Can someone tell me how he does not get harmed by fires?

[Technicolor]

It looks like fires go through him without harming him from time to time.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Technicolor

[Zulk RS]

Uh... Time stamps? This is my personal opinion but I don't think most people are going to want to sit through a nearly 3 hour video to find the moments that you might be talking about.

[Sonikkumania]

You have to git gud. 

[Technicolor]

4 minutes ago, Sonikkumania said:

5 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

Uh... Time stamps? This is my personal opinion but I don't think most people are going to want to sit through a nearly 3 hour video to find the moments that you might be talking about.

 

A little bit of watching is enough. It happens many times.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Technicolor

[Technicolor]

5 minutes ago, Sonikkumania said:

You have to git gud. 

What do you mean?

[baja blast rd.]

The mancubus projectile is visually enormous but has the same true hitbox size as the small imp projectile (6-unit radius).

 

If it's something else, your visual intuition is probably not accurate yet; I didn't spot a single projectile that looked like it hit the player. It being a TAS might also tax that because the dodges can be narrower than an unassisted player would try. 

[Redneckerz]

33 minutes ago, Technicolor said:

 

A little bit of watching is enough. It happens many times.

What is a little bit? Is a timestamp really an issue?

[TimeOfDeath666]

[TAS] means it's not someone actually playing the map, so you can ignore the video.

[Dark Pulse]

44 minutes ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

[TAS] means it's not someone actually playing the map, so you can ignore the video.

This sort of take is steaming hot bullshit.

 

Yes, it's not a "live" play, and there's all sorts of stuff like RNG manipulation that can happen in a TAS, but often people put just as much time on a TAS as any normal run, possibly more.

 

That doesn't make it any less impressive - merely different.

[indigotyrian]

45 minutes ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

[TAS] means it's not someone actually playing the map, so you can ignore the video.

 

I think it's still a valid question.

[Nefelibeta]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

This sort of take is steaming hot bullshit.

 

Yes, it's not a "live" play, and there's all sorts of stuff like RNG manipulation that can happen in a TAS, but often people put just as much time on a TAS as any normal run, possibly more.

 

That doesn't make it any less impressive - merely different.

......He's being sarcastic.

[Lucius Wooding]

Doom's collision is kinda buggy if you haven't noticed. That and the hitbox/sprite being disjointed like Baja said. The mancubus fireballs are the biggest culprits but sometimes other projectiles or lost souls can clip through walls and the like.

[Dimon12321]

1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

Yes, it's not a "live" play, and there's all sorts of stuff like RNG manipulation that can happen in a TAS, but often people put just as much time on a TAS as any normal run, possibly more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool-assisted_speedrun
TAS is a speedrun which lets you use a set of tools which results in making a performance that a normal person cannot do. DSDA-Doom, the sourceport which was used to make this video, lets you slow down the time and save the game state multiple times. Basically, it's the same as making a movie: outtakes are all cut out and you can get the best result of what can possibly be done.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Dimon12321

[ViolentBeetle]

Are mancubus projectiles affected by fast monsters? They kinda look like they are, but I'm not sure.

There's certain limit to how fast projectiles could go before they sometimes clip through player, TAS would be able to trigger clipping effect repeatedly.

[banjiepixel]

7 minutes ago, ViolentBeetle said:

Are mancubus projectiles affected by fast monsters? They kinda look like they are, but I'm not sure.

There's certain limit to how fast projectiles could go before they sometimes clip through player, TAS would be able to trigger clipping effect repeatedly.

 

As far as I know, no. Only Imp, Cacodemon and Baron/Hell Knight projectiles, so basically just Doom 1 enemy projectiles are faster when fast monsters is turned on.

Edited November 19, 2022 by banjiepixel

[Doomkid]

1 hour ago, ViolentBeetle said:

Are mancubus projectiles affected by fast monsters? They kinda look like they are, but I'm not sure.

There's certain limit to how fast projectiles could go before they sometimes clip through player, TAS would be able to trigger clipping effect repeatedly.

 

Because of the way fireballs update their position each tic, it is technically possible for manc fireballs that theoretically should have clipped the outer edge of the player's hitbox to pass right through, though it would need to be on the outermost corner of the player's box, just a couple pixels of overlap really. I'm sure you know about it but just for other readers: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Mancubus_fireball_clipping

[ViolentBeetle]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

 

Because of the way fireballs update their position each tic, it is technically possible for manc fireballs that theoretically should have clipped the outer edge of the player's hitbox to pass right through, though it would need to be on the outermost corner of the player's box, just a couple pixels of overlap really. I'm sure you know about it but just for other readers: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Mancubus_fireball_clipping

Yeah, since I wasn't sure sure how fast manc fireball travels with fast monsters, I assumed it might be possible for it to pass through - I experienced this effect while trying to give a monster a very fast projectile. As you pointed out it'll probably be possible to clip through the corner of a player. It's naturally going to be more common with the wall lines since there's nothing behind it to stop it after it crosses.

[7Mahonin]

>TAS

[ImproversGaming]

I love this video as it shows what is theoretically possible.

@Technicolor I think I see your point but projecticles can get very close without actually hitting you. Have a try with a cyberdemon, I am often surprised by how little you actually need to move to dodge. I suspect that for monsters like the mancubus, the projectiles are visually larger than their collision box (but dont know).

Also for a TAS on a map of this type, where there are very large numbers of projecticles, the movements available to avoid a hit are small anyway. 

[TimeOfDeath666]

5 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

This sort of take is steaming hot bullshit.

lol ok, let's get Usain Bolt out of retirement to stitch together 100 perfect 1-meter segments and see how low he can push the 100m dash.

[Shepardus]

TAS doesn't change how the collision detection works, but I'm sure you already know that.

[Dark Pulse]

4 hours ago, Nefelibeta said:

......He's being sarcastic.

You sure about that? If he is, then I'll apologize, but based on this...

 

10 minutes ago, TimeOfDeath666 said:

lol ok, let's get Usain Bolt out of retirement to stitch together 100 perfect 1-meter segments and see how low he can push the 100m dash.

...I can't really tell if he's fine with TAS, or thinking that they're not "legit" in their own senses. My guess is the latter.

 

As for a response to this: Obviously that's not the same thing. Olympics are a live sport. You don't compare a TAS to live things, you compare them against other TASes. And obviously, you can't just rewind the world at will, which you'd need for a perfect TAS in the first place.

 

Try a better example. Like for example, how fast you can get down to clearing E1M1.

 

4 hours ago, Dimon12321 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool-assisted_speedrun
TAS is a speedrun which lets you use a set of tools which results in making a performance that a normal person cannot do. DSDA-Doom, the sourceport which was used to make this video, lets you slow down the time and save the game state multiple times. Basically, it's the same as making a movie: outtakes are all cut out and you can get the best result of what can possibly be done.

I'm well aware of what TAS runs are; been watching them since the late 2000s. It's just they haven't been in Doom until recently. So yes, I'm aware you can rewind states, step one frame at a time, manipulate RNG, etc.

 

That's why I'm saying they are a legitimate form of running the game unto themselves, while some people would argue since a TAS isn't done "live" (that is, it's not a run of playing the game "normally"), they somehow do not count.

 

They do - as long as they are clearly marked as a TAS, and judged alongside other TAS runs. Comparing them to a normal run is obviously unfair.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

DELETED

 

Spoiler

(I'm "tired" and read through the whole thread. When I came back twenty minutes later to respond, I thought you were asking why the Mancubus isn't harmed by fire? I had a real banger or whatever it's called of a joke too - I was going to tell you what a funny guy you are for asking why a demon can't be set on fire. Then I was going to ask you if you've ever met the Archvile. It was going to be hilarious, I swear! Now I'll just take the L or whatever it's called.)

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[LateToDOOM2020]

10 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

This sort of take is steaming hot bullshit.

 

Yes, it's not a "live" play, and there's all sorts of stuff like RNG manipulation that can happen in a TAS, but often people put just as much time on a TAS as any normal run, possibly more.

 

That doesn't make it any less impressive - merely different.

So you are saying its impressive because they have to plan every moment to dodge all the projectiles with perfect timing? That is pretty cool...😎


Edit: Are these maps really designed to be beaten by people playing with their keyboard! I cant imagine but I know you can exhaust the monsters by infighting. Wow never mind I watched more of the video

Edited November 20, 2022 by LateToDOOM2020
Second thoughts

[LadyMistDragon]

You see, it's quite simple. When Doomguy is under fire from more than 100 enemies and said fire reaches probably 50 feet of him, he goes into a trance that creates a divine shield. And in this trance, he is completely invulnerble to all fireball attacks that don't directly hit him because they lack the fine concentration of Arch-vile fire and Cyber rockets. Said fireballs are nothing but gnats to him. He is become like a god, albeit one that can still be taken by surprise.

Edited November 20, 2022 by LadyMistDragon

[Dark Pulse]

17 hours ago, LateToDOOM2020 said:

So you are saying its impressive because they have to plan every moment to dodge all the projectiles with perfect timing? That is pretty cool...😎

Precisely! The movements have to be planned, you may have to manipulate monsters into or out of position to prevent (or take, if it's beneficial) hits or to get the line you want to follow for your path, obviously revenant rockets fire tracers or not depending on an even-odd tic pattern, so you may have to manipulate that...

 

It takes a whole different sort of planning. It's not aiming to be a skill-based play - it's more about "How can you abuse the game to get it to do what you want in the fastest time possible?"

 

That's the whole appeal of TAS.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Dark Pulse

[Doomkid]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:12 AM, TimeOfDeath666 said:

lol ok, let's get Usain Bolt out of retirement to stitch together 100 perfect 1-meter segments and see how low he can push the 100m dash.

Movies are illegitimate acting because there’s multiple takes and scenes not worth watching are scrapped. Only play actors are legitimate actors - film actors are TASing pieces of garbage!

 

(Imagine comparing speedrunning a game to actual physically-intensive workouts like Usain Bolt does, fucking lol. I read some crater-brain takes on here sometimes but this one still has me giggling 10 minutes later!)

[Shepardus]

2 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Precisely! The movements have to be planned, you may have to manipulate monsters into or out of position to prevent (or take, if it's beneficial) hits or to get the line you want to follow for your path, obviously revenant rockets fire tracers or not depending on an even-odd tic pattern, so you may have to manipulate that...

 

It takes a whole different sort of planning. It's not aiming to be a skill-based play - it's more about "How can you abuse the game to get it to do what you want in the fastest time possible?"

 

That's the whole appeal of TAS.

I think you overestimate how much planning goes into a TAS like this; there are some TASes that are carefully manipulated frame by frame, but one like this would be done by simply playing through the game, maybe with slow motion, and rewinding whenever you take a hit, with no more planning than would go into a non-TAS play. ZM explains as much in the video description and comments.

[Dark Pulse]

52 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

I think you overestimate how much planning goes into a TAS like this; there are some TASes that are carefully manipulated frame by frame, but one like this would be done by simply playing through the game, maybe with slow motion, and rewinding whenever you take a hit, with no more planning than would go into a non-TAS play. ZM explains as much in the video description and comments.

Sure, but at that point you're also opening yourself up for someone to do it better if they do tricks you don't, which is my point.

[LateToDOOM2020]

6 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

It takes a whole different sort of planning. It's not aiming to be a skill-based play - it's more about "How can you abuse the game to get it to do what you want in the fastest time possible?"

 

That's the whole appeal of TAS.

I can see the appeal now. Even though its not a player in real time its amazing to see what 1 doom guy can do.

By the way did anyone see this part of the video?
Doom guy is able to lure many of the skeleton missiles and direct them in to the cyber demons taking both out in  one attack.
Its very cool I don't think I would see this outside of TAS.