug for maps for are built around it. I was never expecting the one and only Kinsie to reply on this. Though, the fact that the comp flag is a recent addition... feels like it should have been added to (G)ZDoom long ago. Weird it took that long. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Herr Dethnout Posted November 1, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 7:58 AM, aGuyNamedKeith said: I know the difference between limit removing and Boom compatible maps and port, but because the GZDoom source port contains many of the features that those kinds of maps and ports could utilize, would that mean that GZDoom is able to play almost all maps that are made for limit-removing and Boom-compatible ports? Just asking. Well, limit-removing is just a vanilla map without the original engine limits, so yeah is 10.000% sure that it can. It can run Boom too, but I recommend you to play both maps on a Boom or limit-removing focused port (like Doom Retro, Crispy Doom, or PrBoom+/DSDA Doom, because GZDoom based ports tends to handle the things way too different than original Doom even with strict mode or compatibility options on, and since is focused on using Truecolor Hardware rendering it can break some maps that use software rendering or vanilla engine tricks (Like for example the Tutti-Frutti texture glitch or HOM). 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Dark Pulse Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, aGuyNamedKeith said: I was never expecting the one and only Kinsie to reply on this. Though, the fact that the comp flag is a recent addition... feels like it should have been added to (G)ZDoom long ago. Weird it took that long. GZDoom maintains an internal compatability list that will do things like automatically fix map bugs and enable specific features for maps that need them and are well-known. Ghost monsters were one of these things, so maps that were well-known and used them had the flag automatically set. It's just that recently they decided to make that a mapper-controlled thing, and admittedly for some time there was some discontent, as it was otherwise a unilateral fix - mappers could not enable it before it was allowed to be mapper-sectable. Edited November 1, 2022 by Dark Pulse 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Graf Zahl Posted November 1, 2022 22 hours ago, Andromeda said: That would be MAP04 (Sewers) from Realm of Chaos. There's probably other levels out there with the same problem, since I'd guess it's caused by the buggy editor they had available on the Mac back then. Correct. The problem was severe enough that I added a compatibility option for it. 1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said: It's just that recently they decided to make that a mapper-controlled thing, and admittedly for some time there was some discontent, as it was otherwise a unilateral fix - mappers could not enable it before it was allowed to be mapper-sectable. The problems with this stem from an ancient decision in ZDoom to replace gibbed corpses with a new actor. With this setup it was not possible to revive the ghosts. This design mistake was recently undone for non-players. 9 Quote Share this post Link to post
Ravendesk Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) It may seem like it does at the first glance, but actually the answer is No. A lot of Boom features are not supported correctly by GZDoom even with "Boom strict" compatibility. Most notorious is probably the difference in the way GZDoom handles Boom scrollers. The speed of very slow, very fast and not properly aligned scrollers is wrong in GZ. The further you go from "normal" speeds, the worse it becomes. But that's just the beginning of the list. Friction floors behave differently, fake floors behave differently. Reverse control floors don't work. Boom instakill floors work incorrectly. The amount of control you have on scrolling floors is also different. cl2 mikoportals don't work. And I didn't even mention the physics difference, that hugely affects some gimmicky maps. There are hacks for some of them that wad creators carefully add in their maps so people who play everything in GZ become a little happier, but they are often imperfect and they don't fix all the issues. If you are going to play any non-conventional and creative wad (Wormwood 3, Poogers among others) I strongly recommend strictly following the author's recommendation for the intended port. Otherwise you might be missing out on the fun things map author made for Boom simply because they don't work in GZ. Edited November 1, 2022 by Ravendesk 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
DeletedAccount Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) In my opinion, limit removing wads and Boom compatible wads should be tested with their respective source port. This is because, GZDoom doesn't emulate very accurately to Boom and Limit Removing, and makes certain gameplay changes like GZDoom supports jumping, disabling infinitely tall enemies and blocking decorations, which is even allowed in some Boom ports like PrBoom+, but it mapping errors menu, so, for Boom and Limit Removing you should play the map with regular ports to emulate accurate behaviour. If you keep mapping in Boom or Vanilla and test it with ZDoom and its based ports, then it will use some demo incompatible features just like I mentioned above, and we won't be able to record demos coz i am sure that 99% of the GZDoom users will play maps with Default compatiblity not any strict compatibility. And yeah, one more thing, GZDoom doesn't support ghost monsters at all, even in its Doom(Strict) compatibilty settings.. If you are intentionally making the use of ghost monster bug, like e.g HR map 26 etc, I recommend go for ports like Crispy, PrBoom plus, Woof!, DSDA etc. So, my answer for **Are limit-removing and Boom-compatible maps able to be played on GZDoom?** is NO. @Ravendesk's answer is more accurate than me ;) Edited November 2, 2022 by Heck Yeah 🤟🤟🤟 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Ar_e_en Posted November 10, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 11:30 AM, Fluuschoen said: I wouldn't call the different physics, alternative RNG table and monster behavior (and many other differences) a 1 % tho. It's pretty far from accurate, even in strict mode tbh. I mean - if you're worried about demo recording, then yes - the "1%" would be a big deal, but since GZDoom doesn't really have demos - then the inaccuracies really would feel like a "1%" difference between ports. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Trar Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) My go-to sourceport for maps that have Boom compatibility issues in GZDoom would probably be Woof! since it's a continuation of (the Windows port of) Marine's Best Friend, which itself was a continuation of the original Boom. DSDA-Doom is also another good modern Boom-compatible sourceport but I'm still bothered by its janky chainsaw animations; it's up to personal preference really. Generally speaking though I usually throw stuff that doesn't obviously need GZDoom into LZDoom (or Crispy Doom) first and use something else if I run into problems. Edited November 12, 2022 by Trar 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Anthalion Posted December 10, 2022 Probably not a place for this, but anyone knows how to make Partial Invisibility to behave in GzDoom, like, as it supposed to? I put compatibility mode to strict and yet enemies are always un alerted to me unless I attack. That is not how classic Doom works. Thank you. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
Shepardus Posted December 10, 2022 39 minutes ago, Anthalion said: Probably not a place for this, but anyone knows how to make Partial Invisibility to behave in GzDoom, like, as it supposed to? I put compatibility mode to strict and yet enemies are always un alerted to me unless I attack. That is not how classic Doom works. Thank you. It should be set correctly when you use one of the "strict" presets, but it's "Monsters see invisible players" under the "Actor Behavior" part of compatibility options. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
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