Doom Community Iceberg (Entry Suggestions Needed)

[rivethead_]

LINK: https://icebergcharts.com/i/Doom_Community

 

I'm a huge fan of iceberg charts, and I think they can be a really fun way to explore information revolving around a certain topic, video game, movie, etc. I personally wasn't really satisfied with the "disturbing" doom iceberg covered by youtubers such as Midnight, particularly due to the fact they seem more focused on rumors rather than trivia, interesting facts, and cool creations surrounding, well, Doom!

 

As such, I've taken it upon myself to start work on a Doom iceberg focused on the community, particularly modding, memes, and everything in between, and I thought what better place to ask for entries than Doomworld, a forum dedicated to well, Doom.

 

Here's a preview of the first three or so levels, keep in mind this is a HEAVY work in progress, and entries are bound to be moved up and down and changed category. I should also note that, on the site that this is going to be published to, almost every entry (should) have a link.

 

P.s. these are ranked based on obscurity! The top level being things those with only a passing knowledge of the Doom community would most likely know about

 

P.p.s due to some confusion in the thread I want to clarify and stress that this iceberg is not finished, and that these are not all of the entries or layers. There are more layers. These are just the ones that I've deemed to be in somewhat of a presentable condition.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by skript_kitty

[LadyMistDragon]

That stuff on the bottom seems less obscure than maybe cringy and controversial for certain reasons (like I know Doom 2 in Spain Only's a meme wad after a fashion if not exactly Dark Scythe but could we maybe not be so harsh on it).

[rivethead_]

2 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

That stuff on the bottom seems less obscure than maybe cringy and controversial for certain reasons (like I know Doom 2 in Spain Only's a meme wad after a fashion if not exactly Dark Scythe but could we maybe not be so harsh on it).

 

To be fair I'm not exactly ranking these based off infamy or how disturbing they are but how well known they are, for example Tier 1 is things generally known and Tier 3 is things that only people who regularly play doom mods would probably know about. These aren't the only tiers btw, these are just the ones that (currently) have entries

[Mr Masker]

-I confused the drama colour and content creator colour ignore the previous thing-

 

Interesting iceberg list, although I feel like the obscurity rating of some wads is a bit weird. Like is Pet The Cacodemon really more well known than Sonic Robo Blast 2?

Edited December 31, 2022 by Mr Masker

[dasho]

I thought the point of iceberg charts was to be a) memery and b) increasingly disturbing as you descend. I've never seen one that was supposed to be taken seriously. If obscurity is the only metric, then the bottom tier would probably be full of one-off idgames WADs.

[thelamp]

1 minute ago, dasho said:

I thought the point of iceberg charts was to be a) memery and b) increasingly disturbing as you descend. I've never seen one that was supposed to be taken seriously. If obscurity is the only metric, then the bottom tier would probably be full of one-off idgames WADs.

 

I agree, the bottom level should have stuff like grezzo on it. Having two metrics, fame and offensiveness, makes it more interesting to decide where to plot something like HDoom which is both well known and, well, disturbing.

[DannyMan]

To add on the Freedoom part thing, there were unofficial releases of it, like Doomsday III: Ganymede for a notable example. Don't forget about HacX also.

[OkDoomer174]

Source port drama and other such happenings would be a good thing to add maybe on level 4. Some from the 10 Years of Doom genealogy recap:

• Bernd Kreimeier's involvement with the source release
• TeamTNT's internal Boom drama
• DosDOOM vs. Doom Legacy
• ZDoom's heavily-borrowed codebase
• ZDoom vs. SMMU swirling flats issue
• MBF only getting one release
• csDoom's security issues

I'm sure there are more that I just haven't found out about. Also consider the lilith.pk3 debacle.

[Lizardcommando]

You could probably add in stuff from Skulltag and Zanondrum. I remember there was some drama within the Skulltag forums back in the day, although I dunno if that shit is too obscure to the general Doom audience or not.

[Sixty-nine]

add rootpain.wad to the iceberg

[Sena]

• Spongebob Doom DMCA
• NewDoom
• Jeremy Corbyn

[Vladguy]

Why isn't MtPain in the second top category?

[rivethead_]

22 hours ago, thelamp said:

 

I agree, the bottom level should have stuff like grezzo on it. Having two metrics, fame and offensiveness, makes it more interesting to decide where to plot something like HDoom which is both well known and, well, disturbing.

 

personally the way im doing it is if a topic is disturbing, but well known, and openly talked about, it won't be on the surface.

if it's well known, but not openly talked about, it's in the middle,

and if it's neither, it's at the bottom.

 

Also thank you all for your suggestions! I'm adding to the iceberg as (probably) you're reading this.

 

22 hours ago, Mr Masker said:

-I confused the drama colour and content creator colour ignore the previous thing-

 

Interesting iceberg list, although I feel like the obscurity rating of some wads is a bit weird. Like is Pet The Cacodemon really more well known than Sonic Robo Blast 2?

 

Also, fair point, I'm eager to take suggestions to rearrange the positions of entries

 

just realized i can simply post a link to the iceberg in its WIP state and you all can suggest entries at the very bottom of the page

 

https://icebergcharts.com/i/Doom_Community

[Herr Dethnout]

Good to know that my mod is here...

Wait, somebody made a Doot mod too? And is even more complete than mine? Oh welp...

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I've been looking at this Iceberg for five minutes and I still can't figure it out. Why are DTiSO, Dwars, Time Tripper, and NTMAI at the bottom? And Mussolini's hanging body isn't even real. Why does Eric Harris have two different entries in two different parts of the iceberg? Why is HacX included when no other idtech games are? Why is Mordeth an "infamous mod" but not Blade of Agony? Why is Batman DOOM "famous" but not BTSX, Sigil, or Anciet Aliens? Why would someone with only a passing knowledge of DOOM know about things like palettes, mockery.wad, or SLADE?

Edited January 1, 2023 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[act]

6 hours ago, skript_kitty said:

I'm a huge fan of iceberg charts, and I think they can be a really fun way to explore information revolving around a certain topic, video game, movie, etc. I personally wasn't really satisfied with the "disturbing" doom iceberg covered by youtubers such as Midnight, particularly due to the fact they seem more focused on rumors rather than trivia, interesting facts, and cool creations surrounding, well, Doom!

 

As such, I've taken it upon myself to start work on a Doom iceberg focused on the community, particularly modding, memes, and everything in between, and I thought what better place to ask for entries than Doomworld, a forum dedicated to well, Doom.

 

Here's a preview of the first three or so levels, keep in mind this is a HEAVY work in progress, and entries are bound to be moved up and down and changed category. I should also note that, on the site that this is going to be published to, almost every entry (should) have a link.

 

P.s. these are ranked based on obscurity! The top level being things those with only a passing knowledge of the Doom community would most likely know about

 

 

I think stuff like the source code, and games made with GZDoom - basically stuff beyond the vanilla game - should be lower. While youtubers, like Dwars, should be raised in position.

[rivethead_]

12 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I've been looking at this Iceberg for five minutes and I still can't figure it out. Why are DTiSO, Dwars, Time Tripper, and NTMAI at the bottom? And Mussolini's hanging body isn't even real. Why does Eric Harris have two different entries in two different parts of the iceberg? Why is HacX included when no other idtech games are? Why is Mordeth an "infamous mod" but not Blade of Agony? Why is Batman DOOM "famous" but not BTSX, Sigil, or Anciet Aliens?

 

1. This iceberg is unfinished, VERY unfinished

and 2. These aren't all of the layers, far from it

 

I specifically came here to ask for entries to add to the iceberg

Edited January 1, 2023 by skript_kitty

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Gene Bird hate and Joe - Ilya 2010's community project submissions have definitely been big parts of the community. Like others have said, don't forget source port drama. 

[RastaManGames]

"Brutal Doom" & "H-Doom" are here. I am calm, by now.

[Dexiaz]

ACE Doom custom engine for DOS

[Pure Hellspawn]

These definitely belong, they are well known:

 

Misri Halek deserves it's own special honor despite being in AV.

Adventures of Square

Super Sonic Doom

Mock 2 The Speed of Stupid

Speed of Doom (esp map30)

Deus Vult

 

These may not be as known, but they still belong:

Sunder belongs here (notable slaughter)

Holy Hell (first >10k mons)

D2INO

Chocolate DOOM and DSDA

CC Series

Perdition's Gate and other commercials + Chex Quest

RTC-3057

 

 

Probably a lot more goes here...

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Pure Hellspawn

[IcarusOfDaggers]

8 hours ago, Mr Masker said:

-I confused the drama colour and content creator colour ignore the previous thing-

 

Interesting iceberg list, although I feel like the obscurity rating of some wads is a bit weird. Like is Pet The Cacodemon really more well known than Sonic Robo Blast 2?

Don't know Sonic Robo Blast at all. I do know Pet The Cacodemon. So I'd say yes.

 

 

As for original topic, deep in the everyone knows territory is going down or sunlust. You pretty much see them in every youtubers comment section or wads they are playing.

 

@Pure Hellspawn again, don't know any of these even by name, except for deus vault. 

 

@skript_kitty i do wonder what your baseline for well known is. I learned about doom mapping 10 years after I played doom, completely by accident on decinos channel, while looking for super mario maker 2 stuff lol. 

 

Also, I'd put doomkid and lazygamer into entryway, since when typing ultimate doom builder, lazygamer is the first complete tutorial you find.

 

Also, happy new year everyone

Edited January 1, 2023 by IcarusOfDaggers
More people tagged.

[Mr Masker]

2 hours ago, IcarusOfDaggers said:

Don't know Sonic Robo Blast at all. I do know Pet The Cacodemon. So I'd say yes.

Yeah, I guess it is sorta subjective, Although I don't really know how you'd gauge obscurity for stuff like this. One persons layer 4 topic is another person's layer 1.

[taufan99]

No mention of Caverns of Darkness? It's such a curiosity, and there isn't a lot of YouTube coverage out there (at the very least not without commentary or in an "unadulterated" experience, etc.).

[Nathan Silver]

I dunno if these count as obscure topics but I'm Ethereal Breakdown (or even Doom 64/PSX inspired mods) should be included in the bottom if you ask me. Not only that, there's also some things that I had in mind to add into the iceberg but I'm not sure if I should bring them up here. Terrywads could be added too, since they are undoubtedly one of the most well known topics in the community as a whole.

 

P.S.: Noticed that Terrywads is in the top of the iceberg... whoops!

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Nathan Silver

[mrthejoshmon]

These types of game Icebergs infuriate me.

 

No offence to you, you're clearly passionate about this, but all this really is just fairly known wads, community members and the most talked about nonesense such as the tired Mussolini thing (not real).

 

Why not more interesting entries, things like:

 

The concept of Gliding (most notably Void Gliding)

Deep cuts like doom = human body allegory

Command line parameters (literally most new Doomers will not know these)

The PSX Lost Soul map corruption

The differences in console versions, such as entirely unique levels

The spider mastermind Is completely unused in Playstation Final Doom

The Dark Claw Weapon

The Unmaker was originally planned for Doom 1

Unknown unused Doom 3 enemy

The Blob

 

Just a few examples.

 

There's a lot more to talk about than just wads.

Edited January 1, 2023 by mrthejoshmon

[rivethead_]

14 minutes ago, mrthejoshmon said:

These types of game Icebergs infuriate me.

 

No offence to you, you're clearly passionate about this, but all this really is just fairly known wads, community members and the most talked about nonesense such as the tired Mussolini thing (not real).

 

Why not more interesting entries, things like:

 

The concept of Gliding (most notably Void Gliding)

Deep cuts like doom = human body allegory

Command line parameters (literally most new Doomers will not know these)

The PSX Lost Soul map corruption

The differences in console versions, such as entirely unique levels

The spider mastermind Is completely unused in Playstation Final Doom

The Dark Claw Weapon

The Unmaker was originally planned for Doom 1

Unknown unused Doom 3 enemy

The Blob

 

Just a few examples.

 

There's a lot more to talk about than just wads.

 

I added the mussolini thing due to its presence as a common rumor in the community. It's possible on the site im using to make this to add little notes that pop up whenever you hover over an entry, and I'm thinking of adding a note to the mussolini entry that it's fake, along with clarification. I just thought it was necessary to include on the iceberg due to it being a common piece of ""trivia"" shared around about Doom

 

Also thank you very much for these suggestions! And don't worry, no offense taken, I appreciate the input.

[rivethead_]

9 hours ago, IcarusOfDaggers said:

 

@skript_kitty i do wonder what your baseline for well known is. I learned about doom mapping 10 years after I played doom, completely by accident on decinos channel, while looking for super mario maker 2 stuff lol. 

 

My baseline for well known is "if I mention it to someone who isn't active in the doom community, but has played a few mods or watched a 2-3 youtube videos, they'd know"

 

That's why I've made sure to fill the at doom's gate tier with very common topics/memes and famous mods

[Pure Hellspawn]

17 hours ago, IcarusOfDaggers said:

Don't know Sonic Robo Blast at all. I do know Pet The Cacodemon. So I'd say yes.

 

 

As for original topic, deep in the everyone knows territory is going down or sunlust. You pretty much see them in every youtubers comment section or wads they are playing.

 

@Pure Hellspawn again, don't know any of these even by name, except for deus vault. 

 

@skript_kitty i do wonder what your baseline for well known is. I learned about doom mapping 10 years after I played doom, completely by accident on decinos channel, while looking for super mario maker 2 stuff lol. 

 

Also, I'd put doomkid and lazygamer into entryway, since when typing ultimate doom builder, lazygamer is the first complete tutorial you find.

 

Also, happy new year everyone

 

Perhaps it's because I've been around for a while. But I remember all these by name, and they all are/were famous at some point. This being said, Sunder is a slaughtermap that's been developed for a decade or so, still is in development.

 

Chocolate Doom and DSDA are extremely well known - they are ports.

 

The rest may be more or less historical, but have been extremely famous at some time. Definitely check them out though! 

 

7 hours ago, skript_kitty said:

 

My baseline for well known is "if I mention it to someone who isn't active in the doom community, but has played a few mods or watched a 2-3 youtube videos, they'd know"

 

That's why I've made sure to fill the at doom's gate tier with very common topics/memes and famous mods

 

Having been around for a long time, I'd venture to say this changes from time to time. When I joined, some of the mods I have listed were more popular. I remember the quote "You Fail It" from skulltag/Carnevil. New trends happen, and old ones lose their luster.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Pure Hellspawn
ty for combining

[Ar_e_en]

"Dwars" could probably be moved to the "Entryway" section, he's not that obscure of a youtuber.

 

Some additional suggestions for entries:

• Near the bottom: The slaughter wad "Chillax"
• Near the bottom: The wad "Imp Encounter"
• Near the bottom: Everything surrounding the "Community is Falling" event/wad/thing?
• Near the bottom: The animator and mod creator "Captain Jurgh"
• Around the middle: The youtuber "MarphitimusBlackimus" (Although, he's more of a Half-Life youtuber than anything)
• Around the middle: The standalone TC "Rekkr"
• Around the middle: The youtuber and map creator "Doomkid"
• Around the middle: The map creator and musician "Jimmy"
• At the top: The youtuber "MtPain27"

• At the top: The youtuber "IcarusLIVES"

There's probably more that I can think of, but these are the ones that came to mind first for me.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Ar_e_en
added a few entries for the top part