Opinion on non-MIDI sound tracks?

[St. Mildly Annoyed]

Do you tend to prefer only using MIDI soundtracks, or do you not care as long as it fits the WAD?

[continuum.mid]

To me, the sound of Doom is MIDIs played with Roland Sound Canvas samples, so whenever a WAD uses a non-MIDI soundtrack it risks feeling incongruent, but I've seen it work well. Non-MIDIs are definitely best in heavily modified GZDoom-type settings, where it feels more like a modern PC shooter, than a mod for a 90s MS-DOS shooter, otherwise there's a clash between the retro graphics and modern sounds. Even most chiptune soundtracks aren't quite congruent with vanilla-style WADs.

 

I much prefer the James Paddock soundtrack for SIGIL to the Buckethead soundtrack. But I also really like @Velvetic's soundtrack for "Atmospheric Extinction", and (as I recall) those are prog metal instrumentals in a Boom mapset. So uh... I guess it's fine as long as it fits the WAD.

Edited April 10, 2023 by continuum.mid

[YourOpinionsAreWRONG]

I guess Midi's are best for a more "authentic" Doom experience, but if using non-midi's work for the WAD, it works for the WAD and I don't see why you shouldn't do it at that point.

 

That being said, I used MP3s for my WAD which made the file size more than 350mb! Nearly killed the launch, luckily @RastaManGames saved my ass by compressing the files down to 15mb. So, make sure that doesn't happen haha.

[controlledbleeding]

In my opinion it would be pretty cool if we got a few WADs that used a module/tracker soundtrack considering that both PrBoom+ and ZDoom both natively support the format (no idea about other port families sorry).

 

For those who don't know, tracker music is technically sequenced just like MIDI but allows the composer to define their own instruments and use their own samples. The format was notably used in the soundtracks for Unreal, Unreal Tournament and Deus Ex. File sizes are usually gonna be on the order of hundreds of kilobytes so still nowhere near as taxing as putting MP3 songs in a WAD.

 

To my knowledge only Sacrament and Whitemare2 have ever done this (and only for like one or two levels each) which is a shame because those games had awesome soundtracks.

[Shepardus]

2 hours ago, controlledbleeding said:

To my knowledge only Sacrament and Whitemare2 have ever done this (and only for like one or two levels each) which is a shame because those games had awesome soundtracks.

NoReason's Speedmaps (NoSP) 2 and 3, DBP36, and Akashic Migraine use predominantly tracker music. At least one map in Poogers does as well.

 

I've never been particularly fond of MIDIs. That's not to say that there aren't great MIDIs, but a lot of my favorite music choices in WADs are non-MIDI and I'd like to see more of that.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Shepardus

[NaZa]

1 hour ago, controlledbleeding said:

To my knowledge only Sacrament and Whitemare2 have ever done this (and only for like one or two levels each) which is a shame because those games had awesome soundtracks.

 

Afaik Lazarevenant (though it's still a 13 map WIP) uses exclusively .MOD music. 

[esselfortium]

I think there's a lot of room for exploring different sounds and styles in Doom maps, both within and without the limitations of general MIDI. One of the first Doom soundtracks that really got my attention (Julian Hope's RTC-3057 soundtrack) is a fully-produced MP3/OGG soundtrack full of ambient and breakbeat music that would never work in MIDI format. As always, it helps to use music that complements the gameplay pacing and visual styling of your map — a lowkey E1 remix with bombastic movie-trailer music is probably going to be a bit of an odd juxtaposition, but I suppose you can try anything if you want to.

 

Working on Supplice's soundtrack has been a fun opportunity to take some of the trends in 2010s/2020s Doom PWAD soundtracks and develop them into live-sounding productions.

[Bobby :D]

I think with as many .mod files (or at least influence from tracker music) that many veteran doom composers have made it's surprising the format hasn't been experimented with in more wads. I especially want to see more music in wads styled like the kind of chip music you hear in Sega MD stuffs, I think that general field of inspiration would make a perfect fit in the current doom scene.

Imagine booting up a doom wad and you hear something like this:

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Bobby "J

[yakfak]

violence's music works pretty good

i support everyone who wants to moving on from midi if they prefer other formats and workspaces uhhh i don't really feel like making midi ever again cos i can just make .it stuff that sounds like midi, change the envelopes on those old samples or just bring in better drums etc

 

(i've done several wads with non-midi music and will let people find them on their own lol)

[quakis]

Just a heads up regarding the talk on module/tracker music, there's an ongoing community project for DOOM1 focused on creating a module soundtrack which hasn't caught much attention yet. If there's composers out there interested in such an endeavor and missed the thread, consider taking a look:

 

 

 

[indigotyrian]

I'd love to see more music modules and/or rendered music in Doom wads. I'm not aware of too many that do it but Violence does stand out in my head for its awesome soundtrack.

[Jizzwardo]

I definitely think MIDI is really great for Doom maps, it fits the vibe so well imo and its quite a nice format to work with, so the barrier for entry with regards to writing your own songs for Doom is relatively low.

 

Modules are really cool too, but there's a time and place for them I personally think (I feel like the wad sort of needs to establish that it is using modules in tandem with MIDI overall/only using modules, I don't think a wad with 99 percent MIDI music and then one "out of place" module really fits I guess), and anything further than that (mp3, etc) I really think goes a bit too far and is a little bit uninspired.. I would much prefer to hear a MIDI version of a song rather than an mp3 of it, its a bit more endearing and a bit better suited to doom in my opinion.

[St. Mildly Annoyed]

On 4/10/2023 at 8:20 PM, quakis said:

Just a heads up regarding the talk on module/tracker music, there's an ongoing community project for DOOM1 focused on creating a module soundtrack which hasn't caught much attention yet. If there's composers out there interested in such an endeavor and missed the thread, consider taking a look:

 

 

 

Cool.

[S3M_XM]

I remembered calling that Bourgeois had an optional music pack for ZDoom-based (one for Zdoom and one for GZDoom/Zandronum) that had some module music in it.

It would be interesting to see more wads that use module tracker music more often.

[Somniac]

Tracker music goes so well with Doom IMO, Dark7 uses it really well ("Three Wheels Turning" in Doom? Hell yes). I remember hearing "Point of Departure" by Necros in Armageddon Invasion years ago and thinking how well it fitted. Some of the Jazz Jackrabbit stuff would go really well too, especially "Dark Groove" - I've heard MIDI versions of this in maps before and while it makes a decent MIDI, the tracker version has that airy, nostalgic pad and pulsing bass synth which I haven't heard a MIDI really nail down yet. 

[Deadwing]

I like both tbh, MIDI or non-MIDI. The only thing I don't enjoy much is alternative soundfount for MIDI soundtrack lol

[LadyMistDragon]

Definitely the latter. There are other games I would probably disagree with its utility on like Duke 3D and several CRPGs, but Doom's appeal is such I think either format could be made to work.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

When a map tries to go a little beyond the stock assets/gameplay, non-midi elevates the whole experience a lot for me. I tend to prefer tracker music but it's not a big deal. Midi are great and fit the whole doom vibe. But with wads like the already mentioned Akashic Migraine, the three tracker songs make it a unique experience that'll stick with you. Well, it did with me.

Also, some people know their way around the default midi instruments and they can layer and blend them to make incredible sounds.

[PsychEyeball]

I feel that the big problem with tracker music is this is a format that kinda came and went. It's got its fair share of advantages for sure, like for instance saving up on harddrive space while having professional sounding music, but since everyone and their mom now have high speed Internet and large harddrives, it's not as big a deal now than it was in the 90s when tracker music was really big. I'm kinda still surprised tracker music still is a thing today, I'd imagine everyone just shares music in MP3 or FLAC format.

 

As for me, I don't really care how the music is packaged anymore. Part of me hopes it's MIDI because then I can get the music to sound like about anything with all the GM devices I have. But I'll never look down on a full audio soundtrack. 

[Tristan]

I've nothing against trackers, but I've never had any interest in making them, it's a middle ground between MIDI and full audio that I'm honestly just not bothered about!

 

To answer the thread question, the latter - MP3s would probably sound weird in something like Memento Mori, MIDIs would sound ridiculous in Elementalism, it really depends on what the WAD needs from a general feel/aesthetic point of view. PSX Doom showed that full audio can work on the IWAD levels, but the maps themselves are modified to feel a lot more atmospheric regardless of music with the darker, coloured lighting, reverbs, and so on. If you slapped PSX music on top of the original PC maps, the effect wouldn't work nearly as well.

[continuum.mid]

9 hours ago, Tristan said:

To answer the thread question, the latter - MP3s would probably sound weird in something like Memento Mori, MIDIs would sound ridiculous in Elementalism, it really depends on what the WAD needs from a general feel/aesthetic point of view.

Actually yeah, this is pretty much my take. The soundtrack has to match the feel of the visuals and gameplay in some way. MIDI ambience and blues metal is a perfect fit for the arcadey IWADs and 90s PWADs, cinematic MP3s are a perfect fit for more graphically intense ZDoom PWADs, and ambient drones are a perfect fit for the dark, atmospherically lit version of Doom that was made for PSX.

Edited April 13, 2023 by continuum.mid

[St. Mildly Annoyed]

I just remember how awesome the 3DO soundtrack was. I feel like if the port wasn't so godawful, midi wouldn't be as dominant in wad soundtracks as it usually is.

[D0M0]

There are some wads that use non midi soundtracks very well and others that don’t.

 

Examples of ones which I particularly like are Comatose (i’ll talk about it later) as well as Dark Tartarus. Here’s my reason: Comatose is meant to be set in some ghost town of some sort, as all the enemies are spectre variants as well as the map being littered with dark and ominous details here and there. I personally would think that an ambience midi wouldn’t sound right to this kind if experience, and personally i think those sorts of midis drive me insane.

 

Instead Comatose uses portal ost for the ambience and the choice was very well made. It sounds as if you are completely lost, alone and unsure in a haunted place. It’s creepy yet also calming at the same time and it addresses the nature of the map you are playing. It’s brilliant!

 

What i’m trying to say really is that non midi soundtracks aren’t bad at all, and can actually work better than midi soundtracks in specific scenarios. However for most wads, i’d probably just stick with the midi soundtrack.

Edited April 23, 2023 by D0M0

[houston]

I love a groovy .module bgm, but when it comes to Doom, for me it's just got to be MIDI or nothing. I enjoy the customisation of picking out and cycling between two or three different soundfonts depending on how I feel like ruining the listening experience of Prince's music next. I've got yet another one of those SC-55 soundfonts, a PC-98 soundfont, and something labelled "Nokia 30" which has just beautiful, hollow bitcrushed sounds.

 

As for streamed audio (MP3, OGG, FLAC), I feel like it's got no place in Doom. It's just too jarring to hear a mapper try to outdo the Doom soundtrack with some crap they grabbed with youtube-dl or something.

[Ningen666]

I personally think they are fucking amazing. Especially XM/MOD soundtracks!

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Fine as long as it's, like, proper background music/ambience and not a song with lyrics or some shit (yes I've seen a WAD do this).  And if the whole feels consistent, for something that has multiple tracks.