Doom "v1.11"?

[Individualised]

https://www.reddit.com/r/lostmedia/comments/11a37k3/fully_lost_doom_1_version_111_v11_december_16/

Saw this on Reddit today. Anyone heard of such a thing? Seems unlikely to me, I know there is a "1.11" but that's not "1.11" in the decimal sense, it's "one point eleven", and is the Doom BFG Edition executable (as opposed to 1.10 which is Final Doom).

Edited February 24, 2023 by Individualised

[Blzut3]

10 hours ago, Individualised said:

Seems unlikely to me

Well the source seems to be Dave Taylor: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/c/hj4MY9xjMpc/m/7DgW6Igmqo0J So I don't know if I'd call it unlikely.

11 hours ago, Individualised said:

(as opposed to 1.10 which is Final Doom).

Unless there's something I'm not aware of the only 1.10 is the Linux Doom source code release not Final Doom.

[Individualised]

10 hours ago, Blzut3 said:

Well the source seems to be Dave Taylor: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/c/hj4MY9xjMpc/m/7DgW6Igmqo0J So I don't know if I'd call it unlikely.

Unless there's something I'm not aware of the only 1.10 is the Linux Doom source code release not Final Doom.

Good point, I missed that.

 

I think Final Doom refers to itself as 1.9 but is considered 1.10, as the source code seems to match it the most? Not sure.

[Blzut3]

25 minutes ago, Individualised said:

I think Final Doom refers to itself as 1.9 but is considered 1.10, as the source code seems to match it the most? Not sure.

I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone referring to it like that. Remember that the source release wasn't unmodified, but rather contains changes by Bernd Kreimeier which broke some things.  I'm not certain, but I would imagine the 1.10 version number is one of those changes.

[Individualised]

I see. That confuses things even more as Final Doom 1.9 is still clearly a different thing from Doom 2 1.9.

[Andromeda]

The Final Doom executable is sometimes referred to as 1.9f, to distinguish it from the normal 1.9.

[Murdoch]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:27 AM, Individualised said:

I see. That confuses things even more as Final Doom 1.9 is still clearly a different thing from Doom 2 1.9.

 

It's still basically the same code, just with additions to recognise the new IWADs, and a couple of quirks like the teleport bug.

[Murdoch]

Speaking of quirks...

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sky_never_changes_in_Doom_II

This is news to me. I never had a problem with sky changes in Doom II. Anyone know anything more about this or do I need to stick my tinfoil hat on and start talking about the Mandela Effect?

Edited March 20, 2023 by Murdoch

[Individualised]

12 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

Speaking of quirks...

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sky_never_changes_in_Doom_II

This is news to me. I never had a problem with sky changes in Doom II. Anyone know anything more about this or do I need to stick my tinfoil hat on and start talking about the Mandela Effect?

I always knew this. I think it's easy to forget due to how source ports are so prevalent now, and it's even fixed in some vanilla versions (and Unity Doom too of course).

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, Individualised said:

I always knew this. I think it's easy to forget due to how source ports are so prevalent now, and it's even fixed in some vanilla versions (and Unity Doom too of course).

 

There's the thing though, I always saw the correct skies in Doom II and I was playing since day 1. I specifically remember them changing right from v1.666. Distinctly remember the city sky blowing my mind. 

 

Or do I? 

*insert Twilight zone theme here*

[brick]

3 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Anyone know anything more about this or do I need to stick my tinfoil hat on and start talking about the Mandela Effect?

I have very clear memories of this one, I don't remember if it was fixed in a later patch like 1.9, but almost all my playing with doom2.exe was on 1.666 and the bug was definitely there. I always played continuous and I have many memories of the cloudy sky in The Factory and the destroyed city looming over the start room of Nirvana (that one is so vivid because of how much the drastically different colours affect that initial view of the map). I didn't even realize it was a bug and that it wasn't supposed to happen until I started noticing the sky was changing when I reloaded a game mid-map. I eventually made it a habit to save then immediately reload as soon as I'd reach MAP12 or MAP21.

[IncompA]

Did some research on the Reddit post, linked Usenet posts and the DOOM wiki and I think they're referring to this.

The old 1.1, from December 15th, has the save bug mentioned on the Usenet posts; the December 16th one fixes it.

 

More proof, from Dave Taylor. It mentions "1.11".

 

 

> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
> Subject: idNews: New v1.1 on ftp.uwp.edu
> Date: 16 Dec 1993 18:42:02 -0600
> Organization: id Software
>
> There's a new v1.1 on ftp.uwp.edu. Yes, we should have called it v1.11
> or something, but we're boneheaded. It should fix the savegame
> problems y'all are having with the old v1.1. We're looking into the
> joystick probs now.
>
> =-ddt->

Edited March 20, 2023 by EliDoesStuff
fixed typo

[RHhe82]

6 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Speaking of quirks...

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sky_never_changes_in_Doom_II

This is news to me. I never had a problem with sky changes in Doom II. Anyone know anything more about this or do I need to stick my tinfoil hat on and start talking about the Mandela Effect?

I clearly remember this as well from the 90s. I’m not sure, but I think I remember reaching Nirvana with the starbase sky. I guess this was version 1.666?

[FistMarine]

You can read more about the official Doom and Doom II versions on DoomWiki.org:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Versions_of_Doom_and_Doom_II

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/DOOM.EXE

The second link (which is where the screenshot comes from @EliDoesStuff) shows there are indeed two variants of v1.1. One is dated 15-12-1993 and another one is dated 16-12-1993. Honestly, I didn't know about this until this thread went up. I always thought there was only one variant of v1.1. Though I know there were a few bootleg versions floating around, like the infamous Doom 2 v1.666 variant (dated 25-08-1994) which I actually had on a CD with games when I was a kid!

 

About the Sky Never Changing in Doom II, it is a bug that was fixed in the Id Anthology version of Final Doom, as the wiki says. It still happens in original DOOM2.EXE v1.9, as I can confirm from past playthroughs. All you have to do after you reach the next episode (MAP12 and MAP21 and even the secret levels, the latter which are supposed to show the E3 sky) is to save and then load your game. The sky will be fixed. If not, then quitting, restarting and loading the game will fix the sky.

Edited March 20, 2023 by FistMarine

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, RHhe82 said:

I clearly remember this as well from the 90s. I’m not sure, but I think I remember reaching Nirvana with the starbase sky. I guess this was version 1.666?

 

Thinking some more i do vaguely recall sky issues. 

 

13 minutes ago, FistMarine said:

It still happens in original DOOM2.EXE v1.9, as I can confirm from past playthroughs. All you have to do after you reach the next episode (MAP12 and MAP21 and even the secret levels, the latter which are supposed to show the E3 sky) is to save and then load your game. The sky will be fixed. If not, then quitting, restarting and loading the game will fix the sky.

Wow, really? I am honestly shocked. It must have just been the way I was playing that meant I never noticed it so much. It blows my mind that such an obvious bug got left in the game that late. If my recollection of the code is accurate I am reasonably sure even I could have fixed the bug, and my C programming skills never rose above "mediocre hacker" level.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Murdoch

[IncompA]

5 hours ago, EliDoesStuff said:

Did some research on the Reddit post, linked Usenet posts and the DOOM wiki and I think they're referring to this.

The old 1.1, from December 15th, has the save bug mentioned on the Usenet posts; the December 16th one fixes it.

 

More proof, from Dave Taylor. It mentions "1.11".

 

 

> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
> Subject: idNews: New v1.1 on ftp.uwp.edu
> Date: 16 Dec 1993 18:42:02 -0600
> Organization: id Software
>
> There's a new v1.1 on ftp.uwp.edu. Yes, we should have called it v1.11
> or something, but we're boneheaded. It should fix the savegame
> problems y'all are having with the old v1.1. We're looking into the
> joystick probs now.
>
> =-ddt->

Say, does anyone actually know where to find the December 15th 1.1 version? The /idgames archive only has the December 16th version. Not even the Internet Archive was of any help, which was surprising as the December 15th version was a shareware only release.

[thestarrover]

22 hours ago, EliDoesStuff said:

Say, does anyone actually know where to find the December 15th 1.1 version? The /idgames archive only has the December 16th version. Not even the Internet Archive was of any help, which was surprising as the December 15th version was a shareware only release.

I found on three different CDs what appears to be the shareware version of doom 1.1 released on 12/15.

 

The CDs are the following:

 

DP Tool club 11: The game must be installed.  Download the CD  here or here . You can check the content here

All files are dated 12/16 but once installed the sha-1 of doom.exe and doom1.wad matches the 12/15 release. It seems to be an unaltered release.

 

MAX GAMES 60: The game is pre-installed and all files are dated 12/15. Cd is here. You can check the content here

Doom1.wad and doom.exe exactly match the 12/15 release.

Some files have been added by the editor/publisher of the cd.

 

Microforum Over 1000 Games Volume 1: The game is pre-installed. CD is here  (Disc 1). You can check the content here

Doom1.wad and doom.exe are dated 1993/12/14, but again the sha-1 matches the 12/15 release.

Some files have been added by the editor/publisher of the cd.

 

I'm by no means an expert in these things ( and my English is very limited), but I think the date of the files is not always reliable and the only way to determine if a file is correct is to check the sha-1 (or MD5 and CRC-32).

 

I compared these three releases with the 12/16 release 1.1 available on idgames and I noticed that the 12/15 release has TWO bugs in the save game:

 

1: Save slots 5 and 6 do not work correctly and the game always saves in slots 1 or 2.

In the 12/16 release on idgames THE BUG IS STILL PRESENT.

 

2: Level 2 (E1M2) is impossible to complete if you save the game. The bug is mentioned here (Daniel J Mitchell post)

Played from start to finish the level works correctly, but loading a save the level cannot be completed: the blue lift at the end of the level doesn’t work and you cannot use the switch.

In the 12/16 release THE BUG HAS BEEN FIXED AND THE SAVE WORKS CORRECTLY.

 

All the files are in the zip archive below.

 

DOOMSW 1.1 12:15.zip

 

 

I hope that these are the right files you are talking about. Sorry for any inconvenience. :)

[IncompA]

1 hour ago, thestarrover said:

I found on three different CDs what appears to be the shareware version of doom 1.1 released on 12/15.

 

The CDs are the following:

 

DP Tool club 11: The game must be installed.  Download the CD  here or here . You can check the content here

All files are dated 12/16 but once installed the sha-1 of doom.exe and doom1.wad matches the 12/15 release. It seems to be an unaltered release.

 

MAX GAMES 60: The game is pre-installed and all files are dated 12/15. Cd is here. You can check the content here

Doom1.wad and doom.exe exactly match the 12/15 release.

Some files have been added by the editor/publisher of the cd.

 

Microforum Over 1000 Games Volume 1: The game is pre-installed. CD is here  (Disc 1). You can check the content here

Doom1.wad and doom.exe are dated 1993/12/14, but again the sha-1 matches the 12/15 release.

Some files have been added by the editor/publisher of the cd.

 

I'm by no means an expert in these things ( and my English is very limited), but I think the date of the files is not always reliable and the only way to determine if a file is correct is to check the sha-1 (or MD5 and CRC-32).

 

I compared these three releases with the 12/16 release 1.1 available on idgames and I noticed that the 12/15 release has TWO bugs in the save game:

 

1: Save slots 5 and 6 do not work correctly and the game always saves in slots 1 or 2.

In the 12/16 release on idgames THE BUG IS STILL PRESENT.

 

2: Level 2 (E1M2) is impossible to complete if you save the game. The bug is mentioned here (Daniel J Mitchell post)

Played from start to finish the level works correctly, but loading a save the level cannot be completed: the blue lift at the end of the level doesn’t work and you cannot use the switch.

In the 12/16 release THE BUG HAS BEEN FIXED AND THE SAVE WORKS CORRECTLY.

 

All the files are in the zip archive below.

 

DOOMSW 1.1 12:15.zip

 

 

I hope that these are the right files you are talking about. Sorry for any inconvenience. :)

I manually installed the DP Tool Club 11 CD version, compared the SHA-1 with that on the wiki, and it is indeed the December 15th release!

If I may ask, how did you find these CDs in the first place? Do you actually own them or did you find them on the Internet Archive or something similar?

Edited March 21, 2023 by EliDoesStuff

[thestarrover]

21 hours ago, EliDoesStuff said:

If I may ask, how did you find these CDs in the first place?

I made a search on Discmaster for the doom.exe files dated 12/15/1993. I manually checked the files and so i played both 12/15 and 12/16 versions on dosbox.

Just for curiosity I updated Doom 0.99 (1.0) to 1.1 with the standalone patch and, once patched, both doom.exe and doom1.wad match the 12/15 release. 
It is curious that the 12/15 release, and the patch, are not on idgames.

Edited March 22, 2023 by thestarrover

[Doomkid]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:14 PM, Murdoch said:

Speaking of quirks...

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sky_never_changes_in_Doom_II

This is news to me. I never had a problem with sky changes in Doom II. Anyone know anything more about this or do I need to stick my tinfoil hat on and start talking about the Mandela Effect?

 

A cool thing is that this bug was actually - finally - fixed for the last revision of Final Doom for PC.. Eventually, in the rarest version that for years was only available through some (but not all) of the id Anthology collection boxes.. because why not!

 

 

None of these versions are demo compatible with eachother, for what its worth. (They have different complevels in PrBoom and DSDA-Doom for example)

[SiFi270]

I'm pretty sure both Ultimate and Anthology are complevel 3. The Chocolate family separates them into "ultimate" and "final2", but I'm pretty sure the only difference is the former uses Doom 2's strings if either Final Doom IWAD is loaded, because they naturally aren't recognized at that point.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

What's next Unity Doom port as version 1.12?

[Biz!]

1 hour ago, Wadmodder Shalton said:

What's next Unity Doom port as version 1.12?

yes