Question to mappers: Do you sketch your maps or make them up on the fly?

[Kwisior]

I recently started wondering about whether or not I should draw my map layouts or not. That got me curious enough to ask you guys this. Is there a more "correct" way out of the two? What do YOU choose?

[Sesamia]

Most of the time I make maps without a plan.  Sometimes I'll start with a single room/encounter in mind, or a general idea with no precise plan for executing it.  I don't necessarily think that's the best way to design levels, but it's what I like to do.

[DoktorDeth]

Honestly, I've drawn out particular shapes or set pieces to get ideas going, but then other times, I doodle without a plan and see how I can connect other parts together. But I've drawn out stuff more than I've done it without a plan, so maybe try drawing things first and gradually get into doing it the other way, if that makes any sense. I'd suggest using an art program like paint.net so that you can expand the drawings accordingly. But of course, this is just a suggestion. There is no right or wrong way to make or design maps.

Edited April 11, 2023 by GreenSlayer

[Sammy J]

I don't see a correct way to design maps, everybody does their own thing & that's what makes it awesome in my opinion. I've always built in a progressing "story mode" style. If you're comfortable with your mapping software & you have a good vision of what you're trying to create, I don't think sketching is necessary. But it would be useful if you have a complex map with a lot of mechanics, or if you have a large project with a story to tell.

[skillsaw]

There's no one right way. For me, I don't sketch any specific layout details ahead of time, but I don't work entirely on-the-fly, either. I like to set small milestones by placing objectives for the player, so in practice I tend to work backwards a lot -- i.e., once I have the first area of my map started, I'll place an objective and a solution (e.g. a key on an overlook, and a locked door below that you can drop to after grabbing the key) and then do the work to connect the map so that the solution can be reached. I find that by doing this I can organically get map flow that reuses areas while approaching them from different directions. The hardest part for me -- by far -- is looking at the blank slate before I start and trying to figure out what to do, but once I've started with a few random shapes, I can usually see where objectives should be placed and determine how I want t connect them fairly quickly.

 

Non layout stuff (like, the theme or visual style of the map, and maybe some set piece ideas or gimmicks I want to play with) I usually have at least somewhat in mind before I start.

[real slush59134]

I just start and when I get an idea, I make a few sections fast and then I repeat thinking about it for a few days again.

[bofu]

I've sketched out a few maps before, but they rarely ever end up sticking to the plan. A few rooms or general ideas might escape unscathed, but it's usually for the best that they don't end up looking anything like what the original sketches looked like.

[indigotyrian]

I'm very much a "gardener" type of creator. I tend to start at a certain point (sometimes the beginning, sometimes not) and work from there, adding onto things and working forwards/backwards as necessary until the whole level's done. I'll have a rough idea of what I want but I don't really plan things out. For this reason I tend to be a pretty slow mapper but I like to think my work comes out pretty nice and polished.

[Misty]

I go on the fly and see where imagination takes me. I tried to sketch, but I realised that I deviate from it too much, so decided to not use it. I plan routes, gameplay and such tho, but rest of my levels are going "wow, this might look good, oh, maybe this one area!". There are no right or wrong methods to achieve what you want in level as long as you feel confident in your skills. 

[Fiber Wire]

I have done both. If I don’t have time to actually work on a map then I usually can at least access my pen and small notepad I bring anywhere I go and start there. Then I’ll take what I have to the computer when I have time. Usually, the end result turns out a lot different from the drawing. So that’s why more often than not, I just start from scratch anyhow and have found myself using the pen and paper less and less as time went on. 

[PeterMoro]

I always make sketches first. 

[kwc]

A bit of everything. However there is always a spark, be it a sketch, diagram, or a collection of reference.
I've drawn maps out entirely on grid paper, and while I do that less and less, I don't discourage it. I just find it's important to let go of the initial plans you make, as they are likely to change, especially if you start drawing the levels boundaries before making the map. (However, making a map on grid paper is a super fast way to get a basic Start-Exit layout, is super iterative, and also helps keep the map's scope in check)
I've moved on to a mix of reference images and bubble diagrams, maybe some parti diagrams if I'm feeling particularly artsy-fartsy.              

 

Here's an example from something I've been working on for the past couple months:

Spoiler

I typically start by gathering reference images based on the themes I am looking to capture, I try and tessellate everything I do, so this turns into 3 "design theme pillars":


 

 

From there, I try and work out a general rational layout for the level, either plotting out the beats in which i want the player to play, or the general layout. I try and keep this as simple as possible so I don't get attached to any potentially poor decisions:

 

Additionally, if I'm stuck on a specific area, I may plot out the general shapes on grid paper:

 

However these layouts quickly become obsolete as I move into the editor and things change with testing:

Here is my WIP map right now, the paper plot-out became that base on the top left. You can kinda-sorta make out the general shape of the original bubble diagram. 

 

All-in-all, I would recommend planning ahead on a map design at least a little bit, at the very least it is a springboard for your creativity. However, improvising always exists and in some cases can encompass a whole map or entire project! Up to you, of course.

Edited April 11, 2023 by kwc

[Steve D]

This echoes the eternal debate in the world of writing between Outliners and Pantsers. Outliners, not surprisingly, make outlines of the story they plan to write. These outlines can be anything from a rough sketch to pages long documents detailing every major event in the story. By contrast, Pantsers get an idea, or feel a mood, and begin writing immediately, therefore they "fly by the seat of their pants." I'm a pantser myself, but I would never tell anyone they should follow my course. Do whatever is most comfortable and natural to you.

[Arrowhead]

98% - Zero planning, if I'm being 100% honest. I usually just start doing something, and then things just progress once the ball starts moving. I kind of just mess around w/ stuff until it works.

 

2% - I've drawn something out.

 

I don't think either way is superior to the other, this is just my experience.

 

26 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I'm a pantser myself, but I would never tell anyone they should follow my course. Do whatever is most comfortable and natural to you.

Totally agree w/ you there, as a fellow 'pantser' (lol never heard that term before)

[Capellan]

In 1995, I planned maps on grid paper before firing up DETH.

 

These days, I may sketch specific segments of a map - generally if inspiration strikes while I don't have time/opportunity to fire up DB2 - but I tend to do a lot more "make it up as I go".

 

 

[galileo31dos01]

5 hours ago, Kwisior said:

What do YOU choose?

 

I've made sketches before, it's quite helpful if you also got clear, non-intrusive mental images of the majority and most importantly connections between those images and ideas, then you round up details on the fly more or less. Pretty sure I kept the one for Hellevator m24 in my notebook, possibly among other rough scribbles that never materialized.

 

It's also easier if the map in question is planned to fit within the scale of the paper, but that hasn't stopped me from gluing various pieces so there's more blank space to go wild... I just need to not let them end up a waste of paper lol.

 

Nowadays I don't have the energy to draw stuff and rather prefer to make maps by going with the flow. I do require a good comprehensive picture of what I'm about to do. That generally includes a lot of doubting and whatnot.... the price of getting creative!

[The BMFG]

ive always been kind of a think up of shit as ya go along type guy. it works

[xScavengerWolfx]

For me it's mostly i make it as i go. May not be the pretties maps but i have fun screwing around with the editor

 

[Bri]

I usually play around with textures and working on a start room, get the look of it down, then go on from there. Then I'll be thinking of connectivity and where to place keys and good spots for monsters. Completely on the fly, I guess, but there still is some sort of method during the process to how it unfolds.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bri

[Wavy]

I usually make it up as I go but I really should not do that. I do keep mental notes before/during mapping on how I want the map to progress, how rooms should look, and how combat encounters should be but that's the most I'll go.

[RHhe82]

I’m no expert on subject, I have only made a few maps, many of them lost already… but so far I’ve fared better without sketches, and just make it up as I go. I think Skillsaw put it closest to how I operate. I need a starting place and at least a rough, hazy idea of the goal, preferably something put in place, and then I can more easily do the stuff in between.

 

The hardest part for me is to get the first areas. After they are done, I usually can make it to some sort of finish line.

 

I tried sketching once or twice, because some people seem to thrive on them. I remember getting one room to one of my maps (in some community project that’s apparently fizzled out) thru a sketch, and that room halted the process for me, and the only solution was to scrap that area and start over from there by some gut-felt doodling.

[The_SloVinator]

I sketch them first to get the general idea of the layout & then put it in the builder. Most of the time, things do change in the builder, if I have a better idea for a part of the layout. It does help me a lot.

[prfunky]

Way back when the mapping seemed like such a chore, I started with the old pencil and quadrille paper. Of course,

I was dealing with DoomCAD for Windows 3.1 which ate my work constantly. I actually wrote a DOS batch file that

would copy my file first before it started the DoomCAD program. Then, DoomBuilder was invented which makes its

own backups, a rotation of 3 if I recall correctly. Got to use one of them today too! Windows XP blue screens every

now and then when either I go to save the map or I hit the test button which does a build of a temp file which gets

sent to the testing program (Zandronum 3.0 in this case). Sometimes, after the mandatory Windows reboot the file

STILL gets eaten (happened today!). The file is there but when I go to open the map in DoomBuilder, there are

NO MAPS!

 

Anyhow, pencil and paper planning hasn't happened for nearly two decades now. I do however start with a pretty big

idea in my head of what I want a map to be when I begin the editing process. It still takes me forever to "get it all out"

into something that roughly resembles what I imagined in the first place. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on

bird's eye/worm's eye, I continue modifying the original idea as I go along because the mind just keeps having those

"Eureka!" moments or "I wonder if I did..." blank...

 

I guess that means the answer to the question is kindof "both". I love people who answer either/or questions with

YES!

 

 

[Ludi]

I have a general idea of the visuals and central gimmick, and then I fuck around and find out until I get something I like

[Tangra]

I map almost everything on the fly, at least thus far. In fact the current map i'm working on is taking so long, that i'm accidentally comming up with ideas for future maps. Overall, the only plan i had when i started my project, was to make 3 episodes as follows: sci-fi tech base, medieval/ancient and hell/mythological.

 

For the last map that i've posted, i had no idea what i'll end up with before i started drawing (directly in the editor, not on paper). I thought to myself, "hm, the last two maps started in the interiors of tech facilities and ended outside, so let's start outside this time but in a rocky terrain". So i ended up making a narrow canyon for the opening. Okay, then what? I then came up with an idea of trasitioning the canyon into a big courtyard that leads to the entrance of a big facility. At this point i didn't know what i'll do on the inside of the building, but once i came up with the theme for it, it all came together. I decided to make an indimidating industrial structure, and stopped myself on the idea of a nuclear power plant with a big reactor in the center, enclosed by a circular metal chamber. That champer i decided will be the structure that divides the interor in two separate areas, with the goal being to find a way to get into the second area where the climax of the map will take place before you reveal the exit. Everything came into place naturally after that, as i tried to use all the available space to and create interesting interior layouts nad combat scenarios, at least to the best of my ability. At the end i added some power lines and giant transformers to form a power grid as a background view out of bound. The rest was endless testing and tweaks in my goal to improve the combat as much as possible.

 

Speaking of combat, that for me is the biggest challenge in mapping. I guess my problem is that i build the maps first and then think of what to do with the combat encounters, it's rare for me to come up with a set piece and shape the room around it. Sure, it's easy to just put some monsters all over the place in a semi-random fashion, and sometimes you might even end up with something good by accident by doing it, but that doesn't work for me. After i finish a map, i will make dozens if not hundreds of changes to monster placements, closets and traps, until i'm happy with the end result. And the only way to be sure, is to play them myself (a lot) and then watch other players play them, or get written feedback. The point is, it's really hard to pre-plan everything and strike lightning in a bottle, because playtestng and post-production are just as important to the design. If you're having hard time coming up with ideas, just make whatever comes to your mind, like everything, even if you're not happy with the end result, you can always revisit and reshape your map until you have something that you're proud of. I've made my first 4 maps in 20 days, and then spent the next two months in improving and redesigning them until i feelt ready to post them here, and since then i made numerous additional changes based on the feedback i got here.

 

One more thing, never get frustrated if you can't come up with ideas on the spot, just take your time with your projects. Adding pressure on yourself to work and release maps fast can be counterproductive. If you can't come up with anything new today, then don't, leave it for tomorrow, the day after, or the next week.

[slowfade]

I make these small, incomprehensible stamp-sized sketches of badly drawn (can't draw better) shapes with helpful texts like "r2 rises while player [incomphrehensible words] r1". Your guess is as good as mine as to what r1 and r2 stand for, probably rooms in this case. I need to remember the full idea of the sketch or it becomes completely useless, and it should be the other way around, the sketch helping to recover the memory. I always hope I could sketch more and better - my ideal would be like creating a large architecture student's sketchbook with watercolor drawings of central areas and gimmicks, but that's a long way off as I can't draw a 3d cube properly, and I'm too miserly with paper.

 

So yeah, essentially I make things up room by room as I go but I always wish I had detailed plans and sketches that stretched the entire map, its themes, objectives, connections of areas... But I simply don't know what those are most of them are until the map is done.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I don't sketch anything but I brainstorm a lot before starting. Having a clear idea for what I want the map to be beforehand is super important for me. But then I start drawing organic shapes, and connecting them together, raising and lowering, and it sort of develops itself from there. 

[Kinetic]

have thought about sketching, but am too lazy, luckily a lot of map shapes and ideas stick in my head well

[reaction]

I've done both a fair amount (I should find the old sketches. We need a map sketch thread!) and they both work once I get into the flow. So then, for me, it's about knowing when to use each method - sketching layouts fully or doing it on the fly. Sketching has been useful for me when I want to make a very specific kind of map. Either with a large set piece(s) or a specific flow.

 

I prefer mapping organically with a general idea in mind to start which very often ends up changing i.e (mountain mine - big craggy cliffs, lots of imps on ledges - rocket?, cramped mines - dark with specters,linear winding in and out of mine, 2 key exit).

[msx2plus]

any/all approaches work for me. i've had equal success:

• blocking out an area that's fun to run around in and move through (this is the closest to sketching that i get)
• drawing absurd shapes and finding ways to fit rooms and passages into them
• starting with a single room and detailing it, using that as a base for the rest of the map
• mix of all of the above and finding ways to weave it all into one end product

i rarely start with "i want to make [X] kind of map" though. that almost never inspires.