Knee-Deep in KDiZD: Released! It's KDiZD for doom2.exe - 1.7.1 is now on /idgames

[Gregor]

25 minutes ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

1. when entering the sophite/dark corridor at the start of the level I am getting pickup messages for health potions, but nothing gets picked up

 

24 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

It sounds like the dehacked patch isn't loading correctly, as those are definitely not intended behavior. What port are you using?

Wait. i'm also getting the pickup messages at the beginning. But isn't this normal? Aren't the health bonus pickups and messages a necessary side effect of the Mikoportals? You can also see Doomguy's damage face for a moment as a result.

[esselfortium]

2 minutes ago, Gregor said:

 

Wait. i'm also getting the pickup messages at the beginning. But isn't this normal? Aren't the health bonus pickups and messages a necessary side effect of the Mikoportals? You can also see Doomguy's damage face for a moment as a result.

Oops, I can't read. The pickups and damage are normal, yeah.

 

The weird sprite colors are a bug in DSDA-Doom and PrBoom+.

[ludicrous_peridot]

 

27 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

The weird sprite colors are a bug in DSDA-Doom and PrBoom+.

Those colors I could see in Tartar running in DOSBox... that's not related to Dehacked handling then? I am curious to troubleshoot, but dehout looks ok to me.  

Boom, original MBF and Gerwin's MBF 2.0.4 all segfault on me when loading KDiKDiZD in DOSBox, so I wouldn't know what to compare to in DOS.

 

27 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Aren't the health bonus pickups and messages a necessary side effect of the Mikoportals?

Apologies, but is this vanilla conveyor belt side effect, or the portal effect side effect? I am curious what actually gets picked up/hurts the player.

 

EDIT: ok, no worries - EE329DB5 loads KDiKDiZD just fine, no color artifacts, so must be Tartar shenanigan of some sort.

Edited November 13, 2022 by ludicrous_peridot

[TasAcri]

Oh man, i'm stuck in map 3... Can't, for the life of me, find how to disable the door shield that leads to the red key. I'm circling around for hours and can't find anything, lol.

 

I don't remember getting stuck as long in the original KDIZD...

[esselfortium]

2 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

Oh man, i'm stuck in map 3... Can't, for the life of me, find how to disable the door shield that leads to the red key. I'm circling around for hours and can't find anything, lol.

 

I don't remember getting stuck as long in the original KDIZD...

Get the orange key upstairs near the original exit, then take the lift down near the orange lights in the mines to get to the forcefield switch. That part of the progression is the same as in KDiZD, though I did add some signposting to hint at it.

[esselfortium]

5 minutes ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

 

Those colors I could see in Tartar running in DOSBox... that's not related to Dehacked handling then? I am curious to troubleshoot, but dehout looks ok to me.  

Boom, original MBF and Gerwin's MBF 2.0.4 all segfault on me when loading KDiKDiZD in DOSBox, so I wouldn't know what to compare to in DOS.

 

Apologies, but is this vanilla conveyor belt side effect, or the portal effect side effect? I am curious what actually gets picked up/hurts the player.

This hasn't been tested in any DOS engines other than Doom2.exe itself, so I can't really advise on that.

 

The damage and health pickup is how the vanilla conveyors are activated. The voodoo dolls each receive a single health bonus, then a perpetual explosion generator blows up a barrel near the doll, dealing 1% damage to each doll, pushing it onto the "conveyor".

[WH-Wilou84]

Congratulations essel (& team) for this incredible piece of work !
I've only played the first 3 maps, and have already been impressed multiple times by the sheer talent and inventive technical wizardry on display. Loving the camera texture effects, these are amazing.

My FDAs on UV, played with DSDA Doom : https://www.dropbox.com/s/rn9hakxy8qlmej3/KDiKDiZD_FDAs_WH_13-11-2022.zip?dl=1

I've also spent a significant amount of time in Z1M3, although I felt that it was easier to navigate than in the original.
 

As regards to bugs, aside from the sprite visual artifacts on some of the new Z1M3 enemies that have already been mentioned, I've noticed this one on Z1M3 : projectiles can go through lines 7759, 7761, 7763 and 7765.

These linedefs probably need to be flipped.

[Vader]

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

Hmm, it goes to Military Base for me. That's very strange. I've tried in the official version and in a dev build.

That's weird... could it possibly have something to do with the fact that I entered the tram with the regular exit (without pressing the switch of course) and then went for the secret exit?

I'll look into this further later... I'm not at my pc atm

[esselfortium]

10 minutes ago, Vader said:

That's weird... could it possibly have something to do with the fact that I entered the tram with the regular exit (without pressing the switch of course) and then went for the secret exit?

I'll look into this further later... I'm not at my pc atm

Hmm, it shouldn't matter, I think...

 

13 minutes ago, WH-Wilou84 said:

Congratulations essel (& team) for this incredible piece of work !
I've only played the first 3 maps, and have already been impressed multiple times by the sheer talent and inventive technical wizardry on display. Loving the camera texture effects, these are amazing.

My FDAs on UV, played with DSDA Doom : https://www.dropbox.com/s/rn9hakxy8qlmej3/KDiKDiZD_FDAs_WH_13-11-2022.zip?dl=1

I've also spent a significant amount of time in Z1M3, although I felt that it was easier to navigate than in the original.
 

As regards to bugs, aside from the sprite visual artifacts on some of the new Z1M3 enemies that have already been mentioned, I've noticed this one on Z1M3 : projectiles can go through lines 7759, 7761, 7763 and 7765.

These linedefs probably need to be flipped.

Thanks for the FDAs and bug report!

[Gez]

1 hour ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

Apologies, but is this vanilla conveyor belt side effect, or the portal effect side effect? I am curious what actually gets picked up/hurts the player.

There's no vanilla conveyor belt. So how to make one?

 

The point of the mikoportal is that is allows to create permanent freefall by using integer underflow. By putting the floor at the minimum possible value, the voodoo doll will not fall on the floor but loop back to the highest point. And the point of doing that is that while the player (or voodoo doll) is in the air, there is no friction. This allows to conserve momentum for as long as needed.

 

However, the problem becomes to acquire momentum in the first place. Again, there's no vanilla conveyor belt. Something is needed to give the voodoo doll a push, because otherwise the only momentum it will conserve is 0. And it's vanilla, you can't use pushers/pullers or other effects. But... damage induces pushback. If you can deal damage to the doll, by crushing a nearby barrel, you can make sure the voodoo doll will be pushed in a specific direction and with a predictable speed. With a carefully measured distance between doll and barrel, you can reduce the damage inflicted to the doll to just 1 point. That's still enough to make it move, and that's hardly noticeable -- the game will not make the screen flash red. But you lose 1 hit point because the doll loses one hit point... So put a health bonus that will be picked by the voodoo doll as soon as it moves, and that'll negate the one point of damage.

[NightFright]

Geez, rocket science in Doom. It's happening.

[ludicrous_peridot]

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

This hasn't been tested in any DOS engines other than Doom2.exe itself, so I can't really advise on that.

 

Sure, @esselfortium. If only I could ask to share what the below bits translate to in the dehacked editor that you use, e.g. as source in the "pre-patch" form or a screenshot? Apologies I am not familiar with the python tools you've mentioned, and seeing authors intention for setting these would help me troubleshoot. Thanks.

Thing 113 (Dead Marine)
Bits = 201326592

Thing 119 (Guts and Bones)
Bits = 201326592

On a bright note from DOS - EE of as early as 2001 build runs the mod :)

[esselfortium]

1 minute ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

Sure, @esselfortium. If only I could ask to share what the below bits translate to in the dehacked editor that you use, e.g. as source in the "pre-patch" form or a screenshot? Apologies I am not familiar with the python tools you've mentioned, and seeing authors intention for setting these would help me troubleshoot. Thanks.

Thing 113 (Dead Marine)
Bits = 201326592

Thing 119 (Guts and Bones)
Bits = 201326592

On a bright note from DOS - EE of as early as 2001 build runs the mod :)

Those flags are for color remapping (normally used for multiplayer player sprites), to go along with the palette changes.

[ludicrous_peridot]

26 minutes ago, Gez said:

But you lose 1 hit point because the doll loses one hit point... So put a health bonus that will be picked by the voodoo doll as soon as it moves, and that'll negate the one point of damage.

 

Reading your explanation (thanks for it), I being to wonder if it would be a courtesy from a source port to inform the player about the active pawn, and conceal the events that (e.g. screen flashing or messages) are triggered for the voodoo dolls. 

[Lizardcommando]

I got done playing through KDIKIZD (the first public release. I did not get to play the second public release, so I am not sure if any of these issues being brought up have been fixed yet).

 

It is quite tough to play through and it is pretty easy to get lost with all the backtracking you gotta do. I think I was playing on Hurt Me Plenty too. I feel like the player is underpowered at certain times, even with the supershotgun and rocket launcher at your disposal. Some of the enemies feel a bit redundant like the grey Pinky Demon and the Hellknight looking guys. The chaingun guy, the dark grey Cacodemon and the spiky black imps feel pretty over powered. I did not like those shield hell knights. Those were very annoying to fight, especially in close quarter fights. The final bosses were really cheap to fight against, especially with that homing fire blasts. Having all three of those fire barons do that homing fire blasts at the same time is really frustrating. The attack does look cool, but maybe have it so that this attack does not home in on the player.

 

The one thing I loved about this mod is the story telling and the levels' atmosphere. While I did say that it is really easy to get lost in the levels and the amount of backtracking you do is annoying, the levels do look really nice and it has a spooky atmosphere throughout. Also, the fact that this mod is compatible with the original doom2.exe is really impressive. I had no idea a lot of the tricks seen in this mod were even possible in the original doom2.exe. The story is cute and it is a neat way to retell the story of E1 and KDIZD.

 

All in all, I'd give this a 7.5/10. Great atmosphere in the levels that look really nice and overall a really good soundtrack that sets the mood for the mod. However, I was not a big fan of the amount of backtracking you have to do throughout the levels. There some really annoying enemies you fight (that felt either redundant, overpowered or just plain annoying to fight to fight) and the boss fight at ZDE1M8 was pretty unfair.

[esselfortium]

24 minutes ago, Lizardcommando said:

The chaingun guy, the dark grey Cacodemon and the spiky black imps feel pretty over powered.

Thanks for playing!

 

I think the chaingunner here has identical behavior to the Doom 2 chaingunner.

 

Skill settings are fully implemented and have fewer of the most difficult monsters. I tested easy skill by playing keyboard-only with no strafing.

 

Most of the KDiZD backtracking was eliminated here, but there's still a bit in some places, yeah.

[Gregor]

25 minutes ago, Lizardcommando said:

All in all, I'd give this a 7.5/10. Great atmosphere in the levels that look really nice and overall a really good soundtrack that sets the mood for the mod. However, I was not a big fan of the amount of backtracking you have to do throughout the levels. There some really annoying enemies you fight (that felt either redundant, overpowered or just plain annoying to fight to fight) and the boss fight at ZDE1M8 was pretty unfair.

I'd say a lot of these balancing and layout issues of mention are problems that were already present in the original KDIZD, that this project simply inherited on account of it being a more or less faithful translation into vanilla.

[Lizardcommando]

4 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I'd say a lot of these balancing and layout issues of mention are problems that were already present in the original KDIZD, that this project simply inherited on account of it being a more or less faithful translation into vanilla.

 

Ah got it. Makes sense when you think of it that way. Those were also the main issues I had with the original KDIZD.

[esselfortium]

The thing placement and monster changes in KDiKDiZD are my work, and a lot of layout flow changes have been made as well, so I don't feel like the blame should be entirely placed on KDiZD for things you didn't like, even though there is of course a lot of KDiZD in this by virtue of its concept. Thanks for the feedback.

[dew]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

If you can deal damage to the doll, by crushing a nearby barrel

Just a bonus to your explanation: Crushing barrels is notoriously unreliable, because they can be reduced to gibs without producing an explosion, so essel created a dedicated dehaced thing that generates explosions.

[esselfortium]

Public Build 3: Downloab

Hopefully fixes a rare crash bug with the Hell Warrior shield.

Actually updates the UMAPINFO because I forgot to actually copy it into the wad for build 2.

Z1M4: Fixed a tutti-frutti.

[GarrettChan]

Map13 (Z1M1) and Map14 (Z1M2) UV Max playthough:

Spoiler

 

Note: this is the internal beta version of the map I received while playtesting, thus the old music. Map13 and Map14 will be those 2 with beta version of the maps. After that, those will be public releases.

 

Still, thanks a lot to Essel for having me as a playtester although I feel I'm way too lazy towards the end and basically did nothing.

[Eevee]

Just played this for like four and a half hours.  I like to think I know a respectable number of things about Doom mapping, so I only saw like three tricks in here that I can confidently say are impossible.

 

Absolutely brilliant.  And it seems to play better than the original!

[TasAcri]

41 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Public Build 3: Downloab

Hopefully fixes a rare crash bug with the Hell Warrior shield.

Actually updates the UMAPINFO because I forgot to actually copy it into the wad for build 2.

Z1M4: Fixed a tutti-frutti.

 

Saves from build 2 seem to work with this.

I assume saves don't break with these updates?

[esselfortium]

2 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

 

Saves from build 2 seem to work with this.

I assume saves don't break with these updates?

I'm not sure. For this update, saves on Z1M4 might break, and saves where Hell Warriors (the lion shield guys) are currently active might break.

[LexiMax]

6 hours ago, Gez said:

Perhaps for another map set. Odamex has been noted to be incompatible with this:

 

Lumping Odamex in with the other ZDoom forks is a bit misleading, as we're actually quite Vanilla compatible already and an Odamex team member has expressed interest in figuring out where the remaining incompatibilities lie.  Coop KDiKDiZD on Odamex might be a possibility in the future, just a matter of priorities and free time.

[Gregor]

Switching to Eternity after first plying on DSDA, i noticed that the dual keycards don't get displayed correctly in the HUD in Eternity. Instead of both being displayed together, just one of them is displayed alone. In Map03 you pick up the yellow key first, then when you pick up the green key, it simply replaces the yellow one. The only way to see that you have the yellow key afterwards is to switch to the advanced HUD, which can show all six possible keys. Is that a limitation of the engine or simply a bug?

Edited November 14, 2022 by Gregor

[esselfortium]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

Switching to Eternity after first plying on DSDA, i noticed that the dual keycards don't get displayed correctly in the HUD in Eternity. Instead of both being displayed together, just one of them is displayed alone. In Map03 you first pick up the yellow key, then when you pick up the green key, it simply replaces the yellow one. The only way to see that you have the yellow key afterwards is to switch to the advanced HUD, which can show all six possible keys. Is that a limitation of the engine or simply a bug.

I think there might be a setting for that? I forget.

[TasAcri]

Is it possible to make an addon-mod that replaces the Super shotgun with the original one?

 

I never understood why they decided to change the original with that ugly KDIZD model.

[Altazimuth]

3 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

I think there might be a setting for that? I forget.

Correct. Options > Status Bar >  Single Key Display (set to no).