What would be Doom's equivalent to Arcane Dimensions?

[whatup876]

It's a weird question to ask because the way i see it, AD sort of fixes some issues people had with Quake while also feeling like an "expansion" to both gameplay and setting.

Specially for a game with a certain history behind its development. (it also means that as good as DoE and SoA are, they may not be enough to some people)

Doom has a lot of great wads, mods, assets etc but not something that feels so "central".

And Doom also had a bigger modding scene than Quake's as well.

 

Doom is obviously not perfect but when most people take care of specific things, they still embrace the game as 90% of what it is without feeling like there should be a few extra enemies or weapons.

Quake is different when you consider stuff like the axe as a melee weapon or the lack of bosses in other episodes besides the first and last bosses.

 

It also happens that AD serves as a resource for projects. (not the only/first one since there's also Quoth and Drake, if i recall)

With Doom, you barely get maps dedicated for gameplay mods or even off-shoot mods based off other mods. (except for Brutal/Complex Doom and Samsara)

I know Supercharge is both a gameplay mod and a mapping resource.

MetaDoom also has map based features but only know of one map that utilizes them.

But if most people wanted to expand on the gameplay for a Doom map, they usually make the new featuers themselves and/or borrow them from something like Realm667.

How Doom wads/mods works is also why mixing mapsets with gameplay mods is a thing too.

 

I'm sure someone who knows this better might have an answer.

Edited January 30, 2023 by whatup876

[LadyMistDragon]

like, not exactly, because there's a certain divide in the community between those that prefer GZDoom and those that don't? It's probably a little less present in the Quake community. I know there are still plenty of maps made that don't use AD at least. Although if one were to stretch the argument a little, GZDoom would qualify because it's now being used a game engine for indie titles, not to mention providing a stimulating sounding board for those wanting to create mods.

[Gez]

There's no direct equivalent.

 

But if you look for mods that push the proverbial envelope in terms of visuals and map sizes, then for vanilla I'd suggest perhaps BTSX (alternatively, KDIKDIZD); and for GZDoom probably Elementalism or Bastion of Chaos.

 

For the "mod used as a base for other mods" aspect, I would suggest Paradise/Supercharge, it has had a lot of success on that front.

[Not Jabba]

Arcane Dimensions is sort of like a source port (in that it's a big feature toolkit), a resource expansion, and a "game of the year"-type mapset release all at the same time, and in the Doom scene there's not really a need for something to be all of those things at once. GZDoom is designed for a lot of flexibility in project creation and there's a long history of small resource releases over a long period of time, so each mapper is likely to make their own expansion (either all-new or assembled from a variety of existing sources) rather than piggy-backing off each other's core projects to the extent that Quake mappers have needed to do. Plus, as you've already said, Doom has less need for large-scale revisions and additions to the content that's already in the base game, so the vast majority of people will keep the core of Doom as-is and make small additions, if any, to their projects. Add those two factors together, and you get a modding community that produces a lot of mega-projects, rather than any one giga-project. And a lot of the Doom projects with the highest production value are total conversions, rather than expansions.

 

The closest thing I can think of in terms of overall design goals is Hell-Forged, though it's not as overwhelmingly popular as AD. 

 

A game like Heretic that's less loved and less flexible has a lot more opportunity for a full-scale expansion, because it's more likely that players and mappers will benefit from one. Wayfarer's Tome is more similar to Copper than AD, but can be used as a base for other projects; Wayfarer and its sequel are aiming to build up to something a lot more like AD. Faithless Trilogy is arguably a different take on a similar idea.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Not Jabba

[Kinsie]

Supercharge is kind of sort of like AD in that it's a gameplay mod people make lots of maps for. The only gameplay mod people make maps for at all, actually.

[Devalaous]

Arcane Dimensions is '*the* Quake thing to talk about', so I'd say Doom's equivalent is Eviternity. It got all the media attention and is talked about by pretty much all the outside Doom people. Others are Brutal Doom, Ancient Aliens and BTSX, although BTSX has seemingly fallen off a bunch of radars in 'common' people I know, due to how long E3 is taking.

I pretty much never hear people talk about other mods if they are outside Doomworld and DW's 'offshoots'. Maybe a passing mention of the Plutonia and TNT sequels and TWIDs, but thats usually it.

[Egyptian Guardian]

Ultimate Torment and Torture in regards to custom monsters, enemies, and fantastic blockbuster-esque level design.

[ReaperAA]

I would say Ancient Aliens is somewhat like that, as it a mapset as well a resource pack (AA-Tex and the 2 custom enemies) for other AA themed mapsets.

 

Although AA is not on the same scale as Arcane Dimensions tho.

[Benjogami]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:57 PM, Devalaous said:

Brutal Doom

I've not actually played Arcane Dimensions, but I think I understand the descriptions of it and Brutal Doom seems to be the most correct answer :D

 

1. Omnipresent in the community

2. Adds content that people feel is missing from original Doom

3. Lots of mapsets and other mods built on it

4. Has maps that people like (but this is perhaps its weakest comparison point)

[heliumlamb]

what about gameplay mods that change all hitscans, both player and enemy, to projectiles? that's what comes to my mind first re: arcane dimensions, above all else, even ad_sepulcher.

Edited April 11, 2023 by heliumlamb

[Rudolph]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:57 AM, Devalaous said:

although BTSX has seemingly fallen off a bunch of radars in 'common' people I know, due to how long E3 is taking.

Well, would it be fair to call the upcoming Supplice as a Back to Saturn X spiritual successor?

[esselfortium]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

Well, would it be fair to call the upcoming Supplice as a Back to Saturn X spiritual successor?

Probably not. Supplice and BTSX both started in 2009, and both are still being worked on. They also each have pretty different goals and art directions.

[Metal_Slayer]

8 hours ago, Benjogami said:

I've not actually played Arcane Dimensions, but I think I understand the descriptions of it and Brutal Doom seems to be the most correct answer :D

 

1. Omnipresent in the community

2. Adds content that people feel is missing from original Doom

3. Lots of mapsets and other mods built on it

4. Has maps that people like (but this is perhaps its weakest comparison point)

Brutal Doom is very present within the younger part of the community like in ModDB and the ZDoom forums, but not so much here, some people here even think of it as a joke.

And it's additions aren't about stuff that makes the game better, just different (or in some cases worse). And other than the Starter Pack campaign, there aren't many maps designed to play with it, most of them are just Oblige stuff anyways. And as a bonus, I don't think there are people complaining that they can't play a mapset with AD even though it wasn't designed for it.

[Gez]

44 minutes ago, Metal_Slayer said:

And other than the Starter Pack campaign, there aren't many maps designed to play with it, most of them are just Oblige stuff anyways.

There were a few, notably Redemption of the Slain, a map by one half of the duo behind NRFTL.

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

Probably not. Supplice and BTSX both started in 2009, and both are still being worked on. They also each have pretty different goals and art directions.

Fair enough. 

 

From what I have played of Supplice, though, I could not help noticing similarities with with Back to Saturn X. But maybe that is just me.

[Helm]

let me echo Supercharge as the thing to map for for a faster, more quake-like experience with no random numbers involved. I love Supercharge dearly! Now to the base game. Doom is a solid thing it turned out to not need something like AD to push it to evergreen territory, I think that's basically it. Less balance stuff to fix in Doom, and most of the broken stuff if mapped for consciously becomes a bit of a feature. I will never be ecstatic for the fucking blockmap bug as an example but I definitely think infinitely tall monsters (which for anyone new to the game very rightly will feel like a half-finished implementation) are a feature of the base game. In fact most people won't agree on even basic changes to the game, like the health of lost souls :P The margin for different opinions on this 30 year old game where there is no agreed upon vector of improvement of the base game probably means the base game does not warrant such a linear kind of improvement at all.

[TheSlipgateStudios]

UAC Unleashed. Just a highly advanced Tech Base with new enemies and weapons.

[Bigbad75]

When I saw this question Eviternity was the first WAD that came to mind.

Tormentors Wads are also a great showcase of what the Doom engine can do, Just like Arcane Dimensions.

[Martin Howe]

22 hours ago, TheSlipgateStudios said:

UAC Unleashed. Just a highly advanced Tech Base with new enemies and weapons.

Sounds interesting; do you have a link for this? Google and forum search are not well adapted for short or common words :(

[Egyptian Guardian]

tbh if your playing Reelism 2 with every custom content add-on made for it since it's release, it could compare to AD due to it's addictive gameplay and massive content you can unlock to use in it's maps to prevent repetition. Just wish there was a little bit more added in the game, because without the add-ons I got bored fast.