SiFi270 Posted January 26, 2023 Map26: Geist Halls "One of these days I'm going to rip and tear you into little pieces." Yes, I've been waiting all month to make that joke. +++ Number One Kill, TNG, and the Extra map if it doesn't fall outside the DWMWC's scope. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post
Azure_Horror Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) Map 19 The Marbelous Three by Hirogen2 UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9 Mod: Mostly Irrelevant. I played with Bourgeois Guns fisrt and later played again without mods. Extremely beautiful level. I never imagined that such things can be done with stock textures! This visual perfection reminds me about Purgatorial Technologies by @antares031 - another map with breataking visuals built from normal textures only. The combat, aside from the invuln-berserk brawl, is of a standard chaingun-SSG variety. Nothing special here. The gameplay takes the backseat and the art drives the map forward. Art is almost exceptional, the level is short (100 monsters) - it all adds up to a nice relaxing experience. Just what I needed after long TNT-esque map 18! Map 20 Enigma by The Flange Peddler UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9 Mod: Bite-Sized Threat. It really elevates this particular map. This level is a well detailed homage to Limbo (Doom1 E3m7). As expected for a Limbo reference, map 20 has a bit cryptic progression and many damaging floor sections. The combat is different, however. All the fights have 'normal' early 2000s design at their core. About 150 enemies in total, focus on the SSG and small groups of damaging opponents, only one single archvile, nothing too crazy in general. I feel that such combat scheme is a wrong choice for a Limbo homage, especially with zero non-secret armor suits. Damaging floors are common - thus some tics of damage are almost inevitable, especially if the player gets lost and the rad suit runs out. Therefore, high-damage opponents demand attention, because the health is needed for exploration. But the fights themselves are pretty boring. End result - fights feel like repetitive obligations rather than important challenges. Limbo is better in this regard: it has only 40 monsters, and so the combat ends much quicker! Here Bite-Sized Threat mod came really clutch. The fights end much quicker - so they feel much less stale. In exchange, the ammo and weapon management becomes significantly more important - perfect for an exploration map! Map 20 is not a bad map by any means. That said, its gameplay loop may feels a repetitive and unpleasant. But, to be fair, the players of CC2 need some gentle exercise in this direction. The Mucus Flow is right behind the corner... Map Rankings Spoiler The Mucus Flow: Map 24 waits until I place maps 21-23 into the list. The maps I like: Map 15 City Heat by The Ultimate DooMer Map 31 Ideé Fixe by Sarge Baldy Map 06 The View by Lutrov71 Map 32 Sodding Death by chopkinsca Map 04 Deja Vu by GeneBird Map 11 Beyond Pain by Exile Map 03 Slidge Control by The Flange Peddler Map 07 To Hell and Back by The Flange Peddler Map 01 The Furnace by Erik Alm Map 08 The Pit by Gene Bird Map 19 The Marbelous Three by Hirogen2 Map 18 Internal Reaches 3 by Kaiser Map 17 Through the Black by Andy Leaver Map 12 Redemption by Gene Bird Map 14 Shadow of Evil by Mephisto Map 02 Coolant Platform by iori Map 13 Annihilation Invention by PsyRen Map 05 Elixir by RjY Map 10 Intermission by Volteface Average / OK maps: Map 20 Enigma by The Flange Peddler Map 16 Spirit World HQ by Gene Bird Map 09 The Transformer by Graf Zahl Edited January 27, 2023 by Azure_Horror 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
LadyMistDragon Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Map 26: Geist Halls by Dr Zin I'll keep this short because I really don't have the time to pontificate on the author's dedication to a TNT-like sense of place, but there is much that could be descrived.. Dr. Zin's humble little entry is definitely not going to be remembered as anything he made for Community Chest 3, however, this humble little offering distingushes itself with the midi of a lesser-known Pink Floyd song that goes well with the spacey feel and custom sky used here. Structure definitely feels like a maze of warrens but is overall quite tech-y. The variety of locations on display is really nice, the secrets are even better and it hardly feels grindy at all. Already Dr. Zin is proving to have a real eye for detail and definitely a little more for taking chances. Now the next two maps are going to be really grindy compared to this, but that's what mods are for:) lmd_cc2_26.zip Edited January 27, 2023 by LadyMistDragon 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
brick Posted January 27, 2023 I keep forgetting to vote. Much as I'd love to play Number One Kill Trilogy (which seems to have a big lead right now), I'd rather leave it for a longer month like March, so I'm going to vote for things closer in length to February's number of days. +++ Literalism +++ Osiris & Auger:Zenith +++ Hexen: Beyond Heretic (someone always voted for it in previous months, I feel compelled to continue the tradition) 3 Quote Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) MAP 27 – Gethsemane by Mike Alfredson @Use DSDA-Doom v0.24.3, UV, Continuous, blind run w/saves The name Gethsemane belonged to the traditional Doom quotes from the Bible, sounding appropriate just as E4 titles but giving nothing away about the map’s content. If you know Use3D and have played his double feature from Community Chest, you know what to expect and will be grateful to have only one entry instead of two. He arranged sectors and linedefs with mastery to create grand, ominous, and appealing settings. However, his unhealthy habit of relying on switches to manage progression did not benefit this hellish underground map at all, as they interrupted an advancement that was protracted, though still pleasurable in my blind playthrough. Spoiler A hot start that reminded me of Another Dead Hero was made much less hectic by a Megasphere and a SSG with enough shells. My tendency to turn right brought me directly to the BSK chamber, where a host of rabble roamed the steps of a blood cascade. This encounter was easy to control but amusing nonetheless; I used the Cyberdemon to wipe out the bulk of the enemies, then I came back to the starting area equipped with plasma rifle for the still groaning welcome committee. A quick tour of the area revealed the exit, unlocked with the BSK and the RSK. Just one key left? This is not the Use3D I used to know! Spoiler I should have known that the map portion lying ahead was three or four times bigger than the rest of the level, and that the author wanted the player to suffer to their last breath before granting the coveted RSK. It started with a drop inside a colossal rocky cave filled with blood and Arachnotrons, so big that a small fort patrolled by Imps and Hell Knights was fully contained in it, along with many ledges with sniping monsters and a large Cacoswarm ready to invade the airspace. Killing everything was not a problem with the heap of ammo and the large space available, and the same goes for the next chambers, all containing large quantities of monsters waiting to be killed. The staircase with the animated blood falls, the BFG unholy shrine, and the wood & marble hub were separated by irritating one-way paths, with switches commanding doors and slow elevators that were nothing more than a waste of time. Spoiler The hub required hit-and-run tactics before entering, due to the dangerous Revenants shooting from behind gratings. The path went right from there, crossing jagged tunnels and reaching a blasphemous church; after more fighting in caverns that showcased a red COLORMAP trick, not adding much to be honest, the streak ended with a switch revealing a switch (!) to continue into the left wing, where more caverns and rooms with doors commanded by switches awaited the growingly tired player. Mapping details hampered movement and devilish lines regularly shut doors behind Doomguy; Use3D meant to discourage door camping with these measures, but he only made backtracking to previous parts a time-consuming activity. In the last stretch he used height variation in a rather impolite manner, such as in the Mancubi cavern with damaging floor, and on that thin bridge hiding Lost Souls at the bottom. Petersen played such pranks in The Chasm, but not after dragging the player’s feet for 50 minutes and consuming their spacebar with triggers. When I finally reached the fort at the centre of the cavern and retrieved the RSK from the fake underground chamber with the pentacle, I was so relieved that I barely cared for the flock of Pain Elementals and Cacodemons unleashed for the final battle. I was glad that the only switch left to press was the one that opened the exit, and I was content with finding 2 out of 3 secrets. I cannot dismiss Gethsemane as a bad map because it had its share of wonderful vistas, violent action, and technical prowess; it went all in with switches on that never-ending RSK path though, to the point it was unquestionably too much. Use has evolved a lot since the first two Community Chests, leaving contributions to many high-profile projects, and he is concocting new material to release later this year. We will see! 8 hours ago, brick said: Much as I'd love to play Number One Kill Trilogy (which seems to have a big lead right now), I'd rather leave it for a longer month like March, so I'm going to vote for things closer in length to February's number of days. The positive about #1kill and its sequels is the brevity, as most of the maps are completed in roughly 15 minutes, with only a couple exceeding 20 minutes (blind). There is nothing like the 1 hour epics that characterised CChest2, so I think they are very suitable for the shorter month of the year. Edited January 27, 2023 by Book Lord 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Crusader No Regret Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Lingering thought: Map 5 in CChest 3 will continue the "tradition" of having a high difficulty map early on in the map order. It will be something to look forward to (or dread) whenever Cchest 3 gets selected. Map 23: DNF Really like the concept and how much the outdoor area references Death Mountain from Link to the Past. There are factors that make playing it irritating, moreso if pistol starting. Much of the map is either cramped, dark, or both. Monster groups often greet the player at very close range and the terrain is not amenable to infighting. Making use of the silent teleport cave doorways to manipulate monster movement definitely helps out with survival. Most people aren't going to care but for me, I wanted to avoid picking up armor bonuses so I could exit with as much armor as possible. (silly player, get a successful exit first before obsessing over that) So in addition to dealing with not dying in cramped areas, I'm trying to dance around things I don't want to pick up yet. Map 24 is even more devoid of armor so this factor has some relevance to a continuous player to carry over as much armor as possible. I'm not going to low-rate a map just because it doesn't align with my player preferences. There's a long way to trek before finding more weapons than a shotgun and a chainsaw though so pistol starters beware. And infight baiting is often not practical so expect to be grinding down the opposition directly before finding a stronger weapon to use. I managed to miss the starting shotgun for a while too which made things even slower. Of course the one rock formation it's tucked behind is the one I forgot to search. Touhou mods blooper: Wasn't going to mention that I was playing this map with these alterations (as they don't really impact the talking points in the previous paragraphs) but I had one particularly humorous incident. Made it to the cyber room with the plasma rifle. Brought out the cyber right away because I was greedy and intended to get it infighting with the hellknights. (already a bad idea with dammaku hellknights, safer to take them out separately) While running around, I had that realization that a character had replaced the cyber and which one it was. "Oh shit, it's Marisa." And she shoots a lot more stuff than a cyberdemon, normal or dammaku. Added to what the hellknights were throwing out, that's a lot of fire to avoid. She did take out a few hellknights in the scramble but I also took an unnecessarily high amount of damage during that time so the infight baiting wasn't worth it. I did die here but used -resurrect in the console around 8 times with the intent of playing out the encounter. Yes, I did die to Master Spark once. Got too distracted dodging the small stuff and wasn't clear of the big blast. Then I got obliterated by BFSpark 9000 and just conceded. It was a wild and crazy ride but the fusion of Master Spark and the BFG 9000 felt like too much to brute force through. Edited January 29, 2023 by Crusader No Regret 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
Poncho1 Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Map22: Thematic Elements Authors: Thomas Lutrov (Lutrov71) & Kimmo Kumpulainen (Jimi) The only collaborative effort that Cchest2 has to offer happens to have been one since Lutrov made the original design and, thinking it wasn't hard enough, handed it over to Jimi, who subsequently bumped the difficulty up. It's the standard "get-three-keys-in-three-different-sections" sort of set-up. The problem is that these sections don't gel together at all. The left teleporter takes you to a Plutonia-esque area (complete with a not-so-secret winding room with pillars that's a dead ringer for a similar room in Aztec) that jumps from wide-open slaughter - such as the Spectre/Cacodemon fight at the fountain - to very cramped fights with Arachnotrons and Barons, before concluding with a supremely idiotic teleport into the faces of three point-blank Mancubi. The middle teleport is, for the most part, similarly about small-quarters battles, starting with several scuffles that are more obnoxious than they are difficult: pop-up Chaingunners with an Arch-vile, narrow passages excreting Chaingunners and Lost Souls, water tunnels with inconsistently-teleporting random enemies, and a few dickish trap-in teleports where Hell Knights try to block your escape from a gang of Chaingunners at the end of the last tunnel. The crate maze area is actually pretty good, being as the BFG makes mince-meat of the opposition, though I'm not a fan of the cheap double Arch-viles that just appear without warning. The third area is, yet again, an inconsistent mish-mash of wide-open skirmishes (why oh why would you reference TNT's Metal, one of that WAD's worst levels?) to *more* in-your-face shenanigans, none more evident than a teleporter than takes the player to a door where the enemies can easily swarm you due to the teleport-destination platform being really narrow. The level caps off with a surprisingly lowkey double Arch-vile run-in with a couple of Chaingunners in cages. For all my bitching, the slaughter-ish gameplay makes for a couple of fun moments and the aesthetics are far from the worst that the WAD has to offer, but it's not what I'd call particularly good, either. Map23: Death Mountain Author: Cyber-Menace Is that a Mega Man X3 track I hear? Why yes, it's Toxic Seahorse (off-topic: best level and stage music in an overall shitty game)! The upbeat track sits well with the fast-paced, mostly manageable gameplay in this mountainous region that's apparently based off of a location in one of the Zelda games, which I've barely played (I only ever picked up the sword in the first Zelda, and gave up afterwards). When you think about it, Death Mountain is what a Gene Bird map would be like if his detailing was pretty good and he liked to experiment with silent teleporters, which this map uses aplenty; you can actually cheese a ton of the fights by either waiting out the enemies to pass through themselves and easily kill them, or use the silent teleporters to instantly telefrag them, without the penalty of being stuck in place for a brief moment like with normal teleporters. The SSG-heavy action is, as with Gene, just fine, though Cyber-Menace ratchets up the intensity at a couple of moments, such as a room where enemies slowly teleport in - starting with Zombiemen and Imps - before escalating to Hell Knights and finally an Arch-vile; a wide-open chamber with four platforms of Hell Knights, a load of Spectres, and a Cyberdemon as a sort of boss encounter; and, towards the end, a silent teleporter that throws you into the face of a load of Revenants, Cacodemons, Mancubi and the like - nice "holy shit!" moment, there. As for how it looks, Death Mountain is a winner: I especially like how the map seems to be floating in the sky. Finally, a genuinely good map after a plethora of average/mediocre offerings! Map24: The Mucus Flow Author: B.P.R.D. Everyone knows about this one, from those who went into it blind in 2004 to today; reverred as one of the greatest maps ever made in Doomdom. The rocky terrains, the crystal-like minerals embedded in the walls of the techbase, the nukage pouring from the mountain's hundreds of orifices, the [appropriately] human nose as the source of the infestation, the cosy feel of the base (what with its many benches, slowly-dying plants and turret/guard posts) and, perhaps most famously, its haunting music that only adds to the already dread-inducing atmosphere. If ever there was a mood piece in a Doom game, this and Comatose would be the best contenders: other maps can - and may - come close, but very few can match the existential, almost depressing, tone that B.P.R.D. generates here. So, after all that guff, what do you do here? Well, here's a level that I'd call very gimmicky, what comes to gameplay: the only resources you get are right at the beginning, with a few patches of health dotted around in either guarded posts or in obscure secrets (which, to the frustration of blind players, are kinda mandatory). Even with a carried-over inventory, you really have to lean on the Tyson weapons if you even want a chance at beating the map, so you'd better brush up on your Berserk skills. Unlike the previous similarly-themed (gameplay-wise) map Elixir, B.P.R.D. doesn't make the combat *too* cramped, and allows the player to play at their own pace: do you take the scale up the mountain to the Red Key slowly, or do you aggressively take out the Pain Elementals with your SSG as quickly as possible? Do you open up the Revenants by the circular bench room near the Mancubus corridor to the Yellow Key while the Arachnotron and Chaingunner turrets are still active, or do you methodically take each kind of monster out? Such decisions are ripe for replayability and show, in spite of the low number of tries for it, how the UV-Max entries for the map are all wildly different, not just in final time but also in strategy. The ending just bumps the stakes up even more: a valley filled with more of those irritating turrets, Mancubus snipers, more goddamn Pain Elementals, Revenants, and low-tier monsters that make survival difficult because of the lack of resources. Once just about everything is dead - including the Chaingunner turrets that can only be efficiently dealt with using a very hidden secret switch - the nukage overflows the dead facility and allows you to escape through a halo towards the stars. However... for all of its unique gameplay choices, for all of its equally-unique atmosphere, that doesn't stop B.P.R.D.'s most infamous work from having a few flaws, some that several overlook due to its singular vision: the constant need to backtrack for supplies at the beginning is, even with a continuous run, pretty tedious (and I can only imagine what it'd be like for Pistol-starters); the obscurity of the secrets is pretty bad once you realise that they're *all* practically required to win, and much like Map21, they don't really save the day as much as just give you a slight boost to continue on; and some of the enemy placement - notably the Pain Elementals - is less difficult and more eye-rollingly dickish. I have to agree with some previous assessments in this thread: what many could consider B.P.R.D.'s magnum opus is a pretty good map, though with several serious blemishes that weaken the overall effect. I think it's still one that warrants playing, owing to its significance in the community - and it *is*, in my opinion, and as mentioned before, still rather excellent, though much like Magikal's Citadel at the Edge of Eternity, it very much feels like a map that was created with only pleasing its author in mind. Map25: Desecration Author: Gene Bird Breather-time, courtesy of Gene Bird. As is often mentioned, this is unique in its own way since Gene made it specifically for Cchest2, instead of falling onto his back-catalogue of Blind Alley entries. Being a more recent map from the Grandpa of Doom, the detailing and combat is a *lot* more refined and focused than previously, especially towards the start. Though the very beginning is hampered by annoying fights that can be dealt with piecemeal by exploiting the lifts, it improves with the hectic first outdoor battle, with two platforms - separated by a river of nukage - filling increasingly with Imps, Revenants and Mancubi. Really keeps you on your feet, that one. The next few areas make good use - by Gene Bird standards - of more three-dimensional architecture and height variation, and Gene even throws an Arch-vile in our direction! Wow! The third and final section's a little more of the Gene Bird usual, complete with an early Wolfenstein-esque secret to the right, and another bullshit drop into a pit with an Arachnotron, Tenements-style, though the last few battles are more cramped than his other levels (the final outdoor room which includes teleporting Pain Elementals can be lethal for the unprepared). I still prefer The Pit's anarchic chaos, though Desecration ranks as probably my second-favourite of his maps for Cchest2. So, this marks an end to Gene Bird's mapping career, and quite frankly, it's a shame. Sure, his levels weren't the stuff of legends, but he delivered the goods when needed, and they often served as decent breathers after a particularly challenging (or at least cryptic) level. With this final offering, he showed an increase in aesthetic maturity that was hinted at in Redemption, only to subsequently stop mapping altogether. Much like Sandy Petersen, Gene Bird is a mapper I'd really like to see map again, just to see what his output would be like: would he stick to his SSG-heavy action, or would he try something else? Who knows, but I still have my fingers crossed... Edited February 16, 2023 by Poncho1 9 Quote Share this post Link to post
LadyMistDragon Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Map 27: Gethesemane by Mike "Use3D" Alfredson played with Beed's Attempt at a Cool Arsenal on Complevel 21, UV Use3D made quite the notable splash with his two submissions to the first Community Chest amidst a sea of mediocrity and blandness although they were perhaps a little bit large for the average player preferences. This second effort ultimately proves a little bit easier to navigate, albeit one where I managed to forget entirely about the blue key near the beginning which we barely noticed due to the presence of the Cyberdemon here andf thusly spent probably 8 more minutes in the map than necessary, but there were other things on our mind. In many ways, this is a step up from Mike's previous efforts. The name comes from a garden where Jesus Christ was supposedly tortured. It's one I've never heard but perhaps Alfredson is not North American. In any case, this adopts a sort of torturous hell aesthetic appropriate to the name but with largely tasteful and excellent execution of visuals. Some of the more notable location are the large cave at the beginning, the massive cavern with the castle fort in the center from whence strong encounters can be found at all entrances, the cavern just to the east with several Mancubi around and some really nice columns, a hellish chapel, a sacrificial chamber and some incredible use of Doom 1 red rock and some transparent tunnels, then finally, a cavern towards the northwest which hides a secret room with some Imps. But those flesh floors in certain locations can go die (not to mention, they are even damaging in certain locations?). The combat is....fairly grindy, but thanks to BAaaCA's slight buffing to the weapons, really wasn't bad at all and good thing too because sweaty hands are very annoying. It's just a good thing that there's a Super Shotgun and Megasphere near the beginning because otherwise, the Revenants in the cages would prove kind of annoying, most likely. There are occasional Arch-viles that feel nicely placed, but Mike must not have been feeling it because there's maybe 3-4 the whole map. No matter though, the Revenants and flying balls will be more than enough to contend with. Also, ammo and especially health are tightly controlled, but we can probably agree that's befitting of a late-game map At 450+ enemies, it should be expected that this might take a while, but if the player knows what they're doing, this probably won't take too far from 20 minutes to complete. Although this also means that it's easy to become frustrated and slip up. I died twice, once to Revenants in a certain large, squarish room with a hell knight and baron in the center and once to Lost Souls on that really annoying and narrow bridge in the northwest at around 12 percent health. Despite seeing around 3-4 of them when entering, there were several of them also hanging out below and that's what happened there. There are some cinematic moments with some strong visual storytelling though. Like why is there an Arch-vile in a cage? Just how sacred is the red key location? Because the pentagram and the use of shadows whilst being viciously chewed up by Cacodemons and Lost Souls is actually really nice, I'm in too poor of a mood to call this my favorite, however, Mike is considerably more generous than CyberMenace was to pistol-starters, even giving players a BFG9000 at a certain point that's easy to miss that is probably primarily intended for the large Caco-hordes and occasional Revenant murders encountered through the map. So yes, this could theoretically lead to a lean of some incredibly strong maps, but Map 28 from what I know is quite grindy and neeedlessly so because it has under 300 enemies. At least I'll be playing with another mod though! lmd_ccchest02_27.zip Edited January 27, 2023 by LadyMistDragon 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Monsieur E Posted January 27, 2023 Map26: "Geist Halls" By Dr. Zin, 126/126 kills, 7/7 secrets, 22:49 A flawed map, but I actually liked it overall. The map is kind of weirdly winding, confusing to navigate corridor fighting opposition, has moments of obnoxious combats of lowering a lift into enemies or exploding barrels in one case, and generally I found myself lost at several moments. But, I really like the presentation of this map, the Pink Floyd MIDI selection, the surreal sky, the lowly lit spacebase, turning on the lights in the beginning warehouse, and the secret hunt aspect, including the library with a doomcute sofa with a pretty view of the expanse of space. I would have liked if aspects of the map were changed for a more engaging combat setup, or at the least making it minimal to the point of passive to let exploration take hold, but overall, I think this is a solid map.Map27: "Gethsemane" By Use3D, 453/455 kills, 0/3 secrets, 32:50 To my complete shock, I really enjoyed most of my time in this map. This map gives you your equipment as you progress at a reasonable pace with increasing stregnth and loading you with enough ammo to not simply hoard them for certain moments. I almost always had a choice to use my heavier weapons to reduce the ssg grind but never enough to trivialize the map at the risk of running low on supplies. But once I make progression, I do end up being generously given resources. This kind of ammo pacing is very welcome in cc2, and a significant chunk of the opposition is infact, imps which make them perfect fodder for the ssg while simultaneously providing backup for the heavies to engage with. The progression is confusing definitely, but I think if you stay with the map's flow so to speak, trying to make immediate progress with minimal detours, you will always have some idea of where to go and doors which open via switches are often highlighted by the odd red eyed gargoyle texture. But this does require you to stay engaged with the map because once you get lost and try to do stuff from the start without opposition being an indicator of making progress, you can get lost pretty bad. There are two pretty terrible situations in the map, mostly arising from infinite height of enemies. The first is the ledge walking from hell and the second being the room immediately after with mancubi and imps blocking your descent down. I think it's odd how the blue skull key is an almost afterthought for how minute the affair to get it is while most of the map deals with the red skull key hunt. I haven't even mentioned how good this map looks with its large scale hell caverns, the marble fortresses, the blood flowing through the caverns, all of these add up to make the scale of this map feel grand, I was frequently impressed by the effort that went into making this map look good. I like the well implemented boom features too. As a final note, I like how the switch sequence is just an inverse of each other to make the color indicator match the skull key used to activate them. Gethsemane isn't perfect especially regarding the two terrible sections, and the general confusion of progression and switch-door pairings (often timed) can be tedious if you get lost, but this map turned out to be rather enjoyable experience all around. 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Doomy__Doom Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) MAP26 - Geist Halls Lots and lots of corridors and doors. A desolate tech base feels like a strange theme at this point, although in reality it's just 23-24 having too much of a thematic impact on me. Downright claustrophobic exploration, a carthesian product of computers, doors and awkward if straightforward demons. It's not a bad level in and of itself, but it really brings the stakes down, and not in a "filler map" kind of way. MAP27 - Gethsemane Back to the high stakes in visual department, we are now in some massive heck cavern compex on a quest for... mostly just the RSK, because uhh idk the grandness is unsettling and doomguy would like to go into some small caverns for a change? Given the origins of the name, I guess I could see it as a form of escaping from captivity (in which case, how nice of demons to provide a brown face right away). If map 17 was the "one-secret-ammo-wonder", this one puts a painful onus on the player to find secrets for maintaing health situation. It's not that there's no health at all, but an unfortunate damage roll or two that we all are familiar with can at times turn pressure up for an unclear period of time. I did not like awkward decoration use in some spaces (like the elevated Cyber fight early on), plus negative friction floors will always get a ding from me - doomguy's mobility is so central to how the game feels, please don't mess with it in this particular way. I'd rather dance on conveyor belts. The map was reasonable enough for me with ammo to fuel the long trek, nothing besides the normal kind of ammo management by varying weapons accordingly. Overall, like many maps without properly accented high points in combat - both BSK fight and caco fort are done and dusted so early in the level - it's a nice trek which may feel a tad beed over duration by the end. Votes?.. +++ Temporal Tantrum (28 maps, MBF21) +++ Auger;Zenith & whatever is voted along that I'll think on the 3rd vote for now. Edited January 27, 2023 by Doomy__Doom 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
brick Posted January 28, 2023 GZDoom, Boom compatibility, HNTR, blind, continuous with saves. MAP27 - “Gethsemane” by Use3D I had a bit of love/hate with Use3D's maps during CC1. I really liked No Tomorrow, and I really disliked Another Dead Hero. Gethsemane makes me feel somewhere in-between, or maybe both at the same time. I liked many things about the map, the visuals, the architecture, some of the setpieces, the path to the blue key. There's a great sense of exploration and adventure when you burst into the demonic chapel and interrupt the archvile during some unholy ceremony, then go into the passage behind the chapel and into those strange red tunnels (Boom colormaps are such a wonderful thing). But the map is just too long, too big, the progression is incredibly frustrating in parts. There's the timed switches that open who knows what, so you press and run around trying to see what changed. There's the friction pits that make you move ever so slowly, and when you find ones that also damage you it's reload time. There's the Chasm-like thin winding walkway over such a pit. There's having to recross and re-recross that walkway AGAIN because when faced with two possibilities for going forth you picked the wrong path first and have to backtrack, made worse by so many doors being one-way. There were many individual segments of the map I thought were really cool while playing, but after reaching the end I'm so exhausted that everything is mushed together and I can't distinctly remember them. At this point I wished there was one more Gene Bird map coming up, just so I could catch my breath. MAP28 - “No Room” by Linguica As with other levels made by a Doom community member famous for things other than mapping, I was curious what this would look like. The first room to the east was not a promising start, I found the secret switch (but not how to actually get into the secret - I don't think it's possible on HNTR), which formed a swastika that teleports in a dozen SS. Once past this WTF moment, I ended up loving the map much more than I expected. The entire section leading to the BSK is a fantastic adventure. There's the lava-filled tunnel, and raising the stones that allow you to hop along the river. There's the trip through the intestines of some gigantic worm, leading into its stomach (no, the switch hunts in and out of there don't make sense, but who cares). There's all the running up and down those red rock stairs, with lost souls around each corner; it's easy, it should feel repetitive, but somehow it ends being more atmospheric than anything, and it was fun exploring the passages and trying to find what goodies lay in the optional ones. Then there's that gigantic cavern at the end, alternately going down carved steps and hopping across the rocks high over the lava; the platforming is forgiving enough not to be frustrating, but it's there, and that's enough to add some tension as you try to precariously balance while caco fireballs fly your way and lost souls try to knock you off. And finally there's the surprise ambush after picking up the BSK, with audio and visual special effects thanks to Boom scripting. I thought it all added up to a really fun sense adventure, with strange things around every corner, and I really enjoyed this entire section. Once you're teleported back to the start, the rest of the map is very different. The RSK is a series of combat setpieces (at one point you even press a series of switches that summon an assortment of enemies), none were too much of a problem but they were fun to deal with. The YKC is in a big room with lots of nobles placed above or below floating cubes, creating a clever illusion of 3D. Clearing out the room and dodging green balls is entertaining, but getting the key requires doing the exact same fight against revenants 3 times, and that feels like complete filler. Opening the yellow door leads to a series of fake exits, each one unleashing a wave of chaingunners with no cover. I felt this part overstayed its welcome and soured me on the end of the map. I really enjoyed the vast majority of the level though, and that first adventure part was really great. 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) MAP 28 – No Room by Andrew Stine @Linguica DSDA-Doom v0.24.3, UV, Continuous, blind run w/saves There are not many maps around created by the master of this house. No Room might be considered Linguica’s most fleshed-out work, maybe the only large map he made from scratch that was not a complete tease. Apparently, he could not resist the impulse of making fun of the player, as exemplified by many unorthodox design choices he put in place here. There was something in store for everyone: spiteful ambushes, mockery, humour, tedious leg work, and annoying monster placement, supported by generally nice visuals, purposeful lighting, fascinating scenarios, and appropriate Boom effects. These elements were unequally distributed along my 39-minute first playthrough, with negative ones prevailing in the final analysis. Dropping into the first courtyard and realising that two Arch-Viles lurked in the darkness ready to zap me, and that picking up the rocket launcher summoned Revenant snipers without a place to hide, was the first wake-up call. Pressing the switch and skipping the encounter was the way to go, so I plunged into the lava caverns to fight Cacodemons and Spectres guarding a useless trigger. The lava was not harmful in the cavern (the border was!), then it became damaging in the tunnels, but you can still avoid it by walking on the sunken stones. Seeing is believing. Spoiler A fleshy orifice expelled gory remnants while I was approaching. Yuck! I must go back up through the whole giant intestine, up to the stomach filled with digestive acid, press a switch, and back. A real waste of time, but it was just the first of many. The BSK was lost 4000 units deep into infernal caverns; they contained only a few demon inhabitants, mostly there to annoy me during the never-ending descent down the ultra-steep stairs. The dual Cyberdemon fight on the small islet surrounded by a lake of lava could be skipped by entering the teleporter to the surface, as it happened to me while circle-strafing. Lots of Boom effects on this encounter, they were a bit wasted since you can rocket the bosses from the safety of the BSK shelter. PROTIP: to defeat the Cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies. Spoiler I cleared the rocket launcher courtyard and noticed a secret on the automap; pressing a corpse texture changed the place into a Nazi memorial with SS Officers appearing from a swastika in the middle. I liked that silly cameo more than anything seen so far, and especially the prolonged, rather meaningless streak that separated this point from the exit. Many large rooms with mostly incidental combat, broken by few surprises like the Spider Mastermind. The BFG was given right away for a speedy one-shot, so killing the Imps in the cages required much more time than the boss. Once I recovered the RSK, I must look for the YK in the southern part of the level. A mammoth-sized area with dozens of Barons on cubes was supposed to protect the YK and harass UV-max speedrunners, but it could just be rushed through to press the three switches, snatch the key, and go back to the exit. Spoiler Yeah, the exit. A testament to the worst possible use for the Chaingunners, and an inappropriate tax to pay for continuous players. The last switch with the Arch-Vile was particularly vicious due to the absence of cover; you should better have the BFG ready for that one. No Room can be summarised as a compendium of interesting ideas marred by a taunting attitude, with discomfort being the primary outcome. It surely reflected the intentions of its creator. Edited January 28, 2023 by Book Lord 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
Poncho1 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) Map26: Geist Halls Author: Dr. Zin Due to being musically illiterate, I hadn't heard of this (or any other, actually) Pink Floyd track in its entirety. Man, I should take a break from the movies and get more familiar with old music... Anyway, what's this about? Oh yeah, Doom maps! What we have here is a slowburn techbase that focuses on exploration and secret-finding to muster up its atmosphere. As a result, almost nothing here will kill you, except for a rather cheap ambush at the bottom of a slow lift with a gang of Hell Knights and Barons that seemingly appear out of nowhere. Everything else can be handled with little fuss: the vast majority of the monsters are low-tier types such as hitscanners, Imps and Pinkies, though there are a few Cacodemons and Revenants dotted about. The end also has a Cyberdemon... not that it matters, since he can either be completely skipped or made mincemeat of with a hidden Invulnerability. As such, Geist Halls turns out to be one of the easiest maps of the WAD, rather surprising given its map slot. What the level effectively amounts to is a detailing showcase: crate mazes, machinery, windows looking out onto vistas (with a cosy-looking blue chair as well), supply storage rooms, et al. I mean, it's all rather quaint, but when the gameplay's rather tedious, I'd have preferred a little more umph in the action department, to the point of sacrificing some of the map's good looks for good fights. Bah. It's still a decent level, though it lacks the combat intricacies of some earlier efforts. Map27: Gethsemane Author: Mike Alfredson (Use3D) I recall the first time playing this WAD last year, seeing Use3D's name at this map's opening intermission screen and expecting the worst. My track record with Use3D hasn't been particularly positive: I don't like either of his contributions to the first Community Chest, and nor did I enjoy his more recent work, such as Map04 from the second episode of Back to Saturn X. Having said that, Gethsemane is, overall, actually rather fun. Though the main theme of the map is a standard Hell map (filled with hellish red rock, marble, wooden beams, magma cracks and whatnot), the detailing is quite commendable: I liked the pit where the second secret is (the Megasphere one), where the stalagmites give the impression that the cave almost has a set of teeth; there's a communion-looking area with an Arch-vile minister, and another Arch-vile's trapped behind a cage. Has he been misbehaving? Use3D also uses a visual gimmick [seen as far back as Map07] to change the colour of the screen in a couple of small rooms with Barons. Spooky... The central area with the Red Key is also - by mid 2000s standards - very cool, and makes for a good place to have a large slaughterfest. Which brings me to the gameplay: Use3D throws pretty much all the good guns at the player in the first few minutes and frequently loads the player up with supplies throughout, so the difficulty is mostly based off of one's skills in using said resources and using the map's terrain to one's advantage, which I enjoyed. Use3D's especially generous with Cells and Rockets, so I'd lean on the Rocket Launcher and BFG for a lot of the fights. There are indeed some things to complain about, such as Use3D's typical knack of having doors open with switches that are miles away from them, and the hellish intestines that slow the player down (there's even a rather aggravating platforming area with Lost Souls where the intestines also deal 20% damage, and if you fall off on the right side, I think you can't get back out. *tut tut*). However, the intestines aren't use(3)d too much, thank Christ. The Caco/Pain Elemental/Arachnotron swarm at the end is nothing short of a power fantasy, what with the abundance of ammo at your disposal. I'm happy to announce that Gethsemane is one of my favourite levels in Cchest2. Well done, Use3D. Map28: No Room Author: Andrew Stine (Linguica) In my mind, probably the stupidest level that Cchest2 has to offer. Say what you will about Gene Bird, but he made innocently simple quickie maps that weren't terribly taxing to complete, nor did his levels overstay their runtime. Linguica may be held in very high regard - for good reason - for cofounding Doomworld, but when I see a bad map, I won't hold back. Visually, the detailing is, as with the previous few levels, of a good standard, though I'm not a fan of the abrupt transition from wooden area, to full-on Hell, to sewage-green brick: it feels as if three different maps were haphasardly slapped together at the last moment. Though Linguica's sense of [dark] humour is occasionally successful, such as the bizarre Nazi secret where you get to massacre those bastard, uh, blue-shirts, I wasn't particularly amused by his seemingly-trollish sense of progression, which is most apparent in the Hellish area. There are tons of winding passageways with Lost Souls that often lead to a couple of items that don't really warrant the trip, inescapable pits with Pain Elementals, large wide-open areas with Mancubi, barely-noticeable staircases, descending columns hovering above 20% damaging lava, and a fight with two Cyberdemons (have fun with those last two parts, Pistol-starters). And that's technically only a third of the map's frankly boring set-pieces. The Blue Key area doesn't fare much better, in that it revolves around a very anticlimactic encounter with a Spider Mastermind and three teleport traps of Revs, Hell Knights and Barons. Yawn. The Red Key area is probably the most infamous, given that it has a good 25 Barons suspended on floating cubes: they were placed there specficially so Linguica could, and I quote, "thumb [his] nose at max speedrunners". Well, jokes on him, since I indeed decided to kill them all. If the map ended with that, it'd still be bad, but the ending is just an annoying clusterfuck of repetitive "ha, gotcha!" Chaingunner traps that are as irritating as they are bullshit. Maybe Linguica's intent was to piss the player off, and I suppose in my case he succeeded, but in my mind, that's not what makes a good map, and as a result, I stand by the fact that, in spite of its technical competence, this is the worst map in Cchest2. Edited January 28, 2023 by Poncho1 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
LadyMistDragon Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) Map 28: No Exit by Andrew "Linguica" Stine Played with Vesper Midi: "Scarlet Fortress" from the Plutonia Midi Pack (though I would suggest changing it to something like "Denied" behind the blue key door) Stine is probably more known for his various other contributions than his Doom maps, with this easily being the most high-profile project that he made a map for. It's also one where it seems he can not resist trolling, confounding, and overall pissing the player off. It's actually far less grindy than I was expecting from the title and truthfully, it would have probably been slightly easier without Vesper because of how Ichor grenade shots will leave a poison cloud that may slightly melt the player's insides. Although it's probably a better idea to leave the Revenants here alone. I skipped past the rather 4chan ish SS secret. Doomwiki claims an Arch-vile jump is needed to reach the ledge here and failing to hit with a press, we didn't feel like wasting any more time here. It is right after this that the best section of the entire map is. The likely Map 29 of Alien Vendetta-inspired blood river leads into a series of largely narrow but incredibly beautiful crimson-red caverns and even some flesh tunnels every now and then! The narrowness of some of the passageways seems determined to make us think that there's a trap around every corner, but that's simply not the case. This all culminates in a massive and darkened cavern at the end of some platforming that's quite easy by Doom standards and a blue skull key that triggers a Cyberdemon ambush not really that hard to avoid. I'm reallly glad I didn't make myself listen to "Nobody Told Me About Id" for the second time because otherwise, the atmosphere would have surely gone out the window. The red key section, is then, again, a green-bricked and half-open area with a series of cramped and rather threatening ambushes before culminating in a courtyard with a BFG and a Spider Mastermind placed directly in front of you. Although with Vesper, she goes down far easier than she would otherwise. The Revenants which appear after hitting a switch are far more of a threat, and the Imp window dressing is annoying, though not the worst at all by any means. I wouldn't recommend punching every Revenant here vanilla either. Then behind the red door are some more hallways, leading to a rather bullshit section that would have certainly been scrapped or modified to activate crushers from some ultra-secret involving......Barons of Hell. They aren't terribly threatening but they will consume your time. Makes the Rev groups which appear every time you hit a switch in a side room that much more uninspired in the first place. But the last room on the other hand....isn't. Because press the switch and bam! chaingunners! press another switch and bam! chaingunners! This process is repeated two more time. Because Ling loves to use the same joke over and over again. When the real exit is opened, the monster at the end is, of course, an Arch-vile. Probably this section was meant to frustrate blind runners because there is no logical reason why one would abuse Boom to spew the same stupid trap over and over again. It made clearing the last part of this impossible after a bit because Andrew, being an immature goon at the time, decided this would be the spot where little to no health would be provided. Having said that, I overall liked this map. But it feels disconnected and something like this where even the best sections just feel trollish (scattered Lost Souls in the BK cave that you can admittedly mostly shoot from close range)there was a hidden cave with a Supercharge hanging over a pit where I initially skipped a Pain Elemental because of how low she was compared to the others). It's probably better than Map 13, but that's about as far as this ranking goes. A map with some lighter trolling could have potentially made this a contender (like the next map which seemingly everyone likes) but the chaingunner traps at the end were beyond redundant and evidence of what happens when one takes the concept of humor too far. lmd_ccchest02_28.zip Edited January 28, 2023 by LadyMistDragon 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Azure_Horror Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) Everything was played with DSDA-Doom, Saves, Pistol Starts, UV-difficulty. Map 21 Undead Nation by Draconio Mod: No Mods A simple map: Doom1-inspired design plan with some Doom 2 elements used to diversify gameplay. Basic visuals, normal gameplay loop. On one hand - nothing memorable here. On the other hand - a relaxing level is very welcome after map 20! Notable detail: map starts with a chainsaw and has some ammo-starvation gameplay elements. Community Chest 2 keeps preparing the ground for The Mucus Flow - that's a clear impression I'am getting! Map 22 Thematic Elements by @Lutrov71 & Jimi Mod: Antaresian Reliquary first, later replayed without mods. First playthrough left a sour taste in my mouth – the ambushes eventually got on my nerves and the health situation at the second half didn't help. But reading the reviews by other Club Members pushed me to examine the map more carefully. And now I feel that the map clicked for me. I feel that there are two notable aspects of this map's gameplay: - On one hand, there is celebration of all things Plutonia Experiment. Ambush-happy design and twisted healing curve is part of the experience. - On the other hand, @Lutrov71 once again shows his uncanny ability to anticipate "Modern" gameplay trends. Quite a few fights, especially during the blue card saga, felt Proto-Valiant! Given that Valiant was released in 2015 – it is very unexpected to meet its vague gameplay traits in the map from 2004! And no, I did play Vanguard. But Thematic Elements felt more Valiant than Vanguard to me. It's very uncanny, what else can I say? This map is rough around some of its edges, and thus it is not a part of my top 3. Nevertheless, this is a very impressive map. Arguably, it is groundbreaking for 2004. I wonder, how Doom mapping would have developed, if this Community Chest 2 map became as famous as the Map 24 did? Map 23 Death Mountain by Cyber-Menace Mod: All kind of mods! I Love replaing this map! Never played Zelda, so I cannot say, if the map is faithful to the source material. That said, the map felt very faithful to the idea of retro-gaming in general: - The music is perfect for arcadey adventure. - The sky-floor outside playable spaces seems to indicate "Void behind the level boundaries". Such void is a real staple of many older games, especially some isometric ones. I never have seen such use of Doom Sky Floor. - There is a lot of nooks and crannies, and naturally they include some hidden goodies! - The Boom silent teleporters are used to create "sub-levels", like caves, tunnels and building interiors. This retro-gaming design felt very cool to me. Those subareas were wonderful! I hope, if @Doomkid decides to make a Boom-compat mapset one day, he shall use this level as one of his sources of inspiration! A pair of semi-random observations to close the review: - The sector stumps are abundant on this map. They are intended as decorations, however they have an unexpected gameplay dimension: they allow you to dodge upwards! It feels like a silly setpiece fight waits to be built around this gameplay mechanic... - There is no need to hunt a sergent on a pistol start. There is a combat shotgun on the ground in the very first section. However, it is hidden behind one of the sector stumps. Map 24 The Mucus Flow by B.P.R.D I said everything already. The Mucus Flow has both great strengths and glaring weaknesses. I do not think that this map should be advertised as a 'must play level'. It flaws are too glaring, IMHO. But the legacy of this map is legendary. The historic importance of The Mucus Flow is undeniable! Map Rankings Spoiler The maps I like: Map 15 City Heat by The Ultimate DooMer Map 31 Ideé Fixe by Sarge Baldy Map 06 The View by Lutrov71 Map 23 Death Mountain by Cybermenace Map 22 Thematic Elements by Lutrov71 & Jimi Map 32 Sodding Death by chopkinsca Map 04 Deja Vu by GeneBird Map 11 Beyond Pain by Exile Map 03 Slidge Control by The Flange Peddler Map 07 To Hell and Back by The Flange Peddler Map 01 The Furnace by Erik Alm Map 08 The Pit by Gene Bird Map 24 The Mucus Flow by B.P.R.D. Map 19 The Marbelous Three by Hirogen2 Map 18 Internal Reaches 3 by Kaiser Map 17 Through the Black by Andy Leaver Map 12 Redemption by Gene Bird Map 14 Shadow of Evil by Mephisto Map 02 Coolant Platform by iori Map 13 Annihilation Invention by PsyRen Map 05 Elixir by RjY Map 10 Intermission by Volteface Average / OK maps: Map 20 Enigma by The Flange Peddler Map 16 Spirit World HQ by Gene Bird Map 21 Undead Nation by Draconio Map 09 The Transformer by Graf Zahl Edited January 29, 2023 by Azure_Horror 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
Andromeda Posted January 28, 2023 16 hours ago, brick said: MAP28 - “No Room” by Linguica The first room to the east was not a promising start, I found the secret switch (but not how to actually get into the secret - I don't think it's possible on HNTR), which formed a swastika that teleports in a dozen SS. I believe you're meant to arch-vile jump into the secret sector, but it's also possible to jump from the upper platform to the top of the switch in that room and from there to the secret - it's trickier, but allows you to save some health. 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
brick Posted January 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Andromeda said: I believe you're meant to arch-vile jump into the secret sector, but it's also possible to jump from the upper platform to the top of the switch in that room and from there to the secret - it's trickier, but allows you to save some health. I assumed when I looked into the editor that the AV jump was needed, but on HNTR the 2 archviles in the alcoves are replaced by revenants. I didn't realize there was an alternative, thanks for pointing it out! On 1/27/2023 at 2:49 AM, Book Lord said: The positive about #1kill and its sequels is the brevity, as most of the maps are completed in roughly 15 minutes, with only a couple exceeding 20 minutes (blind). There is nothing like the 1 hour epics that characterised CChest2, so I think they are very suitable for the shorter month of the year. That's good to know, thanks! I'm excited to see them in the lead now, and am even more looking forward to playing through them. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted January 29, 2023 MAP 29 – Event Horizon by Boris Iwanski @boris DSDA-Doom v0.24.3, UV, Continuous, blind run w/saves In 2004 Boris Iwanski was already a veteran of the Doom community, where he started contributing at the end of the 20th century under the nickname of Tarin. He had made awesome progress since his early deathmatch WAD Forgotten Base, and he could design fantastic tech-bases with cool storytelling elements. Event Horizon had everything one can want from a classic Doom level, updated through the use of modern editors and Boom features. Boris was an early proponent of Doom Builder, and he played an active role in the development of Doom Builder 2 and its recent “Ultimate” fork. Spoiler What seemed an ordinary human-made installation soon revealed itself as a corrupt tech-base, featuring infernal chambers full of blood, marble, and hellish imagery that interrupted the apparently regular succession of warehouses, laboratories, and computer stations. The eerie atmosphere was reinforced by that huge, disconcerting flesh crocodile that broke through the southern wall, protruding its 6-eyed head and grotesque mouth in the direction of the large stone formation at the heart of the complex. The beast looked important, though getting to stick a finger in each of its two rows of eyes required quite a bit of wandering. Spoiler A long though largely satisfying exploration took me from one switch to the other, without ever feeling lost or clueless about where to go next. I was not always aware of what every button or lever did, especially the ones that opened distant doors or changed remote rooms, though I was always able to notice new paths that became available. Firstly, I cleared the western part where the beast was lingering, then a teleporter sent me to the eastern portion of the base, consisting of laboratories with lots of fancy effects going on. The voodoo doll commanding the rotating fans broke on my playthrough for some reason, though I could appreciate the moquette floor turning into blood, and green slime pouring from a newly revealed outside area into one of the previous hallways. Some backtracking was required to collect the RK and the BK in a quick sequence, with the base constantly changing and opening new areas and elements to check. Spoiler Pressing the blue switch revealed the RSK guarded by two Cyberdemons, it connected the two halves of the base, and it raised all blue bars, allowing to get close to the flesh horror from the right side. The left side was accessed just a few minutes later, after checking the western warehouse and killing the Arch-Vile that was alerted a long time before. Closing the beast’s eyes transformed the central cavern, revealing a mystic portal guarded by four Barons of Hell. It brought me in front of a tall marble tower in a hellish landscape, that I must ascend to find the BSK. The transition to a dramatic elevator rise with teleporting Demons was finely crafted, and it was followed by an entertaining teleport of Hell Knights and Revenants in the upper chamber. Spoiler All that was left to do was to bring the skull keys to the green slime area, place them on top of their altars, and deal with the Arch-Vile and the snipers appearing on the surrounding wall. I found only the secret Combat Armour, missing the Soul Sphere and the “Boris was here” BFG room, locked by a well-hidden YK. That was just clever secret design, complementing a fascinating map full of marvels, kept interesting by good incidental combat interposed between the standout encounters. Event Horizon closed the regular levels of Community Chest 2 on a very high note. 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
Veeda Vidlak Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) Yay, its the weekend. Time to catch up. Map 25: Desecration (GZoom, complevel 9, UV pistol start) Our fifth and final level by Searcher. Desecration is placed perfectly in the megawad, providing fast-paced but forgiving super shotgun combat to calm the nerves from Map24. Not only that but this is easily Bird’s most advanced map, letting him head out on the high note I was hoping he would. While the marble, wood, and stone theme is classic Bird, the aesthetics here are pretty good compared to his earlier works. Rooms look nice, layout is solid, and the area themes feel organic. Other commenters have mentioned that this is the only level he made for CC2 (with the others being older works added to get to 32) and that should absolutely be considered when criticizing his prior maps. Rather than lambast them for being dated, we should appreciate their inclusion so we actually have a megawad to play. Same thing as Graf Zhal’s map. Even better, the combat flow I enjoyed in levels like The Pit is back, letting you blitz through rooms like you’re on speed. So much fun! There’s something about Searcher’s SSG combat that has felt fulfilling in this wad, and I think it’s the monster density mixed with the closed but not cramped fighting. It seems like I’m always killing something and there’s very little dead time, just 10-15 minutes of carnage. I don’t have any major issues with Desecration. There is some backtracking, but it’s nothing serious, taking just a few seconds to complete. I guess there are some oddities… Having to lower the blue key like a platform, the lift leading to the yellow key being a bit hard to spot, and another drop into a nukage pit with a spider. Doesn’t matter. Those nitpicks do nothing to detract from what is a quality vintage old-school rumble. A great wind down from The Mucus Flow and a great sendoff for Gene Bird. Thanks for the good times Searcher! Map 26: Geist Halls (GZoom, complevel 9, UV pistol start) You know what? I love community wads. There’s a rawness to many of their levels that would get ironed out in more polished products, and I enjoy playing these unrefined maps that feel like they’re brimming with ideas. Geist Halls is another entry in this category, presenting a rather off-kilter techbase with more than a few eccentricities. The memorable Pink Floyd midi is certainly on brand. You start in a dark, ammo-low crate maze and I’d highly recommend finding the plasma gun secret here or you’ll be fighting for ammo the entire level. Pressing forward you’ll move through a plethora of small hallways and rooms sprinkled with hitscanners, pinkies, and a handful of meatier encounters against cacos, barons, and the like. The cramped fighting reminds me of Requiem to an extent, though the doomcute sense of place is classic TNT. You have all sorts of examples, the armory, the living quarters with a sofa, the helipad, and all the whirring thingamabobs you pass by during your stay (maybe a production facility of some sort). There isn’t much here that can cut you into little pieces, but there are a couple moments that are uncomfortable. The beginning is certainly awkward from pistol start. You don’t have enough shells to take out all the demons and they can pin you down rather easily. Meanwhile, the hitscanners on the catwalk above can hit you almost anywhere in the room. The second example is on the floor with the press and other machinery. A group of nobles spawn in after you get the yellow key and you can get cornered if you’re lacking in plasma. Any other serious damage is probably the result of getting blindsided by a hitscanner. You also have plenty to work with if you find the secrets, which I found to be creatively implemented. A quirky map I’ll probably remember as “the one that played One of These Days” when I think back on CC2. Good times. Map 27: Gethsemane (GZoom, complevel 9, UV pistol start) I admit I kind of braced myself when I saw Use3D as the author. His maps I’ve played are ambitious and… I’ll be nice and go with sophisticated, requiring significant investments of time and focus. Naturally, Gethsemane is exactly as I expected and leads the player on a long, convoluted switch hunt that is terrible to do blind but actually not too bad with some foreknowledge. The starting area gives the player a megasphere right away, so at the very least the combat isn’t off to a brutal start. It’s still annoying to clear the area and one thing you’ll probably come to dislike is the slow friction “gut ponds” dotting the map. Here, they’re great ways to get hit by revenant missiles while clearing the cages but you can use the corner bars as cover to avoid frustration. Moving on, we enter a massive chamber filled with various mid-tiers that’s best ignored for now. Grab the plasma and skedaddle through the wooden skull door in the southeast, where you can obtain the rocket launcher and BFG in short order. After briefly returning to the hub to clear it with the BFG, I continued onward and discovered that walking through this map is a nightmare. Simple activities like activating a lift required backtracking to hit a switch, using that switch to return to the same area (but on a platform), then hitting another switch to ride the lift up. There are numerous examples of needlessly byzantine progression but the most egregious occurrence is early on the path to the red key (which constitutes most of the level). You have a hellish jail area surrounded by red caverns that requires multiple instances of traveling on winding escapades to find the switch that opens the next door (once, you have to go back through if you want to open the door again). I’ll also note it isn’t clear at all what switch opens what door (some of which are timed!) giving this level full-blown “what did that switch do” syndrome. Getting to the fighting, much of it complements the map design, but there are too many encounters serving to annoy or cheapshot the player. There are a lot of examples of slow friction awkwardness, unkind enemies behind doors you have to rush through, and “gotcha” archvile or mancubi placement. At one point you have to make a blind drop into a pit of damaging floor with mancubi, imps, and sniping revenants, which draws a penalty flag. The worst example, however, is the Chasm like serpentine walkway over a 20 damage slow-friction gut pond littered with lost souls. I’d recommend spamming the pillars with rockets to clear out as many as you can because this is bullshit. That said, some fights are pretty fun, especially with the BFG. The hub area is nice “click and they die” stress relief, I liked the rough terrain arena with the cyberdemon (though I can see people disagreeing here), and the stairs with the rocket launcher at the bottom threatens the player with solid enemy types and placement. In general, you have enough recovery items to deal with what’s sent at you and ammunition is plentiful, even cells. Also, as expected, Gethsemane was a much better experience the second time around. Most of the map’s issues are ameliorated by knowing what’s coming and my time was almost cut in half from my blind playthrough. I know I'm complaining a lot but truthfully I’d say this map is fine. The progression is definitely too arcane but notably, compared to Enigma, I actually had less trouble finding my way forward. At the 27 slot I’m perfectly accepting of a labyrinthine epic and Gethsemane’s various flaws didn’t turn me off enough to dislike it. Not great, not terrible, just a good ole BFG fest switch hunt. Edited January 30, 2023 by Veeda Vidlak 10 Quote Share this post Link to post
Azure_Horror Posted January 29, 2023 Map 25 Desecration by Gene Bird (@Searcher) UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9, No mods Behold! A map by Gene Bird for Community Chest 2, with beautiful visuals! (Nothing too fancy, but definitely on par with map 22. Much more polished than, say, map 05 or map 12) Before going further, I needed to say something about some other maps by Gene Bird. Why I like CC2 maps 04 and 08? The visuals are lacking, and the combat is SSG focused, incidental and very simplistic at a first glance. However, those two maps in particular manage to mitigate a major pitfall of many SSG-focused levels: they manage to nerf super-powerful chokepoints. Corners/chokepoints are strong on map 04 & map 08, but less strong than on map 14, map 17 or map 18. Gene Bird's map 12 is notably weaker in this regard, thus I like it much less. And Desecration once again makes chokepoints tricky. The red key room is a great example: fighting downstairs is hard, thanks to all the shotgunners in the room. In all my playthroughs, I had much easier time going ham with a plasma gun instead. On top of that, Gene Bird maintains a fun type of tension during all the map: - Chaingun, plasma or rockets are more handy for most of the fights. - However, those weapons have somewhat limited ammo. - By contrast, shells are everythere, but both shotguns are not the most convienient here. This leads to constant choice of priorities: what weapon is best used for what target? You will not lose outright: there are always shells to fall back. However, suboptimal weapon use can result in a death by thousand cuts, because there is no that much cover on the map, and the demons aoften use some tricks to flank you. Of course, all the above does not mean that the map is hard. By all accounts, it is a happy action-heavy breather map, which is very welcome after grand challenge of map 24. But Desecration is not "You win just because" level. It still includes some challenges. And I love those challenges! Finally seeing Gene Bird brand of gameplay in a properly detailed decorations is also very nice, BTW. Map 26 Geist Halls by @Dr. Zin UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9, No mods To those unfortunate souls, who were devoured by pinkies in the very first room: There is a combat shotgun to the left of your starting position! There is no need to tickle the fat hellspawn on a pistol start. It is map 26, yet the combat and the gameplay in general are very easy! How can this be? The answer is simple: map 26 is built around the atmosphere and the sense of place. All kind of gameplay challenges are secondary! (That said, the map can have some stretches of ammo starvation, if the player misses all the secrets) This map seems to employ the design philosophy of "gameplay should not distract from crucial artistic presentation". This is an opposite approach to the philosophy of maps like Misri Halek or The Mucus Flow: "crucial artistic presentation comes hand in hand with an epic gameplay". (Both approaches have their merits. There is no singular true way.) I must say, focusing 90% of my attention on the atmosphere of the map felt very liberating. Yeah, this was yet another brether map. But you know what? After the Mucus Flow I am happy to have multiple brether maps! Overall, Geist Halls is a nice map, and a good foil to maps like 05, 32, 18, 24 (Elixir, Sodding Death, Internal Reaches 3, The Mucus Flow ). I want to emphasis one thing: despite the easy gameplay, that map felt like a proper adventure! Its atmosphere is a thing of beauty to me! Map 27 Gethsemane by Use3D (@Use) UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9, No mods Others already discussed the gameplay details of this map. Thus I will focus on my pesonal impression only. This is the kind of map I dread to find in community chests (especially 3 and 4): - there is Stuff, which is followed by Stuff, which leads to other Stuff. Nothing bad with Stuff, don't get me wrong! However, such maps feels uniformly normal, have prolonged runtime, and include almost no ebb-and-flow in their progression. End result: despite decent quality of such maps, I can focus on one idea only: "Were is the end? Are we there yet?" Luckily, Gethesmane has an ace up its sleeve: there is a lot of weapon diversity, and even the plasma rifle is given quite near the start! Typically, similar Community Chest 3-4 maps hold strong guns for later, in an attempt to maintain greater sense of progression. (They succeed in maintaining a greater sense of "Are we there yet?" instead...) The diverse arsenal of is a real savior! Despite map feeling uniform and amorphous at times, I had a good time playing it. Thank you, @Use, for giving lots of guns without hesiation! I may consider this map to be among my favorite CC3 and CC4 maps, despite technically belonging to Community Chest 2. Map Rankings Spoiler The maps I like: Map 15 City Heat by The Ultimate DooMer Map 31 Ideé Fixe by Sarge Baldy Map 06 The View by Lutrov71 Map 23 Death Mountain by Cybermenace Map 22 Thematic Elements by Lutrov71 & Jimi Map 05 Desecration by Gene Bird Map 32 Sodding Death by chopkinsca Map 04 Deja Vu by GeneBird Map 11 Beyond Pain by Exile Map 03 Slidge Control by The Flange Peddler Map 07 To Hell and Back by The Flange Peddler Map 01 The Furnace by Erik Alm Map 08 The Pit by Gene Bird Map 24 The Mucus Flow by B.P.R.D. Map 26 Geist Halls by Dr. Zin Map 19 The Marbelous Three by Hirogen2 Map 18 Internal Reaches 3 by Kaiser Map 27 Gethsemane by Use3D Map 17 Through the Black by Andy Leaver Map 12 Redemption by Gene Bird Map 14 Shadow of Evil by Mephisto Map 02 Coolant Platform by iori Map 13 Annihilation Invention by PsyRen Map 05 Elixir by RjY Map 10 Intermission by Volteface Average / OK maps: Map 20 Enigma by The Flange Peddler Map 16 Spirit World HQ by Gene Bird Map 21 Undead Nation by Draconio Map 09 The Transformer by Graf Zahl 10 Quote Share this post Link to post
Poncho1 Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) Map29: Event Horizon Author: Boris Iwanski Huh... here we have what could be considered a remake to The Flange Peddler's Map07 of the same WAD: the gist is that the player has to traverse a complex, highly-detailed techbase and find a bunch of keys, visit Hell and battle a load of demons, come back and then leave. As such, both maps pretty remarkably similar, as if the guys at Cchest2 headquarters were *really* struggling to reach 32 maps. With that said, much like the Peddler's map, this one isn't too bad, either. It benefits from the aforementioned details (I mean, check out those ceiling fans, the fleshy monster that's burrowing into the base, and that moment when the floor turns to blood), and all things considered, it isn't that confusing once you memorise the key (ha) locations. The most fun fight has to be at the top floor of the Hellish tower, though a couple of BFG blasts and rocket spam should be enough to calm the rabid crowd down. The sudden pair of Cyberdemons is a nice shock, too. The majority of the combat however is fairely standard corridor shooting: precise enemy placement and all, but not too difficult, either. As such, Iwanski's version of the penultimate map is miles easier than the one we got in the original Community Chest, but then again, given how ruthless Magikal's map was, I shouldn't complain too much. The secrets warrant mentioning too, since they're rather cleverly hidden without being overly annoying... with the exception of the Yellow Key. I didn't check if you can spot it by looking around the crates, but I just iddt-ed to find out where it was to get 100% secrets after losing my patience. I do like the "Boris was here" graffiti, though. The way to get the secret Supercharge is pretty cool, too. About on the same level as the Peddler's map: good, though a little flawed. Edited January 29, 2023 by Poncho1 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
Crusader No Regret Posted January 29, 2023 Managed to get stuck in the chainsaw secret of map 6. Oh come on. Map 24 retrospective, from 2005: Completed on HMP (saves used liberally) with ZDoom 1.22 Back when CChest 2 was released, there was no one to tell me that nearly all the health and ammo were at the start, the towers were full of respawning zombies, where the keys were, there was a one-time secret, and when the map floods with slime and you are no longer able to backtrack. And then there's the technical errors. Had to learn all this by playing the map. The first point I guessed by inference but the rest was learned the long way. Yes I did shoot about 30-40 zombies in the towers before guessing they would be endlessly replenished. Restart. I kind of cheated the learning process as some point by running through the map with cheats but it's such a slog to do it honestly. Lowering the difficulty level definitely makes the experience faster as the monster density is much lower. Too bad Skill 2 is missing a teleport destination and is thus less viable of a setting. The extent of technical errors feels really sloppy here, enough to measurably lower my perception of the overall map. Testing wasn't that vigorous in 2004 despite how much it mattered as ZDoom behavior back then diverged a lot from Boom/PrBoom and there weren't compatibility options in ZDoom as there are now. Now they weren't enough to prevent me from playing the map to completion, (the atmosphere is that compelling) but they are still present and affect the accessibility of the map. And while having the bulk of supplies in a central location is something I found compelling, the hitscanner guantlet between it and the bulk of the map does feel sadistic (and offputting to a potential player). With the main supply cache at the start, needing to traverse a hitscanner gauntlet every time you want to revisit, a limited supply of invisibilities to deal with that gauntlet, the kill switch for the respawning zombies being located deep, and a one-time secret holding the next largest stash of goods; some foreknowledge and routing to prevent wastage makes the journey feel much more doable. There are individual gameplay elements that really aren't that compelling on their own but do form part of a whole. Example, turret enemies in pillboxes. And they're concealed in darkness. Shooting immobile turrets probably is not compelling to most of the present day playerbase. But because of needing to run a hitscan guantlet to replensih ammo, the ammo cost to deal with them becomes a decision of weighing the cost with the potential benefits (clearing a passage of cover fire and making it safe for future use/passage). Of course, the concealing darkness increases the ammo cost of cleaning out each turret due to missed shots. Probably dickish but at least feels like there's a purpose for that. Luring out lone pain elementals, retreating behind corners, and jumping them with chainsaw when they're close enough probably sounds boring too. But I had the patience to do so as the ammo saved could very well mean fewer trips through the hitscanner towers. Which were shotgunners on HMP, something to consider if one finds the chaingunners of UV too oppressive. Key order I used I believe was blue, red, and yellow. Whichever one let me earn chaingun, plasma gun, rocket launcher. Chaingun so that I can make use of bullets, plasma to deal with heavies on the way to the yellow key. Though it really comes down to preference and what objectives one considers most important. (my route delays reaching the kill switch) Also, I instinctively play to avoid wasting pickups (such as not picking up a set of shells at 48/50; that wastes two shells) and the map seems to reward me for doing that so that drew me in a bit more. With all my yapping about gameplay elements, there are those bits about the setting that stood out. One that stuck out for me was the teleport pads en route to the yellow key with the cables connecting them. One can picture a power source somewhere and guess that monsters are going to appear on them. The clear sky at the nose secret being the only part with clear skies I found to be a neat bit for worldbuilding. (questions of tastefulness and whether it's the source of the slime momentarily set aside) The deserted facility in general. And then there's drowning the whole place in the muck which feels like part of the map's narrative. I found it a compelling journey. Not one I ever plan to make again. Completing the map once did bring that feeling of accomplishment but the various flaws and issues that I and other posters have mentioned prevent me from ever wanting to revisit the map. And monsters stacked on top of each other and stuck weren't enough of a factor (early ZDoom-ism) to expect the experience to be substantially different. 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Veeda Vidlak Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Map 28: No Room (GZoom, complevel 9, UV pistol start) Alright so here we have a map by the lord of the forum, apparently here to abuse his subjects. Let’s get one thing out of the way right now. Linguica is here to troll you. Unapologetically so. If you’re not in the mood for that I’d suggest idclev29. For everyone else, let’s get rolling. You won’t have to wait long to get an idea of what you’re in for as a few steps after the start you find a medium sized room that houses a swastika-filled Nazi secret. I think LadyMistDragon said it best by calling this 4chanish (excellent description) and you need to arch-vile jump to actually trigger it, though not to get all the kills. Anyway, this room is absolutely brutal and I’d highly recommend saving clearing it for when you come back and hopefully have health and ammo to work with. After this tomfoolery you move into a section that looks a lot like AV’s Fire Walk With Me except the lava isn’t friendly this time. You’ll also find out there is a real map here, not just lulzy Third Reich memes. Moving through the level, you’re presented with very strong detailing (some of the best in the wad) mixed with fights worthy of the 28 slot. The combat here is… tough, to the extent I’d argue this map competes with Elixir for second hardest in the wad. The red cavern section that constitutes much of the map leads you deep underground, through some nasty pain-elemental sprinkled encounters and lost-soul filled crevasses. Ammo is very tight, but not unfairly so and if you make your shots count you won’t have to resort to Tysoning anything except pinkies. This area culminates in bunny hopping down a string of platforms to a rocky island floating on a sea of lava (kind of reminds me of PCorf’s Vulcana II) which I find legitimately intimidating. Entering the little blue key hut spawns in a pair of cybies to serve as a boss fight… which you can cheese by just camping in the rock hut and killing them however you like. After walking all the way back you start the red key section (and I’d recommend doing the arch-vile jump now while buffed by the soulsphere from the lava cavern). This area is pretty dangerous, featuring chaingunners, revenants, ambushes, and a spidermomma that guards a BFG. There’s a secret soulsphere here but I’d HIGHLY recommend saving it for the exit section, so do what you can to avoid needing it. After this you have a wide open cross-shaped platform with the yellow key and a bunch of barons on floating cubes that is such an outrageous waste of time I can’t help but respect the audacity of it. Stine outright said they’re there to piss all over speedrunners trying to max and with 16(!) hard to hit barons they do their job well. I’m no speedrunner but I am maxxing, so I just killed them all with mild annoyance (with rockets, save your cells). There's also three rooms with switches and revenants used to get the yellow key, but they don't matter. And now… we get to the last part of No Room. I’d save everything you can for this. Cells for the BFG, the secret soulsphere in the red key area, and the green armor above it. You see… up to this point Linguica’s trolling has been playful, edgy, etc. but here, it takes a turn for the mean-spirited. Upon hitting the “exit” switch past the yellow door you’re dropped into a pit surrounded by chaingunners… then it happens again… and again… and fucking again…. Oh, and also an arch-vile this time. If you don’t want to be at the mercy of the hitscanner RNG gods, come in with the computer map secret (so you can see where the chaingunners will attack from), have all the health and armor you can, and pre-fire BFG shots before each part to wipe out attackers before they can do too much damage. There’s no health here and you can’t go back once you start, so if you come in underequipped you’re boned. The chaingun gangbang at the end is obnoxious stupidity but outside of that I legitimately liked this level. It’s hard, its refined, its impressive to look at, and it has real personality. I’ve come to accept that I want to be abused a little bit so maybe that has something to do with it, but I really enjoyed the challenges here. That said, this level is very much an acquired taste. No Room is long, backtrack heavy, immature, and deliberately infuriating. If you’re not in the right mindset for it, it’s going to be a bad time. Edited January 30, 2023 by Veeda Vidlak 6 Quote Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted January 30, 2023 MAP 30 – In Threes by Mike Watson @Cyb DSDA-Doom v0.24.3, UV, Continuous, blind run w/saves The endgame battle was entrusted to Cyb, a key figure of the Doom modding scene that contributed a lot of maps to idgames archive, many of them receiving awards and being frequently cited as authentic milestones (e.g. Void). Not everyone can achieve some kind of originality in an Icon of Sin map, but he succeeded with In Threes, a level playing with the number three in various forms. It was divided in two parts: a prologue in a symmetric marble shrine, bathed in damaging blood, and the traditional battle against the demon spitter, adjusted for the occasion to accommodate three Icons of Sin. Spoiler The shrine was not particularly entertaining but short enough to avoid any kind of boredom. Enemies came in groups of three, except the Imps that teleported two at a time, and had the side-effect of telefragging Doomguy if he inadvertently blocked their destination. Switches must be pressed three times to advance and three skull keys must be collected. Picking up the Invulnerability sphere released thr… err…four Arch-Viles that were not exactly threatening in that condition, at least with carryover ammo and weapons. Spoiler I received a BFG as a panic button for the endgame fight, but all I needed was to move swiftly, press the face switches, collect the three keycards, and press the Boom 6-key switches close to them to initiate the self-destruction sequence via voodoo dolls. 9 active monster spawners did not really put a lot of pressure, since there were only three spawn spots that caused frequent telefrags. ZZZFACE texture was broken down in many little pieces and carefully aligned to create the three-dimensional demon spitters, a feat that would have been a royal pain with old editors. The scenery was aptly hellish, and I cannot dismiss my first impression that the three Icons were arranged like the crosses at Golgotha. A good way to end Community Chest 2. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post
brick Posted January 30, 2023 GZDoom, Boom compatibility, HNTR, blind, continuous with saves. MAP29 - “Event Horizon” by Boris Iwanski I was really enjoying myself for about half the map. There's some nice architecture, very nice detailing, and those ceiling fans are such a great Boom trick even if they're overused. The initial phase of exploring the map and making notes of what's accessible and what isn't yet, of where each key is, is really fun. I'm not sure what that thing's face is supposed to be but poking it in the eyes and hearing it cry in pain is chilling. The way you flood part of the base with blood, and later the slime breaking through the walls to allow you outside, gives the map a creepy feel. Unfortunately, progression has a couple of annoying points, especially right before you get the red key; up until then I could figure out where I was going and what I was trying to do, but then I pressed a switch and had no idea where to go next, and this involved a LOT of backtracking because there were just too many blocked paths to check. Not long after the map decided that it hadn't thrown enough revenants at me, so I got them in every shape: revenants from a distance, revenant ambush, revenant melee arena, and for the finale, revenant and archvile turret with almost zero cover. I'm sorry to say that I ran out of patience at the arenas and cheated through both of them. I feel like I had a real love/hate feeling while playing through this one. MAP30 - “In Threes” by Cyb The first part is an annoyingly symmetrical key hunt over damaging floor where you go through the same motions in a tiny area pushing the same switches and killing the same revenant several times in a row. It's good that the whole thing can be done so quickly, because it's a particularly uninteresting progression one time, never mind the repetitions. The actual finale is against three (of course) IOS faces that look quite cool in 3D and hanging out in the sky. Thankfully there's no timing or shooting of any kind actually, you just push 3 switches that raise stairs to each of 3 keys then go back and press the 3 switches that are next to each key, and that's it. The pressure comes from the inordinate number of spawners (I counted at least 5), so the arena fills up fast; fortunately the landings are very obvious so you can easily avoid getting telefragged, and the spawns have a tendency to telefrag each other. I thought the IOS part was an interesting variation, but the half before that is so boring that it managed to drag on forever despite taking barely 2 or 3 minutes. Some final thoughts. As with CC1, and indeed most non-themed CPs like the Chests, there's a great deal of variability, zero coherence, and ups and downs in my enjoyment of various mappers and their work. I think I found CC2 more consistent in quality though; I disliked some maps, disliked parts of others, but I think the wad as a whole does not hit the same low points as CC1. There are still problems with the overall pacing, I don't think maps were randomly placed but the ordering is not as careful as it could be. Early on there's a string of very short maps, and late ones struggle with magnum opus syndrome and come at you one after the other, though I found it less exhausting than CC1 at least. Once again I really enjoyed Gene Bird's maps, but there were other pleasant surprises and new discoveries, including Thomas Lutrov's wonderful View, Linguica's No Room (or at least parts of it), Stephen Clark's City Heat (probably my favourite of his); these were by no means the only quality maps though, and I enjoyed many others, some by mappers I did not know and want to look up now, some by veterans that keep me coming back for more. I also always find it fun to see just how different some maps play on HNTR vs UV, some setpieces that I found fun and moderately threatening sound like a pain on UV. I commend mappers who balance for difficulties like this, even if your balancing doesn't always come out perfect I thank you for making sure your maps are accessible to people like me while UV still kicks the butts of those craving a challenge. It was a great wad to play with the DWMC for sure, and I really enjoyed writing my impressions and reading everyone else's thoughts. 6 Quote Share this post Link to post
Doomy__Doom Posted January 30, 2023 MAP28 - No Room Between near enough ammo-deprived trek through lost soul caverns, double goat vs RL match and the meme BFG ammo precognition ending of "haha, you thought you had it all figured out that it's a series of traps with chaingunners, didn't you", the map pretty blatantly tries to be mildly aggravating. Even if that weren't the intent, that is how it looks to me anyway. That's all I got, really. The winning move is clearly to leave Cybers be and enjoy your massive rocket stash elsewhere on the level. MAP29 - Event Horizon A sprawling techbase opening up and slowly revealing demonic corruption is always welcome. A much better placement for "encounters" (cyber duo, BSK, final ambush), although I'd still say RK could use something more high stakes, especially considering optional YK for secret BFG is right there. Secret blue armor is quite essential to figure out, as the only green armor is pretty deep. Or if you're me and take the stupid option of forcing through red bars on 1st playthrough, it doesn't even exist :) Overall lack of consideration for extra items for lower difficulties is also quite apparent - nowadays I'd expect BSK segment to be a bit more generous than some stimpacks, even if the climax fight itself is a circlestrafe to win affair. MAP30 - In Threes IoS that has a some degree of a map before it and doesn't involve shooting rockets from the lift. A win as far as I'm concerned. I got confused by the flipped switches at the start and thought I was softlocked after 1st key. I get that visual symmetry was desired but, like, make 2 switches that lower the floor to make a step via control sector, please. That "lower to floor and then raise a little" feels sooo weird. Still, a movement puzzle instead of rocketing the brain is a cool idea. Conclusion: CC2 wasn't a bad trip to the past, at least for historic perspective kind of reason, but I'm not eager to repeat it due to a severe lack of punchy aggressive moments for my tastes. "There is Stuff, which is followed by Stuff, which leads to other Stuff" honestly nails most of my impressions along the way - I like to have a bit more sine curve in my Doom. Not necessarily within a given map, across the levels is a valid option - which is why I often tend to play 2-3 wads of different kind in parallel. Other than the obvious Mucus Flow, I expect only the city from map 15 will linger in my memory beyond a short visual flashback (like, say, the floating nobles in Gethsemane or the overall impression of sinking blood floors in not!Limbo). The IoS will probably come back to me if I'm activaley thinking on the topic of "what interesting IoS takes I have seen". 8 Quote Share this post Link to post
Monsieur E Posted January 30, 2023 Map28: "No Room"By Linguica, 207/258 kills, 0/3 secrets, 20:20 A map that showed a lot of potential, looked pretty throughout with an appropriate sense of scale, but completely fumbles in making any of it anything but tedious. When you aren't grinding away at boring enemy crowds or snipers including a set of barons intentionally placed to poke fun at UV-Max runs (good thing I quit being adherent on UV-Maxing), you will be dealing against some extremely frustrating monster placements, whether it be the lost souls making traversal across a tight series of platforms a pain, fighting against clusters of enemies including pain elementals and archviles in caverns where you can't even see them properly all while under low health again. The final series of surprises felt extremely rude to players who didn't have enough health on standby considering you will be surrounded by several chaingunners around them with no reasonable react time and lacking enough supplies or cover to reduce the impact of the initial surprise, oh and this segment with an archvile guarding the exit alongside the final set of chaingunners. The map does look pretty, particular the first half involving the hunt for the blue skull key with the gloomy caverns and the cyberdemon duo duel at the ruins in the bottom overlooked by icons of sin, and to be fair you get all of your weapons relatively early on, including a BFG to easily dispense of later ambushes including a spidermastermind. But the tedious combat and the generally dragged out nature of the map makes No Room a disagreeable map. Map29: "Event Horizon" By Boris Iwanski, 164/210, 0/3 secrets, 17:09 An interesting premise, but I regrettably found it boring and occasionally confusing to navigate. Taking place in an abandoned techbase with hell encroaching, you have to track down two skull keys to lower the exit to leave this forsaken compound. I love how the map incorporates hell within the regular techbase, well telegraphed and transitioning seamlessly between the scenes without coming off as a sudden shift in theme, the blood flooding the techbase, the creature with six eyes, and the gradual progression of the hellscape as you make progress bringing in heavier opposition, climaxing in a fight at the top of a hell tower. But frankly, I was lost throughout several moments in this map, unable to locate what switches did what and how the map interlinked overalll, which would become much less of an issue towards the final stretch as the map, particularly once the two sided semicircular rooms bring down the walls as two cyberdemons teleport in. The stairs near the creature also raise later making climbing up the platforms near it a straightforward matter to reach other places. But for most of the map's runtime I was wandering around trying to make progress or find health or ammo I was running low on. The combat is also not really much to note and is rather straightforward, including the climatic duel which can just be circle-strafed. I'm not saying every map should have combat well crafted to the extent of a map made a decade later, but its peer, Gethsemane, already had several exciting and challenging but straightforward combat setups. Ultimately, I think Event Horizon needed further refining to have matched the potential it had laid out. Oh and, while I didn't find it in my playthrough, I liked the BFG secret being unlocked by a hidden yellow key with the message on the wall. Map30: "In Threes" By Cyb, 13/24, 0/0 secrets, 2:47 Why would you ruin a perfectly decent icon of sin setup with an awful opening portion. The actual icon of sin is fine, rather inoffensive because of the straightforward nature of defeating the icons other than the weird keycard/skull key placement order, just keep each pair of colored keys together :p. Plus the arena looks good and if you time it with the invulnerability achieved in the earlier section, you can make it a more straightforward process. But the first segment is legitimately terrible. Walk across mandatory damaging floors four times over, including pressing two switches to open the way forward each time which teleport in imps to "surprise" you which would be completely unremarkable if not for the fact this is a map30 and they can telefrag you. After this, fight against three revenants on damaging floor again a couple of times and you're done. Except it teleports in archviles for the final attempt but thankfully equips you with an invulnerability to run past it. What a horrid way to sour an otherwise fine level.Conclusion Community Chest 2 is.... flawed at best. Barring a handful of maps, most of its maps are subpar and some terrible. And even among the good ones, most of them have some asterisks attached to prevent me from recommending them to anyone else. The scene-stealer Map24 is memorable sure, but I wouldn't say it's a "must-play" simply because it can get on a player's nerves and requires too much foresight for regular players to enjoy, plus in my opinion, it's outdone by several of its spiritual successors (Death-Destiny's maps come to mind) in combat setups, challenge, entertainment value, and even in regards to invoking a similar melancholic fascination in the case of Elysion. Furthermore, it's also outdone by B.P.R.D's own map, Grove in a similar regard. M24's magnum opus-ness makes it overshadow its peers (including those which surpass it in my mind) which, considering I singled it out again to talk out here, is further evidence of how it dominates the conversation of the wad, unfortunately. CC2 isn't boring in any way, it's a mixed bag to put it lightly but I disagree with an assertion that most of the maps are forgettable and a silver-lining of the DWMC's playthrough I hope is shedding light on the rest of the maps. Also, even if I was hard on several of the maps, I want to assert that I don't think those bad maps are vindictive on any mapper's skills as I have noted that several of these mappers have gone on to have more higher accomplishments. Furthermore, many of these maps I disliked were liked by other members of the DWMC and vice-versa so I imagine others can have fun with them as well. I'd like to thank CC2 team for organizing and making the wad! As for my favorites: 5) Map19- The Marbelous Three 4) Map14- Annihilation Invention 3) Map15- City Heat 2) Map27- Gethsemane 1) Map01- The Furnace As per usual, doing writeups and reading others' writeups was a lot of fun, hope to see you all again in February! 9 Quote Share this post Link to post
FistMarine Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Hello everyone! I didn't join this month earlier because I already played/finished Community Chest 2 exactly a year ago, using PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4 (cl9) on UV setting (100% everything where possible, continuous with saves). I first played the megawad a decade or so ago with Aeons of Death mod for ZDoom and replayed it properly a year ago in PrBoom+. I was not going to replay the entire megawad or whatever, I just watched videos of cchest2 to refresh my memory on the maps themselves. I also managed to recover some of my cchest2 screenshots uploaded on other Doom forums, as I've lost them in a hard drive crash back in September (no, I still haven't recovered my old data and I lost any hope of that). I'm sorry if I didn't write too much about the maps, as I don't remember much about them and whatever I wrote in a text file about a couple cchest2 maps (while I was doing a playthrough back then) is lost on my old hard drive. :( What I did on my PrBoom+ playthrough of Cchest2 was play MAP24 until the part where I couldn't progress any further (other than using cheats like IDCLIP and TNTEM to finish the map), then pistol start MAP25 by warping to it with command line parameters. After finishing the megawad, I went back to pistol starting MAP24 using ZDoom 2.8.1 and abused the shit out of saving (using multiple save slots), mouselook, jumping and crouching to complete that map 100%. I don't care if that is considered cheating, as when playing ZDoom family ports, I like to use mouselook, jumping and crouching, since there are plenty of ZDoom maps/mods that require these features. My thoughts about each map inside the spoiler: Spoiler MAP01: The Furnaceby Erik Alm (Eric Alm) A nice intro map by the creator of Scythe series. There are a few challenging fights like the two Hell Knights in the cave and the last fight in the level but other than that, I don't recall many difficult fights. The only advice I can give is to keep calm during the 2 knights fight, while at end you can just run back and fight the revenants and demons outside. I remember getting lucky in this map because things could have went wrong especially with one or two homing missiles that nearly caught me but thankfully dodged them in last second. The blue armor will also be a great help for the upcoming maps! MAP02: Coolant Platformby Trevor Primmett (Iori) A nice map inspired by DOOM E1 maps. When I played the map, I was wondering if this was meant to be released for Ultimate Doom and the author decided to donate to Community Chest 2 or whatever. Regardless of the intention, I had fun with it and highly recommend it. While I got 100% everything, I recall there was a backpack (outside of playable area) that didn't teleport into the level. Not sure why but I checked the map separately in ZDoom with cheats (such as IDDT, since ZDoom has a feature to display sprites on automap, really helps finding missed items). But other than that, this was a nice map, although felt a bit out of place from a megawad like this. MAP03: Slige Controlby Ian Cunnings (The Flange Peddler) Another nice map. The invisibility sphere secret was a great help against the hitscanners. Not much else to say. MAP04: Deja Vuby Gene Bird Here is the first of Gene Bird's maps and I think this map is merely okay but somewhat forgettable. Feels like a map released in the mid 90s. I'm not in the mood of reviewing this map properly but I will say, despite Gene Bird making forgettable maps, I don't think he deserves to be the punching bag of Community Chest 2 when there are a couple way worse maps later on. MAP05: Elixirby Rob Young (RjY) Ah, this is one of the maps I remember back then kicking my ass, when I played cchest2 first time with Aeons of Death mod. Thankfully, this time around, I don't recall dying but I sure came close to dying a couple of times. There are plenty of nasty traps and there is also a Cyberdemon boss fight at the end. On a continuous run, this map is tolerable because of all the stuff you can bring from the previous maps. But on a pistol start, from the videos I've watched, this doesn't seem fun at all! The only advice I can give is to try conserving the health, armor and ammo as much as you can. Easier said than done. Good luck! I did not like this map too much (though the interior of factory was quite nice) but I found it more tolerable than a certain overhyped map coming up later in the mapset. MAP06: The Viewby Thomas Lutrov (Lutrov71) What's up with the maps where you can't get 100% everything? I know there's a few infamous maps later in the mapset but I found a bit strange that a couple of the maps were tested in ZDoom only. With that said, the map is interesting but can get quite difficult at times, so be alert at all times, as the monsters like to ambush you from all sides. Oh yeah and you can reach 4/5 (80%) secrets in total, the last one reachable secret in particular requiring an AV jump to reach in PrBoom+. I think the fifth secret was only possible to reach in ZDoom, I don't remember well but I'm pretty sure I was able to get 80% secrets maximum in my PrBoom+ playthrough. Without the AV jump, maximum you could get is 60%. I think I liked this map overall, despite some issues. MAP07: To Hell and Backby Ian Cunnings (The Flange Peddler) Another interesting and challenging map, it's another one of those techbase maps but this time you have an interesting twist happening near the end where you end up in hell and must take on a horde of enemies (barons, cacos, arachnotrons and mancubi) all at once. I had fun with this one and I think it's one of the highlights of cchest2. MAP08: The Pitby Gene Bird Disappointed that it's not on the MAP09 slot. :P Anyway, here is another Gene Bird map and it's not good, to be honest. I think it was worse than MAP04. I even run low on health at some points but thankfully made it out alive. All I can say about this map is that it is very ugly (even for 90s standards) and I hate getting blocked by the infinite height monsters! :P MAP09: The Transformerby Graf Zahl Wait, Graf Zahl made a map before? I don't think I knew that until I played CChest2! :P Anyway, the map is alright, it's not very challenging (though it has plenty of shotgunners that can deal some good damage if you aren't careful) and it is rather short. MAP10: Intermissionby Simon Broadhead (Volteface) It's alright. I like how short and easy it was. Even the Cyberdemon at the end didn't pose that much of a threat. MAP11: Beyond Painby Dennis Meuwissen (Exl) (Exile) As you can tell from the title, this map can be painful at certain times, as I remember getting shot quite often and even running low on health. The map's difficulty compensates by giving a lot of blue armors, which is interesting because if you use the blue armor carefully, then maybe you would need only two pickups at most. I don't have much to say beyond that I found it alright. MAP12: Redemptionby Gene Bird Guess what time is it? Yep, it's time for another Gene Bird map! This one seemed fine, a huge improvement compared to the author's previous offerings, as the title of the map may have hinted at. Although I will admit that I wish there was more texture variation in Gene's maps because looking at the same gray or green corridors gets boring quickly. Even then, I have to give points to Bird for improving mapping and I'm looking forward to his next two maps! MAP13: Annihilation Inventionby Jeffrey Graham (psyren) This was a fairly interesting map. Reminded me a bit of some TNT maps. The ambushes were tricky but not impossible to deal with. The ambush involving many monsters when grabbing the soulsphere was the most interesting one, though nothing stops you to backtrack to step back in the previous room. There is an invulnerability located in between those monsters, you just need to wait until the monsters moved out of the way to grab it. Or just go back to the previous room if you want a safe way to deal with the ambush. MAP14: Shadow of Evilby Mephisto A somewhat simple level that shouldn't give you too much of a trouble. The only problem for continuous players (assuming they started the level with 200% health and armor) is that there aren't any soulspheres/blue armors/megaspheres, so try to get hit as little as possible, to conserve your health and armor, because the next map is quite tough! ;) MAP15: City Heatby Stephen Clark (The Ultimate DooMer) Ah, I remember this map! This is from the same author that brought us MAP01 and MAP20 from the first Community Chest. And as you can expect, it is fairly tough. It is also the first map that killed me in this megawad, four times in fact! Though two of the deaths were kinda bullshit by getting hit by a homing revenant missile that I actually dodged but somehow managed to circle back at me and roll high enough damage to one hit kill me. The most interesting thing about City Heat is that monsters will spawn in the central area after 10 minutes have passed. This happens three times, with the last wave containing two (three?) Cybers and one Spider in addition to what spawned previously! You can make them all infight and the Cybers will still be alive, meaning you must take them down yourself! Another interesting thing is that monsters seem to have trouble navigating under those bridges. They get stuck or even warp inside walls. I actually had to use IDDT and IDCLIP to check after I finished the map, to find the last enemy, which turned out to be a chaingunner stuck inside a wall. After quitting game to reset cheats, then starting the game and loading my save, I managed to find a way to kill that Chaingunner inside wall by launching one or few rockets at the wall he was stuck. So please check the walls if you are missing an enemy. ;) I imagine this is another side effect of the map being tested mostly in ZDoom but at least here it works fine in PrBoom+ and can still be 100% completed in the end, which is something I can't say the same about a certain map later on. I also like the numbered doors and switches, where you can keep track of the ones you have pressed and the remaining ones. This makes progression much less confusing and I wish mappers would adopt this method more often. I usually see this method adopted in Duke3D user maps but I don't recall seeing often in Doom wads. Anyway, to get to the secret exit, you need to find 9 hidden/secret switches in order to open the exit door on the right side. Yes, it's difficult, yes it can take about an hour or more to complete (depending whether you want 100% completion and the secret exit) but I still think this was a great map overall and one of the highlights of CChest2! One of my favorites and definitely a memorable map! MAP31: Idée Fixeby Owen Lloyd (Sarge Baldy) A somewhat short and cramped map that can feel a bit challenging at times but nothing too crazy. There is a Cyberdemon guarding the exit. Accessing the secret exit should be easy to figure out, so I won't go into details. Fun map! MAP32: Sodding Deathby Chris Hopkins (chopkinsca) Ah yes, a map from the same author behind the Archvile infested Phocas Island, a map/wad I've beaten a few years ago in ZDoom 2.8.1 (I also remember trying the sequel but it crashed GZDoom 1.9.1 as soon as it started, then I tried in GZDoom 2.4.0 and it worked fine but I didn't play too much of that one). I will actually be blunt and say that I didn't enjoy that map/wad, mostly because of the AV spam and lots of dickish encounters which required savescumming to complete, especially towards the ending ambush where I ran into impossible scenarios with low health and needed an earlier save to complete. So how does the author's contribution to Community Chest 2 feel like? Well, it was pretty decent. The AV usage was toned down a lot. You should still be aware of an occasional AV that spawns somewhere but at least in this map, they are only 11 in total. How many were in Phocas Island? 53! The worst part? On easier skills there's barely any archies present but on UV, there's tons more. Why? What's up with the difficulty spike? Did we really need so many Archviles? Going back to the Sodding Death, it was a challenging map with some tricky ambushes, some of which I barely survived and in total the map probably took me nearly an hour (or more?) to fully complete, don't remember exactly. Granted, I played continuous and many parts turned a lot easier than they should have been. The last ambush with the cacodemons wasn't too bad compared to what was earlier. Honestly, it was a pretty decent map overall. MAP16: Spirit World HQby Gene Bird Time for another Gene Bird map! It's...okay, though quite bland at times. Not as good as the author's previous one and more in line with his first two maps from cchest2 (MAP04 and MAP08). Just remember that there is a point of no return halfway in the level, so grab everything in advance before stepping on that teleporter! Oh and I recall there were a few health bonuses that were difficult to grab in one of the first areas, the item was stuck between a small crate and a wall. I don't remember how I managed to grab the item, I think I had to walk around that place a couple of times in order for DoomGuy to grab the item. I only wish Gene was a bit more generous (heh) with the blue armor pickups, as it seems most of his maps only contain the green armor. :P MAP17: Through the Blackby Andy Leaver Interestingly, I didn't notice that Andy Leaver took the MAP17 slot in ALL Community Chests until I read the post by Book Lord. Of course he also took the MAP16 slot in first CChest and a couple more in CChest3, which I hope to get chosen/played for the DWmegawad Club, as I am looking forward to replay CChest3 after all these years. Too bad CChest4 was already chosen many years ago, so I don't get to participate in that one. But if CChest3 gets chosen, I will be sure to fully participate in it instead of making a long post at the end of the month! Anyway, back to the actual map, it was quite challenging at times and fun. I don't have much else to say beyond that I liked it. MAP18: Internal Reaches 3by Samuel Villarreal (Kaiser) And now time for a map by the famous Kaiser! He has done three contributions in the first Community Chest. Sadly, only one in the second Community Chest and no more in the future series. Oh and realized this is the third map in the Infernal Reaches series, the first one being in community chest, while the second one was released separately, which means, I need to check Internal Reaches 2 out! The design is very clean and the map is well balanced and challenging at times, with many ambushes that can be tricky to deal with but nothing truly difficult. I recall getting low on health at some point later on but thankfully I survived. There is also a Cyberdemon fight towards the end, as well as an ambush with two Mancubi and an Arachnotron, where you must kill them quickly and avoid the crushers by standing on a safe spot, so be sure to have the BFG ready for this section if you want to clear them quickly! Once finished, the exit is revealed at the beginning of the level. Which I must mention that the starting room definitely reminded me of one of the Master Levels, though it has already been pointed earlier by other people, so I don't have much else to add compared to what has been said. Great map! MAP19: The Marbelous Threeby Jan Engelhardt (Hirogen2) This map wowed me. The design and visuals were definitely great. It wasn't very challenging besides one of the rooms (though you are given an invulnerability for that) and it was quite short overall. But other than that, this was definitely a great short map! Just note that one of the secrets can only be accessed once (it also contains a Pain Elemental inside), so be sure to grab it before it gets closed permanently! Thanks Doomwiki.org for letting me know in advance! MAP20: Enigmaby Ian Cunnings (The Flange Peddler) This map reminded me a lot of Ultimate Doom (E3M7: Limbo), as it has been pointed out already. It offers a good challenge and I enjoyed my time playing through it. What I didn't like is the secret that was only possible to reach in OLDER VERSIONS OF ZDOOM (such as ZDoom 2.1.7), where you were required to be blasted by the archvile in order to reach it. Since I played in PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4, this was unreachable and I was forced to exit the map with 84% items and 80% secrets, as I didn't want to use any cheats (at least not until MAP24). Meaning that the Archvile was killed as soon as it was spotted. Thanks once more Doomwiki.org for warning me in advance about the broken secret, so I don't get extra pointless deaths when attempting failed AV jumps! A shame that this map was hurt by ZDoomisms, though not the only one in the megawad. Even then, ZDoomisms or not, it was still a great map overall. MAP21: Undead Nationby Draconio This map reminded me a bit of Doom's E1 maps, as it seems to mostly use Doom E1 assets, with some exceptions. I don't have much to say about this one, it was okay but somewhat forgettable at times. I liked the ambush at the end, though I must note it is the impossible to backtrack from that point, so grab everything in advance before stepping on the teleporter. MAP22: Thematic Elementsby Thomas Lutrov (Lutrov71) and Kimmo Kumpulainen (Jimi) Ouch! This map was pretty tough at times, even on a continuous run! I actually managed to die four times (like in MAP15), though I can't remember the exact parts I died but I know for sure I spent a couple parts with low health and had to save often after every successful fight. Some parts were indeed a bit Plutonia inspired and quite painful at times with sudden/unexpected ambushes. I will say that I found it okay and I'm grateful I finished it with 200% health and armor, as my reward for finishing a tough map. MAP23: Death Mountainby Cyber-Menace Another memorable map, I especially liked its visuals. The blue sky was beautiful. The mountains setting is interesting and the map also offers a great challenge. I am also happy that the author was generous with armor bonuses, there's 100 in total in fact! This helped me repair the blue armor to 160%, as there aren't any blue armors present in the map and we all know what's coming next. Not to mention there are plenty of tricky ambushes and some parts were a bit dark, also the navigation was a bit annoying in some parts, especially when climbing trees with the vanilla physics. But with all said, this was a solid map and I liked it. MAP24: The Mucus Flowby B.P.R.D I know I will probably get hate for this but since other people expressed their similar feelings, I might as well give my hot take. I will be honest and say that I hated this damn map! I truly did. It might as well have been called The Mucus Shit, which would be fitting given the author's weird humor! Design wise, it's amazing and definitely one of the highlights of the pack and a very memorable map indeed. But gameplay wise, it sucks. It doesn't help that there are areas/secrets that are only reachable in ZDoom, some of which require you to jump to reach them (like those secrets located on top of crates). And the balance is all over the place. What was the author thinking? I find it impossible to give an advice beyond to create infighting and try to use melee attacks almost all the time. Even better if using ZDoom, as those melee attacks can actually connect with the monsters, so you have an easier time chainsawing revenants, punching barons and even wide enemies like Arachnotrons and Mancubi. In vanilla/boom ports, this is nearly impossible to do. Oh and be sure to find that secret that disables the chaingunners spawning into the map, so you can kill the chaingunners in the watchtowers and move on. Once reaching that switch where it is impossible to progress any further in PrBoom+ (see one of the screenshots I took back then), just use TNTEM and IDCLIP cheats, then collect all the items, register all the secrets and finish the map because it's not worth the time to download a separate fixed wad and to go through this mess once more. If you want to do it as intended by the author, then make sure to play in ZDoom with mouselook, jumping and crouching all enabled! Abuse the hell out of saving/loading as well, like I did purposely with 1 HP remaining at some point, so that later on I don't have to consume every health pickup and actually end up in an impossible scenario. Oh and be careful of the secret that is reachable only ONCE! To reach the other "inaccessible" secrets, just jump on those crates tagged as secrets. Oh yeah and once you made it near end of map, when pressing the switch to fill the place with mucus or slime or whatever the hell that is, remember that there is no way back, so be sure to grab everything in advance. After that, kill the last two imps and the nightmare is finally over. The only good things I can say about the map, besides the atmosphere/visuals is that the acid is not harmful, so you are free to walk on it. Oh yeah and the music is great too. Stupid question: is anyone bothered by the fact MtPain27 used in his Community Chest 2 video, PrBoom+ for MAP24 and ZDoom for the rest maps? Shouldn't have been the other way around? I realize I should direct this message at him but I still find this a bit weird, considering he had some monsters not teleport in some other maps. I think this is a source port issue rather than a compatibility issue, which is also why I usually play the maps in the intended source port. For example, in PrBoom+ I always adjust the compatibility setting suited for the mapset (yes, I always read the readme text file before playing), whereas in ZDoom family ports, I only use the Default compatibility setting, as I mostly use ZDoom/GZDoom for maps made for them. Then again, in these Z-family ports, I have mouselook, jumping and crouching always enabled (unless a wad disables them), as I feel like ZDoom controls are better suited towards the wads made for it. Unpopular opinion, I know. TLDR: I didn't like this map, I find it overrated and it doesn't deserve all this praise it has gotten over the years, considering the shitty balance and the ZDoomisms involved! It also does not belong in this community project, it should have been released separately to not overshadow the rest of the package, so it can be judged separately, just like the rest of BPRD's releases. I hope the next map is better and more fun! MAP25: Desecrationby Gene Bird Since the previous map was impossible to complete in PrBoom+, I had to pistol start this one (using command line parameters on my PrBoom+ shortcut) and lose the time of 17 hours spent on playing this megawad, which is why my total timer at end of MAP30 is only about 5 hours long. And this time, we get to yet another Gene Bird map, which is his final contribution of the megawad! Thankfully, Gene was kind enough to not throw anything too crazy at the player. In fact, just with the starting area, you can recover most of your weapons if you find the secrets. You should already have both shotguns, the chaingun and the chainsaw within the first minute or so! And the green armor will be a great help too. Anyway, not going into the details, the map was fine and a huge improvement compared to Gene Bird's previous offerings. This map was also a much needed break after the miserable MAP24! Surprised that the map was also easier than I expected from a pistol start, which makes me wonder why I don't pistol start more often? :P MAP26: Geist Hallsby Dr. Zin This map was alright, though somewhat cramped at times. It reminded me a lot of some maps from Icarus: Alien Vanguard. The invulnerability secret was a great help against the Cyber at the end. MAP27: Gethsemaneby Mike Alfredson (Use3D) An interesting large map that must have taken me at least an hour to complete. I remember dying once from the Cyberdemon's rocket because I got stuck in a tree when trying to dodge, which was kinda bullshit, as I managed to survive many other deadly ambushes later on with low health. MAP28: No Roomby Andrew Stine (Linguica) A contender for the worst map in Community Chest 2, this map was extremely annoying and poorly balanced in a couple parts too, where I was running low on health and there didn't seem to be much available. Many dickish ambushes, a pointless secret requiring an ArchVile jump (costed me about 1-2 deaths as I kept getting thrown in other directions by the AVs, also all the secret switch does is spawn a bunch of nazis), lava that hurts for 20 dmg, the never-ending chaingunner traps at the end and much more. I died about six times in total but even with the ONLY six deaths suffered, the map still managed to make me rage at how miserable some parts were. I remember barely managing to finish it with 100% health but the armor was nearly consumed. Oh and as a final insult, you can't even backtrack to collect all the goodies that you left behind, so grab everything before getting to the last couple of rooms! I can't tell if No Room was purposely made this bad or something but I really fucking hated this map! MAP29: Event Horizonby Boris Iwanski A very interesting challenging map that tests your skills. Unlike the previous map, this one is mostly fair and well balanced. I was lucky with many ambushes that could have ended badly, for instance the part you fight two Cybers at once went pretty smooth. For completionists, I must point out that the monsters on those ledges/pillars towards the end can accidentally fall off the map if your attacks didn't kill them, preventing 100% kills! Happened to me once when I noticed I was missing a monster but thankfully I had a backup save from previous room, so I tried doing this last part correctly until getting all the kills. The ambush in the tower was also great. I was lucky to survive it in first attempt. Despite some annoying/confusing parts, I enjoyed my time with this one. MAP30: In Threesby Mike Watson (Cyb) Not bad for a map coming from a legendary mapper! I think this was a pretty interesting IOS themed map where you didn't have to fight IOS directly, instead you collect the keys and quickly press the switches to destroy the IOS as quickly as you can before you are getting overwhelmed by the spawned monsters. I got killed once early on by one of those imps that teleported on top of me, causing me the rare PrBoom+ death where the Player's head jumps in air, similar to the player gibbed deaths in Heretic and Hexen! Oh yeah and the damaging floors early on are annoying, didn't like the beginning section too much, especially the fact imps can telefrag you, as I already mentioned. The archviles can be cleared with the Invulnerability at least, so they aren't too bad. Overall, I thought it was pretty good for a finale. I wasn't too disappointed. ;) PrBoom+ Screenshots Spoiler ZDoom screenshots (MAP24) Spoiler PrBoom+ Deaths: 26 (MAP15, MAP22, MAP24, MAP27, MAP28, MAP30) ZDoom Deaths: ~100 (MAP24 ONLY!) Total Deaths: ~126 (PrBoom+ and ZDoom) Note that I still counted those 10 deaths in MAP24 when I played in PrBoom+ (until I got stuck to that part of the map where I couldn't progress further without cheating) and the 50-100 or so ZDoom deaths from MAP24 I counted separately, to make it fair. I still don't remember if it was exactly 100 deaths but for sure they were more than 50-75, so to make it fair, I rounded to 100, to make up for only dying in six maps overall (I like when I manage to survive many maps without dying). Overall: Community Chest 2 is a massive improvement over the first one but still a bit of a mixed bag in the end, with many decent maps, a couple fun/memorable ones and a few really frustrating ones. I guess I've been spoiled by the newer Community Chests (3 and 4 respectively, both of which I need to replay after these years) because they have better and more polished maps and other cool things going on. By comparison, the first two Community Chests (especially the first one) look quite primitive in comparison. At the time cchest2 was released, it was probably seen as a good megawad and was already an improvement compared to the first one, in fact I know the second one got a cacoward back in 2004, so it must be good, right? Well, for the most part, it's good. But unlike most people, I haven't been very impressed with MAP24. I find it monumentally overrated (same applies to the author's other works), at least when comes to the gameplay. There's no denying that BPRD can make some cool atmospheric maps but gameplay wise, they kinda suck. There are many better maps out there that deserve to be remembered and they also offer good gameplay, which I can't say the same about BPRD's works in general. Though I will say that BPRD's Equinox wad was mostly fine until the final two levels when things went downhill and killed the wad for me. Which makes me want to say once more that I don't think Gene Bird deserves to be the punching bag of the Community Chest 2 when maps like 24 and 28 exist. Yes, MAP24 has impressive design but gameplay-wise, it sucks. MAP28 was just a miserable experience with many dickish encounters, just to piss off the player. Some of Gene's maps were mediocre but not unplayable. Many of the levels in CChest2 were actually fine, with some forgettable maps in between them. I will make a better/proper review when I finally get around to rate and review each wad played in the nearly future, as I neglected this since like 2 years ago. Votes for next month: +++ Number One Kill Trilogy (Number One Kill + Extra + The Next Generation) +++ Fragport +++ Hexen: Beyond Heretic Most likely either Number One Kill trilogy or Fragport will win but I threw in a Hexen vote as well because this should get played one day. My last playthroughs of Hexen in DOSBox 0.74-3 from last summer weren't done in vain and even took about 200 cool screenshots that still haven't gotten around uploading them on Doomwiki. ;) Regardless of what gets chosen next month, I hope to be active in the whole month instead of making a long rushed post at the end of the month, as it has often happened. I probably need to manage my time better. Have a nice day everyone! Edited January 30, 2023 by FistMarine 7 Quote Share this post Link to post
Azure_Horror Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Map 28 No Room by Linguica UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9 Mods: The choice of mods seems irrelevant, all things considered. IMHO, this map suffers from an identity crisis. What is this level? Is it normal map? Is it something deliberately mean? Or maybe its is Serious Sam TSE homage? (The design of lava caverns and the layout of ambushes resemble TSE gameplay...) In the end, one thing is certain: all the runtime of this map is situated between A) Mean archvile/skeleton pincer at the start and B) infuriating "ha-ha, chaingunners go brrrr" troll at the end, with some ammo sponge fights in between (Rocket launcher vs two cybers? A squad of turret Barons of Hell???). The wolfenstein secret ambush has a lot in common with Serious Sam TSE secrets: hard to trigger, and almost no reward, besides a silly sequence of events. However, the exact choice of Wolfenstein decorations around the trap is once again quite trolly. The level of craftsmanship is high, and the gameplay does feel very coherent. However, something is lacking. This map feels much more high-quality than the Graf Zahl CC2 submission, but it is also much longer, much more trolly, and drags out for some bits. Don't know, what else to say... Map 29 Event Horizon by Boris Iwanski UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9 (and 21 for Vesper) Mods: 1st playtrough - Vesper; replayed without mods to get a better impression of the intended experience I am really glad that I have got to play this map. Especially glad, that I played it without spoilers. Really inventive theme we have here... 1) At first, this level looks like a usual techbase. 2) Later, it appears that we find ourselves in a wormhole type of a situation. 3) But this is wrong! There is no parallel reality here! All the infernal weirdness and the normal techbase stuff exist side-by-side. It appears that the base is slowly consumed by demonic influence... My headcanon: this particular base has stopped being like a Phobos base from Doom E1, and is on its way to becoming like a Deimos base from Doom Episode 2. Hence, the map name: this place was ripped from the normal existence, and the metaphorical event horizon is behind us already. In many ways, Event Horizon feels like a sibling level for To Hell And Back (map 07). Once again, the presentation and Boom tricks take the lead. The gameplay is definitely nice, but not super crucial here. That said, the difficulty of the fights is appropriate for this map slot. Nothing is super challenging, but nothing is super-trivial too. On a scale from 1 to 10, this map gets a rating of 10 demonic dinosaur dentures! Wonderful experience! Map 30 In Threes by Cyb UV, DSDA-Doom, pistol start, complevel 9 Mods: No mod. Icon of Sin gotta do Icon of Sin things... Like it is often the case, we start with introductory section, and then proceed to The Icon itself. Let's discuss both parts of the map: - Introductory section. I find it is short and on-point. Props for using map 30 telefrag rules for minor, but memorable teleporting imp set ups. The archvile part of the equation may appear nasty at first, but it includes an invuln! It seems that the best approach is to go for the big ammo stash immediately and blast the angry Martians with BFG. Damaging floor and revenants do feel somewhat annoying, but nothing truly horrible happens here. All in all, the introductory section is solid, if a bit annoying. - The Icon fight itself. Push three switches, grab three keys push three more switches. Sounds easy, right? Not with three Icons of Sin throwing hellspawn everywhere! Luckily, the demons appear in a clumped cluster. So there is many infights and many telefrags. And monster crowds are juicy BFG targets. In the end, this setup is a mad and action-packed race against time. It is great fun, and feels much more consistent than the usual IoS vertical aim jank. IMHO, this is one of the best IoS fights out there! Why venerated classics like Alien Vendetta has terrible rehashes of Doom 2 map 30, while more obscure pWADs get some genuinely fun Icon reinterpretations? In Threes is a quality final level, all things considered. Conclusion about Community Chest 2 in general: After playing some maps from CC3 and CC4, I was fearing a long parade of lengthy, uniform, notably-better-than-average- yet-generic maps. After studying prevalent opinions about CC1, I feared an endless collection of janky designs. All, in all, I was prepared for Community Chest 2 to take worst from the both worlds. This is why I collected a set of my favorite gameplay mods. I decided that if I don't get to enjoy the maps, I will enjoy the mods instead... However, I was pleasantly surprised! There is a lot of diverse mapping styles in Community Chest 2, and the game experience felt much more fresh than I anticipated. Map length was also good on average. Longer maps were not the norm, they were used sparingly and felt pretty novel and impactful as the result. Around map 19, I felt an urge to set aside my box of mods, and to start playing the WAD in an intended configuration. Good stuff! Good month in DWMw Club! Tomorrow I will try collect my thoughts further. Today, I want to say the following: 1) I kinda prefer Community Chest 2 to Alien Vendetta. My personal ranking of Ye Olde Classic PWADs looks like: Scythe 1 > Scythe 2 = Community Chest 2 > Alien Vendetta. Of course, AV and CC2 are very different WADs. Saying that one is outright better than the other is just silly. Nevertheless, my personal preference is on CC2 side. 2) I respectfully disagree with @Book Lord: I think that The Mucus Flow is a good fit for CC2 megawad. The themes of extreme challenges, recourse deprivation, memorable visuals, and desperate long journeys are notable throughout the whole WAD. The Mucus Flow just dials all those things up to 11. 3) That said, I found more than one memorable and awe-inspiring map in this WAD. There is, of course, The Mucus Flow, which can be frustrating, but it still is memorable and groundbreaking. There is Map 32, which feels like the best Scythe 2 episode 4 map ever made. There is Map 15, which manages to combine two of the most famous Plutonia Experiment maps in one coherent exploratory experience. And there is also Death Mountain (Map 23), which brings a huge pile of small tricks to the table, and feels like a genre of its own as the result. Maybe there are other maps I want to highlight, but I will decide tomorrow... Foe now here is a draft of the final map rankings: Spoiler Prime top 5 candidates (7 maps): Map 15 City Heat by The Ultimate DooMer Map 31 Ideé Fixe by Sarge Baldy Map 06 The View by Lutrov71 Map 23 Death Mountain by Cybermenace Map 22 Thematic Elements by Lutrov71 & Jimi Map 05 Desecration by Gene Bird Map 32 Sodding Death by chopkinsca Other very cool maps (in order of preference) Map 29 Event Horizon by Boris Iwanski Map 04 Deja Vu by GeneBird Map 11 Beyond Pain by Exile Map 03 Slidge Control by The Flange Peddler Map 07 To Hell and Back by The Flange Peddler Map 01 The Furnace by Erik Alm Map 08 The Pit by Gene Bird Map 24 The Mucus Flow by B.P.R.D. Map 30 In Threes by Cyb Map 26 Geist Halls by Dr. Zin More maps that I seem to enjoy (in order of preference) Map 19 The Marbelous Three by Hirogen2 Map 18 Internal Reaches 3 by Kaiser Map 27 Gethsemane by Use3D Map 17 Through the Black by Andy Leaver Map 12 Redemption by Gene Bird Map 14 Shadow of Evil by Mephisto Map 02 Coolant Platform by iori Map 13 Annihilation Invention by PsyRen Map 05 Elixir by RjY Map 10 Intermission by Volteface Average / OK maps: Map 20 Enigma by The Flange Peddler Map 28 No Room by Linguica Map 16 Spirit World HQ by Gene Bird Map 21 Undead Nation by Draconio Map 09 The Transformer by Graf Zahl Bad maps: None! Edited January 30, 2023 by Azure_Horror 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
Andromeda Posted January 30, 2023 6 hours ago, FistMarine said: MAP28: No Room Oh and as a final insult, you can't even backtrack to collect all the goodies that you left behind, so grab everything before getting to the last couple of rooms! You can actually backtrack after triggering the last ambush (with the arch-vile), a lift is revealed that takes you to the first room beyond the yellow door. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post
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