Cacowards 2023 Mentionation Thread: You Don't Need To Post Myhouse Again

[xScavengerWolfx]

10 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Not really, to be honest. I think the people looking at this thread are here to look at Doom maps. There's plenty of other places to talk about gun violence. We all know nothing good comes out of these conversations here. I don't think we need a long argument revolving around technical details regarding children being killed with guns in a Cacowards Nomination thread.

 

No disrespect towards anybody intended.

I agree with this statement

[kevansevans]

Let's not gloss over the point Steve was trying to make, in that (with the context now provided) as technically impressive as Ishmo's Quest is, it hits several sour notes for being a bit politically tone deaf. While I can't speak on this being intentional, as I will concede to the point the creator is not from the USA, any recognition this mod deserves may need a massive asterisk and a shaker of salt for its themes.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

6 minutes ago, kevansevans said:

Let's not gloss over the point Steve was trying to make, in that (with the context now provided) as technically impressive as Ishmo's Quest is, it hits several sour notes for being a bit politically tone deaf. While I can't speak on this being intentional, as I will concede to the point the creator is not from the USA, any recognition this mod deserves may need a massive asterisk and a shaker of salt for its themes.

So put the asterisk next to the wad and call it a day, having a drawn-out discussion about it solves nothing and only leads to another worthless argument about politics. There's a difference between talking about the politics in the wad and using the wad as an excuse to talk about politics, which is what will happen.

[Ash4ash]

RAMP 2023

[Scuba Steve]

Since it's going to continue, might as well transfer the start of the discussion and all subsequent posts into the Ismo thread. Cultural differences leading to disparate impressions of a work of art, particularly the subject of gun violence and children, is worth having.

[Captain Keen]

Two quick things:

 

1) add me as another vote for Boomer, great stuff!

 

2) temporarily derailed or not, I actually have to say that’s the most polite debate I think I’ve ever seen online about gun violence. Probably helps that not all the posters here are American. I have not played that wad because I hadn’t heard of it until now, but it does look interesting. With that said, I get how weird tonal shifts can sometimes steal your enjoyment of something.

[ebrl]

4 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Not really, to be honest. I think the people looking at this thread are here to look at Doom maps. There's plenty of other places to talk about gun violence. We all know nothing good comes out of these conversations here. I don't think we need a long argument revolving around technical details regarding children being killed with guns in a Cacowards Nomination thread.

 

No disrespect towards anybody intended.

It's absolutely worth derailing because outside of gaming communities Doom has, at least historically, the strongest association with gun violence among video games, ever, and it's not even close. If anyone doesn't remember what I'm talking about: it's Columbine. It doesn't matter that it is absolutely unfair or entirely unjustified; it is what it is. It also doesn't really matter, for the sake of whether to dismiss this discussion completely or not, that there might be no ill intent at all in this new wad; the last thing the Doom community needs is to willingly draw this kind of attention to it by celebrating what seems to be, at the very least, an extremely tone deaf piece.

 

And for the record, I'm only giving it the benefit of the doubt because I haven't played it; you don't need to be an American, or even in a "developed country", to be horrified at the kind of gun violence it seems to be alluding to.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

17 minutes ago, ebrl said:

It's absolutely worth derailing because outside of gaming communities Doom has, at least historically, the strongest association with gun violence among video games, ever, and it's not even close. If anyone doesn't remember what I'm talking about: it's Columbine. It doesn't matter that it is absolutely unfair or entirely unjustified; it is what it is. It also doesn't really matter, for the sake of whether to dismiss this discussion completely or not, that there might be no ill intent at all in this new wad; the last thing the Doom community needs is to willingly draw this kind of attention to it by celebrating what seems to be, at the very least, an extremely tone deaf piece.

 

And for the record, I'm only giving it the benefit of the doubt because I haven't played it; you don't need to be an American, or even in a "developed country", to be horrified at the kind of gun violence it seems to be alluding to.

This is the "Cacowards Nomination Thread". If people want to discuss this, they should do it in the relevant thread (the wad itself), or create a new thread. But, in reality, if a member was to create a thread about gun violence and DOOM, it wouldn't last a day in the sun. It's the same outcome every time: civil discussion>flame>locked thread. There's never any actual "discussion" about these things because unfortunately people cannot conduct themselves in a civil manner. We don't typically discuss Columbine or Eric Harris and his nutjob friends because the community would do well to distance itself from that. Nobody forgot about it. Now, Scube requested the conversation to be moved to the relevant thread, and that's the best thing to do if people want to talk about this. Either way, I highly doubt this wad, regardless of its content, is going to "draw attention" from anyone other than some curious members here.

 

I apologize if it sounds like I'm being short with you, I was writing a longer reply but my phone died and I lost it.

[ebrl]

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

There's never any actual "discussion" about these things because unfortunately people cannot conduct themselves in a civil manner.

Now you'll excuse me for what you might see as a double derail - which I'll entertain anyway, because I'm sure this will all be moved to a more appropriate place - but that's more of a problem with people (specifically people that have interest in seeing these discussions go nowhere) than a problem with the merits of the discussion itself. Fair point tho and I don't envy anyone in charge.

 

But, in case I didn't make myself clear: when I said I'm "giving the benefit of the doubt" to the wad, I didn't mean the merits of it being nominated. I absolutely think it shouldn't receive a cacoward, based on Scuba's rather unambiguous description. I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt on it being purposefully in poor taste, or maybe even worse than that. That's why I think the original "derail" was warranted: I see it starting specifically as a discussion about whether that kind of content can be glossed over and eventually enshrined, even if just as an accessory to something that is being celebrated for entirely unrelated reasons. The "plenty of other places to talk about gun violence" never solved the gun problem, there's no illusion that it'll be solved here, but there's absolutely room to talk about the optics of suggesting a cacoward to a wad where you can shoot your brother. The actual derail was dasho "refusing to believe" in facts that are not only common knowledge but also well documented, prompting Scuba to dive into the more beaten aspect of bringing up statistics everyone is (or should be) familiar with; unfortunately, that kind of gratuitous, erroneous dismissal is the kind thing that has to be called out wherever it pops up, as is his doubling down over some nitpicking about what qualifies someone as an adult in the USA. It's one of the one million or so little pieces of this macabre puzzle that got you (generic "you" to all Americans out there) this deep into that problem; good luck solving it, I guess.

 

So, there you go. I even named some names I tried to avoid naming the first time. dasho, don't take it as a personal attack; I really don't think you had ill intent, but for the love of god you have to do better than that, and I'll get mushroomman (and others) even more frustrated by sneaking this in at the last moment but if you can't legally buy a beer are you really even an adult, they probably just want to throw the 18 year olds in the coal mines without requiring written permission from their parents or something

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

@ebrl It's fine man, I understand what you're saying. I think that discussing things that are relevant to the wad, including the political aspects of it, is completely fine. It's part of the project after all. I just don't want to see this thread spiral out of control into a political discussion. I'm not understanding if you're referring to me when you mention "people who have interest in seeing the conversation go nowhere" but I don't feel that way. If people want to talk about it, I have no reason to want to stop them. I just think it should be contained within the thread where the wad was posted. By having a conversation like that in this thread, it kind of takes away attention from other projects, and it just kills the good spirit of the thread. If the conversation is happening in the other thread, at least people know what they're getting into. There's no hard feelings and I'm not frustrated with anyone, sorry if it seemed like I was talking down to you. The first reply I typed out was more personable, but I lost it.

 

On a lighter note, about the age thing (since it's weird and you don't live in America): It's hard to say what really qualifies someone as an "adult" here: you can't drink until 21, but you can join the military at 18. You used to be able to buy cigarettes at 18, but they changed that to 21 not too long ago, and the gambling age is 18. The age of consent varies by state. It's all a little silly.

[Ravendesk]

2 hours ago, ebrl said:

I absolutely think it shouldn't receive a cacoward, based on Scuba's rather unambiguous description.

Not sure it's a good idea to use this thread to assert that something should not receive a cacoward.

[Mr Masker]

1 minute ago, Ravendesk said:

Not sure it's a good idea to use this thread to assert that something should not receive a cacoward.

Cacoawards 2023 Disapproval Thread: You NEED To Post Myhouse Again

[ebrl]

41 minutes ago, Ravendesk said:

Not sure it's a good idea to use this thread to assert that something should not receive a cacoward.

You know what, you're absolutely right. For the sake of full disclosure: I'm not going to pretend I disagree with myself now, or go on some lame excuse as to why I said it out loud, but I do regret bringing that up in here.

[Serathis]

Insanity's Edge. Oh boy, visually stunning, neat combat encounters and great atmosphere on map 3.

Also Lost Civ 2. A huge departure from LC1 but it still is quite something. One of those maps where you just stare at the screen after a particular section.

[Swedra]

Has anyone mentioned Relighting by HeyDoomer? https://www.moddb.com/mods/relighting

 

And if Relighting for some reason is invalid, Id give DoomRunner my vote.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Swedra

[Redneckerz]

@deathz0r

and also iddq_tea and Never_Again for a Archaeology award for covering what is 100s of Usenet posts to highlight the earliest days of Doom and the editing history that came with it, along with the earliest (modified id) levels that were available back then.

 

Some of the stuff in here is like going into a timecapsule and finding out that ORIGWAD had a lot of forefathers. Amazing amount of work on display here.

[MtPain27]

I just recently became a fan of this megawad by @TheMightyWhoosh. Like Myolden's Nostalgia from last year, it hearkens back to a simpler time in Dooming, and it was one of the most stress-free and comfortable playthroughs of my 2023. I can tell Whoosh is a big TNT fan (takes one to know one), because maps like 06, 18, and 27 get closer to evoking that Doom-95-weird feeling than most maps in TNT's unofficial sequels. If you play it, I encourage you to stick it out till the last episode, because Whoosh catches fire from maps 22 to 27: that stretch has some of the best looking and best playing stuff I've seen from him. Also, having played Kinda, I can say that this set is much kind-er to pistol starters, which I really appreciated :) Way to go, MightyWhoosh!

 

 

[JonExMachina]

+1 to this beautiful, blissful megawad

 

[Untamed64]

+1 to The thing you can't defeat, taking a horror that has plagued many and introducing it to the world of Doom

+1 to Doom Infinite, an up and coming mod that gives Doom a roguelike spin.

I've been sinking many hours into this, I just can't stop

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=78061

Edited September 22, 2023 by Untamed64

[eltiolavara9]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:18 AM, Jay Two said:

This is so cool and terribly underrated.

i played it immediately when i saw it was anotak and wasnt dissapointed, nominating this one as well

[jmac]

Wonder Wheel deserves more attention. Very unique visuals, and great gameplay.

[Kwisior]

I didn't even beat it, but from what I played, it's very good and Cacoward material, or at least worth a mention at the Cacowards.

 

Very chill and enjoyable mapset featuring one of my favorite themes - ancient Egypt! Deserves a mention as well.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Kwisior

[Firedust]

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=78218

 

Doom 2: Venturous for runner up / silver award.

 

A tomb raider / indiana jones inspired partial conversion for Doom 2, fun stuff!

[netcurse2000]

 

[bioshockfan90]

Quick shoutout to this fun little 3-map Plutonia thing that I doubt had very many eyes on it. Same goes for this and this.

 

All either 1 map or just a few, but all quality and fun, worth a shoutout in some section of the 'wards IMO. 

 

[Master O]

I agree with @Kwisior regarding:

 

[Track Federal]

+1 for The Lost Magic, good wad that can be passed in one evening, regular change of setting and a variety of combat kept me so much that I went through the whole wad in one breath. I also liked the way the themes of realism and fantasy are combined here

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Track Federal

[DoomGappy]

I know this may be pretty niche, but I'm going to recommend it anyway, El Chavo del Doom by @The Royal We, a homage to Brazilian and mexican culture, as well as the author's grandfather. It has been published in Ramp 2023.

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2669448

 

Here is a video of me playing it. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by jo2ukegappy

[El Inferno]

Grindfest

 

Got back to playing this one recently (on map26 now i think), goes really well before sleep

[Kaapeli47]

+1 for Samsara Reincarnation. Whether it would be for a gameplay mod award or multiplayer award, that's up to the jury. It's a mod that works both in Zandronum and GZDoom but is majorly played in Zandronum multiplayer. Version 2.0, which released a few days ago, has been one of the most anticipated multiplayer Doom releases this year, and it has definitely been worth the wait! It has such a dedicated development team behind it who have all put a tremendous amount of work to it!