Question to mappers: Do you sketch your maps or make them up on the fly?

[Egg Boy]

I just start drawing pretty much, I found very little success trying to draw maps up prior to making them. I made Fuckin Crates from Squonker 3, and Waterlogged from Mayan Reynolds using this method, the results are maps I don't particularly care for.

[pcorf]

I make them on the fly often imagining areas of the layout (especially with 2022ado) but sometimes sketch areas.

[Somniac]

If I could draw to save my life, I'd probably try drawing maps on paper first as it seems like a really good approach. But as people have said, whatever works for you is best (sometimes that isn't static). One thing I tried recently and quite enjoyed was building a map from the exit room backwards. Usually I just go with the flow, and keeping notes like "try doing X in Y room" helps with having something to come back to.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Somniac

[aRottenKomquat]

Most of the time, I just start drawing stuff up in UDB and see what happens. Usually, some kind of cohesive theme emerges which I can draw on to make the rest of the level feel similar. Otherwise, I really don't think about it that much.

 

Sometimes I have a specific encounter or landmark in mind, for example "This map needs a big canyon with a giant 3D bridge thing", or "This map on a space station is going to have a big outdoor storage area that's all hurt floor because it's in the vacuum of space." But that's actually kind of rare in my mapping.

[Clippy]

I never seem to do that. I just get vague ideas in my head and get right to work. I'm probably in the minority with that. Lol

[RDETalus]

I don't draw layouts. I actually just write down the layout (using words) instead.

 

I'm not sure why I do it this way. I think it's because it's actually faster for me to edit a layout with a word editor. If I was drawing layouts, it would be a pain in the ass for me to erase and re-draw, either with pencil + paper or on computer.

Having the layout in words is also less creatively restricting. The text layout is an amorphous shape you can push and pull, whereas if you were looking at a drawing layout, it's kind of stuck and permanent.

Edited April 11, 2023 by RDETalus

[Kwisior]

Thank you for all the replies! I'll take them into account.

There's another question I forgot to ask in the OP: Is one approach usually better for new mappers like myself? (I'm currently making my first project)

Edited April 11, 2023 by Kwisior

[aRottenKomquat]

11 minutes ago, Kwisior said:

Thank you for all the replies! I'll take them into account.

There's another question I forgot to ask in the OP: Is one approach usually better for new mappers like myself? (I'm currently making my first project)

 

Hard to say. You need to find what works for you, and realize that a lot of answers or advice in this thread may or may not help you. Also don't let yourself get frustrated if you take an approach and it doesn't seem to work for you.

 

Call me a nerd, but this question really comes down to your personality type. One of the personality axes in the Myer-Briggs personality indicators is sensing vs intuition. Sensing individuals tend to be explicitly categorical, analytical, and planning, making lots of careful, conscious decisions to guide what they're doing. Whereas intuitive individuals tend to function on an implicit or subconscious level, operating on an internalized and implicit ruleset, doing what 'feels' right without necessarily knowing how or why. Neither way is better than the other. Just different brains wired differently. For example, I am more on the intuitive side of the axis than sensing, so while I can be analytical and planning in my approaches, it's often less effective--but not always.

Edited April 11, 2023 by aRottenKomquat

[Kwisior]

13 minutes ago, aRottenKomquat said:

 

Call me a nerd, but this question really comes down to your personality type. One of the personality axes in the Myer-Briggs personality indicators is sensing vs intuition. Sensing individuals tend to be explicitly categorical, analytical, and planning, making lots of careful, conscious decisions to guide what they're doing. Whereas intuitive individuals tend to function on an implicit or subconscious level, operating on an internalized and implicit ruleset, doing what 'feels' right without necessarily knowing how or why. Neither way is better than the other. Just different brains wired differently. For example, I am more on the intuitive side of the axis than sensing, so while I can be analytical and planning in my approaches, it's often less effective--but not always.

Well I've been making my first map for like 5 days and made 5 rooms so maybe I'm more on the "sensing" side.

 

Or I'm just slow.

[Amiga Angel]

sometimes I just start drawing and see where it takes me and other times I try to "draw" a little "in my mind" .. before actually drawing the room or rooms that I was planning

[Biz!]

I do my maps on the fly, but I usually set my barriers before, usually a multiple of 1024.

[kwc]

1 hour ago, Kwisior said:

There's another question I forgot to ask in the OP: Is one approach usually better for new mappers like myself? (I'm currently making my first project)

As you may have gathered from the variety of prior responses, there is no one-size-fits-all workflow for beginners, and I’d argue you will receive a comparable variety of response to this question as well.

 

However, since you’re asking. I’d suggest the fallback go-to response and just “go map”. Do what interests you and give yourself all the opportunity to learn the tools. Set small goals.
If you feel like things are going slow, one piece of advice I hear often from mappers is to make sure your map is playable and beatable (there is an player start and a reachable exit) before going in and tinkering with form and height and monster placement. Getting your map to be functional before anything else is A1 in pretty much all Level Design stuff. From here you can bounce around your map designing the parts between the start and exit and you’ll probably have a better time keeping your map to a reasonable size. Work smarter not harder.
 

Continue gathering tips and doing research on your own as well! Enjoy making things up as you go and be critical as to what processes work for you. Have fun :)

Also, DoomKid has some cool tips regarding Doom LD on YouTube, it’s worth a watch.

Edited April 11, 2023 by kwc

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

1 hour ago, Kwisior said:

Thank you for all the replies! I'll take them into account.

There's another question I forgot to ask in the OP: Is one approach usually better for new mappers like myself? (I'm currently making my first project)

I think you best just play around and see what suits you. And your design approach is likely to eventually change with experience, anyway. So don't worry about it, nothing's set in stone. 

[Doomkid]

I usually just have a vague theme and maybe a particular visual setpiece or two in mind before I get to work on any given map, or sometimes those ideas might form during the preliminary stages of mapping.

 

I prefer to have a dehacked resource basically finalized and some custom textures preferably too. It feels like it gives me a guiding light to work towards and a framework to design within.

 

If I have no particular idea in mind and no custom resources and I just sit down and let shapes hit me, usually a standard Doom map that's fun but not amazing is what comes out. Which is okay, but there's plenty of those in the world already, so I prefer to work on stuff with a little more of its own identity, even if just through some visual or behavioral quirks.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Chaos in Bloom was sketched on paper and then built more or less according to the plan, and I think to a degree that may have made it less "gridbound" than some of my other maps since I had drawn out some wacky pentagons and such.  Pretty much all my other maps tended to grow out of laying out a concept room or two in the editor and working from there.

[rouge_means_red]

I write my map first, and then I make a sketch

Steve Lee has a cool video on that: 

Spoiler

 

[OceanMadman]

Sometimes I make sketches when I'm in school or I don't have my computer near me. Most times I get pleased with the final result because it ends up being pretty different to my usual style. And when I don't make sketches I just improvise, and when I run out of ideas while improvising I start drawing random stuff and then make it look and feel better, which I think actually works pretty well with the more surreal nature of most of my recent maps.

[MFG38]

Closest thing to sketching in my case would probably be collecting/compiling resources - that often gives me a general idea as to the aesthetic/vibe I want to go for. Other than that, I plan next to nothing in advance - I just slap lines down and see what comes out.

[Klear]

I like to think that I'm working on two maps each time - one is the real one in UDB and the other is the idea I see with my mind's eye. Both of them start out unfinished and in theory I'm trying to make the first one get as close to the second one, but in reality it's more about the two maps meeting somewhere in the middle. Plans change, new ideas come up, and I certainly haven't gotten to the point where I could playtest in my head, so this is what I'm doing.

 

Haven't tried making a sketch first, but I want to try it at some point. Right now my maps are growing kinda organically and it can get out of control at some points. Some ideas I have will need some planning ahead.

[Midway64]

9 hours ago, Ludi said:

I have a general idea of the visuals and central gimmick, and then I fuck around and find out until I get something I like

That's literally how I do it (starting out, but I think you know what I mean) when making a map.

Get a brilliant (maybe a little bit too ambitious) idea and fuck around in Eureka till I manage to do ONLY ONE PART of my idea.

[TheMightyWhoosh]

99% on the fly. If I was to draw out a basic sketch of a map, it would change beyond recognition in the editor rather quickly. 
 

The majority of good ideas that end up in my maps are either from tinkering or from a happy mistake! 

[Woody101]

I didn't sketch out when I first started but as my maps got more complex and larger, I now always sketch it out first - like others have said, then I do deviate when building often to make small changes/enhance 

[Deadwing]

I do draw before a few sketches before opening Doom Builder, but the final map is usually a bit different from what I originally drawed lol

It works better for me if I draw without worring too much about scale and enemy placement and focus in a vague layout with an overall idea of where is the beginning, the end, and some locked doors/areas. Then afterwards I can start adapting things when mapping in Doom Builder.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Deadwing

[Stabbey]

It's a mix. I sketch some things if I have ideas, but I usually don't sketch everything out, and I end up having to refine the shapes after actual gameplay testing.

[rita remton]

my somewhat amateurish approach:

1. on paper, i first draw a diagram with writing in bubbles and with arrows, representing the different zones in the map and how the player generally move from one zone to the other. this outlines the general mapflow of the map.
2. still on paper, i then roughly draft one of the map zones based on the mapflow diagram.
3. in the map editor, i then draw the map zone, populate the zone with monsters+pickups, then test the gameplay.
4. i repeat [step 2] to [step 3] for all the other zones in the map till map is finished.

please do take with a truckload of salt though. i'm still very new to mapping. thanks :)

Edited April 11, 2023 by rita remton

[cannonball]

Most of my maps stem from ideas in my head that never touch the paper. The one exception is one recent map where a portion was drawn by my wife that became the latter portion of Map10 of this;

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by cannonball

[Death Bear]

Even when I'm not mapping in editor, I'm mapping. I'm always coming up with ideas...some I write down, some I draw. And I draw a LOT. But not all maps I make are drawn first. Some I see in my head and go straight to the editor. Some I just start throwing down lines in editor and see what happens. Some I completely start with the sketch...some I stick to...and some I break from the sketch. Some sketches are just geometry...some have added detail and notes for texturing and gameplay and progression...some contain little sketched "scenes" that I see in my head on how it'd look in-game. Many (but not all) of my speedmaps are made on-the-fly, so little forethought goes into them. Some are made by forcing myself through block, some are made when inspiration strikes. This is how my artistic workflow for my actual art works...it's erratic and flexible, tempered often with a little more rigidity and intentionality.

TL;DR. Yes. All the things. There's no wrong way to eat a Reese's. There's no one right way, perhaps. Figure out what works best for you! And don't be afraid to try something different.

[Helm]

I sketch a lot, not all of it makes it into a map, and even if it does it rarely ends up looking like a sketch. I went through some of my notes and took some photos of how they look. I believe they help me on an aspirational level if not with actual mapping, insofar that something that's worth a sketch can stay up in memory, referenced again the next day, it is at least 'an idea in trial'. A lot of the rest I don't jot down I tend to forget because my brain is a sieve. 
 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Helm

[eltiolavara9]

i just start making shit with 0 planning and hope to god that it works

[msx2plus]

10 minutes ago, eltiolavara9 said:

i just start making shit with 0 planning and hope to god that it works

i can tell (i mean this very very positively lol)