Possible lore connecting Wolfenstein 3D and Doom? (and maybe even ALL id games?)

[IHave10Shells]

They could maybe have happened in the same universe since they don't really interfere with each other's timeline. Plus Spear of Destiny had one pretty huge reveal. When anyone holds the spear, they are teleported into a hellish-looking environment and have to fight the angel of death to be worthy of holding the spear. This could probably mean that the spear was used by the UAC to make teleportation technology possible. This is maybe one of many theories that could prove that all id games take place in the same universe. (Also plus the obvious DooM RPG references.)

 

It would be very interesting if an ID timeline was made or something like that.

Edited March 14, 2023 by IHave10Shells
spelling mistake 💀

[Klear]

B. J. Blazkowicz from Wolfenstein is the grandfather of Billy Blaze AKA Commander Keen, who in turn is an ancestor of Doomguy.

 

The games being connected is already canon.

[HeatedChocolate]

It is my headcanon that Hexen and Heretic (and also their sequels) are vaguely connected via multiverse bullshit, as explored in Heretic and Heretic 2.

[Individualised]

An interesting point was brought up in this topic:

DOOM II's text screen for its MAP31 Wolfenstein secret level mentions Hell, even though the player hasn't visited Hell yet, the level is accessed from a city level. This implies that the Nazis, and Castle Wolfenstein itself, were all sent to Hell long before the events of DOOM II.

 

Or... the secret exit was originally in a later, Hell level and they changed it around last minute. Who knows.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Individualised

[Klear]

We know that. You can see it from first person as they are all sent to hell by BJ.

[BCHQ]

13 hours ago, HeatedChocolate said:

It is my headcanon that Hexen and Heretic (and also their sequels) are vaguely connected via multiverse bullshit, as explored in Heretic and Heretic 2.

 

They have always been connected: https://heretic.fandom.com/wiki/Serpent_Riders

[IHave10Shells]

6 hours ago, Individualised said:

An interesting point was brought up in this topic:

DOOM II's text screen for its MAP31 Wolfenstein secret level mentions Hell, even though the player hasn't visited Hell yet, the level is accessed from a city level. This implies that the Nazis, and Castle Wolfenstein itself, were all sent to Hell long before the events of DOOM II.

 

Or... the secret exit was originally in a later, Hell level and they changed it around last minute. Who knows.

Yeah, that's interesting. It's kinda like when Deimos was absorbed and corrupted into hell. Maybe hell thought that nazis were already so evil that they did not need to corrupt it with satanism? Plus map31 uses the same music which is played in the fight with the angel of death.

 

Oh yeah and also if these secret levels is canon in any sort of way to the lore, those floating hanging commander keens will have to be canon too somehow, and that would be hard to explain. :/

Edited March 15, 2023 by IHave10Shells
weird word placement

[Sonikkumania]

So is RAGE like post Doom 2 in a way?

[Gez]

Here's some real lore connecting Wolf 3D and Doom and Quake: they're all developed by id Software.

 

That's it. That's all there is to it.

 

Everything else is Easter eggs and fanwankery.

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, Sonikkumania said:

So is RAGE like post Doom 2 in a way?

 

Not remotely. In Rage the apocalypse was an asteroid strike if memory serves, or something like that. It's been a while.

 

39 minutes ago, Gez said:

Everything else is Easter eggs and fanwankery

 

The RPG games make a connection between pretty clear. BJ fights a pre-cyber Cyberdemon. But early id paid as much attention to lore as i do celebrity gossip. They knew it was there, but don't especially care. Trying to draw definite detailed connections will lead to madness. 

[Sonikkumania]

6 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

 

Not remotely. In Rage the apocalypse was an asteroid strike if memory serves, or something like that. It's been a while.

Yeah I recall too. For me it's more like a "what if" type of thing. 

[Fiber Wire]

But why? Why does everything have to be multiverse cinematic universe ultraverse snyderverse alternativersed together? Can we not enjoy things for what they are and appreciate what sets them apart?

 

I feel like all the “lore” that exists that attempts to tie them all together was done in jest. For example, at the end of episode 3 there is no mention that the dead rabbit is a pet of Doomguy. It makes no sense anyways, but it makes for a funny story as an excuse to add an additional episode. 
 

I guess this is just a case of different strokes and all that, but I just don’t care for the obsession with wanting to tie every game ever made from one company together because there’s usually many hoops and loops being taken to try to make sense of it all. Even games that have multiple entries in the series have trouble connecting them together at times and retcon past plot lines to make sense of future actions of a later game. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Fiber Wire

[Captain POLAND]

6 hours ago, IHave10Shells said:

Oh yeah and also if these secret levels is canon in any sort of way to the lore, those floating hanging commander keens will have to be canon too somehow, and that would be hard to explain. :/

 

The demons are trying to demoralize Doomguy by forcing him to shoot replicas of his own ancestor to advance. But he doesn't care.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Captain POLAND

[HeatedChocolate]

14 hours ago, BCHQ said:

 

They have always been connected: https://heretic.fandom.com/wiki/Serpent_Riders

Oh no I meant connected to Doom/Wolf3d lol.
Also there's a theory I read somewhere that the Strogg from Quake 2 became the metal and flesh abominations to prevent possession by demons and whatnot, which we clearly see happening to the hapless grunts of the UAC.

[Gez]

Thing is, if you take too seriously the Easter eggs and the spinoffs of dubious canonicity, you can end up making a giant mess where every video game universe is the same.

 

For example: in NuDoom, there are textures showing that Vault-Tec (Fallout's equivalent of the UAC) exists. And in Fallout 4, you can find the BFG 9000. So Fallout and Doom are in the same universe! This is confirmed on both sides!!!1! Then you can also find Nirnroots in Fallout, and the remains of the Dragonborn in Doom, so this Doom/Fallout universe is also the same as the Elder Scrolls universe. This is further confirmed by both Doom and Skyrim being in Fall Guys. Now let's take a look at the library in the Doom Eternal Fortress of DOOOOM!...

 

10 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

The demons are trying to demoralize Doomguy by forcing him to shoot replicas of his own ancestor to advance. But he doesn't care. 

but if Commander Keen and Doom are in the same universe, why don't we find Gargs and Yorps and Pat-Pats and Vorticons in Doom 3's Mars City? I want an immersive, lore-friendly Doom Mars Continuity mod where we find a pogo stick to traverse the Mars levels more quickly, this is absolutely what Doom needs.

 

Or maybe this whole crossover thing is just silly, and it's better for everyone's sanity if we don't consider that the Commander Keen, Wolfenstein, and Doom universes are in any way connected.

[Klear]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

I want an immersive, lore-friendly Doom Mars Continuity mod where we find a pogo stick to traverse the Mars levels more quickly, this is absolutely what Doom needs.

 

Unironically this.

[ReaperAA]

18 hours ago, Gez said:

Thing is, if you take too seriously the Easter eggs and the spinoffs of dubious canonicity, you can end up making a giant mess where every video game universe is the same.

 

For example: in NuDoom, there are textures showing that Vault-Tec (Fallout's equivalent of the UAC) exists. And in Fallout 4, you can find the BFG 9000. So Fallout and Doom are in the same universe! This is confirmed on both sides!!!1! Then you can also find Nirnroots in Fallout, and the remains of the Dragonborn in Doom, so this Doom/Fallout universe is also the same as the Elder Scrolls universe. This is further confirmed by both Doom and Skyrim being in Fall Guys. Now let's take a look at the library in the Doom Eternal Fortress of DOOOOM!...

 

but if Commander Keen and Doom are in the same universe, why don't we find Gargs and Yorps and Pat-Pats and Vorticons in Doom 3's Mars City? I want an immersive, lore-friendly Doom Mars Continuity mod where we find a pogo stick to traverse the Mars levels more quickly, this is absolutely what Doom needs.

 

Or maybe this whole crossover thing is just silly, and it's better for everyone's sanity if we don't consider that the Commander Keen, Wolfenstein, and Doom universes are in any way connected.

 

Exactly. This is why I never liked Doom, Wolf and Keen being part of same universe as canon. I will never... and I mean NEVER accept them as same universe. It's just too stupid of an idea and I have always hated it.

[IHave10Shells]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:53 PM, Gez said:

Thing is, if you take too seriously the Easter eggs and the spinoffs of dubious canonicity, you can end up making a giant mess where every video game universe is the same.

 

For example: in NuDoom, there are textures showing that Vault-Tec (Fallout's equivalent of the UAC) exists. And in Fallout 4, you can find the BFG 9000. So Fallout and Doom are in the same universe! This is confirmed on both sides!!!1! Then you can also find Nirnroots in Fallout, and the remains of the Dragonborn in Doom, so this Doom/Fallout universe is also the same as the Elder Scrolls universe. This is further confirmed by both Doom and Skyrim being in Fall Guys. Now let's take a look at the library in the Doom Eternal Fortress of DOOOOM!...

 

but if Commander Keen and Doom are in the same universe, why don't we find Gargs and Yorps and Pat-Pats and Vorticons in Doom 3's Mars City? I want an immersive, lore-friendly Doom Mars Continuity mod where we find a pogo stick to traverse the Mars levels more quickly, this is absolutely what Doom needs.

 

Or maybe this whole crossover thing is just silly, and it's better for everyone's sanity if we don't consider that the Commander Keen, Wolfenstein, and Doom universes are in any way connected.

Yeah, maybe you're right. Now that I think about it making an timeline would be confusing.

Edited March 17, 2023 by IHave10Shells

[Captain POLAND]

On 3/16/2023 at 6:23 AM, Gez said:

but if Commander Keen and Doom are in the same universe, why don't we find Gargs and Yorps and Pat-Pats and Vorticons in Doom 3's Mars City?

 

The demons killed them?

[Guff dotD]

The real:

 

[TheSlipgateStudios]

I guess Heretic is just a medieval Earth and Doomguy is Corvus's descendant?

[Gifty]

The mainstreaming of nerd culture and subsequent rise of a certain hyper-curatorial approach to art has led to a sort of language barrier when engaging with older media; because franchising and shared universe are now overwhelmingly expected and default, and the pavlovian loop of finding "clues" seeded in every frame is so prevalent, this modern perspective gets superimposed onto older art in a way that masks its original intent or context, and sends false signals. The modern fandom mindset cannot understand the design language of a simpler, looser, more undefined time. Most major nerd franchises are predicated on lore that was largely made up over the course of an afternoon, but history is rewritten such that it had always been part of some grand design with an empirical inner logic. The original context for the work is lost.

 

TLDR Star Wars was never meant to withstand scrutiny and sometimes a Dopefish gag is just a Dopefish gag

Edited March 18, 2023 by Gifty

[Gez]

15 hours ago, Guff dotD said:

The real:

 

The even more realer:

 

 

At last, the truth revealed!

[Boaby Kenobi]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:26 PM, IHave10Shells said:

It would be very interesting if an ID timeline was made or something like that.

 

 

https://i.redd.it/m9xo17j68h351.jpg

Edited March 18, 2023 by Boaby Kenobi