New to the Forum, and after all of the advice!

[_youngkoala]

Hi all,

 

I am new to the forum.

 

My first doom experience was E1 in the 90’s when I was a child, and the bruiser bros (I called them Slimeguys lololol) used to terrify me!!

 

I have not used a computer in years, and my Doom experience over the last 2-3 years has all been on Nintendo Switch, playing through all the WADS shared by Bethesda.

 

I have become obsessed with watching Doomers play on YouTube over the past few years, and seeing how incredible some of the WADS are that have been created (Sunlust, BTSX, Going Down, Ancient Aliens spring to mind) I have decided I would really love to learn how to map myself.

 

So I have a great idea for a Full 32 level MegaWAD, but I know that is a seriously ambitious task! I have downloaded Slade (I have an Apple Computer), and have access to Freedoom.wad, I’ve also downloaded Sunlust.wad, will probably buy Doom 2 aswell to access all of the bits and bobs.

 

At the moment, I can barely design a sector, let alone a full room, let alone a level, let alone a megawad 🤣🤣

 

I am just looking for any advice whatsoever for a brand new aspiring mapper!

 

Thank you in advance 😁

[Fiber Wire]

Since you’re unfortunately on an Apple machine… Try this level editor instead. SLADE3 is a great tool but the built in map editor may not be the best for a beginner. Check out this playlist to get you started with Eureka.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Fiber Wire

[_youngkoala]

28 minutes ago, Fiber Wire said:

Since you’re unfortunately on an Apple machine… Try this level editor instead. SLADE3 is a great tool but the built in map editor may not be the best for a beginner. Check out this playlist to get you started with Eureka.

thanks will check it out 👍🏼👍🏼

[RonnieJamesDiner]

Welcome!

 

For starters, most people would advise against tackling a full megawad as your first project (sort of like deciding to write an entire album as you're sitting down for your first guitar lesson; it's not inconceivable, but a lot will change). That said, if your heart is set on it, it'll be a good learning experience either way.

 

Play Doom. In fact, probably play a lot of Doom. That doesn't necessarily mean you absolutely need to play through all of the commercial IWADS (though, having that perspective certainly has value), but, really understanding the core mechanics behind the weapons, resources, and monsters (and the relationships between them) will help you tremendously. And, there's a "feel" to a lot of this that can't be learned by watching videos/playthroughs/streams. On top of that, playing other peoples' work can be a great source of inspiration for your own maps.

 

Spend time with the editor, mess around and have fun, make stuff. The more comfortable you become with the editor, the easier it will be to execute your ideas (especially the more ambitious ones). I wouldn't recommend being in any sort of rush to get something finished just for the sake of it.

 

The other side of that coin is, I wouldn't recommend endlessly reworking stuff to the nth degree until the end of recorded time, either. The best "doom mapping teacher" is feedback from players playing your stuff. It's all well and good to take your time polishing and testing, but at the end of the day, you're going to learn a lot from player experience. Watching someone wander around your level for 5 minutes looking for a switch (that you were sure was obvious) isn't fun for any mapper, but you'll probably figure out how to solve that problem when you build your next map, which is awesome. Feedback is the single best way to learn and improve, and always will be.

 

Posting a wad here (well, in the Wads and Mods section) is obviously a great place to get your stuff seen, and played, but keep in mind that there's no guarantees. It's not uncommon for project releases to get very few responses (or none), and it doesn't automatically mean that your work was garbage. Sometimes, it's as innocuous as people being busy with life, or the thread simply got overlooked or overshadowed, or any number of things. If that happens, try not to let it dishearten you. If mapping is something you really enjoy doing, keep going.

 

But, first impressions go a long way, and a "release" thread with some care put into it can genuinely make the difference. Provide the important details that a player will be looking for at a quick glance, and make it clean. Show your map(s) off with some gorgeous screenshots. Put as much care into your post as you put into your map. And, for gods sake, don't trash talk your own level in your release thread (yes, people do this, and it doesn't inspire any confidence in clicking that download button).

 

Best of luck with mapping, and have fun!    

 

 

[msx2plus]

44 minutes ago, RonnieJamesDiner said:

Spend time with the editor, mess around and have fun, make stuff.

this is the end all be all of *any* creative endeavor. have fun playing around. it's toys and games. get comfortable making trash for yourself for fun to build up your skill set and vocabulary. lots of small experiments = faster failures = more learning.

Edited April 2, 2023 by msx2plus

[ImproversGaming]

I have no mapping experience but have lot of experience in taking on new things. My recommendation would be to first create a very basic exploratory map to get a feel for the tools, processes and mechanics for creating a map. The only goal being to have a first pass at how it all works and using the tools to create something that covers lots of basics (switches, doors, teleports, triggers, etc., etc.). Don't worry about the aesthetics just build some initial experience. Supplement this by opening up maps that you like and see how they were created.

After you have the foundation start planning for something more ambitious. Just my initial thoughts I am not an expert.

 

For any of us to develop creative skills in isolation is tough so I would recommend sharing your progress in creating new maps so that some of the community playtesters can provide some constructive input:

Also spend some time digging around in this subforum - that is more focussed around creating WADs:
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/4-wads-mods/

 

Finally, we have some very creative people that have shared their experiences so check our the links below and maybe follow some mapping livestreams on Twitch or YouTube! 

 

 

Good luck with this. Will be interesting to see how it goes!

[ImproversGaming]

Another thread emerging that @Bauul has added a useful link to:

 

[controlledbleeding]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:25 AM, msx2plus said:

this is the end all be all of *any* creative endeavor. have fun playing around. it's toys and games. get comfortable making trash for yourself for fun to build up your skill set and vocabulary. lots of small experiments = faster failures = more learning.

 

Hope it's not bad etiquette to reply to this a week later with something kinda tangential to the OP's topic but how exactly do you do this?

 

More specifically how do you have fun when that which you are currently able to create is extremely unsatisfying (and you can't unsee all its seams and shortcomings and compromises) compared to that which inspires you, the things you normally enjoy that others have made?

 

Asking as someone who's been mapping  amateurishly and also dabbling in music for a few years now but can't imagine actually releasing any of it because it just sucks.

[msx2plus]

54 minutes ago, controlledbleeding said:

how do you have fun when that which you are currently able to create is extremely unsatisfying [...] compared to that which inspires you

first and foremost, stop comparing. you're never going to be an [insert your favorite mapper, artist, musician, etc]. you're going to end up being you. so just create honestly. comparing yourself to people who have been doing something for much, much longer than you is a huge mistake. comparing yourself to *anybody* is a mistake, we all walk different paths and learn/develop/grow differently. there are too many factors to draw any meaningful comparison. all you can do is what you do. if you can make yourself smile or laugh a little, start there. execute on funny ideas whenever you have them to get the ball rolling. in the beginning, the infectious energy of a joke will be much easier to get started than something big or lofty. don't even consider "big" or "lofty". you can come back to those ideas whenever you have the skills developed. you can come back to them multiple times, even. but what's important here and now is that you just let yourself have fun.

 

54 minutes ago, controlledbleeding said:

can't unsee all its seams and shortcomings and compromises

this is an endless cycle. you can keep doing this to yourself forever or you can say "fuck it lmao done". there is no reason to exhaust yourself over detail unless you find great joy in that aspect of the work. if you find the part of creating that gives you joy, you will create your best work, and in your best work, all of those shortcomings disappear in the shadow of its strengths.

Edited April 10, 2023 by msx2plus

[controlledbleeding]

16 minutes ago, msx2plus said:

first and foremost, stop comparing. you're never going to be an [insert your favorite mapper, artist, musician, etc]. you're going to end up being you. so just create honestly. comparing yourself to people who have been doing something for much, much longer than you is a huge mistake. comparing yourself to *anybody* is a mistake, we all walk different paths and learn/develop/grow differently. there are too many factors to draw any meaningful comparison. all you can do is what you do. if you can make yourself smile or laugh a little, start there. execute on funny ideas whenever you have them to get the ball rolling. in the beginning, the infectious energy of a joke will be much easier to get started than something big or lofty. don't even consider "big" or "lofty". you can come back to those ideas whenever you have the skills developed. you can come back to them multiple times, even. but what's important here and now is that you just let yourself have fun.

 

this is an endless cycle. you can keep doing this to yourself forever or you can say "fuck it lmao done". there is no reason to exhaust yourself over detail unless you find great joy in that aspect of the work. if you find the part of creating that gives you joy, you will create your best work, and in your best work, all of those shortcomings disappear in the shadow of its strengths.

 

Wow I didn't expect such a prompt reply! I may have misrepresented myself slightly before, because I'm not exactly inexperienced, I've ended up finishing way more levels and even small sets than i honestly ever thought I would when I started 4 years ago, and I definitely know what you mean about having to stop and say "fuck it I'm done", though I can never seem to punctuate it with lmao, more like "wow I'm feeling burnt out now". Still get on the treadmill not long after anyway. But I'm surprised myself that I can pop in something like Alien Vendetta or Darkening or any of the Scythes (which are very much old hat at this point) and still go "man these people have a way with making an area look nice with just a minimum of lines and not much actual sector art". Just one of many things I love about them that I wish i could do. Hell I'll be honest there's probably newer folks in the community who've been doing this for less time and still impress me in various ways. So it's not always about being less experienced than the other creator.

 

I hear what you say about "funny" ideas, I think that probably could work when making Doom levels. Maybe not so much for music, but that might just be my f'd up taste. Well this isn't a music forum anyway so nevermind!  Thanks for the reply!

[Lonespacemarine]

Hey dude 

Listen don't ever shitpost in topics 

Even if they are old and abandoned

I did it once for fun and learned the hard way