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[Tactical Burger (Old acc)]

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Edited September 11, 2023 by Tactical Burger 69

[watto3699]

Mood.

 

You won't find a single person on this website who hasn't felt the same way at some point. I remember when I first started mapping, I seemed to believe everything had to be an arena with a gimmick and that straight hallways and corridors were the worst thing I could put in a level, but I eventually figured as long as the map serves the game play well, it doesn't matter.

 

I can suggest 2 (two) things; first, depending on your mapping ability, I'd say go off and figure out everything the editor and your mapping format of choice has to offer. I switched to using UDMF primarily because of your exact problem, things like 3D floor and the added linedef actions have inspired me to create maps I never thought were possible with my skill level.

Second would be to go back and play some other people's wads with a different perspective. Don't analyse specifically the layout of the map, but more subjectively, the parts of the map you find fun. If you find different enemy combinations fun to fight against, then it doesn't matter too much what the area you're fighting in looks like.
As long as the layout serves the game play well, it'll remain just as fun.
 

I hope this helps, I've been through many similar mapper's blocks in the past.

Edited November 21, 2022 by watto3699

[RDETalus]

I would say the number one source of ideas in my mapping is just typing in "XYZ + concept art" in google image search. Egyptian tomb concept art, catacombs concept art, control center concept art, etc... Then just find some pictures that look cool and make a map of it. 
 

1 hour ago, Tactical Burger 69 said:

1. I don't know what wads to get inspired from.

You could play the entire cacowards catalog, it at least gives you some sort of starting point and prevents you from wasting time playing ass wads. Cacowards covers a wide variety of mapping styles so you won't get boxed into slaughter maps or puzzle maps or adventure maps. If you like a particular wad, look up the author's other works and play those wads too.

 

1 hour ago, Tactical Burger 69 said:

When i do find something i just make a ripoff of it

There's nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other maps. This game's been around for decades, having a super duper unique map idea isn't expected anymore.

Edited November 21, 2022 by RDETalus

[Lucius Wooding]

Design around an experience, especially if you need a starting point. It can be gameplay first or built around an aesthetic but personally I like gameplay first.

 

If you make a map, try to start with a goal for how you want it to play.

-I want this to be an easy techbase map with nothing bigger than pinkies and no SSG.

-I want this to be a one room slaughter map where waves teleport in as you go.

-I want this to be an obnoxious 10 hour long key hunt with lots of incidental combat.

-I want this to be a spooky, atmospheric horror map that puts visuals first.

 

You could make a room or fight in this way too, like I had a cool fight in one of my maps based around giving the player a plasma, but in return it'd somewhat force them to panic at the trap and spam all the plasma immediately. That was my only concept at first but it took shape from there very naturally. It was a mid level fight and so could be approached with most weapons and varying amounts of health.

 

Spoiler

-I knew intuitively what monsters and what amount in general would be scary for a player holding a plasma with limited cells so I plopped down a bunch. Nothing heavier than Hell Knights, a couple cacos to eat up space, and some fodder like chaingunners and imps to let the player blast through them to make space. Some pinkies and spectres as well since they're in between. This meant the enemies would be a mix of meat walls and paths of least resistance, so you could really cut a path with plasma where you wanted to go but if heavies get in your way you'd take damage. I let the recommended weapon dictate it and tweaked things as needed, mainly adding more and more until it got very nasty.

 

-I wanted the threat to telegraph itself, so I put most of them on high platforms that lowered upon picking up the gun so you'd have a few seconds to react or shoot some rockets safely before they spilled out. Using turbo monster closets, pop ups, or teleporters will get the player's attention for sure but it felt dickish. It's not scary if your spine gets immediately torn out without knowing what even killed you, but giving the player a moment to contemplate how they fucked up is not only more fair, but also it frankly gives me a feeling of satisfaction knowing they're panicking.

 

-I decided it should be relatively cramped to prevent circle strafing, and I placed a sniping archvile and revenant to further incentivize using cover and restrict movement even more, punishing you for getting trapped or stuck. However the room was generally a figure 8 type of shape so it did encourage picking a good spot to avoid getting surrounded. The Archie also posed a dilemma in terms of target prioritization and really split the player's attention.

 

-I put an armor and soulsphere out in the open so the player could see and fight towards them easily and not die. There were a good amount of supplies in the room but it encouraged the player to keep moving and not camp, especially with limited cells.

 

-I placed a few extra cell packs in the darkness where a panicking player would be likely get them by accident; I also was a dick and placed a berserk along the wall so they'd be forced to switch to fist unexpectedly, but it was a great source of health as well. 

 

-I decided using a variety of monsters was best to promote a bit of chaos and take up space in a less predictable way. Some would infight but it was likely to make them block off more of the room compared to all of them just chasing you. However the majority wouldn't kill each other that much, just provide some momentary distraction.

 

-I made it so grabbing the plasma wasn't strictly required at first, you could pick off a couple deaf enemies hiding within and plunder a bit of health and ammo before picking it up and fighting, or take the slow lift out which also triggered the fight, but you get the key and trade the plasma for skipping that fight.

 

-I made it so that there was an escape teleporter slightly hidden since I wanted there to be a way out, however I decided I should punish the player for dipping in just for the plasma. Fleeing the fight (or taking the lift to the key) resulted in the archvile being released if you didn't clear him out first, and also takes away half your cover which makes it a nightmare. It gives the player an option if they really want the early plasma or to escape, but the intention of the fight was to use it on the spot.

 

 

I didn't intend it at first but things emerged from my starting point and I kept iterating on it. The IQ of the fight slowly went up and made it more interesting, but most importantly it turned out pretty much exactly how I intended in terms of an experience. Most of my fights weren't as complex necessarily, but the method the player used for each one and the order they chose caused them to play differently and made their decisions matter.

 

Plus since I put the result first, I knew whether a certain change was getting me closer to my goal or not. Using a compass instead of a map and all that.

[RataUnderground]

People often forguet the "sketching phase". Leave the PC, sit down on a table with a paper and a pencil, and let the ideas just flow. Draw a lot of rooms without thinking too much, and let that geometry inspire you. Later in the editor you'll have a lot of ideas to work.

[Deadwing]

19 minutes ago, RataUnderground said:

People often forguet the "sketching phase". Leave the PC, sit down on a table with a paper and a pencil, and let the ideas just flow. Draw a lot of rooms without thinking too much, and let that geometry inspire you. Later in the editor you'll have a lot of ideas to work.

 

This, it's a lot harder to open the editor and have to think into everything at once instead of already having some ideas ready in your mind (+sketches).

You'll be dealing with way too many problems at once and it'll be harder to come up with more interesting ideas.

 

Also, I would suggest starting with shorter maps (5 minutes maximum to finish), as it is easier to get a more consistent result and you can do a lot of maps quickly and envolve as a mapper faster.

[IcarusOfDaggers]

All above advice is solid. I was experiencibg mappers block myself just a few days ago, still am to an extent (I have a vision of annarea, but no way to approach making it).

 

Unlike previous posters, I like to play around with architecture more. As a result, sometimes all I need is to go outside for a few hours, or as has happened last week, few days. The experience outside makes your brain work on new issues. So when you get back to the drawing board and start drawing, you'll find yourself using a different approach. 

 

Overall, when I run in to mappers block, I do one of the following:

• Play different wads, preferably newbie ones (You'd be amazed what newbie wads can inspire you for)
• Play different games in totally different genre
• Read
• Go outside
• Do physical work instead, if I feel like not thinking. Woodwork, cooking, basically anything involving cutting or following guides
• Draw different random shapes, main goal is to avoid rectangles, triangles or circles. Those are hard shapes to use.
• Sometimes, mapping for a different game works (Command and Conquer being beginner friendly most of the time, not always.)
• Watch videos of people playing maps, there are youtubers here.

Edit: 

 

I also tinker around with one of these base layouts when neccessery. It works wonders. [Doom2 - Map layouts] 6 basic layouts I use to get over mapping blocks. Free for credited use. - WADs & Mods - Doomworld

Edited November 27, 2022 by IcarusOfDaggers

[Somniac]

I go through mapper's block all the time, occasionally broken by random spurts of "I know exactly what this should be". There are a few possible routes around this, but there's no magic bullet. What works for someone else is not guaranteed to work for you. 

 

Sketching your map first - I've tried this, and I'm not sure its for me. Mainly because I can't draw very well, but I can see why it works for some people. On the other hand, it might cause you to get too locked to the drawing, and might cause problems implementing a new idea you get while recreating the sketch. But on the other other hand, you've got a map layout and now you just need to draw it in the editor.

 

Another method is doing your map in the editor first, without texturing it, and just do the raw layout first. My head tells me this is the best way, but I suck at sticking to it. I get 75% of a layout roughed out, then I decide I want to start texturing and detailing as I go. As a result I have occasionally mapped myself into a corner and ended up not sure how to finish something. Right now I've been staring at a 75% complete map for a while, not sure what the final room should be and how to connect the rest to the exit. Its only a small map too. Infuriating!!!

 

It can be hard to get into that flow state where everything comes together. The more you think about it, the harder it becomes. If all else fails, take a break and only come back to it when you're ready.

 

Edit: I would add - don't be afraid to imitate. Part of my problem is I have an originality complex. I have to remind myself that its okay to reference other maps and ideas, as long as you're not outright copying bits of other maps.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Somniac

[Stabbey]

The best idea to get ideas for creating maps is to play more maps.

 

For instance, I was playing Ancient Aliens, and there was a trap which first teleported some barrels onto platforms, then released a bunch of weak monsters, followed by moderate monsters. The trick is that blowing up the barrels allowed Arch-Viles to then teleport onto the now-cleared platform. Do I have anywhere in particular to use that trick in mind - no, but knowing that it exists opens up more options for future traps. In fact, just now, I've got an idea of a part where a bunch of barrels blocks a switch. I blow them up and a single Arch-Vile teleports in. That's the demonstration. Pressing the switch opens up parts of the room and there are more barrels in certain parts, so now the player has been informed what happens if barrels get blown up here. No one is going to really care that I used that same basic premise because it's a different trap, the room has a different layout, and it looks different.

 

 

As for sketching, it's a good idea. You don't need to be a good artist to do the kind of sketching you need to do for creating maps, all you need to do at the sketching stage is draw basic simple shapes, the rough layouts of rooms. I personally think that detailing rooms should be the last thing you do, after playtesting the map to make sure it plays how you envisioned. A map which doesn't play well is going to be a negative experience no matter how nicely detailed it is.

[CatWithAComputer]

4 hours ago, IcarusOfDaggers said:

• Watch videos of people playing maps, there are youtubers here.

I recommend you these youtubers: Biodegradable, Doomkid and RataUnderground

[RataUnderground]

Lol, me? 
Okay, but there is only silent gameplays and some tutorials in spanish in my chanel xD

[Thelokk]

My two cents: join community projects, especially those with mandatory respacks / rules / very stringent requirements. 

As a career creative, I can testify that inspiration and creativity more often than not thrive on rules and restrictions. The more constrained you are, the easier it is to come up with ideas. Having some sort of externally enforced deadline really helps too. 

[yakfak]

i'd say don't surround yrself with other people's work. a little time in yr own thoughts with nothing to compare yr work against can prompt you to fill in the gaps with something more personal. too much saturation can make you think, "what's left to do that hasn't been done?" and can disincentivize as well as inspire

[ZOMILE]

Make a very large puzzle, or a slaughter room helps. and if all else fails, then just draw a dick like most people out of ideas do. i used to make very low tech maps and very bad slaughter maps and i specialized in slaughter rooms, dont put more than 5 barons in one room unless a bfg is present, dont put more than 10 hell knights unless rocket is present.

[IcarusOfDaggers]

2 hours ago, CatWithAComputer said:

I recommend you these youtubers: Biodegradable, Doomkid and RataUnderground

Counteroffer:

Decino (Analysis videos, yellow background and gameplay videos)

 

Biodegradable

Clippy Clippington (AKA Clippy)

DavidXNewton( AKA DavidN)

Nightmare2989

Lippeth

Me :D (Shameless self plug)

 

Any person responding to the maps you create, Including, but not limited RataUnderground, fai and more.

 

Modding and tutorials

 

Chubzdoomer

Bridgeburner

Doomkid

Lazygamer

 

=============

 

3 hours ago, Stabbey said:

I personally think that detailing rooms should be the last thing you do, after playtesting the map to make sure it plays how you envisioned. A map which doesn't play well is going to be a negative experience no matter how nicely detailed it is.

 

I like to detail while designing combat, because the details can affect the combat quite a bit. Especially, when you use detailing to camoflauge the enemy. For example Imps can be hidden in dark brown textures, spectres in dark corners. Hell knights and pinkies camo into the different skins well, lost souls can be hidden in DBBrain, especially in GZDooms dynamic lights.

 

Zombies also have different textures they thrive in.

Edited November 21, 2022 by IcarusOfDaggers

[Stabbey]

Quote

I like to detail while designing combat, because the details can affect the combat quite a bit. Especially, when you use detailing to camoflauge the enemy. For example Imps can be hidden in dark brown textures, spectres in dark corners. Hell knights and pinkies camo into the different skins well, lost souls can be hidden in DBBrain, especially in GZDooms dynamic lights.

 

Zombies also have different textures they thrive in.

 

That only applies if you're very specifically aiming for camouflage as a key combat element, which feels like it's very niche. That kind of refinement of the combat is something which should be coming in at a later time. To be clear, the only reason why I'm suggesting playtest first and detail later is simply because if the basic architecture isn't working how you want, it's easier to change it if you haven't already filled it full of small details which only serve to make it look pretty.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Stabbey

[MFG38]

Inspiration is one of those things you can't force. Something I've learned the hard way.

[InfernalMonsoon]

My advice whenever I want to make a map is don't force it. Rather take the time to look into things you enjoy, whether it be media, hobbies, your experiences, the real world around you, etc and keep those things in mind. Take one or two ideas and then roll with that idea as far as you feel it should go. It's a good idea to also take ideas from other game levels or perhaps places you've been before in life for an idea of how you want to design your level, what motif you want to go for, etc. Perhaps drawing a rough sketch of how you want your map to be designed would help a lot and maybe writing down some notes on what themes, texturing, encounter ideas you might have and then take the plunge when you feel an idea has fully formed in your noggin.

 

That's how I do my maps, it's a good way to make the full experience of each map you make feel consistent all throughout the development and play testing processes and to keep you motivated when you have that clear pre-meditated idea in mind.

 

Hope this helps!

[erkyp3rky]

whats that saying? great artists borrow? i know ive butchered the quote, but the idea reigns true. play some wads and if you see some cool environments, do your own spin on them!

[Dreamskull]

You don't need any ideas to make your own Doom maps out the gate. Think of parameters and rules, shapes and geometry instead. Things flow outward from that concept. Its got to be open ended at first. Your entire premise could change half way through. Fixing architecture and expanding on something simple is how you go about it. In the end, your original idea might not even really fit the polish you give it.

[Bridgeburner56]

I did a podcast episode on creativity and inspiration. Might help
 

 

[Stabbey]

Way, way back, it wasn't a common thing to be able to change the name of the map on the map screen. So when I was thinking of making maps for Doom 2, I was trying to think of custom maps which would still fit the theme of the original name for that map slot.

 

So for the megawad I was planning to make, Entryway was literally going to be the front entrance of the starport. Underhalls was going to have a section of hallway which went underneath a raised part of the map. The Gantlet became "Cyberdemon Gauntlet", where you needed to pass through a gauntlet of 8 quiet cyberdemons facing away from you. "The Focus" was going to be have all the keys in one room and all the key switches in one room, and both the entrance and exit off of that one large room which the player would need to return to repeatedly.

 

The Waste Tunnels became Nukage Treatment Pools, my attempt at making a waste tunnels level which was not a sewer level. "The Crusher" became "Dead in Five Minutes," a map where the player is stuck in a giant crusher for five minutes. And so on, and so forth.

 

If you're stuck for ideas, you can always look at the names of the IWAD maps and see if those names provoke any creativity. What about TNT's "Human BBQ" as a map full of lava to wade through, for instance?

[SiMpLeToNiUm]

6 hours ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

I did a podcast episode on creativity and inspiration. Might help
 

 

Oh hey it's me a good while ago, haha! Lots of good stuff in that video! Update: if you find yourself struggling for ideas, perhaps you aren't allowing yourself to fail? Failure can stop us from attempting things because they aren't "good enough" or have been "done before." So what? Try the first thing that comes to your head and allow yourself to fail fast! That way you can get the ball rolling, which is much more important to creativity than the "perfect" idea!

Edited November 26, 2022 by SiMpLeToNiUm

[IcarusOfDaggers]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:19 AM, Stabbey said:

 

If you're stuck for ideas, you can always look at the names of the IWAD maps and see if those names provoke any creativity. What about TNT's "Human BBQ" as a map full of lava to wade through, for instance?

Or a map full of torches underneath twitching victims, gutted victims and well...all the other decorations. takes some ceiling and floor jerrymandering though