Final Doom TNT Evilution: cut map entries

[Wadmodder Shalton]

We probably all know about Final Doom's episodes TNT Evilution and The Plutonia Experiment, both being official id Software project done by members of TeamTNT for the former, and the Casali brothers for the latter. We also understand the infamous controversial commercialization of TNT Evilution back in 1995 which caused uproar on Doom usenet groups at the time.

 

However while TNT Evilution has had two different releases with the first being the one with the bugged MAP31 and the second being the rare id Anthology version, four maps from both Dario and Milo Casali, and many other TeamTNT members were planned to be included with TNT, but were rejected due to being too large to run on the computers of the day. The 32 levels of Plutonia on the other hand was officially the final revisions without any changes made post-launch, except for adding deathmatch spawns on maps 12 and 23.

 

As far as we know, the only cut map from TNT Evilution that has resurfaced is No Mercy which was planned to be MAP30 at one point in development.

As far as what the other three maps were, we will never know for sure. Given that recently @DCasali supposedly left Valve a few days ago, unless he has any ideas what these maps would've been, any surviving material is likely lost to time.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Wadmodder Shalton

[SiFi270]

Datasquid claims to have been one, and the wiki does indeed list its author as an official member of TeamTNT, so I don't see much reason to doubt it. It's DM only though.

Edited December 23, 2022 by SiFi270

[Rudolph]

Oooh, nice! I am a sucker for "lost" Doom maps.

 

Why does the map use an Aubrey Hodges track, however? Is it because it lacks a .mus file?

[Dark Pulse]

23 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Oooh, nice! I am a sucker for "lost" Doom maps.

 

Why does the map use an Aubrey Hodges track, however? Is it because it lacks a .mus file?

It was simply recorded with the PSX music and sound effects loaded. You can tell based on the very beginning of the video.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Dark Pulse

[Wadmodder Shalton]

These cut maps should probably be mentioned on the DoomWiki's TNT Evilution in the article, in the development section that is.

[Faceman2000]

When crap like Habitat made the cut it’s hard to imagine many maps got cut.

[Bob9001]

I can see why No Mercy got cut. But I to have wondered what some of the other maps are that were cut for other reasons than above.

[Faceman2000]

We know the other Casali maps were cut because other members of TNT weren’t happy with how overrepresented the Casalis were. They took the cut maps to id and offered them as a second project and that turned into Plutonia. IIRC Dario confirmed there weren’t any unreleased TNT maps of theirs.

[Rudolph]

4 minutes ago, Bob9001 said:

I can see why No Mercy got cut.

I do not know, I like what I am seeing. At the very least, it looks like a considerable improvement over Doom II's Icon of Sin map.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

Doesn't look like a terrible IoS map, but it's an IoS map so it's terrible. 99% of IoS maps are unoriginal ripoffs of a "boss" fight that was mediocre and anticlimactic to begin with, and this one looks no different. IoS maps are a great example of "id did it, so we have to do it too". The appeal of a custom map is that it's supposed to be original content. The "IoS finale" is the one trend I wish would go away. It rarely feels genuine, even in good wads. There are so many other ways you can end a mapset. Even good IoS maps are less satisfying than most maps in general. Sorry, a boss that consists of an ugly texture on a wall is never going to be really cool. id had a habit of crappy ending maps - DOOM e3, DOOM 2, DOOM 3+ROE, and let's not forget the wonderful Shub Niggurath. Hell, even Plutonia and TNT had less than stellar endings in my opinion.

Edited December 24, 2022 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Bob9001]

59 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I do not know, I like what I am seeing. At the very least, it looks like a considerable improvement over Doom II's Icon of Sin map.

I consider Plutonia and TNT to have 'good' Map 30's. But yes you're right anything is an improvement over Doom 2.

[mrthejoshmon]

On 12/23/2022 at 4:40 PM, Rudolph said:

Why does the map use an Aubrey Hodges track, however? Is it because it lacks a .mus file?

Sorry, that's because my ZDoom auto-loads PSX sounds and music by default.

[Rudolph]

6 minutes ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Sorry, that's because my ZDoom auto-loads PSX sounds and music by default.

Good choice! ;)

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Perhaps former TeamTNT members that are here on Doomworld have some ideas regarding the cut map entries for TNT Evilution.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Wadmodder Shalton

[Faceman2000]

I could be mistaken, but I think the only TNT member who was on team back then that’s kinda around is Dario Casali, and he of course only makes occasional appearances. @Soundblock is around, but I don’t know if he was on the team back then - at the very least he’s not credited as having contributed to Evilution.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Faceman2000

[Maximum Matt]

On 12/25/2022 at 3:27 AM, Faceman2000 said:

We know the other Casali maps were cut because other members of TNT weren’t happy with how overrepresented the Casalis were. They took the cut maps to id and offered them as a second project and that turned into Plutonia.

Hunted could've slotted into TNT quite well, come to think of it

On 12/25/2022 at 4:02 AM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

99% of IoS maps are unoriginal ripoffs of a "boss" fight that was mediocre and anticlimactic to begin with

The only decent IoS map is Viper from Memento Mori I.  

On 12/25/2022 at 4:02 AM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

let's not forget the wonderful Shub Niggurath.

Lol, the thing doesn't even attack you!!

[ReaperAA]

8 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

The only decent IoS map is Viper from Memento Mori I.

 

Nah. It's one of the better ones out there, but it is still... meh. Personally speaking, the best (and the only IoS map I truly liked) is Malignata from TNT: Revilution

[pcorf]

16 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

 

Nah. It's one of the better ones out there, but it is still... meh. Personally speaking, the best (and the only IoS map I truly liked) is Malignata from TNT: Revilution

 

I tried to make Zone 400's IOS map unique, lots of run and gun in order to get the keys during the mad scramble to the IOS. Then you blast it to oblivion hoping no floating terrors ruin your plans.

[Andromeda]

On 12/25/2022 at 10:14 PM, Faceman2000 said:

I could be mistaken, but I think the only TNT member who was on team back then that’s kinda around is Dario Casali, and he of course only makes occasional appearances. @Soundblock is around, but I don’t know if he was on the team back then - at the very least he’s not credited as having contributed to Evilution.

Yeah I believe Dario's the only one who's around in the community from those that worked on TNT. Mark Snell is also around on YouTube, but his memory seems really foggy from those days (can't blame him, it's been almost 30 years!).

[Faceman2000]

I found Chris Buteau, author of Habitat, on LinkedIn. I might reach out to him and see if he responds haha!

[LadyMistDragon]

14 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

I found Chris Buteau, author of Habitat, on LinkedIn. I might reach out to him and see if he responds haha!

I think the one everyone really wants to hear from is Drake O'Brien.D:)

[Thelokk]

18 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Yeah I believe Dario's the only one who's around in the community from those that worked on TNT. Mark Snell is also around on YouTube, but his memory seems really foggy from those days (can't blame him, it's been almost 30 years!).

 

Mark has also become rather erratic in his tech tips uploads, wich is a shame. I actually followed him before I even knew he made Doom maps.

[Faceman2000]

1 hour ago, LadyMistDragon said:

I think the one everyone really wants to hear from is Drake O'Brien.D:)

I haven't been able to find him, unfortunately. There is a Drake O'Brien from the correct area on LinkedIn, but he seems too young to be the right guy. . .