Table Filling Discussion

[BigBoy91]

How do you approach filling tables? Do you try to optimize your runs, or do you hope people beat them? I used to think it was a waste of time to even attempt a run if I couldn't get a cute little crown next to it, but I'm starting to think differently. I don't know. Maybe I just wanna have more fun playing Doom than I have been lately. I'm definitely still enjoying myself, but the pressure to achieve a quantifiable goal can take a toll sometimes, even if the runs are stupid. Most of my runs are pretty stupid, for the record.

Edited January 13, 2023 by BigBoy91

[taedev]

I tablefill because it's a way to get better without having to compete with some super-optimized run. Now I've gotten good enough than I can compete with some pretty good runs, but I still want to tablefill because it's a fun puzzle.

 

Sometimes I try to optimize it, but usually just an exit is good enough (since the runs I choose tend to be quite hard). I may try to optimize it, because there are some hard runs that I like. Usually I want people to beat it, but sometimes I don't, and it depends on the run again. They're going to do what they want, though.

 

I would like to have a crown, but tablefilling has its own benefit. When I tablefill, I do my own routing. It's a puzzle I can solve on my own, and the run is all mine. Having a run that's all mine can be better than a crown.

 

[Womp the Cat]

Contribution to the archive is its own reward. a player like Didier has a grand total of 27 record index, but is an absolute machine and legend when it comes to contribution. The crowns are nice, but they don't exist without the work of the table fillers. if you run for crowns everything you are running has already been beaten before, whereas with a table fill you are getting to be the first to do a thing. I guess it will always boil down to you as a person. for me; I put alot of stock in archive contribution, overall I view it as much more important work than achieving crowns (even though I like those too).

 

RECORDS ARE TEMPORARY, TABLEFILLS ARE FOREVER!!!!!

[Billa]

I've come to appreciate the competitive aspect of speedrunning a lot more recently but tablefilling still has a special place in my heart. Generally if a map is difficult enough that getting an exit is a challenge I'll take the first one I get, but on everything else I like to grind until I get a time below a reasonable limit. If someone beats the run, then it's time to optimise it :P

[Tobby]

As also mentioned by taedev, I think tablefills can be quite fun primarily because you have to figure it out all on your own. It just simply feels good to rout out a map yourself and then beat it :)

 

In terms of tablefilling optimization on less difficult or shorter maps, I personally just keep on playing it until I get a time that I'm reasonably satisfied with. With more challenging stuff, I'll probably just accept the first or second exit I get on it.

[Gosu_Noob]

Personally I prefer beating or rather optimizing runs to table filling, however the priority for me is whether the run and route looks fun and interesting. This usually means having some kind of minor trick in the run regardless of whether there is any index tied to it. So if there is a map that doesn't have a run but has an AVJ, you bet I'm looking at it and filling it.

 

That said to answer part 2 of your question, if I am doing a table fill I am going to make it fairly challenging to beat, unless it is a Nomo because my movement is D tier lol.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Gosu_Noob

[Maribo]

I don't think I really have a preference between competing for run improvements or filling tables, but it kind of feels especially nice to fill the table for something esoteric that no one else has bothered to do yet. The amount of personal expression you can do in Doom when you're not trying to bring a run down to the lowest possible second is pretty beautiful, and it's why I think I've personally started trying to relatively casually table fill more D2ALL/Episode maxes, and IL tyson table fills.

[Andrea Rovenski]

As the original table filler (according to my given title on this website) I usually do 2-exit runs for categories that don't have runs. I want my runs to be beatable for anyone who tries but also be good enough that it would give them a challenge. I want people to play wads I like so I will fill the tables to incentivize crown-chasers to come and give it a shot :)

 

I'd say 75% of my goals in doom speedrunning are to table fill wads I really like because it's just an excuse to keep playing. Doing all the fun categories like tyson, fast, respawn, nightmare, reality is just more ways to enjoy the same great art in slightly different ways. One of my goals this year is to fill all the classic 90s pwads -respawn tables :)

 

Edit: Fun fact! Table filling is just giving your future self records when you come back to it in a few years ;)

Edited January 13, 2023 by Andrea Rovenski

[BigBoy91]

A lot of good perspectives here!

[Bainshie-Doom]

So I do a LOT of random WADS, but my general ideal is one of a few things:

 

• Exit at least 5 times in order to get a feeling of how hard a run is.
• Keep running until I'm no longer improving the run every exit, then get my best time after that.
• Some arbitrary "Below three minutes" marker or something.

I want my runs to at the very least be "difficult" to beat, so that they look decent/kinda optimized, and are a speedrun rather then a casual playthrough/finish.

[4shockblast]

For me, mainly, the kind of table filling I like is challenge categories, so Tyson/pacifist; that I think can be much more fun than competing for a time. Also true for harder NM runs and -fast runs in some cases. Otherwise, I don't typically seek out table filling at this point as much, except for specific WADs that I choose as a target; Perdition's Gate, Scythe, Sunlust, thissuxx, and H2H-XMas have been the ones I specifically chose for these kinds of "missions." Choosing a random WAD to fill is cool, but I think it's just gotten less interesting to me over time, although sometimes I'll do it anyway (like the early Ribbiks WAD runs I did last year).

 

That said, I see table filling as even more cool than competition in some ways, as it's really showcasing something that hasn't been done before; in a sense, it's like archiving how to complete a particular map. Particularly, this applies to UV-Speed and UV-Max categories in my eyes, as I see those as the most standard ways to play most Doom WADs at this point, either by taking as direct a route to the exit as possible or killing everything/getting all the secrets. So, to me, it's always cool to see new slots receive runs for on the archive. I also think it's one way to contribute something interesting to the archive even if you don't have the skill or time to compete with more optimized runs, as even a slow table filler has value as it still showcases something about the map in question.

 

As for speed, personally, when I do table fills, I aim to set a time that would be difficult to beat but is not unfun to get and that uses the fastest route I can reasonably do. I have no standard for how many exits I aim for a particular run, as it doesn't always make sense; sometimes a run is too hard to do more than one exit reliably, or the first exit ends up being pretty hard to beat for whatever reason. In general, I tend to reset more often than I exit as a matter of habit, so usually, I don't get exits that are too bad, unless I finish an attempt as practice. For max, especially, I try not to commit too much time on a particular run, as it's always difficult to know for sure you have the best route, and the final time is especially dictated by RNG, so it's harder to know what time is good enough to stop at. As such, I think stopping at the point the run is no longer fun is the best measure I can have for such runs. :D

[mhrz]

I find table filling pretty boring but whenever I do one (rarely) I try my best just as if i'm beating a record, although it's hard to find the motivation to optimize a table filler :)

[Kinetic]

I have done a decent chunk of table-fills first exits, they feel more casual than trying to take a record or beat a time. It's like you're thinking, how do I beat this map (or game if it is a D2All)  instead of how can I beat this run. And generally not feeling rushed due to time is good too. Table fills that are "fun little challenges" are cool too, like I did Toad Map05 Tyson recently where the main challenge is you punch out a cyberdemon without having voodoo dolls get hit by its rockets, and it's like ok I will punch out this cyberdemon that's pretty cool. Table-fills have a lot of value for other reasons mentioned already