Favorite Dobu map?

[Catpho]

TL;DR: Thread title. Be as detailed as you'd like. If you don't know who Dobu is or you need a refresher on his levels, here’s his Doom wiki page. If you dislike looking at pure text, look at this post or his Twitch about me for some beautiful screens. Or I can just show you stuff ripped from various places:

 

I recently played through a sizable chunk (although hardly at the finish line for the map is beefy) of Dobu's DMP2014 submission "Immundum", and I was reminded how great his maps are. Even if he can no doubt make a sexier version of that map today, it's still chock full of ideas and an unmistakable command of tone. Going by memory right now, I'd say my favorite is Saturnine Chapel. It's got everything Dobu does well at his peak: cruel, crafty murderbox set-ups, lavish visuals, and drenched in lore. He'd continue to do all of these aspects very well in his future releases (and, presumably, in his mountain of WIPs), but SatChap is probably still the one that aligned all of his gifts in perfect order that's tailor made for me. Also, I adore his puzzle maps but still wish there were monsters in them, so there's my bias.

[Gez]

My favorite Dobu map is when he said "it's dobin' time" and then dobed all over the linedefs.

 

More seriously though, Transduction is one of my favorite maps of all times, but it was a collab work. For a pure Dobu map, The Given is certainly the one that left the biggest impression.

[Andromeda]

"Cold Seep", definitely. Honourable mentions to "Surreptitious Ichor", "Madman's Vault" and "Sinkysand Switchland".

[Nefelibeta]

Best gameplay: Surreptitious Ichor

Best everything else: Saturnine Chapel

 

I haven't played a lot of dobu maps, so don't take that seriously. :P

[Not Jabba]

Saturnine Chapel and The Given are both somewhere around my top ten maps of all time. I miss dobu.

[Steve D]

20 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

Saturnine Chapel and The Given are both somewhere around my top ten maps of all time. I miss dobu.

 

No need to miss Dobu. I have 2 Dobu collabs in Realm of Chaos 2: The Revenge of '96.  One is with Rob Berkowitz and the other is with Rob's son, Leo Berahovich. Then there's a Dobu exclusive, Los Numeros del Diablo. And if all the stars align correctly, there's this other thing . . . :)

 

Ultimate Doom In Name Only has still more Dobu goodness on the way, to the tune of about 10 maps, including 5 that are all Dobu! If all goes well, 2023 will see us happily drowning in Dobu maps. Life is good. :)

Edited March 26, 2023 by Steve D

[cannonball]

Ah the Midtex wizard, the puzzle master. I don’t think there are many other mappers who have such a large portfolio of smash-hit maps. 
As for a favourite, part of me wants to go with Iron Exuviae, purely for the sheer impact-fulness of seeing this drop in the project and blowing pretty much all of the other submissions out of the water. 
It was great to collaborate with Dobu for Surreptitious Ichor, and I am glad of how the map panned out, it is definitely a case of majority credit going to Dobu. Especially for the visual storytelling.

Edited March 25, 2023 by cannonball

[Catpho]

Thanks for the replies so far. As evident, I'm feeling like talking about Dobu, so here's some short reflections on the maps + other stuff brought up here.

 

Gez: Transduction is dope, and was one of my favorite levels at the time of its release, and I won't argue against its place on the 2018 most memorable maps list. I think I personally cooled on it a bit because the bloodshed is quite restrained compared to his other releases, and while I don't believe combat intensity to be the be-all-end-all, for some reason I feel like this is a semi-compromise from Dobu due to working in a more popular set. I guess I have a fairly specific picture on Dobu's mapping, which is saying something considering how he's not one to repeat himself often.

 

The Given: Yeah, it's probably my pick for my second favorite map of his. It's all down to it being the single most well-realized setting I've seen in all of Doomdom. Dobu detailing style gives the impression of something messy organically spiraling out of control, yet it does so in a manner that if you pause for any given moment there's someone's entire history waiting there. It's like watching stop-motion in Doom map form in how dazzlingly yet personalized it looks on a craft level, regardless of the actual technical difficulty of the execution.

 

The puzzle aspects are kinda secondary in this map, although I think most would not disagree too hard on this. In fact, I think Dobu should have went all out and not have those red torches hint, as he originally conceived it, even if it will leave me hopelessly lost :D

 

Andromeda: Cold Seep! Now that's a pick. To me, it ranks a bit low for me personally because it's more focused on being a good Doom map than being these unwieldy arty attempts at redefining interactive expression, but of course it would be unreasonable to hold that as a sin :) It's still hardly a run-of-the-mill Doom level, what with his characteristic scene setting and detailed, personalized combat set-ups. Dobu would probably still rank as a favorite mapper of mine even if all he had was his "merciless" brand of fighting (in fact, I'm still waiting for the titular WIP to come out, someday), but, well, we can have cake :) Just for another personal note, I still think SatChap probably still plays better on a per fight basis, but the pacing is more esoteric. Need replays though.

 

Cannonball: I've seen you pick Iron Exuviae several times, and I think I can agree on some level! He's made better maps for sure imo, and even broadly prettier or more interesting levels since, but there's something about "Iron" that, for its relatively "modest" ambitions, feels so complete and confident, like a wellspring for the golden Dobu years to follow. Everything I think about SatChap can be traced back in some form to "Iron", but it refuses to feel like a prototype, everything it did well is still functioning now as it did in 2014. 

 

I'll get to the rest in a bit.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Catpho

[Tristan]

Have to say this is a fantastic idea for a thread and I hope we see more like it!

 

dobu is one of my favourite mappers and I think the first time I played his edits to Transduction was when that was cemented for me. It's worth remembering that Transduction was a fairly ordinary map in its earlier stages, one of many that got booted from TNT2 back in 2014. The TNT:R founders definitely deserve some kudos for getting the ball rolling on turning it into more of a horror map, but iirc the Wormhole homage was just kinda there and not really symbolic of anything... I was absolutely blown away when I saw what dobu had done with that section and everything past it.

 

Like Transduction, I can't really talk about The Given without some degree of bias, but that was another definitive 'holy shit' moment. Yes, I agree, although it's known for being the monsterless puzzle map from that top 100 list, I don't think that's really the point. The Given is a story. The scale is immense, the castle, the town, the wizard's towers, the mines, the sawmill, the graveyard - it's a world that really feels like it is/was lived in. There's even a lengthy prologue story embedded in the WAD which can be found when you open it in SLADE. This WAD is a masterpiece. I hope the wizards got their own turn on the guillotine. Fuckers.

 

Lastly, I'm gonna be a bastard and name a map that isn't out yet: Beloved Asphyxia, from Panophobia.

 

All I'll say about this is that claustrophobia as the central theme of a Doom map is something that could so easily backfire horribly. Beloved Asphyxia does not backfire. I think the people who liked the suspenseful atmosphere of Transduction will also find a lot to love in this map too, and I hope one day you all can experience it for yourselves.

[Jimmy]

Anybody play Dobu's intro map from episode 3 of Joy of Mapping 6?

 

It's a baffling, uncanny experience that apes on the original E3M1, Hell Keep. It made me giggle and exclaim in confusion in equal measure when I first played it.

[Catpho]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Anybody play Dobu's intro map from episode 3 of Joy of Mapping 6?

Yeah, that one rocks! It's too bad that myhouse has taken the spot for mind-bending Doom twists in my heart, or I'd have mentioned it. Of course I'm just being peculiar, as there's no reason one can't have both.

[Jimmy]

It's spoilerific to even mention it, and I was considering doing so myself, but suffice it to say, people who enjoyed My House will get a kick out of Chaotic Keep.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Jimmy

[slowfade]

I wasn't familiar with any of them (unless I've played one without knowing, which I doubt) but I will definitely be checking this stuff out and soon! Looks awesome and reading this it sounds like he's making the kind of non-traditional maps that I like.

[brick]

The only Dobu map I've played is Saturnine Chapel but it blew me away with its surreal visuals (those floating/translucent bookcases...), the amazing use of the default colours, and the combination of small deadly fights and small-scale puzzle-solving. The atmosphere and both aspects of gameplay balance so well against each other. I was also impressed that Dobu put so much work and effort into making such a complex map that is also such a quick play, there isn't a single second of filler gameplay for those who want to play quick, but it's also so rewarding to play slow and admire the sights and let the atmosphere creep in. It's definitely made me interested in checking out more Dobu maps, I'm particularly interested in The Given since I tend to like exploration or puzzle more than combat challenges (and knowing this, I think it's doubly impressive that SatChap managed to make me love its combat as much as it did).

[General Roasterock]

Gonna drop a chunk of my appreciation for Moonlight here, as my uni experience made it my favorite puzzle map ever. I put it above The Given for its simplicity and inner narrative beauty. 

[Steve D]

Having assured people that we're getting a lot of Dobu content this year, I can now name my fave Dobu map. For me, it was close between Cold Seep and Saturnine Chapel. The advantage of Cold Seep is that I can actually beat it on UV, which is a rare thing for me when it comes to a Dobu map that's hard. This map still holds the record for Steve D pelts at 88, including 58 in a row at the final battle! Gimme a break, it was a bad day. ;D. Saturnine Chapel, by contrast, is beyond my skill level on UV, and as is common when I encounter hard Dobu maps, I play it on HNTR. It's even more stylish than Cold Seep, with all kinds of innovative tricks, and for this reason it gets the nod.

 

So that's my favorite of Dobu's released maps. 

 

I'm restricting this to pure Dobu maps, and am not counting collabs, though if I did, I'm a huge fan of both his collabs -- Snow Assault and Tower of Treachery -- in Realm of Chaos 2. Then there's his solo effort, Los Numeros del Diablo, which IMO is right up there with Cold Seep. I haven't played all of his maps from Ultimate Doom In Name Only, but I remember his version of Pandemonium being spectacular. However, for now, and following @Tristan's lead, there is yet another unreleased map I've seen that is simply staggering. I won't name it or show a pic, but trust me on this one. Yeah, I know, I'm a total jagoff. :D When you all see it, you'll know I speak the truth.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Steve D

[Shepardus]

Reading this thread made me realize how few dobu gabu maru maps I've played. I've played The Given, Saturnine Chapel (on ITYTD I think?), and his maps in TNT Revilution... Of those I liked The Given the most, but they're all very different maps. Gotta give Moonlight a try someday.

[dobu gabu maru]

Well now, this is a nice surprise!!! I'm always looking for more feedback and information as to what people like & don't like, so this easily made my night :)

 

It's still so funny to me that people enjoyed Saturnine Chapel, just because that was definitely one of those maps I made for me and no one else. Low outside playtesting and input, obnoxious fights that require microscopic movement, no flexibility given in as to how to approach encounters... fun times. Another funny thing is that previously, I was trying as best I could to make my stuff as accommodating & community-friendly as possible... and yet when I was like "ah screw it" is when folks were like "hey this is pretty neat!" Could just be that I've gotten better at mapping since the NOVA 1 days, or that folks find my uninhibited approach more stimulating, or some combo of the two. Maybe it's just the Insane_Gazebo effect: make a map alluring enough and people will come to appreciate it, no matter how punishing or dumb the gameplay might be. (Sorry I_G but I probably won't play Precarious or The Cage ever again.)

 

As for my preference looking back, I suppose I think of Moonlight most fondly—though its connection to Doom is tenuous at best. I put in a lot of work tinkering and re-tinkering the puzzles (I wrote the base alphabet like 3 or 4 times to make it as least confusing as possible) and coming up with some of the visual effects was really fun and satisfying to do.

 

As for a map with actual monsters in it, E4M8 from UDINO is my current favorite—but again, it's kind of an outlier given its unorthodox nature. Like with Moonlight, it was an interesting challenge to piece together and took a lot of playtesting to pull off. I think a lot of players are going to hate it or find it obnoxious-if-not-purposely-spiteful, but like with Saturnine Chapel, I had an idea in mind and committed to it 100%. It's one of those maps that turned out exactly as I had envisioned it to be.

 

Ironically, neither of those are what I'd consider my best map. Steve currently has that one in his possession, and is waiting on me to fix some bugs... which I guess I'll get back to since people probably want to see it before 2030 :P