Videos/guides of people mapping layout-first?

[Catpho]

Mapping layout-first is something unfamiliar to me in practice, despite hearing about it all the time. Anyone got a video or VoD of someone mapping using this method? If there isn't, are there any guides?

[ramon.dexter]

Okay, can you be more specific on what you actually want to see?

[Catpho]

I thought I was already pretty clear? Just recordings of levels that were made with layout first (not necessarily final layout, just a draft layout is also fine), and then thing placement, texturing, additonal modifications, etc. later? I'm of the impression layout-first and room-by-room are two fairly popular approaches in buidling maps, and since I have a harder time picturing how the former works, I thought I should ask. Can you tell me what was vague about my question?

[HorseJockey]

Not sure how helpful this is, if I can find the video I was looking for I will update. But something I found helpful, was when someone described layout first mapping as designing a floor plan. I tend to go room by room, but that gets me into trouble because I will spend a ton of time detailing one room and then never finish the level. When you start your map, not even with a plan necessarily, start with your first rooms basic shape and move on, add a door way, then a hall or court yard. Keeping in mind that your just placing in basic shapes, don't do any more detailing then you need to. Something that got me in the habit of doing this was Unreal Ed actually, as you could and the standard was to use meshes for your decorative geometry and not brushes. So you would 'block' out the level with brush geometry, if you had a spot where there was going to be a pillar you would just put a rectangular prism. After you have your level blocked out, you would then go through and place your 3d meshes that had all the detail. The idea is to essentially get your collision for the map placed, stairs, walls, using basic shapes as representation for your more detailed objects. I always fall victim to detailing, but one of the best pieces of advice I ever received was "if your map is fun to play, with basic shapes and dev textures, it will be fun to play". Not a video but hopefully somewhat helpful. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

16 hours ago, Catpho said:

Mapping layout-first is something unfamiliar to me in practice, despite hearing about it all the time. Anyone got a video or VoD of someone mapping using this method? If there isn't, are there any guides?

 

I could have sworn that I'd seen some mapping time-lapses, but I can't find any on YouTube that would demonstrate the process from start to finish...

 

I'm not sure if something like a "definitive" tutorial on the matter exists, let alone how useful it might be.

 

Despite the fact that my maps were mostly made with thing-placement in mind, which tends to result in a "greybox-to-greybox" approach more often than not (where the layout of individual rooms is the most important aspect for me personally), I did a few ones where layout came first - most recently my UDINO maps (an older example would be my map in JOM05 "winter weekend") - all of which were mostly about the layout at first, but also for vastly different reasons, and with very different results, accordingly.

 

I think if you want to wrap your head around the idea, the best comparison I can make right now would be that mapping layout first is like drawing a (potentially convoluted) flow-chart in the editor, and then working your way around it as you need to.

 

If I were to write a tutorial (not that I'd do that, because there are lots of people who can do that better than I would be able to), I wouldn't even know where exactly to start, because at the end of the day the reason for doing layout first, in my case, depends a lot on the goals for a particular map (be it pacing, sense of scope, interconnectivity, or something else entirely).

 

If there's one advice I think I could provide, it would be to think about why/if doing layout first could be a beneficial method with regards to what you want your map to be like. Once you've identified the approach you want to be taking, most of the "operational steps" will probably become self-evident.

[SleepyVelvet]

I'm actually an idiot on this subject and will gladly write a guide.

 

Step 1:  Start drawing a broad layout.  Details and alignment don't matter yet.  Make sure to think of the 3D space you are building along the way: how it feels to move around in and go from place to place; how each vantage point and vista looks like to-and-from each other; seeing your vision mold into a more and more functional skeleton for the environment or jungle-gym you see in your mind, which doesn't have to be 100% clear but trusting the process and that it will all come together in the end.  

 

Step 2: Never touch it again, leaving it to die in the large boneyard of map skeletons (literally) that may or may not be forgotten forever.

 

Step 3 (Expert): The reason Step 2 sometimes happens is because you might've bitten off too much and having a hard time getting to 100% of your vision as you twist and bend the map to your will.  This is an "uncanny desert" that seems kinda hard to push through: You run out of steam, get mappers block, etc.  It can feel like trying to solve a sudoku puzzle by just placing numbers here and there willy-nilly.  Easy at first, but this builds more and more resistance as you get closer and closer to your goal. 

 

If that's the case, then just settle for 80%, just accept that it won't be perfect.  Another way to get through this mapping-block desert is to rely on "ol' reliable" tricks.  Having cop-out monster placement strategies helps.  Throw 'em in, and adjust the geometry a bit if need be.  Let the shapes anneal, stretch, or shrink-wrap if it feels right for the locale you're working on - don't overthink it.  You can always abuse support textures on seams if things line up weird (24 unit wide SUPPORT3 is my favorite).  Other tricks, like using upper/lower unpegged to solve texture alignment fast help a lot too.  Anything to make wrapping up the map smoother.

Edited April 26, 2023 by NoisyVelvet

[Bauul]

I tend to use this method a lot, as I get too bogged down in details if I do room-by-room and the level loses cohesion as a result.  A few tips I use are:

• Lock yourself to the 64-unit grid and don't deviate from it.  This helps you focus on the macro shape of the level and not the details
• Pick one or two textures that represent the overall theme of the level (i.e. don't stick with STARTAN) and use those throughout.  This helps you visualize the overall style of the level without needing to spend time picking textures
• Do quick in-game tests regularly, to get a feel for how a space looks in-game and what it's like to navigate
• Chuck in enemies to see how they navigate and cope with the playspace.  Doesn't have to be the final roster, but if you know how common enemies like Demons and Imps handle a space early you can make changes quickly without having to undo any detailing
• Set up keys, doors, lifts etc. as you go, i.e. make sure all the foundational interactive sectors that would be needed to beat the level are present, as these will help you feel how the level plays as you run through it

It's remarkably quick to build a level this way, and the final result is surprisingly robust.  Then you can take your time detailing and tweaking rooms, placing Things etc., without the worry of wondering what's going to come next.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Bauul

[BiZ]

I use a blockout method for my maps. Its really fast and efficient, but most importantly for me, it keeps me from detailing the map too early which is where I often run into trouble. I have realized that I almost never draw out a perfect room the first time. I will often have to adjust the size and shape of the room multiple times as the map progresses. Every time I have failed to complete a map, it was because of detailing. I would draw a room, and then do a bunch of intricate texturing, sector work, or lighting only to realize later on that I had to stretch or expand the room in some way which becomes an absolute nightmare when dealing with a bunch of small detail lines/sectors.

 

Here are a few tricks I have developed and a few I have picked up from other mappers:

 

- I start all my maps now with a lunch box, which is just a square room where I pick out a handful of starting textures/flats. I look for colors that provide nice contrast, as well as light/dark versions of some colors, and also a few textures which have nice crisp horizontal and vertical lines. This is a technique I picked up from @lunchlunch and while he tends to stick pretty judiciously to these textures, I use them only to make sure I limit my texture work in the early goings of the map. I can't just STARTAN everything, so this scratches the texturing itch while making sure I don't go overboard. Later on when detailing I tend to use other textures.

Spoiler

 

- Simplify your lighting. I pick out 3 lighting levels to start, one for outdoors, one for indoors, and one for light sources and that is it! No gradient fades or light ring sectors. Save that stuff for the end.

 

- Get the map playable as quickly as possible. I've done most of my mapping for community projects with pretty tight deadlines so it is important to get the map into a playable state and get it to play-testers as their feedback is crucial. That means I focus on layout, things, and actions at the start. Making sure there is a start/exit, adding monsters/health/ammo, making sure doors/lifts work, etc. While you won't always have a deadline, getting the map playable quickly has other benefits as well. I personally find it easier to get motivated to work on a finished map that just needs detailing, rather than working on a nicely detailed map where I still have to draw out entire rooms.

 

- Draw basic shapes to start. Instead of making a round pillar with 5 ringed sectors just make one sector. It won't look sexy, but at the start I find it is more important to figure out how much space I need stuff to take up. I could spend 15 minutes carving sectors into said pillar and making sure all the textures are nicely aligned, but if I find through testing that I made it way, way too big and now need to shrink it down, I just wasted all that time detailing. Here is an actual example:

Spoiler

 

 

And that is basically all there is to my method. I'll drop a few pictures below of this method in use. Pictures on the left are actual v1 blockouts which I got to a fully playable state and sent to playtesters, whereas the pictures on the right are all the final version after i made a detail/lighting pass over the blockouts.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I'm only mapping for like a year and a half but I moved onto layout first recently, and also made some timelapse videos of the process. So yeah, here you go, shameless plug. I can write something up if you want too. 

 

Edit: I mean, I'll write something later, I'm super busy right now. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Sneezy McGlassFace

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

1 hour ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

I'll write something later, I'm super busy right now. 

Right, so, I like to draw organic shapes because squares don't spark creativity in me. Set the grid to something big like 256 or 128, and start putting lines down. Not worrying much about what it'll be when it's done. 

It's really important for me to have a general idea of the progression, theme, and difficulty/gimmick. This is a gimmick map, so I'm placing lines with the gimmick in mind. The questions I'm asking is how it feels to move in the space, and how are the encounters. I test all the time, and make adjustments. 

Don't know about general rules but I can tell you what's happening in my mind making the map in the video.

You can see in the vid that basically by the 4th minute mark, the entire base layout is done. But i don't know what the map will be beforehand, I don't have a plan, I just have a faint idea. I find that the clearer the idea of the map is in my mind, the less fun the mapping process is. It feels like work. But anyway.

There's a blue door marker that goes nowhere, and the outside area is only seen through the window from the very first room. That's done intentionally, so I have more fun drawing lines when I get tired of texturing. The map will end in the caves on the west but I don't know what's gonna happen there. And I don't know that until I get to that part. Leaving multiple things undone keeps the map exciting to make. 

When the layout is more or less done, there's a lot of iteration on texturing and detailing. Then lighting, and then it's kinda done. Oh, and a little tutorial section explaining the gimmick. That's last because by that point I have a good grasp on what I want from the player. That's something I've seen Romero do with sigil. 

 

Doing each step separately makes the map a lot more cohesive, in my opinion, even though I'm changing themes in pretty much every room, anyway. And I find it much easier to just draw lines without worrying about the textures, as I would if I did it room-by-room. 

So yeah, I'll quit rambling, hope it was at least a bit helpful. 

 

Last thing - the best way to learn something is to just try doing it. Try making a small map, and texture it later. 

Glhf :)

[Maribo]

I don't think either of these meet your exact criteria, but since NIH mentioned time lapses, I figured I'd post the two that I know of off the top of my head:
Ribbiks making The Womb, from Sunlust

Nefelibeta making Erosion Encounter - part 2 - from Midnight Isle

[Catpho]

Thanks for the detailed replies, everyone. Espeacially the ones with images and videos.

Maribo: Yeah, time-lapses like that were what I had in mind as well. Also thanks for the Ribbiks vid link. I was trying to find it forever.