The DWmegawad Club plays: Community Chest 2

dobu gabu maru · December 31, 2022

What is the DWmegawad Club?

This is a place where we settle down, have a cup of tea (or drink of your choice) and take a month to play through a megawad on our own, together! Any keen observations, criticisms, or frustrated ranting about it goes here in the discussion. As long as you want to say something about what you've played, feel free to speak your mind.

Can I join?

Sure. The only rule is that you have to play at least some of the levels in our monthly megawad to contribute, but you're generally encouraged to finish the whole thing, even if you've played it before.

What levels am I allowed to post about?

Whatever day of the month it is, is the upper limit for the map you can post on. So if it’s the 6th, you may discuss up to MAP06.

Do I have to post an entry every day?

Nope, not at all. This is only for our more enthusiastic members. As long as you play through it with us you’re part of the club.

When do we vote on the next month’s megawad?

Voting begins on the 25th of the current month. Remember to add one “+++” before your vote to make it easier to count. For example:

+++ Ultimate Doom

Note that you can vote for up to three separate nominations in a single month, and every wad must contain at least three maps each. The winning nomination must receive at least four votes for a thread to be made. Ties will be decided by RNG.

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>>>DOWNLOAD COMMUNITY CHEST 2 HERE<<<

Let’s start the new year off by looking back at one of 2004’s classic cacoward winners! Community Chest 2 is the sequel to the original Community Chest—and like the original, it has its own share of ups and downs! Was it a worthy successor to the original CC, or did it need more time in the oven? Let’s find out!

Author & Maplist:

MAP01 - “The Furnace” by Erik Alm

MAP02 - “Coolant Platform” by iori

MAP03 - “Slige Control” by The Flange Peddler

MAP04 - “Deja Vu” by Gene Bird

MAP05 - “Elixir” by RjY

MAP06 - “The View” by Lutrov71

MAP07 - “To Hell and Back” by The Flange Peddler

MAP08 - “The Pit” by Gene Bird

MAP09 - “The Transformer” by Graf Zahl

MAP10 - “Intermission” by Volteface

MAP11 - “Beyond Pain” by Exl

MAP12 - “Redemption” by Gene Bird

MAP13 - “Annihilation Invention” by psyren

MAP14 - “Shadow of Evil” by Mephisto

MAP15 - “City Heat” by The Ultimate DooMer

MAP31 - “Ideé Fixe” by Sarge Baldy

MAP32 - “Sodding Death” by chopkinsca

MAP16 - “Spirit World HQ” by Gene Bird

MAP17 - “Through the Black” by Andy Leaver

MAP18 - “Internal Reaches 3” by Kaiser

MAP19 - “The Marbelous Three” by Hirogen2

MAP20 - “Enigma” by The Flange Peddler

MAP21 - “Undead Nation” by Draconio

MAP22 - “Thematic Elements” by Lutrov71, Jimi

MAP23 - “Death Mountain” by Cyber-Menace

MAP24 - “The Mucus Flow” by B.P.R.D

MAP25 - “Desecration” by Gene Bird

MAP26 - “Geist Halls” by Dr. Zin

MAP27 - “Gethsemane” by Use3D

MAP28 - “No Room” by Linguica

MAP29 - “Event Horizon” by Boris Iwanski

MAP30 - “In Threes” by Cyb

BONUS CONTENT

Doomwiki

DSDA

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OLD THREADS

Spoiler

The DWmegawad Club Metathread

2012

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Edited April 23, 2023 by dobu gabu maru

LadyMistDragon · December 31, 2022

Oh no.....don't expect me to be posting on even 10 of these maps because it just won't be worth it. I need to get a ahead at least a little bit though.

All maps are from pistol start

Map 01: The Furnace

by Erik Alm

Erik Alm was perhaps the best person to contribute an opener to Community Chest II. Looks a little like an early Scythe map, but it's short, effective, and to the point. I don't know what connection the fire in the northwest has to the fiery basement where you fight off Hell Knights in some nasty close quarters, but it's the perfect excapsulation of Erik's philosophy: to the point, strongly-detailed, and always ready to give you a jump, even a small one.

Map 02: Coolant Platform

by Trevor @iori Primmett

Mt. Pain crapped on this map a little bit but honestly, this is vintage iori. Finely-detailed while being just abstract enough to work as a playable level. Although the linedef action to grab the opening shotgun doesn't seem to work on DSDA Doom, so it's impossible to get out. But anyways, I really appreciate the character that goes into Trevor maps, as well as the constant flow of combat: read, the series of traps in the opening sections. Although, where the hell's the rocket launcher? I found two secrets that allowed access to rockets but nope!

One of the most understated bits is the rotating silver light right before a lift. Understated, yet quite brillant at the same time. Next to that, the best looking area is probably the large slime room.

At least one secret was quite a bit of trouble: the slime passageway which seems to only open if you cross into the next room where you might not hear when enemies happen to be bearing down. Speaking of, the Baron of Hell may have been a touch obligatory, but it's fine.

The showdown in the courtyard was probably the highlight, as far as that goes, (but I still never found a rocket launcher).

Thelokk · December 31, 2022

Alrighty, I'm hopping onboard for this one, as I am a rather big Community Chests enthusiast, and take Two happens to have maps by some of my favorite mappers (Erik Alm, Gene Bird and B.P.R.D.).

MAP01: The Furnace by Erik Alm (DSDA, UV, 100% kills and monsters)

I agree with @LadyMistDragon that Erik Alm, at their most Scythe-ish, is a perfect fit for an opener, certainly a more fitting map than the opener for CC1 and 3. The map is compact, does not go overboard with excessively wild texturing choices (like many Scythe maps, supports and green bricks do the heavy lifting) and progression is dynamic yet rather simple - if one wanted to be super picky I could say that the 'jump into the furnace' could have been better telegraphed, but still not that big of a deal. The secret is sort of a letdown, the kind of "hump me baby" stuff that is one of the weakest aspects of Alm's mapping.

A nice, easygoing opener to a set that (B.P.R.D.'s entry aside, as that's sort of its own beast) really shows the transition from the 1994 mapping-adjacent tendencies of CC1, to the more mature and involved layouts of CC3.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Thelokk

KickAss · January 1, 2023

GZDooM 4.9, PB 3.0, HeXeReTiC HUD PB3 v8.3RC2e, Weapon Neural Upscale, Simple Upscaled Enemies, Destroyable Decorations Definitive Edition, Glory Kills v29b, SilentDoomguy, Flashlight, -iwad doom2.wad (ver 1.666), -skill 4 (UV), continuous play, no saves.

MAP01 - “The Furnace” by Erik Alm, really nice oldschool DooM mapping here on this one. Btw happy new year!

Capellan · January 1, 2023

I played CC2 some time ago. My comments on it start here; I didn't finish the whole WAD though - stopped on map27

Also, a note to everyone that map24 has a map-breaking bug due to failure to properly test compatibility. It should work OK in ZDoom and derivatives, but in PrBoom+ you'll need to tinker with settings. Some other ports may not work at all. More details in the spoiler (copied straight from doomwiki.org)

Spoiler

Linedef 9094 (the switch opening the four doors outside at the north of the map) is located closely behind four linedefs (9956, 9957, 9958, 9959) that are of type 48 (animated wall, scrolls left) but are not set as PassThru. Thus, the switch cannot be activated, rendering the level impossible to finish, unless you are playing in ZDoom, or the noclip cheat is used. Users of PrBoom+ can activate "Use passes thru all special lines" in order to reach the switch.

On skill 2 or lower, the landing spot for the teleporter in secret #2 does not exist, making the secret impossible to leave.

Because five of the secrets cannot be reached, with two of them unreachable because of a similar bug to the above, you can only obtain 37% Secrets on this level. With the issue corrected and those two secrets reachable, only 62% is possible.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Capellan

Dusty_Rhodes · January 1, 2023

15 minutes ago, Capellan said:

I played CC2 some time ago. My comments on it start here; I didn't finish the whole WAD though - stopped on map27

Also, a note to everyone that map24 has a map-breaking bug due to failure to properly test compatibility. It should work OK in ZDoom and derivatives, but in PrBoom+ you'll need to tinker with settings. Some other ports may not work at all. More details in the spoiler (copied straight from doomwiki.org)

Hide contents

Linedef 9094 (the switch opening the four doors outside at the north of the map) is located closely behind four linedefs (9956, 9957, 9958, 9959) that are of type 48 (animated wall, scrolls left) but are not set as PassThru. Thus, the switch cannot be activated, rendering the level impossible to finish, unless you are playing in ZDoom, or the noclip cheat is used. Users of PrBoom+ can activate "Use passes thru all special lines" in order to reach the switch.

On skill 2 or lower, the landing spot for the teleporter in secret #2 does not exist, making the secret impossible to leave.

Because five of the secrets cannot be reached, with two of them unreachable because of a similar bug to the above, you can only obtain 37% Secrets on this level. With the issue corrected and those two secrets reachable, only 62% is possible.

Thanks for mentioning this Capellan. To make it easier for my fellow Boom users, here's how to find it:

Options |

|

General |

|

Compatibility with common mapping errors (the seventh page of the general settings)

Then check the "Use passes thu all special lines" to "yes", like Capellan said. Just trying to help because PrBoom+ settings can be hard to sort through.

NiGHTS108 · January 1, 2023

Fairen · January 1, 2023

Map 1: The Furnace (UV)

Pretty...bland, really. The level starts off with a bunch of just-visible zombiemen on a ledge in front of you who'll be immediately gunning for you, which is a bit of a dumb surprise. Other than that, it's just a pretty plain area with basic enemies to shoot, up until the point where you jump into the hole in the corner and have to fight two hell knights in a cramped room. There's an ambush near the end, but it's easily thwarted just by retreating into the main area.

So, resounding meh on this one.

Azure_Horror · January 1, 2023

Ok, this was bound to happen eventually. I don't expect much from cc2, but maybe it will surprise me.

Rules.

I know the following:

a) Community Chest maps often bore me.

b) There is no built-in mods in them.

c) There is likely to be many "non-crazy" maps.

Thus, CC2 is a perfect opportunity to play with mods.

For each map, I will be using one of the following mods:

1) MBF-21 Vesper.

2) Antaresian Reliquary weapon mod.

3) Bourgeois Guns.

4) Bite-Sized Threat.

I will choose whichever mod I feel like playing on that particular day. Vesper is likely to get chosen often, 'cause it is my favorite mod in the list. If like the particular map, I may replay it with another mod, or even without mods entirely.

Ok, here we go...

Map 01 The Furnace by Erik Alm

UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 21, Vesper mod

Vesper pistol has huge damage RNG, but it can two-shot an imp, or gib a zombie! Vepser energy shotgun is projectile-based, but it two-shots a pinkie, and is also pretty efficient against midtiers. Most weapons in Vesper are adjusted in similar manner. So we have a big upside - MOAR Firepower! - but it is balanced by a couple of downsides, like less ammo in pickups, pistol being the only long-range hitscan weapon, and weapons being more eccentric ovearall.

The Furnace is quite amusing map to play with Vesper. Initial area provided a lot of opportunities for using the super-pistol. So much in fact, that i manged to spend all 30 of my satrting ~~Bullets~~ Spikes to shoot at every imp and zombie around! Luckily, the shotgun was also placed nearby, and I was able to proceed with my rampage. The demons were not amused.

Reaching the red key required a small trip to hell, where two hell knights were waiting for unsuspecting visitors. Eric Alm suggested to berserk-punch them, but I spotted ~~a Chaingun~~ a Heavy Spiker nearby and decided to use it instead. Heavy Spiker is Vesper chaingun replacement. It is a powerful projectile-based weapon. Bad at sniping, but perfect for messy close-combat brawls! The hell knights did not fare well against it.

After the small detour to the nether realm, I found a red key and a pair of chaingunners. More ammo for Heavy Spiker is always good! It was finally time for the ultimate battle of the map. A combo of revenants and flanking shotgunners is a tough one! I wonder, why so few maps use it. With Vesper arsenal lacking a traditional chaingun replacement, those shotgunners felt even scarier than usual. However, there were enough Spikes for Heavy Spiker to chew through the revenants quickly, and I was able to hide inside their room. That room provided enough cover to clear all the remaining monsters.

Conclusion about The Furnace: In my opinion, this is one of the best map 01 replacemnts, one of the best Eric Alm maps, and one of the best maps without Big Guns (SSG, RL, Cell weapons). Far too often maps without SSG or the like dissolve into grindy set ups. But The Furnance is perfectly balanced to avoid that. Berserk and Chaingun are set up to be the power weapons here, and they seem to fill this role. ~~Of course, I was playing with a mod, but I still played enough Doom to gauge the power of the chaingun even from memory.~~

You know what? This is a good enough map to replay it many, many times, both with and without mods! Let's see, where would it bring me.

The Furnace (Antaresian Reliquary mod)

This mod buffs most weapons to encourage a more varied approach to combat. In particular, its chaingun is comparable to Valiant Chaingun. Once again, the Hell Knights fell quite quickly, especially given the increased amount of bullets in this mod. But this time, I also tested buffed breserk and chainsaw.You can indeed saw a Hell Knight in Antaresian Reliquary! Berserk is still far superoior, however, especially given its doubled damage. The final fight once again fell to the powerful chaingun. This particular mod also replaces pistol zombies with nasty energy snipers, but they were not a problem on that map. Strong hitscan weapons from slots 2 and 3 made short work of them!

The Furnace (No mods at all)

Yep, I was right. Even normal Doom 2 chaingun feels very efficent for this map. If the player doesn't like punching hell nobles - than the chaingun still provides an efficient altrenative. The normal chaingun does not rip through revenants fast enough, however, so the final battle required a little change of plans. With revs being too beefy, I focused my attention on shotgunners, and used their area for hiding instead. From there, I was able to clear the reamaining monsters. BTW, if you want to learn berserking revs, you can soften them with bullets or buckshot beforehand. Finishing a rev with a 'zerk punch is a) satisfying and b) saves ammo.

The Furnace (Bourgeois Guns)

When it comes to ranged weapons, Bourgeois Guns is not that crazy. Better hitscans, faster flying rockets - cool, but not extraordinary. But melee weapons... This is another story entirely! Chainsaw in particular becomes very interesting. When it latches onto target, it throws Doomguy around violently, but in exchanges it provides terryfing amount of damage and hitstun. Sawing a Hell Knight is a good idea for once! Punches are also buffed. Even basic punches can be used to bully pinkies, and berserk punches are strong enough to eliminate archviles in a few quick jabs! Needless to say, with Bourgeois Guns installed, the revs at the final fight were once again prioritised and oblitirated. However this time, they fell not to a chaingun replacement, but to a devastaing melee assault.

The Furnace (Bite-Sized Threat)

!Trade offer! You get 4 times less ammo, but demons get 4 times less HP. This is Bite-Sized Threat mod in a nutshell. Amusingly enough, the resulting gameplay against lowtiers resembles Vesper mod. The ammo is low, and the weapons feel eccentric, but you recieve considerable firepower in exchange. There is another important change, however. Monster infighting also becomes 4 times more efficient! A shotgunner can one-shot an imp, and an imp can one-shot a chaingunner. This is funny to look at!

In the end, I could not have asked for better map 01. Not only the map itself is very good at what it is trying to do*, it also provided a perfect testing ground to gauge the mods I am going to use. The CC-2 month may still turn out fun in the end...

* I need to add a caveat here. I did call The Furnance "one of the best map 01 replacements". But this works only if the player doesn't have strong gameplay preferences. If the player seeks eccentric and/or challenging setups - then they would prefer Sunlust, Ancient Aliens, or Overboard map 01. If the player likes exploration - they would prefer Lost Civilization map 01, and so on. But if we discuss small classic-inspired maps without power weapons, then The Furnance is really one of the best.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Azure_Horror

Nefelibeta · January 1, 2023

Map01 Furnance

Spoiler

A decent if not a bit generic opener for a community project. Starting off with exactly what you would expect from the author of Scythe and Scythe II. Comfy enemy placements, clean texturing, gradient lighting and height variations. I'm going to guess this map resembles the transition from Scythe to Scythe II, since the visual styles here remind me heavily of E3 and E4 of it. The map title is hinted at the lone flame wall texture in the second area and the 2 HK encounter, the latter which somehow became one of the most memorable sceneries of CC2 for me. I guess I'm really not hooked in my initial playthrough. Anyway, I expect myself to hate this megawad even more now that I have come back with far more experiences, so it's nice to have a little fun before we move on.

brick · January 1, 2023

Well this is a surprise. I could've sworn this was going to be a tie between Solar Struggle and D2ISO, with CC2 lagging well behind. I'm happy with the outcome though, playing CC1 ~~earlier this year~~ last year with the DWMC made me think the roller-coaster and lack of thematic cohesion is perfect for the Club's format. I'm out of town at the moment but will very happily join in and catch up as soon as I get back. I had several pleasant surprises with CC1 and am hoping for similar maps in this one. And I am looking forward to more Gene Bird, he was perhaps the biggest pleasant surprise I had with CC1.

Dusty_Rhodes · January 1, 2023

Map01: The Furnace

Erik Alm

Played continuously on PrBoom+/UMAPINFO on Complevel 9 in Ultra Violence

I feel like Furnace is an overlooked level in Alm's list of work. Obviously Scythe and it's sequel are discussed plenty, and PL2 gets lots of love still; this level is often forgotten. It's a humble but professional start for the megawad. The combat is very 2004, but in no way goes over the top, respect for Erik for his ability to not try and make a masterpiece. Visually, The Furnace is quite appealing. It paints in simple but tasteful swathes of BROWN1, BRICK10, METAL, and SUPPORT3. This lends a very cohesive style to the map. The Hell Knight punchout section is good fun, even 18 years later, and I love the look of the lighting in this map. Really, the whole level plays like Scythe condensed into one opening level. Well done, Erik.

Endless · January 1, 2023

You guys are real masochists lol Community Chest 2 is a ''good, fun CP''*, but holy crap I remember it took me at least 8 hours to finish when I first played it years ago. Will be reading the comments here ;)

^{*Opinions may vary hehe}

Edited January 1, 2023 by Endless

Dusty_Rhodes · January 1, 2023

2 minutes ago, Endless said:

You guys are real masochists lol Community Chest 2 is a ''good, fun CP''*, but holy crap I remember it took me at least 8 hours to finish when I first played it years ago. Will be reading the comments here ;)

^{*Opinions may vary hehe}

Not going to lie, most megawads take me at least six hours. I think it's a good length. Though some of these later maps do drag a bit.

Thelokk · January 1, 2023

18 minutes ago, Endless said:

You guys are real masochists lol Community Chest 2 is a ''good, fun CP''*, but holy crap I remember it took me at least 8 hours to finish when I first played it years ago. Will be reading the comments here ;)

^{*Opinions may vary hehe}

At the very least I found it a decided step up in quality over CC1, even looking at 'notorious' mappers (ie Gene Bird). It does have its fair share of grindy maps (hello MAP05) but there are a few gems buried very deep in.

Of course it will forever be 'the Mucus Flow wad' and nothing will probably ever change that.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Thelokk

Azure_Horror · January 1, 2023

59 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I feel like Furnace is an overlooked level in Alm's list of work.

Yeah, this exactly. This level combines strong points of simple Scythe 1 E1 maps with elemets from Eric Alm's challenging levels. The result is unique and very coherent.

Ok, it is time for a little rebellion. I am going to post map 02 write up right now! MWA-HA-HA!

Map 02 Coolant Platform by iori

UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9, Bite-Sized Threat mod

The level appears pretty basic, but it includes a lot of boom trickery under the hood. The sudden appearance of red key was very puzzling at first, but then I remebered about silent teleporters and conveyor belts... Then there are bonus ammo pick ups, which quitely appear in cleared areas. And the timing of soulsphere secret also feels a bit unsusal for a vanilla action, but maybe I am imagining things...

Bite-Sized Threat mod turned out to be a perfect mod for this map! With every monster having 4 times less hp, every meager shot feels powerful. And with ammo pick ups being 4 times smaller, every shot counts! This is perfect combo for a level didicated to small enemies and small guns. There is quite a bit decison making between chaingun, pistol and shotgun.

The cacos, pinkies and barons might have been too beefy with basic doom rules, but Bite-Sized Threat transformed corresponding fights into small dynamic action sequences. The courtyard showdown was a real highlight of the run: with miniscule ammo coffers, I felt encouraged to go on the offensive, and greatly increased power of my shots made this offensive very satisfying.

Finally, Bite-Sized Threat greatly improved the secrets of this level. Normally, two of the three secrets have rocket boxes inside. However, there is no rocket launcher to be seen. Bite-Sized Threat opted to Replace all rocket boxes with two-rocket pick up. Only way to achieve this in Vanilla? Switch rocket boxes for Rocket Launchers! With this adjustment, the rockets were more than pretty collectibles! And btw, in this mod a lucky rocket hit can oneshot a baron! Funny then it happens...

Seeing two barons and many pistol zombies, I also replayer this map with A-Reliquary weapon mod, which replaces both enemy types with more agressive and threatening foes. With new monsters and devastating chaingun replacement Antaresian Reliquary also provided me with a lot of fun moments on this map.

Conclusion: This is exavtly the type of the map I decided to use mods for. While Coolant Platform does not have any particular shortcomings, it is indeed can get pretty boring with normal doom rules. Map 02 of Doom 2, or E1m2 of Doom 1 offer more gameplay variety, and gameplay of Coolant Platform feels a bit lacking in comparison. Mods did indeed remedy this. Everything is going according to my master plan...

BTW, DSDA-Doom with complevel 9 played this map without any issues or bugs. If anyone has problems triggering shotgun sequence at the start - maybe your complevel is not set up correctly?

Edited January 1, 2023 by Azure_Horror

Endless · January 1, 2023

19 minutes ago, Thelokk said:

At the very least I found it a decided step up in quality over CC1, even looking at 'notorious' mappers (ie Gene Bird). It does have its fair share of grindy maps (hello MAP05) but there are a few gems buried very deep in.

Of course it will forever be 'the Mucus Flow wad' and nothing will probably ever change that.

An interesting idea that seems to both hinder and improve the reputation of the WAD. It surely is better than the nightmare of CC1, but without Mucus Flow, I personally would rate it as just as another classic CP that's, IMO, forgettable. Ironically since it suffers from magnum opus syndrome, so there's a lot of maps that have a ton of work into, but precisely because of that, I wasn't so overly fond of it.

I guess if you eat cake and cake and cake, you end up boring of cake.

Thelokk · January 1, 2023

MAP02: Coolant Platform by Iori

DSDA / UV / 100% kills / 100% secrets

I have to say, in spite of being technically and layout-wise far more complex than Alm's map, I always liked Iori's a tiny bit less. I guess because, at its core and behind the Boom trickery, it's a very 'standard' map: unlike The Furnace it doesn't have its maker's stamp all over it. It's a pretty good map than any pretty good mapper could have made.

It's also pretty much an UD map, as it features no SSG or D2 monsters, and the general layout / texturing itself really evokes that E1 feel - it even uses the E1 sky! I admit I did die a couple of times, mostly to hitscanner ambushes: there is plenty of health and ammo, but armor is rather scarce and pain sectors abound. The secrets are nothing incredible, and the final BoH feels like needless bloat, but combat is overall engaging enough. I still wish I had the SSG to make taking down those hordes of imps a bit more ASMR-ish.

So yeah, a solid, competent map, but a bit more... generic compared to what came before, I guess. Which is curious, as a certain kind of minimalist 'genericness' is one of Alm's mapping staples, which I guess goes to show that even a limit, if consciously embraced, can become a strength.

Really curious to see reactions to tomorrow's map, as MAP03, as everyone is probably aware, has a... rather interesting history.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Thelokk

Azure_Horror · January 1, 2023

41 minutes ago, Endless said:

An interesting idea that seems to both hinder and improve the reputation of the WAD. It surely is better than the nightmare of CC1, but without Mucus Flow, I personally would rate it as just as another classic CP that's, IMO, forgettable. Ironically since it suffers from magnum opus syndrome, so there's a lot of maps that have a ton of work into, but precisely because of that, I wasn't so overly fond of it.

I guess if you eat cake and cake and cake, you end up boring of cake.

I feel like Magnum Opus Syndrome is a bane of many community projects. It is very annoying in CC3, it is still felt in some maps of Japanese community project or 180mpv, and it even managed to appear in a few maps from 1000 lines Projects! Hell, the few maps from cc2 that I have played were humble. Including two Gene Bird maps, btw.

There is also another issue lurking around. Some things may age better than others. After playing a few cc2 maps foe myself, I feel like in year 2004 this WAD belonged to "not Scythe or Alien Vendetta, but still a damn good megaWAD". But nowadays, Scythe still feels great, while community chest looks ~~pretty unmemorable~~ much less special. (edit: unmemorable was not exactly correct word for what I was trying to describe)

Edited January 1, 2023 by Azure_Horror

finnks13 · January 1, 2023

Hell yeah! While Community Chest and it's sequel are, understandably, not most people's pick for "best wad ever!", Community Chest 1 is easily the most fun I've had writing about maps with the club - probably due to the very inconsistent quality of these levels. I'm hoping Community Chest 2 is equally as fun, especially since I've played this before and actually quite like it. I said in the thread for CC1 that the second entry in the Community Chest quadrilogy was my favourite, so let's see if that statement holds up to a replay!

I will be playing with dsdadoom v0.25.0, -cl 9 on Ultra-Violence from a pistol start. While I try to go for 100% kills, I can't be bothered to secret hunt so if I miss a few - so be it.

MAP01 - The Furnace by Erik Alm: ^{or should that be Eric Alm :^)}

2:09/0 Deaths
Exactly what you'd expect from a Map01 with Erik Alm's name on it, The Furnace is a fun, fast-paced sprint through a small techbase that is a bit too short to leave much of an impression on most people beyond "yeah that was pretty good". Visually it reminds me a lot of Map05 of Scythe and Map11 from Scythe 2, being comprised of green bricks and metal with a couple of deviations when you go inside, and in The Furnace itself. You have to play quickly, and are under fire from zombies and imps with the high-ground for the majority of the opening, with a few tiny teleport traps when picking up guns and keys that will lightly test you while not being an actual threat as long as you aren't half-asleep.

For all of the "this map is unmemorable" talk, I thought there were two separate moments in the map that do stand out to me, the first being when you jump into The Furnace itself, and emerge into a hell cavern with two hell knights and a berserk pack. Now this is Erik Alm at his cosiest, so this isn't designed to kill the player, as you've got plenty of health around and a chaingun if you're not into punching hell nobles. The other stand out moment is the finale, which puts a wall of shotgunners on one side of you, a wall of imps on the other and two revenants storming out of the exit - the shotgunners being the priority targets, despite the revenants preference for hitting you for 80 damage at a time.

The Furnace isn't something that I expect would stand out if we weren't going through and talking about each map individually, but I'm glad we did because I think this is actually a very solidly designed and fun opener to a wad, which presents you with a couple of fun traps and bows out before taking up too much of your time. Honestly, I think a lot of maps in CC2 (and not in CC2 :P) could learn something from this one.

Dusty_Rhodes · January 1, 2023

I'm most certainly biased, but I've never found CC1 or 2 to be forgettable. There are some maps that aren't incredibly distinguished, but even then, I remembered most of the maps since the first time I played them. Even in CC1. Though I find a strange narrative connection between the first ten or so maps that isn't, in reality, there. That's probably why I remember them in such a distinct way and what inspired multiple playthroughs. This thread isn't about CC1, so I won't elaborate on my narrative theory too much for fear of highjacking. Anyways, same goes for CC2. I'd argue a lot of the early maps are memorable - the clean slickness of Map01, the oppressiveness of Map05, the open brightness of Map06, the unique dimension traveling of Map07, etc. Even Irori's Map02 distinguishes itself past "an E1 styled level" with the Boom faux - scripting at the start and nice details like the huge floor drain and strobe light.

Maybe I'm yelling at a cloud, but I find there to be plenty of memorable moments due to the character of mapping the early 2000s that you can find in CC2. It reeks of 2004 in the best way, and that's kind of what makes it stick in my head. Similar wads like Congestion1024 that even feature similar authors feel completely different. I still love the CC wads today, but this:

10 minutes ago, Azure_Horror said:

There is also another issue lurking around. Some things may age better than others. After playing a few cc2 maps foe myself, I feel like in year 2004 this WAD belonged to "not Scythe or Alien Vendetta, but still a damn good megaWAD". But nowadays, Scythe still feels great, while community chest looks pretty unmemorable.

I think maybe reads true. But it may also be an unfair comparison - Alien Vendetta has a united theme, a smaller, more connected team, and much longer development time. Scythe, similarly so, being developed by just two guys. Community Chest as a concept started when Cadman said "Hey Doomworld, let me see your levels." It was grab bag from the start, for better of for worse. I think there's a certain beauty to that.

Azure_Horror · January 1, 2023

2 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I think maybe reads true. But it may also be an unfair comparison - Alien Vendetta has a united theme, a smaller, more connected team, and much longer development time. Scythe, similarly so, being developed by just two guys. Community Chest as a concept started when Cadman said "Hey Doomworld, let me see your levels." It was grab bag from the start, for better of for worse. I think there's a certain beauty to that.

Yeah, this is also an important factor.

That said, it is hard to say, which WAD aged better in the end. Nowadays, I occasionally think that Scythe 1 managed to age better than Scythe 2, or that Hell Revealed Series still offers a lot of untapped potential, which would be very useful for modern challenge WADs...

Devalaous · January 1, 2023

Now this I didn't expect to see. Ive gotten to Map 8 myself on this and its a recent game, so I may play along this time.

LadyMistDragon · January 1, 2023

1 hour ago, Azure_Horror said:

BTW, DSDA-Doom with complevel 9 played this map without any issues or bugs. If anyone has problems triggering shotgun sequence at the start - maybe your complevel is not set up correctly?

I thought at least the first 2 CCs were limit-removing, but now I remember seeing something about at least CC4 being Boom-compatible. Thanks.

E.M. · January 2, 2023

You know what? I'll join this one.

To be honest, I don't really like Community Chest 2. It was one of the first PWADs I played when I was getting into Doom back in 2019, and although some parts were lots of fun, many others were either boring or frustrating. Let's see if my opinions have changed since then.

MAP01 - “The Furnace” by Erik Alm

DSDA-Doom, UV, Pistol Start

Erik Alm is my biggest Doom mapping influence. He made the first map of this wad, which also happens to be one of the best. It's small, simple, and straightforward, just the way I like it. The hardest part is the fight with the two hell knights in the pit, but I got a lot better at it with repeated playthroughs. The final fight can be cheesed by just running in, running back out, and bottlenecking the enemies, but it was still enjoyable.

MAP02 - “Coolant Platform” by iori

DSDA-Doom, UV, Pistol Start

MtPain27 didn't like this one, but I thought it was okay. It's a good old-fashioned tech base romp with some nice detailing and a few Boom tricks to spice things up, most notably that spinning light. The fights are good, even if they're too easy to camp. They made me wish I had an SSG so things would go faster. The soulsphere secret was annoying. I don't like running after timed lifts. I also found it bizarre that they give you rockets, but no rocket launcher. Maybe that's for continuous playthroughs.

Nefelibeta · January 2, 2023

Map02 Coolant Platform

Spoiler

Knee-Deep In Boom, if it's actually a thing. I'd imagine one's first impression with this map is going to change depending on your perspective. On the plus side, the map is solid and nicely detailed, boom tricks are surprising if actually impactful. On the other hand, it really is just taking some random themes from Doom E1, throwing them into a blender and adding some extra spice for the heck of it. Even then I felt like this map lacks the charm of Doom E1, inserting mass corridor shooting with only a single barrel and having almost only incidental combat don't fit into my definition of fun, so I guess there's my rants on this map. At least the last area run'n gun is kind of cool.

Obligatory Abtrary Ranking:

Spoiler

ok:

Map01 Furnance

nothing special:

Map02 Coolant Platform

Anarkzie · January 2, 2023

“The Furnace"

I like the authors work but this is not one of his best. There's nothing really wrong with it, it just does nothing to really standout. There does not seem to be any kind of theme to tie it altogether. I guess opening levels can be kind of hard to make an impression.

Capellan · January 2, 2023

Remembered another potentially map-breaking bug, this one on map20.

It is possible to skip the bars opened by the yellow key (sector 216) with a strafejump - it is safest not to do this as if you do, you can break the map and make it impossible to finish. Full details are at the wiki.

KickAss · January 2, 2023

GZDooM 4.9, PB 3.0, HeXeReTiC HUD PB3 v8.3RC2e, Weapon Neural Upscale, Simple Upscaled Enemies, Destroyable Decorations Definitive Edition, Glory Kills v29b, SilentDoomguy, Flashlight, -iwad doom2.wad (ver 1.666), -skill 4 (UV), continuous play, no saves.

MAP02 - “Coolant Platform” by iori

Yumheart · January 2, 2023

Hey, looks like I'm joining for another Community Chest installment!
I'm playing these maps on UV. Since so many maps in this set use stock music, I'm loading Cchest2.wad alongside MMMUS.wad, meaning I'll be listening to the music Memento Mori's maps used for the respective map slots as long as there's no replacement.

map01 "The Furnace" by Erik Alm
Erik is a master of crafting generic but fun maps and this is no exception.
The use of space and verticality might be standard nowadays, but you appreciate the decisively non-corridor shooting action when you compare it to the next couple of maps. The layout is superior to the average CC map, it's very compact and has a nice way of looping you around. I liked the couple of little traps that you have to face once you jump into the titular furnace, first a pair of Hellknights, then a pair of Chaingunners and finally a pinch situation with Imps and Shotgunners being released to your left and right and two Revenants in front of you. The chance of the player dying here is minimal, but it keeps you on your toes. Overall, a good opening map with fine looks.

map02 "Coolant Platform" by Iori
A E1-styled techbase map with some nice detail and lighting touches. You get a lot of fodder to chew through and a steady dribble of monsters leads you through the map to stop the player from becoming bored or confused. This map relies entirely on incidental encounters, which is fine, generally speaking, but a bit uninteresting.
One thing I didn't get: Why is the RL a secret? I only found the stash of rockets near the end, but the RL is apparently hidden somewhere else. I ended up just maneuvering around the two crudely placed Barons since they're not even much of a threat (I am not shotgunning two Barons of Hell). This map isn't bad, but I'm probably not gonna be playing it again.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Yumheart

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