[Community Project] Scythe: Resharpened

[RastaManGames]

I am OK with moving my maps to another place, but since I have somehow clear mind and working hands along with not died yet PC with UDB on it, I am gonna make revisions of my maps by myself according to notes from the responsible person.

After all, I have that kind of experience from "Hordamex" CP and it is not new to me to make revisions:

Edited May 1, 2023 by RastaManGames

[RastaManGames]

@Heretic926 Which exact source-port (name and version) you are used for testing of mine MAP09?

@thelamp Had similar bug when crates with red keycard wasn't lowered after pressing switch in control room.

 

And here is mine test on "GZDoom" of version 4.10.0 (since all works just fine on my end when I tried both of "DSDA-Doom" V0.25.6 and "Doom Retro" V4.9.1):

 

[LoatharMDPhD]

//lovely attention to little details. 10/10 visual design there

Edited May 1, 2023 by LoatharMDPhD

[DRON12261]

Here's what we're going to do. Everyone will think carefully this week about whether or not they are ready to switch to this format. And that goes for me, too, whether I'm ready to take on the responsibility of running the project.
 

You should think very carefully about whether you agree with every (I repeat, every) suggestion without exception described in these 2 posts:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2635947
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2636149

Likewise, you must consider (this also applies to @EPICALLL as well) that my word will be the most valuable in the project. During work, every note I make must be taken into consideration and only I will make the final decision on whether or not to allow a map or certain changes. I will be very tough on the project, but also fair enough to provide a sufficient level of comfort within the requirements of the project.
 

Why is that? Because if there are any disagreements after the transition to the new format, if someone starts to promote their own vector of development, different from the fixed, and all that stuff, then I just can't keep up with the project and I'll go burn out. I have to be sure that you are willing to go along with all these changes and conditions. Unfortunately, I had the experience of running the project, where I allowed myself to be soft in this regard, allowing a few equal leaders of the project, which equally tried to lead the project on their own, resulting in a split began, the project participants themselves began to move in different directions during the work. This did not end good. I do not want to repeat this mistake, and if there are any doubts, disagreements, etc., I would rather refrain from participating and not touch anything.
 

Please don't give an answer right now, think it over carefully. I will wait for an answer by Saturday. Of course, I will also start preparing a new topic and discord server at the same time. Everything will depend on whether 80% of those involved in the project will unconditionally(that's the key word) agree with the course or not. Just as among these 80% must be @EPICALLL, @RastaManGames, @Heretic926 and @A2Rob, as you are directly key figures in this project and have contributed to it. Otherwise I just won't risk starting it all and will leave the project, leaving everything as it is, without my intervention, but I will provide you with MAP20 before i leave.

[DoctorNuriel]

I'm stepping down from the project as atm I have too many projects on my plate, sorry.

 

Good luck and have fun, all!! <3

[EPICALLL]

1 hour ago, DoctorNuriel said:

I'm stepping down from the project as atm I have too many projects on my plate, sorry.

 

Good luck and have fun, all!! <3

No worries, there will always be someone else to fill the gap you left. Happy harvesting.

[Andrea Rovenski]

Not going to lie, I've not kept up on this thread at all. I'd still like to do the map for it, though. :) I'm okay with whoever and whatever has occurred since page 1. 

[EPICALLL]

1 hour ago, Andrea Rovenski said:

Not going to lie, I've not kept up on this thread at all. I'd still like to do the map for it, though. :) I'm okay with whoever and whatever has occurred since page 1. 

Trust me, I myself have skimmed over some of the stuff earlier on, you're not totally alone here... Even if that's terrible etiquette for leadership.

[DRON12261]

Well, I guess I can dilute all these discussions with screenshots of the progress I've made. I expected to finish this weekend, but there still wasn't as much time as I would have liked.
 

Spoiler

 

[Heretic926]

13 hours ago, RastaManGames said:

@Heretic926 Which exact source-port (name and version) you are used for testing of mine MAP09?

@thelamp Had similar bug when crates with red keycard wasn't lowered after pressing switch in control room.

 

And here is mine test on "GZDoom" of version 4.10.0 (since all works just fine on my end when I tried both of "DSDA-Doom" V0.25.6 and "Doom Retro" V4.9.1):

 

First playthrough was on DSDA-Doom, second on GZDoom. It works as intented on GZDoom, but I have a guess maybe it was because of the wrong complevel settings ('cause they do affect some actions in many source-ports). Maybe it's because of the dummy sector that was placed inside the crate (yes, I have checked the map in UDB), personally I usually put dummy sectors outside of "playable" part of the map. Still not sure what causes the softlock, but I hope this info will help.

[RastaManGames]

@Heretic926 This "dummy" sector didn't caused any problems on MAP03 & MAP04.

Since we gonna move to Boom, I am gonna "fix" this contraption using conveyor belt for 2 sets of monster closets that is located on the different heights.

[Heretic926]

1 minute ago, RastaManGames said:

@Heretic926 This "dummy" sector didn't caused any problems on MAP03 & MAP04.

Since we gonna move to Boom, I am gonna "fix" this contraption using conveyor belt for 2 sets of monster closets that is located on the different heights.

Also I would recommend to make monsters teleport when the player gets the red keycard, not when he pressed the switch that lowers it. Yes, it will be an obvious trap, however when I played the map, you could just stay in the red switch room and wait for monsters to beat each other (wasn't very fun). Heck, you can even add the archvile in the map - it's hard to make them boring.

 

Those are just my suggestions, so it's all up to you.

[RastaManGames]

@Heretic926 To be honest, battle part bothering me lesser than technical one, since I discovered that two different Doomer-comrades had similar obstacle that softlocked their walkthrough...

Edited May 1, 2023 by RastaManGames

[SteelPH]

I've watched this thread for a while and the more I think about it, the more I feel that a Scythe tribute like this would work better being more in the vein of something like Doom the Way id Did, mimicking the mapping style of the original wad, like "Scythe the Way Erik Alm Did" or something.

 

But that's just me.

Edited May 1, 2023 by SteelPH

[EPICALLL]

14 minutes ago, SteelPH said:

I've watched this thread for a while and the more I think about it, the more I feel that a Scythe tribute like this would work better being more in the vein of something like Doom the Way id Did, mimicking the mapping style of the original wad, like "Scythe the Way Erik Alm Did" or something.

 

But that's just me.

I was feeling more like an homage than a remake. A remake would be remaking the whole thing from the ground up, an homage would be more mimicking specific elements with your own sort of style.

[RonLivingston]

Deadly and the lords, When will these 2 have an outdoor Area?

[EPICALLL]

36 minutes ago, RonLivingston said:

Deadly and the lords, When will these 2 have an outdoor Area?

Never.

[Bobby :D]

5 hours ago, EPICALLL said:

I was feeling more like an homage than a remake. A remake would be remaking the whole thing from the ground up, an homage would be more mimicking specific elements with your own sort of style. 

They weren't describing remaking it though? What they described would be completely original levels with Alm's Scythe 1 style, which I personally think would be a more interesting concept for a project cause you get to use new level concepts and try to see how someone like Alm would approach it instead of just redrawing pre-exisiting maps with fervent use of the stair sector builder tool.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Bobby "J

[Heretic926]

12 hours ago, SteelPH said:

I've watched this thread for a while and the more I think about it, the more I feel that a Scythe tribute like this would work better being more in the vein of something like Doom the Way id Did, mimicking the mapping style of the original wad, like "Scythe the Way Erik Alm Did" or something.

 

But that's just me.

 

7 hours ago, Bobby "J said:

They weren't describing remaking it though? What they described would be completely original levels with Alm's Scythe 1 style, which I personally think would be a more interesting concept for a project cause you get to use new level concepts and try to see how someone like Alm would approach it instead of just redrawing pre-exisiting maps with fervent use of the stair sector builder tool.

 

I still think so too (AD_79 was the first person who proposed this idea, in this very thread), so we could do a tribute next time.

[IcarusOfDaggers]

Been following the thread but have not figured out, what this community project is about. Anyone willing to dumb it down in a recap? Thank you!

[EPICALLL]

36 minutes ago, IcarusOfDaggers said:

Been following the thread but have not figured out, what this community project is about. Anyone willing to dumb it down in a recap? Thank you!

Honestly, that's kind of half the point. (At least I think) this project encourages you to put your own spin on Erik Alm's style, which is entirely in and of itself up for interpretation.

[RastaManGames]

Okay... Few days passed by and I think that I can write up my statement and do a big step for my soul.

 

That decision was made by only me, since this community project has no sharp & solid vision of itself.

There is still no particular carcass that gonna re-preasent the inner soul of what it gonna be: A slight re-master or big re-make.

After all, I have a distant feeling that even our curator (@EPICALLL) has no faith in this event at the first place.

 

I am not wish to make something really astonishing like full-pledged re-make made with Boom map format, new textures & etc., like @DRON12261.

And I have a fear that I can't make it out with him, since our visions (or visible tasks) is really different.

Personally, I only wanting to make a shy re-master of all Erik Alm's maps with big changes in layout only when I am gonna be very un-pleased by original (like MAP09, as example).

 

With this, I want to drop off from this community project and grab all of my maps from it to re-use it later.

They gonna be in my personal project that I am gonna develop at the free time as my small & humble hobby, so maybe someday it gonna be released.

Really sorry about that, but I do not want for these maps to be along other maps from mappers that gonna have their own & unmatched to mine vision of this community project.

 

TL;DR: I am gonna withdraw from this community project and start development of my own project which gonna represent my vision of a faithful remaster of original "Scythe" using only mine maps, including already made ones.

Edited May 3, 2023 by RastaManGames

[DRON12261]

Well, actually, that's enough. 
 

I'm quitting the project and freeing up my slot.
 

And I also strongly insist that the OP and the Project Title remove all references to it being a remake (this also applies to the "Resharpened" subtitle, replace it with "How id did it" or "The way we remember it" or something like that, but not "Resharpened", "Reforged", "Remake" and all that stuff, let @RastaManGames have that subtitle.). If it's not a remake, there's no need to mislead people.
 

Honestly, I stopped believing this project could do anything, it seems like no one knows what it's doing here. And I don't see the point in trying to help the project get back on track anymore. But if you do continue, please do better than "TNT: The Way We Remember It" (it was awful).

[IcarusOfDaggers]

15 hours ago, EPICALLL said:

Honestly, that's kind of half the point. (At least I think) this project encourages you to put your own spin on Erik Alm's style, which is entirely in and of itself up for interpretation.

 

Yet your previous posts, including original, indicate a very strong adherence to the original. I am just trying to plan my next video releases, as scythe is on my to play list.

[Heretic926]

Well, what can I say. This whole idea seems somewhat good on paper, but without proper management and execution nothing will come out of it. Now it's obvious this project is falling apart, so I have no reason to continue participating in.

 

I'm still thinking about what @General Roasterock said:

On 4/12/2023 at 9:15 PM, General Roasterock said:

If you're really looking to make a Scythe inspired project, I don't believe there's a "sickle.wad" on idgames yet. The name is tangential to farming tools, it's less than eight characters long, and it sets out the set as more than just "making the whole thing again"

 

Parroting everyone here, I do think it would be far more interesting to have guidelines as to what Erik did that made Scythe great, require mappers to work within THOSE constraints instead of simply copying landmarks from each of the maps, and then separate them visually with the episode cutoffs. As much as I love Scythe, restricting people to make them use the music if they want to share a title is automatically knocking the wind out of the level. 

THIS could actually work. A new completely original set of maps, mimicking Erik Alm's mapping style and combat. A proper tribute to both Scythe and Scythe 2, not just a "rehash with modernized looks", which was the goal stated in OP. If this idea will catch someone's attention, I will be happy to join.

 

@EPICALLL, with all due respect, I think you were not sure yourself what you're actually trying to do with this CP. I'm dropping off too, but I'll keep my submitted map public for everyone to check out.

 

^{(my god, it's like Scythe X situation all over again, except worse)}

[RichardDS90]

@Heretic926 Scythe X situation? What happened there?

[EPICALLL]

I guess I'll let this one sit here, then.

Yeah, this project, while more controlled than it was, is still kind of a directionless mess, and I feel that maybe just maybe it could stay together given the right people. I wish all the members who have/are/had participated in this project farewell, and I thank you for at the very least trying to make what is clearly a dead end project work. However, with that being said, I won't close the project... I feel like this project, despite running out of steam, might still have some materials I can salvage from it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this project isn't really going anywhere, however it is definitely going to travel far slower from here on out.

[DRON12261]

1 hour ago, EPICALLL said:

I guess I'll let this one sit here, then.

Yeah, this project, while more controlled than it was, is still kind of a directionless mess, and I feel that maybe just maybe it could stay together given the right people. I wish all the members who have/are/had participated in this project farewell, and I thank you for at the very least trying to make what is clearly a dead end project work. However, with that being said, I won't close the project... I feel like this project, despite running out of steam, might still have some materials I can salvage from it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this project isn't really going anywhere, however it is definitely going to travel far slower from here on out.

 

I think you better close this project and start a new one, because this project has already got a kind of "bad reputation" and some people are unlikely to come here.

Try for that time to think hard about a new project, which will not be based on some other project, for, as I said, it will automatically impose on you a number of obligations and expectations. Take some theme, challange, setting and take it as a key element of the project (a good example, this is Blocked-Out, where you had to use only special texture pack, or 666crets, where the trick projects, this progression through the secrets).

Write down all the requirements clearly, without any vague wording, so that everything is unambiguous. And as an example, attach one or two ready-made maps (you can ask a familiar mapper to participate in this). In fact, an example of some work will better tell you what the project is all about, while a verbal formulation will only clarify it all.

And also promote and hold your vision for the project, and keep a close eye on everything that happens within it.

Good luck.

Edited May 3, 2023 by DRON12261

[EPICALLL]

33 minutes ago, DRON12261 said:

 

I think you better close this project and start a new one, because this project has already got a kind of "bad reputation" and some people are unlikely to come here.

Try for that time to think hard about a new project, which will not be based on some other project, for, as I said, it will automatically impose on you a number of obligations and expectations. Take some theme, challange, setting and take it as a key element of the project (a good example, this is Blocked-Out, where you had to use only special texture pack, or 666crets, where the trick projects, this progression through the secrets).

Write down all the requirements clearly, without any vague wording, so that everything is unambiguous. And as an example, attach one or two ready-made maps (you can ask a familiar mapper to participate in this). In fact, an example of some work will better tell you what the project is all about, while a verbal formulation will only clarify it all.

And also promote and hold your vision for the project, and keep a close eye on everything that happens within it.

Good luck.

The more I think about it... Yeah, you're right. Like heretic said, AD_79 saw the storm and bunkered in. A2Rob said to me he has an idea, so if it works... This project stays, and if not, my seat is up for grabs.

[A2Rob]

I've been OK'd to help revamp this project into something a little more coherent. New thread'll be going up sometime in the coming weeks. Stay tuned.