Doom but in Hexen... was this ever done?

[ludicrous_peridot]

I was listening to the KDiKDiZD music and suddenly imagined this - thrilling 3D game with jumping, flight, possibility to look up and down, hub-based puzzles and exploration, three playable characters with distinct weapons, a combinable superweapon, inventory collectible items, that has you slay endless hordes of demons ... on Phobos, Mars and in the very depths of Hell to stunning CD audio soundtrack.

I can't believe bringing Doom to Hexen engine has never been tried before... or has it?

 

EDIT: oh wait, why Mars - might as well travel to Tei Tenga, where looking for a commander's severed hand will help open door into the lab on a different level, and UAC scientists have developed an advanced quantum gizmo that turns the most fierce enemy into a cute bunny.... 

Edited November 12, 2022 by ludicrous_peridot

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

The hexen map format is available for doom mappers, actually. So if you're interested in hubs, and scripting, puzzles, and all that cool stuff, that exists for a good while, and yes, it's awesome. There are tons of maps made in that format. Either called hexen format or DiH (doom in hexen) - post title was probably a joke but that's what it's called. Gzdoom, and zandronum make all that possible.

Read more on the wiki https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Map_format#Hexen_map_format

 

I'm sure there's a handy list of gameplay mods with or without custom campaigns on the forums, have a look.

[smeghammer]

Here's one. I'm sure there are others too.

 

And this looks to be a HUB based Doom mapset (heard of it but not played it yet):

 

https://www.moddb.com/mods/elementalism/news/a-new-hud-and-a-new-hub

Edited November 12, 2022 by smeghammer

[ludicrous_peridot]

To give a slightly better idea of a type of Hexen mod I am talking about. 

 

 

[Technicolor]

16 hours ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

To give a slightly better idea of a type of Hexen mod I am talking about. 

 

 

 

I want Vanilla look of Doom weapons and enemies in Hexen.  They did it in Heretic. Why not in Hexen too?

Edited November 13, 2022 by Technicolor

[ludicrous_peridot]

5 hours ago, Technicolor said:

They did it in Heretic. Why not in Hexen too?

 

Apologies, who did what in Heretic?... Would you mind elaborating a bit?

[Technicolor]

19 minutes ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

 

Apologies, who did what in Heretic?... Would you mind elaborating a bit?

 

Megawad with Vanilla Doom 2 weapons and enemies in Heretic (5 episodes)

Edited November 13, 2022 by Technicolor

[ludicrous_peridot]

Would you mind sharing the link/name

[SMG_Man]

As far as a commercial game goes, I don't believe so. All of this is very doable in GZDoom as-is (and I've thought about making a similarly complex mod before); the trouble I ran into is that it's a massive undertaking for a single person to pull off.

[Technicolor]

12 hours ago, ludicrous_peridot said:

Would you mind sharing the link/name

 

Heretic for Doom 

 

 

[ludicrous_peridot]

Ok, this is something different though. With fraggle's tools you can convert Heretic maps into Doom compatible format and play them in Doom source port... so it's something kind of similar to Romero's Heresy. It does not bring Doom content into Heretic game engine.

[Technicolor]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:01 AM, ludicrous_peridot said:

Ok, this is something different though. With fraggle's tools you can convert Heretic maps into Doom compatible format and play them in Doom source port... so it's something kind of similar to Romero's Heresy. It does not bring Doom content into Heretic game engine.

 

There is no such thing as Heretic Engine. It is Doom Engine.

 

I would like to play Doom 2 in Hexen Maps the same way.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Technicolor

[CFWMagic]

16 hours ago, Technicolor said:

I would like to play Doom 2 in Hexen Maps the same way.

Currently, this is doable out of the box with GZDoom, but in a very awkward and broken way. I've experimented with it as a proof of concept, and here's what I ended up doing: Select Hexen as IWAD. Put DOOM2's IWAD into PWAD list, followed by re-adding Hexen's IWAD, this time as a PWAD. You'll want to then create a separate player class which is inherited from Doom 2's player class.

This will let you play as the marine through vanilla Hexen maps, with some very major problems. Some items and keys will be all foobared, you won't be able to use Hexen weapons as the Marine and you won't be finding any Doom 2 weapons in hexen maps either so you'll have to IDFA yourself the equipment if you want to do more than UV-Tyson, some triggers will simply refuse to work ... With time, effort and most importantly patience, you can copy all the necessary Doom 2 classes and sprites, while leaving behind the things that do break Hexen. I didn't bother with it because honestly, it's a monumental task and I'm lazy.

But yes, it's definitely doable out of the box for GZDoom, and might be doable in Skulltag so long as you add Skulltag_Actors.pk3 to it (untested, so I don't actually know). That said, I have absolutely no idea how you would go about this with something closer to vanilla doom engine.

EDIT: Ah yes, forgot to mention, in order to actually be able to hotkey the weapons, you'll need to edit KeyConf too, because putting Hexen's IWAD on top of Doom 2's will overwrite the keyconf meaning you won't be able to actually switch TO the Doom 2 weapons. Incidentally that's how you merge Hexen and Doom's arsenal, if you want to mix and match weapons.

But yes, it's a monumental task:

- First, you need to port everything that you want to use from doom, so sprites, weapons decorates and sounds at the bare minimum.
- Second, you need to make it all useable. Meaning adjusting keyconfig.
- Third, if you want to find Doom weapons and ammo, you'll need to do some Brutal Doom style spaghetti code where you put replacer classes instead of vanilla Hexen classes which will dynamically check the player class, and then either replace Hexen weapons/ammo or not based on that.
- Fourth, if you want the monsters, you'll have to do the same as above but for monsters. This is going to be more complicated too, because if there are any special monsters which do triggers (Like Doom's Keen and 666 tagged sectors for example) then you need to figure out what to replace them with and figure out if that won't break said triggers
- Fifth, you probably want to figure out a way for Hexen powerups to work on Doom weapons. Because Hexen has some special enemies which can't really be damaged by regular weapons, while Doom weapons weren't designed with the idea in mind at all. I've done something similar to the plasmagun for instance. But then you have many other problems, such as tomes of power having a very specific effect working for very specific weapons. Meaning, half of the items and powerups are going to become completely pointless unless you modify Doom 2 weapons to interact with those.

There's probably more to be done, but as said, I'm lazy, so I didn't really sit down and think this project through. As you can see, if you really want full playability, including with reasonable balance ... You'll have to do it all from scratch.

Edited November 18, 2022 by CFWMagic

[SMG_Man]

3 hours ago, Technicolor said:

There is no such thing as Heretic Engine. It is Doom Engine.

 

It is a meaningful distinction. Heretic's engine is based on the Doom engine, yes, but it differs in many ways (the player can fly, look up and down, there's an inventory system, more advanced items like the Tome of Power exist). Similarly with the Hexen and Strife engines - despite Doom being the progenitor, they are not directly interchangeable with each other. They all have their own unique properties and capabilities.

[TheSlipgateStudios]

What are you waiting for, modders? Get going!

[Ozcar]

pretty sure one of custom map in doom 64 has hexen map.