E1M1 - A different version?

[Shepardus]

14 minutes ago, Captain Keen said:

Still seems weird to me, but copyright and patent laws in my country are half nuts imho so I guess it is what it is. I’ve bought Doom multiple times, so shouldn’t it be legal for me to download older versions to compare and contrast just for fun? Anyway check out archive.org if you’re interested, they have every version imaginable as a wad and you can run it in a modern source port like GZDoom. I just tried version 1.1 out of curiosity and it works great. You get one pop up error about the Nightmare text, since this is the version from Dec 16, 1993 before that mode was added. Was actually really interesting to look at it. I forgot that the pentagram room in E1M5 was added and also it’s weird to see the eaaaarrrllllyyy first version of E1M1. In many ways 1.1 feels like the advance beta release and 1.2 feels like the first truly solid all around version, and it’s the one I remember the best.

As discussed in the video, there are patches available to convert IWADs between versions, and those are perfectly legal to use.

[baja blast rd.]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:51 PM, Apprentice said:

On another topic: I have seen a lot of "E1M1 remakes" over the years and yeah, I dare say it: a lot of them really suck!

 

This one is really good.

 

 

[Nefelibeta]

7 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

 

This one is really good.

 

 

Talk about some serious gameplay!

[Xyzzу]

Spoiler

Where you hoping that cyb shot you in retaliation immediately after waking up from a shotgun blast? c:

 

[Anarkzie]

I first played Doom on the SNES so I remember some of this stuff, it did have secret lift/hallway but everything else is as you mentioned.

 

I mentioned this in another thread but the level Spawning Vats saw some really drastic changes in the console ports of the time. I think I read somewhere that Tom Hall said that at one point Doom was not going to have individual levels but be one big open game. I think this level was designed around that concept which is why it's a bit of an odd ball. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Anarkzie

[AbeAwesome]

9 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

I’ve bought Doom multiple times, so shouldn’t it be legal for me to download older versions to compare and contrast just for fun?

 

Should it be legal? I think it's actually a complex question—more or less complex depending on the media.

 

For example, let's say you bought a DVD copy of a film, are you then entitled to download a Blu-ray copy just because it is a version of a product you already own? I think in this case, most people would say no. On the other hand, if I miss a show on broadcast TV, I don't feel guilty downloading a copy—it's not legal, mind you, but I'd say it's ethical, so I'm willing to do it.

 

In the case of games—I own a copy of a game that was patched via Steam (let's say), and lost functionality, I think it's ethical to get a copy of the older version. In the case of the IWADs, the older versions are no longer on sale, so I do think it would be ethical to acquire copies via extralegal means if I own newer versions... but it still wouldn't be legal, though it may be in a grey zone and could be litigated (should, even).

 

Sorry for the ramble. :P

[Captain Keen]

1 hour ago, AbeAwesome said:

 

Should it be legal? I think it's actually a complex question—more or less complex depending on the media.

 

For example, let's say you bought a DVD copy of a film, are you then entitled to download a Blu-ray copy just because it is a version of a product you already own? I think in this case, most people would say no. On the other hand, if I miss a show on broadcast TV, I don't feel guilty downloading a copy—it's not legal, mind you, but I'd say it's ethical, so I'm willing to do it.

 

In the case of games—I own a copy of a game that was patched via Steam (let's say), and lost functionality, I think it's ethical to get a copy of the older version. In the case of the IWADs, the older versions are no longer on sale, so I do think it would be ethical to acquire copies via extralegal means if I own newer versions... but it still wouldn't be legal, though it may be in a grey zone and could be litigated (should, even).

 

Sorry for the ramble. :P

Not to get too off topic, but it IS actually an interesting debate. And I don’t really have the clear exact answer, either. Not sure if there is one. You bring up good points. Also, you’re right that there’s a difference between “legal” and “ethical”, absolutely. So I guess what I’m saying is I think downloading older versions from an archive is ethical, especially since it’s not like you can purchase those anywhere from an actual storefront or from id. This is the only way to have those versions (or the patch for iwads mentioned above).

It’s also kinda pathetic how many times I’ve bought Doom 1 and 2… during their original releases, then the Ultimate Doom version for Doom 1, then on Steam, then for my PlayStation…

[Apprentice]

11 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

This one is really good.

 

 

 

I call that one ... funny :D

 

As for the legality of the IWAD, all of the shareware versions containing Episode 1, which E1M1 is part of, are still available on various Doom websites. They work in DOSbox and modern ports.

[Andromeda]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:38 PM, RjY said:

Before v1.2, there was no lift opposite the shotgun secret.

Interesting that the armor bonuses were already there before the secret hallway was added.

[Maximum Matt]

On 11/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, Contmotore said:

Hmm... Extra switch?

Doom wikia: "[Added in v1.666]  Inside the eastern "tomb" [where the barons come out of], there is a secret compartment on the east wall. Opening it reveals a switch (H), which re-activates the elevator at the south end of the room, allowing the player to return to earlier sections of the level. This compartment is not needed for 100% secrets."

 

EDIT: Also, at 3:40 of your original video, your game encountered a rare memory overflow known as the All-Ghosts Glitch, something I have hardly ever seen in all my years of Doomin', yet you captured an example of when making a video about an entirely different subject.  Damn you.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Maximum Matt

[SiFi270]

9 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Interesting that the armor bonuses were already there before the secret hallway was added.

You mean those blue dots? I think that's actually part of the UI for whatever editor that is. It's still totally possible to finish the pre-1.2 versions with 100% items... but there is a stimpack in the outdoor area the armor pedestal overlooks.

[Contmotore]

13 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

EDIT: Also, at 3:40 of your original video, your game encountered a rare memory overflow known as the All-Ghosts Glitch, something I have hardly ever seen in all my years of Doomin', yet you captured an example of when making a video about an entirely different subject.  Damn you.

Yeah, I wasn't even sure to add it into my video, but I was like whatever. I had no clue!

Edited November 14, 2022 by Contmotore

[staros96]

4 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

You mean those blue dots? I think that's actually part of the UI for whatever editor that is. It's still totally possible to finish the pre-1.2 versions with 100% items... but there is a stimpack in the outdoor area the armor pedestal overlooks.

I might be being silly here - how is one meant to get the stimpack! 

[Nightmare2989]

25 minutes ago, staros96 said:

I might be being silly here - how is one meant to get the stimpack! 

WTF never knew there was a stimpack out there

Edited November 14, 2022 by Nightmare2989

[Contmotore]

21 minutes ago, staros96 said:

I might be being silly here - how is one meant to get the stimpack! 

 

15 minutes ago, Nightmare2989 said:

WTF never knew there was a stimpack out 

Interesting, haha

 

Just checked version 1.2, and it wasn't there anymore. I wonder what they had planned, or maybe it was placed there by accident? Seems like a lot of things have changed, but not every thing was that noticeable.

 

[staros96]

Just now, Contmotore said:

 

Interesting, haha

 

Just checked version 1.2, and it wasn't there anymore. I wonder what they had planned, or maybe it was placed there by accident? Seems like a lot of things have changed, but not every thing was that noticeable.

 

This is going to haunt me. What was planned?! Much like that area tbh where doortrax is on the entrance and was originally a secret (can’t remember who flagged it but another user here, will dig up later at home), wonder if there was meant to be a trigger / secret here to get it 

[Nightmare2989]

Just now, Contmotore said:

 

Interesting, haha

 

Just checked version 1.2, and it wasn't there anymore. I wonder what they had planned, or maybe it was placed there by accident? Seems like a lot of things have changed, but not every thing was that noticeable.

 

Might of been like maps of chaos where you can go out there maybe 

[Nightmare2989]

Just now, staros96 said:

This is going to haunt me. What was planned?! Much like that area tbh where doortrax is on the entrance and was originally a secret (can’t remember who flagged it but another user here, will dig up later at home), wonder if there was meant to be a trigger / secret here to get it 

My guess yes, a secret maybe a early chaingun

[Richard Simons]

Oh I had the same experience remembering two different versions of E1M1. 

 

I originally started playing Doom shareware on a 486 and totally missed all that "CD-ROM" hype at the time  🤪 

Edited November 14, 2022 by JT_Marshmallow

[RjY]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:09 AM, Andromeda said:

Interesting that the armor bonuses were already there before the secret hallway was added.

 

As others have said, those are Eureka's grid marks :).

[Contmotore]

On 11/14/2022 at 2:39 AM, Maximum Matt said:

EDIT: Also, at 3:40 of your original video, your game encountered a rare memory overflow known as the All-Ghosts Glitch, something I have hardly ever seen in all my years of Doomin', yet you captured an example of when making a video about an entirely different subject.  Damn you.

Here's the unedited clip of E1M3 where it happened.

 

 

[Gez]

On vendredi 11 novembre 2022 at 12:51 AM, Apprentice said:

On another topic: I have seen a lot of "E1M1 remakes" over the years and yeah, I dare say it: a lot of them really suck!

For this thread in particular, I will have to recommend that one:

Alternatively:

 

[Gez]

On samedi 12 novembre 2022 at 7:22 AM, Captain Keen said:

you can run it in a modern source port like GZDoom. I just tried version 1.1 out of curiosity and it works great.

GZDoom can play Doom v1.1 and older IWAD just fine because internally, if STBAR is missing, it automatically recreates it from STMBARR and STMBARL. I made the patch myself just a little bit over a decade ago.

 

For other ports, I don't know. I've checked Chocolate Doom, and it looks like it can handle it. No such luck for Eternity Engine or Woof! and from your video, no such luck either in DSDA-Doom and therefore presumably any of its ancestors. Therefore, this ability to play Doom v1.1 seems exclusive to ZDoom and Chocolate Doom.

 

[Captain Keen]

Ok, one thing I noticed… the sound effect when you pick up certain items like a soul sphere is missing in GZDoom playing Doom 1.1 or 1.2. It’s just silence. However it’s there for 1.9, both in the original 3 eps and Ultimate variant.

 

Is this a GZDoom quirk or was that sound effect added later on and was not present in early versions of Doom? Anyone know?

[Gez]

19 minutes ago, Captain Keen said:

Is this a GZDoom quirk or was that sound effect added later on and was not present in early versions of Doom? Anyone know?

I believe early versions of Doom used the same pickup sound for "big" items like the Soul Sphere as for "small" items like the health bonus (DSITEMUP). The "big" item sound (DSGETPOW) was added later. Indeed I don't see it in any version older of the IWAD older than v1.666, which is where it appears for the first time.

 

Since a missing sound doesn't prevent the game from being played, contrarily to the missing status bar graphic, ZDoom never bothered to handle that case.

[Captain Keen]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

Since a missing sound doesn't prevent the game from being played, contrarily to the missing status bar graphic, ZDoom never bothered to handle that case.

 

That makes sense! Thanks for the reply.

[ZOMILE]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:17 AM, SiFi270 said:

Seeing this thread really made me paranoid. My head was filled with such questions as, "were there two pillars in the armor room?" and "was there a third secret with armor bonuses" and "were there fences in the second to last room?!??!?!!???!??!??" I had to double check the map in Slade to be sure it was exactly as I remembered it.

 

  Hide contents

And it is. Phew.

 

that looks like the wolfenstein editor tbh

[Pezl]

For some reason I dont have the switch and other stuff in my Ultimate Doom version, probably got the old one so yeah, good time version tho

Edited November 21, 2022 by Pezl

[staros96]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:39 AM, SiFi270 said:

You mean those blue dots? I think that's actually part of the UI for whatever editor that is. It's still totally possible to finish the pre-1.2 versions with 100% items... but there is a stimpack in the outdoor area the armor pedestal overlooks.

This still bothers me - did anyone get any info on why the stimpack? :D