[MBF21] What Lies Beneath - 11 maps episode from some of the Hellevator/Skulltiverse/Solar Struggle contributors (Official Idgame release)

[ViolentBeetle]

Oh yes, turned out I'm stupid and misremembered argument for complevel as -cl

I see it now. Guess I can write MAPINFO, but I hate MAPINFO because I hate testing in gzDoom because it lags for me and last time I tried doing MAPINFO it just kept breaking non-stop.

[Captain Toenail]

Yeah I've just stuck the compat mode to default from now on.

 

I'm at map05 now, noticed a few things in the previous map (Loved the giant drill that was really cool)

 

• I am able to walk through the 32 unit high barriers like the railings and forcefields which I don't think is intended
• Are the energy orbs purely decorative or are they an enemy? - they just sit still in GZDoom.

 

 

[ViolentBeetle]

9 minutes ago, Captain Toenail said:

• I am able to walk through the 32 unit high barriers like the railings and forcefields which I don't think is intended 
• Are the energy orbs purely decorative or are they an enemy? - they just sit still in GZDoom.

You might have MBF21 functions disabled in compat. For some reason it seems to very commonplace. And I don't think it's even covered by the wiki on compat parameters, at least last time I checked it wasn't. Those railings are set to block player only, the new property introduced in MBF21 format.

Yes, those orbs are just decorations. They were meant to be ambient energy or something, illuminating natural areas where no good reason to have light.

Edited May 4, 2023 by ViolentBeetle

[DFF]

1 hour ago, ViolentBeetle said:

You might have MBF21 functions disabled in compat. For some reason it seems to very commonplace. And I don't think it's even covered by the wiki on compat parameters, at least last time I checked it wasn't. Those railings are set to block player only, the new property introduced in MBF21 format.

Yes, those orbs are just decorations. They were meant to be ambient energy or something, illuminating natural areas where no good reason to have light.

 

I do find it strange aswell so many are able to pass through the "block player" lines, since both DSDA and GZDoom both properly set the correct compat setting for me. In testing I never ran into this issue. Since it's a compat issue and mostly integral to the map function I'd hope to cover it in a txt file or a WAD hard setting if possible.

 

If it ends up being too much of a hassle or too many people don't have the right settings, I could modify them to be scrolling one way sectors instead à La Eviternity Map15 but I'd rather not.

[ViolentBeetle]

2 minutes ago, DFF said:

 

I do find it strange aswell so many are able to pass through the "block player" lines, since both DSDA and GZDoom both properly set the correct compat setting for me. In testing I never ran into this issue. Since it's a compat issue and mostly integral to the map function I'd hope to cover it in a txt file or a WAD hard setting if possible.

 

If it ends up being too much of a hassle or too many people don't have the right settings, I could modify them to be scrolling one way sectors instead à La Eviternity Map15 but I'd rather not.

I'll try to force compatibility for gzDoom, not sure what's going on with DSDA but probably similar. Most problems come in gzDoom, I think.

[dac]

In some twisted way I'm glad I wasn't the only one to moan about GZ's borked compatibility 😅

Edited May 4, 2023 by dac

[nobleflame]

Just finished all maps single-segment, UV MAX (excluding items). This is wad of the year for me so far. The music, atmosphere, MBF elements and level design are all top tier. 

 

The last level definitely gave me some trouble in that it was long and there were a lot of areas you could screw up. I particularly liked the final fight. Took me around 45 minutes to finish map 11. 

 

Thanks for the effort and time that went into creating this. Excellent stuff!

[Shawny]

2 hours ago, nobleflame said:

The last level definitely gave me some trouble in that it was long and there were a lot of areas you could screw up. I particularly liked the final fight. Took me around 45 minutes to finish map 11.  

 

Yeah, some cutting and adjusting of the map should have been done while in dev, but I couldn´t help myself.

Described by that one from Jurassic park... Scientists something should/shouldn´t would/wouldn´t something.

The SMM fight in perticular should have been havled, but I kinda realized it too late and just kept it as it is.
That being said 45 minutes is a pretty good time considering there are several timed fights.

Thank you for playing and enjoying the wad. I am sure fellow mappers feel the same.

[nobleflame]

4 hours ago, Shawny said:

 

Yeah, some cutting and adjusting of the map should have been done while in dev, but I couldn´t help myself.

Described by that one from Jurassic park... Scientists something should/shouldn´t would/wouldn´t something.

The SMM fight in perticular should have been havled, but I kinda realized it too late and just kept it as it is.
That being said 45 minutes is a pretty good time considering there are several timed fights.

Thank you for playing and enjoying the wad. I am sure fellow mappers feel the same.

 

I enjoyed it a lot but if I had any criticisms it would be the following:

 

1) the beginning dragged a bit as I felt I was shot-gunning imps, SSGing Hell Knights / Cacos quite a bit and in large spaces - not sure how to mitigate this though.

2) a small thing, but the fight with the flashing, dropping platforms and switches was annoying in that the layout of the platforms was off centre from the opening you run through to get into the area. A few times I ran through the centre of the opening and fell directly into the toxic blood, effectively ending my run there (or taking a massive amount of health). Not sure I'm explaining that correctly, but I felt that there should be a platform directly under the centre of the door you go through to get into the area. 

 

Other than that, I really enjoyed it. The timed fights and teleporting resources a were great touch and I enjoyed the aesthetics of the map. 

[Shawny]

1 hour ago, nobleflame said:

1) the beginning dragged a bit as I felt I was shot-gunning imps, SSGing Hell Knights / Cacos quite a bit and in large spaces - not sure how to mitigate this though.

I, personally, like slower starts and have no great regrets about this. It is a bit weird to have a start like that after MAP10, will say that, but I designed the map to be "like a small episode of it´s own" - to build map slowly from killing cannon fodder to more chaotic fights.

Not saying this design philosophy is good (or bad), just expressing why it is done like that.
Plus, there are 2 secret rocket launchers (one on each side) early that mitigate this to an extent.
(One of which will be hinted a bit more in future patch.)
So technically once you know where they are the early stage pacing should be less of an issue.
At least from what I tested, it is. Again, your experience may vary depending on your preference in maps/combat.

 

1 hour ago, nobleflame said:

2) a small thing, but the fight with the flashing, dropping platforms and switches was annoying in that the layout of the platforms was off centre from the opening you run through to get into the area. A few times I ran through the centre of the opening and fell directly into the toxic blood, effectively ending my run there (or taking a massive amount of health). Not sure I'm explaining that correctly, but I felt that there should be a platform directly under the centre of the door you go through to get into the area. 

I know exactly what you mean. I have seen people fall into the blood with no way out, and yes, it is one of the things I have been "monitoring".
I thinking about just separating the "big door" into 2 smaller ones so that player will land on one of the platforms more/almost reliably.
It may not be the best solution, but it is easy to implement and have a good balance between being functional and not being/looking too janky.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Shawny

[Not Jabba]

59 minutes ago, Shawny said:

I, personally, like slower starts and have no great regrets about this. It is a bit weird to have a start like that after MAP10, will say that, but I designed the map to be "like a small episode of it´s own" - to build map slowly from killing cannon fodder to more chaotic fights.

Just throwing in my vote to agree with this. I played on HMP rather than UV, but appreciated that there's both tough and casual fighting throughout the set, with a willingness to take the casual stuff seriously. I like that there's a slow buildup overall from map 01, and then another slow buildup in the last map. It certainly isn't the only way to do level design, but that kinda stuff just feels good to me when it's done well.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Not Jabba

[TJG1289]

I finished this last night, and thought it was excellent! This was a really fun set of maps, and the visual variety is top notch. Loved the visuals in LordEnt0py and DFF's maps a lot. Map 02 was giving me Ribbiks/Nirvana/etc vibes but was nowhere near a punishing, which I am very appreciative. Shawny's episode ender was a grand finale with really cool visuals and an awesome skybox, plus some really interesting fights. Really liked both the one with the timed platforms, and the one where you have to keep the archies blocked. All the other maps were great too! Not a single bad one in the set.

 

 I, like a few others, did have issues with falling into pits that I'm assuming I wasn't supposed to be able to. I remember this mostly in the last map, when I was able to walk through the red force fields at the far northern part of the map. Also, what exactly are the lava falls supposed to do in map 08? I'm assuming they work similarly to Muumi's crusher traps from Mapping at Warpspeed, but every time I shoot the switch to activate it, the lava appears to do nothing to the enemies, ore even myself if I get under it. I am using GZDoom 4.8.2, so that may be why. I just noticed we're at 4.10.0 for it now, so I'll download that version and test it out. Even with the lava traps not working correctly, I still had enough ammo playing continuous to beat it.

[Not Jabba]

6 minutes ago, TJG1289 said:

Also, what exactly are the lava falls supposed to do in map 08? I'm assuming they work similarly to Muumi's crusher traps from Mapping at Warpspeed, but every time I shoot the switch to activate it, the lava appears to do nothing to the enemies, ore even myself if I get under it. I am using GZDoom 4.8.2, so that may be why. I just noticed we're at 4.10.0 for it now, so I'll download that version and test it out. Even with the lava traps not working correctly, I still had enough ammo playing continuous to beat it.

Yeah, the lava definitely kills any enemy that's under it, regardless of its hp, and the map is basically designed as "laugh at your enemies while you insta-murder them." I was playing in GZ 4.10.0 and it worked fine, so maybe it was some glitch with the older version not supporting MBF21.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Not Jabba

[ViolentBeetle]

I imagine instant death floors is one of the tings that fall under "MBF21" features that are turned off for many, and I'm not even sure what compat flag would turn them back on.

[TJG1289]

No, it's not that. I just updated to GZ 4.10.0 and the lava still wasn't doing anything. I have the compatibility settings on MBF too.

[ViolentBeetle]

Just now, TJG1289 said:

I have the compatibility settings on MBF too.

MBF is not MBF21. Try the default.

Or try searching directly for MBF21 through compsettings.

[TJG1289]

2 minutes ago, ViolentBeetle said:

MBF is not MBF21. Try the default.

Or try searching directly for MBF21 through compsettings.

Ah, ok. My default was MBF; I hadn't touched anything. I found that disable MBF21 setting and turned it off, and now it worked! 

[nobleflame]

18 hours ago, Shawny said:

I, personally, like slower starts and have no great regrets about this. It is a bit weird to have a start like that after MAP10, will say that, but I designed the map to be "like a small episode of it´s own" - to build map slowly from killing cannon fodder to more chaotic fights.

Not saying this design philosophy is good (or bad), just expressing why it is done like that.
Plus, there are 2 secret rocket launchers (one on each side) early that mitigate this to an extent.
(One of which will be hinted a bit more in future patch.)
So technically once you know where they are the early stage pacing should be less of an issue.
At least from what I tested, it is. Again, your experience may vary depending on your preference in maps/combat.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I have seen people fall into the blood with no way out, and yes, it is one of the things I have been "monitoring".
I thinking about just separating the "big door" into 2 smaller ones so that player will land on one of the platforms more/almost reliably.
It may not be the best solution, but it is easy to implement and have a good balance between being functional and not being/looking too janky.

 

The first thing is definitely a preference thing, and really it's my own fault for playing single-seg UVMAX runs. The fact that I don't allow myself to save is what was causing my fatigue in repeat playthroughs. Definitely do not change this; the level is a work of art as it is!

 

And second thing - double doors would fix the issue entirely. I'm not familiar with DOOM level building, so I'm not sure how difficult it would be to move one of the rooms / areas a few paces to the left or right to ensure the player falls onto a platform when running through the central part of the door?

 

Thanks again for an epic map :)  

[ViolentBeetle]

Release candidate 3 is now out.

- Fixed an edge of MAP01 being a wall textured as sky instead of actual sky.

- Fixed some textures in MAP02

- Secrets in MAP11 should be more obvious

- Maybe some other minor stuff I forgot

- Added ZMAPINFO that should address most of compatibility issues for gzDoom players

 

Since there doesn't seem to be a lot of issues anymore, this will probably be the last candidate, would appreciate someone running a full test on non-UV skills (I will eventually do it myself) and on gzDoom (I am having hard time running it here)

[Firedust]

What GZDoom version is recommended?

[ViolentBeetle]

3 minutes ago, Firedust said:

What GZDoom version is recommended?

Anything with MBF21 support, shouldn't be a lot of difference. I'm using 4.8.2 personally, seems to work.

[Captain Toenail]

Ok I'm half way through map11 (which is epic btw - love the minigame floortile section) now but stuck - what do I do once I have the red key and hit the red button in the main lobby?

 

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been covered other than Map05 is very visually cluttered with all the vines and mushrooms. This can make it quite taxing to see and make sense of what is going on - I would recommend thinning it out a bit. You could also maybe flip the green or red mushroom sprites horizontally so they are not all leaning the same way. 

 

Love the clever tricks like the lava flows and the details like the stone torches, overall solid wad.

 

 

 

[Firedust]

On 5/7/2023 at 4:28 PM, Shawny said:

 

Yeah, some cutting and adjusting of the map should have been done while in dev, but I couldn´t help myself.

As someone who's a huge fan of large sprawling maps, I'm glad you didn't! Sometimes levels remind me of these fun exploration adventures, revealing their secrets before the player sector after sector. I love it when I start roaming a huge map and eventually my playthrough reaches a point where it all comes together and I get hit by the sudden realisation of the global idea the mapper had in mind for their creation.

[Amiga Angel]

I played the first 3 so far on the easiest difficulty... extremely impressive stuff.. like wow... really really nice

 

my favorite so far is map 2

 

map 1 had some odd detail made with floating middle textures that looked really odd and

 

map 3 neds more health and had a missing texture near a staircase plus a few unfair monster traps

 

the theme with each map starting and ending with a staircase is really cool and reminds me a bit of the old heroquest game

Edited May 10, 2023 by Amiga Angel

[Shawny]

2 hours ago, Captain Toenail said:

now but stuck - what do I do once I have the red key and hit the red button in the main lobby? 

Now go to do the blue section (not sure what version you are playing) and there you will learn how Korax switches work.
You need to BOTH use the top part and shoot the bottom of the switch. Do that on both sides and you can progress.
Doing BOTH is never needed again, you just need to keep in mind you can do that for section that comes later.

If you playing RC2/RC3 you get "locked" with the switches so you will eventually find out what to do.
In the initial release the whole thing is a bit more confusing.

[thelamp]

Just finished playing this today and it is a great set of maps with lots of interesting combat and spectacular visuals! Thanks to violentbeetle for suggesting I play it and thanks for making these great maps everyone involved in the project!!

 

 

[ViolentBeetle]

1 hour ago, thelamp said:

Just finished playing this today and it is a great set of maps with lots of interesting combat and spectacular visuals! Thanks to violentbeetle for suggesting I play it and thanks for making these great maps everyone involved in the project!!

I watched every video except for the last one yet, it's good to see it's mostly working as intended beside a few graphical issues.

[ViolentBeetle]

New, quite likely last, release candidate. I added a compatibility flag to the ZMAPINFO that I forgot last time, that should prevent bugging out for the stairs on MAP03. Some more fixes for other maps.

[Book Lord]

Played the first three maps, and found nothing except superb visuals, great atmosphere, and exciting gameplay! I can expect nothing less from this team, but I am once again blown away by your creations.

 

I hope to play it up to MAP11 before you decide to upload it to idgames!

Edited May 25, 2023 by Book Lord

[Book Lord]

Here’s some feedback about What Lies Beneath. I did not find many technical issues, which is normal considering it’s RC4. I did not write the map and the author names because you did not disclose them in the OP, and I will use the spoiler tag when needed. I hope @ViolentBeetle reads everything and informs the interested mapper if needed.

 

MAP01

A striking opener that sets the mood and elevates the expectations to sky-high levels. Great Doomcute props, exquisite architecture, light but non-trivial combat, and compelling secrets. I was not surprised to see the name of the author at the end, and this was his most chilled map I played in a while.

 

MAP02

A succession of small but interesting combat set pieces in an underground mausoleum full of water and round shapes. Very clever jumping progression and secrets, good balance, and proper use of flying monsters in the large cave. Lost Souls were especially dramatic in their appearance and gave me quite a bit of trouble. Lost Souls feature prominently in this WAD and it’s great.

 

MAP03

A tech-base level with constant ambushes taking place, carried through proficient use of closets and teleports. While visually less impressive and more standard than the previous 2 maps, it introduces MAP04 theme in a proper manner and carries the narrative. Perfectly fine for the job.

 

MAP04

Here the set begins to take off in both difficulty and Boom trickery. Something has gone terribly wrong in this site; power seems partially off and must be restored to access the lower portion of the caves. The gameplay balance seems oriented to pistol start, especially the ambush that takes place after turning on the power generator. The appearing enemies could be killed if you have enough rockets, but players are more likely to escape by killing the former humans and reaching the upper room, where they will be trapped by red force fields. What happened just after flipping the lever was a bit unexpected: the monsters outside teleported inside the room, adding a lot of chaos while other closets opened in sequence and Arachnotrons shot from the green portal. I retried the ambush after killing the monsters outside, which is feasible for continuous players, and I had a much smoother experience with the events inside the force field. I feel teleporting the previous monsters inside the room was a bit too much; maybe just deactivate the force field on a timer and release them inside the laboratory?

 

The large ambush when collecting the BK was hilarious, only for the cloud of Lost Souls that made me retreat to the starting area. The final arena with the drilling machine was another great example of voodoo doll magic: first you activate the drill, then you must resist an onslaught of enemies that includes more Arachnotrons shooting from behind force fields, Lost Souls and PEs, and others in your way. Not extremely difficult once you know you have no other choice but to escape and prioritise the most dangerous enemies, and that ammo will be dispensed automatically.  The problem I have with this sequence is that you are a bit too busy to notice the drill has stopped, and other changes such as the crate rising to get out of the cave (Tag 179). I left the cavern when it was possible, then returned there not knowing where else to go. At that point, I checked the borehole and found the RSK. The respawning enemies on crates were also a concern since they were replenished even when the ambush was over. You must kill them one by one to max out the map, but it would be nice to have them crushed instead, like the Arachnotrons. The closet that dispenses them has a conveyor belt with tag 173, shared with a nearby Voodoo Doll conveyor belt closet. I think it could be possible to add a new linedef to crush the remaining monsters in that closet (see my screenshot below), but you must avoid crushing the voodoo doll as well (maybe change the scrolling tag for the VD closet). Overall, an amazing map.

Spoiler

MAP05

Cramped fungi cave combat that relied a lot on obstructing the player’s view with vines, mushrooms, and other weird stuff. The start was especially troublesome because I could not see a thing, but everything improved since I got the rocket launcher near the RSK. Lots of Cacodemons to kill in a narrow environment, I found them exceptionally thrilling during the YSK ambush in the small archaeological laboratory, paired with hitscanners and a nasty Arch-Vile. Not my favourite gameplay, but ok as a variation. 

 

MAP06-MAP11 are inside the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

MAP06

Believe it or not, I found this “Indiana Jones-styled” map to be a relaxing break between combat-intensive levels. I found the brown dig site aesthetics to be quite charming in the dim light, and the place had an eerie atmosphere that brought back memories of similar places seen in Return to Castle Wolfenstein and other chapters from that franchise. Exploring tunnels and ancient chambers is always delightful, and the ambushes were serious enough not to be a pushover. The arena with multiple waves of Imps, Revs and Arch-Viles concluded the map à la Ancient Aliens, therefore it surely fits the bill.

Spoiler

I found a minor texture problem on linedef 3186: it uses EGYPBRK1 and is on the same plane of the nearby INCBRIK1 vertical stripes. It should either have an indentation or be retextured as INCBRIK1, then aligned to form a seemingly contiguous wall. The discrepancy disappears when the room behind is revealed later. The opening on the other side is textured with INCBRIK1 and is not visible (linedefs 3189 and 3968).

 

MAP07

A lovely map with time travelling effects that reminded me of Skulltiverse MAP15. The concept here is less developed, consisting of only one jump in the past and back to the present. Returning to what resembled Ancient Egypt but might have been whatever “golden age” you might think of, admiring pyramids and ornate temples in the desert, and fighting large but not overwhelming groups of demons, constituted a memorable experience. The Cyberdemon was expected but still quite easy to handle in that cavern. No use of special MAP07 tags here, but still plenty to see and do.

 

MAP08

A gimmick map that expands a concept from the same author that used ordinary crushers. These caverns contain shootable switches that trigger huge lava drops and instantly kill anyone in the affected sectors, leading to many fun ambushes where you will be struggling to use magma flow to dispatch as many enemies as possible. In my opinion, the reset of the system is too quick and exploiting it is a bit too easy, if compared to the crushers in Alien Tartarus. It’s nice that at some point the player must deal with a magma drop that is not under their control, and they must collect the YSK before taking a deadly shower. The secret informed me that the author might either love or hate Minecraft… surely, he is not indifferent to that videogame.

 

MAP09

A hellish temple filled to the brim with enemies, it contained a couple of surprisingly effective and fun slaughter set pieces. The warm-up allowed to collect weapons, then the RSK path unleashed a hefty ambush with dozens of Imps and Revenants. You must be quick with rockets or be dead. The express elevator to hell after the red bars was super exciting, and the same could be said for the warm welcome at the bottom. I had a lot of fun with this encounter, which was easier than expected when I was first surrounded by the horde. The big mouth that released the last squad of hitscanners and the expected healers was a good introduction to the following map. Another really good level where I found no flaws to report.

 

MAP10

A flesh hell that released wave after wave of monsters to assault the player and chase them in gory caverns. Everything worked exceptionally well, except that I was a bit baffled when the Icon of Sin disappeared after pressing the red switch. The last wave included many Arch-Viles, and while hunting them down I fell into the revealed Cyberdemon cavern and found myself in a new set piece, before clearing the rest of the map. This was not a huge problem, but it was a bit confusing to stumble in that last battle unawares.

 

MAP11

Big, sprawling endgame map with monumental architecture, symbolism, and strong atmosphere. I begin with saying that it is very hard for me to fully enjoy a map like this. It's unbelievably long, sometimes unforgiving to the unprepared player, and it lacks enough resources to have free rein in the final battle. This is the closest modern take to Citadel at the Edge of Eternity, a legendary behemoth that shares some elements with this map. On the other hand, this map outclasses it under every possible aspect.

 

The red (sun) wing had quasi-incidental combat in the first area, a library built around a bending hall, then sent me into a circle-strafe arena with a Cyberdemon and many other guests, ending with the hardest and most cryptic of all challenges: the room with the blood pit and platforms sinking and raising on a timer. I had a hard time figuring out what to do; when I solved the puzzle, it looked like I cheated. The four switches appearing at the corners of the pool must be pressed to cause the pool to raise and the platforms to stop sinking. I could not hit the switches sequentially because the situation was too chaotic, I kept falling into the blood and dying, without learning which platforms would lower and why. The crossfire and the constant monster spawn was difficult to endure, and I was ready to give up, then I noticed that I could press the switches in the corners even when they were not revealed. I was afraid that it was an undesired effect caused by the DSDA/PrBoom+ setting "Use passes thru all special lines", which I kept in function after playing The Mucus Flow. I disabled the setting and the trick still worked.

 

Pressing all four switches allowed me to beat the arena quickly and without much frustration. There were problems, such as two pits with Barons that did not raise (Sector 6540 associated with tag 963 and Sec 6529 associated with tag 964, seen in the screenshot).

Spoiler

The voodoo doll trickery behind this arena is very complex, I could not understand the logic, but the bug must have something to do with pressing the 4 switches too fast, without waiting the time of the scheduled reveal. I think the puzzle is a bit too much on the cryptic side, I could not find clues to understand how it worked and avoid falling in the damaging blood. If the author finds a problem with the corner switches and fixes it, the puzzle will be tough to crack. I suggest making the blood harmless, as there is enough pressure from flying monsters and projectiles thrown in the pit. This should give the player some time to think.

 

The blue (moon) wing featured easier puzzles, the hardest one involving a chaotic battle inside an arena with Arch-Viles around the perimeter, that should be blinded with screens raised with shootable Korax switches. The function of these switches must be forcibly learned in the first area of this wing, but there was a Korax switch working the same way at the end of the red wing. It was quite confusing since I received no tutorial before. Maybe place a similar switch in two parts to replace the small one on linedef 36870, using one effect to lower the walls (tag 164) and the second one for another effect I am unsure about, maybe to rise the bridge with tag 173 to the right level. Linedef 19335 might only cause it to partially rise, trapping the player but not allowing progression unless they learn how the Korax switch works. The arena with the teleporter and the arena with the chessboard were not too difficult and only used up a lot of time. I did not particularly like the blue wing, but I blame map fatigue for that.

 

Once the keys are acquired, the heart of the sanctuary can be accessed. The first ambush involves a Cyberdemon with many Hell Nobles. I was sure I would receive ammo to fight them, but I must cause infighting to survive, and kill the last Barons with chaingun and SSG. The battle against the boss started all of a sudden, and the hellspawn did not give up after their leader’s demise. I was a bit exhausted and typed IDDQD when I saw that more enemies were appearing. I think the boss battle would have worked better as a separate level, since this one had a bit too much on its plate for this heavy dessert.

 

A technically impressive map, featuring good combat puzzles without feeling too cryptic (except the end of the red wing). I cannot appreciate its length and the rationed ammo in the finale, where you are supposed to land the final blow to the new incarnation of evil and must count you resources instead.

General thoughts:

What Lies Beneath had a quick pacing, with only a couple of maps being rather long (MAP04 and the triple-sized MAP11). The different themes were nice and there was always something special to admire in every map. There were some new textures and custom things to distinguish the product, but I was a bit unsure about the MBF-related effects on display. The map set has only one new enemy and most of the behind-the-scenes arrangements looked like Boom voodoo dolls. Maybe the crusher effects, e.g. the lava flush on MAP08, were generalised crushers which could not happen outside -cl 21. Not sure since I did not play MBF 21 map sets except Judgment.

 

Good work ViolentBeetle et al. Once again you delivered a stunning WAD.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Book Lord