Couch-gaming needs some Doom love!

[CapersOnSalad]

Got a Steam Deck a couple of months back and wanted to play some Doom with my partner using the dock and some controllers I had lying around. There's a plethora of source ports available on Linux, yet none of them offer anything to accommodate a couch-gaming experience. That's not to say that some of them don't try, but they do it in a very half-baked way that makes it seem like more of an afterthought.

 

Some issues:

• UI that requires kb/m
• Finicky gamepad implementation
• Annoying launchers
• Complicated installs/no flatpak
• NO SPLIT-SCREEN

 

On a desktop, this usually isn't an issue. Hell, with Doom Launcher, I got everything I could ever want on the PC. But Doom is such a simple and accessible game, so the fact that one of the most active fan communities has locked itself to the desktop for decades is shocking to me. I would say GZDoom is the best luck I had as it's easily accessible from flatpak and despite having one of the most expansive UIs in history, is relatively easy to navigate with a controller. GZDoom however, requires the console to start a multiplayer session and has no split-screen which I find surprising given that it's packed with features everywhere else. I tried Doom Legacy, which has had split-screen for years, and oh boy. I know that port is infamous for being complicated to install on Windows, but I figured that since the developer was such a Linux stan it would be easier and...no. Oh no. 

 

Now there is the Unity port, and it is an absolutely fantastic version of vanilla Doom. But anyone who says the split-screen on that thing is acceptable is living a lie. For those who don't know, here's how Bethesda thinks Doom, a game from 1993 that looked acceptable at 320x200, should look for local multiplayer:

Now imagine this image on a 16:9 television several feet away, and you get the idea. Even worse, the Unity port doesn't offer LAN play, so there's really no way of getting around the problem...

 

Let me just put it like this: it took me 2 hours of tinkering to try and fail at getting an acceptable version of Doom split-screen. It only took me 2 minutes to get exactly what I wanted in Sonic Robo Blast 2. Couch gaming needs some love here. 

 

 

[dasho]

25 minutes ago, CapersOnSalad said:

But Doom is such a simple and accessible game, so the fact that one of the most active fan communities has locked itself to the desktop for decades is shocking to me.

 

 

I don't understand this statement. It only stands to reason that the primary ecosystem for a port would be the one that its initial implementation came out on.

[CapersOnSalad]

1 minute ago, dasho said:

 

I don't understand this statement. It only stands to reason that the primary ecosystem for a port would be the one that its initial implementation came out on.

I disagree. The Doom community has outgrown a lot of things over the years. Launchers have replaced command lines, vanilla limitations are a thing of the past, and the game has been ported to everything imaginable. I find it hard to believe that the Doom community is inherently shackled to the desktop, especially since the lines between console and desktop continue to blur. 

[dasho]

1 minute ago, CapersOnSalad said:

I disagree. The Doom community has outgrown a lot of things over the years. Launchers have replaced command lines, vanilla limitations are a thing of the past, and the game has been ported to everything imaginable. I find it hard to believe that the Doom community is inherently shackled to the desktop, especially since the lines between console and desktop continue to blur. 

 

It's not about being shackled; anyone for which couch gaming is the top priority would likely have a traditional console and Doom port to go with it. A Steam Deck is not a traditional console, and for many people would be considered a luxury item on top of the normal PC that they likely need for non-gaming purposes. 

[CapersOnSalad]

2 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

It's not about being shackled; anyone for which couch gaming is the top priority would likely have a traditional console and Doom port to go with it. A Steam Deck is not a traditional console, and for many people would be considered a luxury item on top of the normal PC that they likely need for non-gaming purposes. 

The fact that the Steam Deck is not a traditional console is part of my point. There has been a proliferation of mini PCs and handhelds that are designed to mix the two experiences. Not to mention that consoles like the Xbox Series S/X allow app sideloading, which further brings this generation closer to PCs. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. 

 

Source ports can be experienced in more ways than ever, and that reveals how inaccessible they can be. 

[D4NUK1]

LZDoom have a split screen local, i trink also Woof have but don't quote me on that.

[dasho]

6 hours ago, CapersOnSalad said:

The fact that the Steam Deck is not a traditional console is part of my point. There has been a proliferation of mini PCs and handhelds that are designed to mix the two experiences. Not to mention that consoles like the Xbox Series S/X allow app sideloading, which further brings this generation closer to PCs. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. 

 

Source ports can be experienced in more ways than ever, and that reveals how inaccessible they can be. 

 

Right, but if it is a relatively new/emerging capability that you are describing, you shouldn't also make claims that the community has somehow been shackled or 'made it inaccessible' for decades.

Edited May 2, 2023 by dasho

[CapersOnSalad]

17 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

Right, but if it a relatively new/emerging capability that you are describing, you shouldn't also make claims that the community has somehow been shackled or 'made it inaccessible' for decades.

Is it wrong to say that couch gaming has never been a priority for Doom source ports? I'm not trying to pass off some ill intent on behalf of port devs. All I'm saying is that with how productive the community is, I'm surprised it hasn't been done earlier. By effect, they locked themselves to the desktop. Again, no intent. I even told you that I don't believe it's an inherent thing, it's a result of circumstance.

Edited May 2, 2023 by CapersOnSalad
Clarification

[Redneckerz]

7 minutes ago, CapersOnSalad said:

Is it wrong to say that couch gaming has never been a priority for Doom source ports? I'm not trying to pass off some ill intent on behalf of port devs. All I'm saying is that with how productive the community is, I'm surprised it hasn't been done earlier. By effect, they locked themselves to the desktop. Again, no intent. I even told you that I don't believe it's an inherent thing, it's a result of circumstance.

Its because most Doomers:

• Play solo (Through whatever machine available and which ports that has)
• Play multiplayer (Over the internet)

The option:

• Play on the couch

is as rare as with modern games having splitscreen features. If you have people it is tons of fun, but it never was something heavily featured for Doom.

 

Historically however, there have been some ancient ports that did this:

• WDMP (Windows Doom Multiplayer) 4 player splitscreen Doom based off NTDoom - and https://www.doomworld.com/doomgl/other.htm (With source at https://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/) (Michael Ryssen)
• MultDoom - predecessor to WDMP, 2 player splitscreen Doom

There is however LZSplitdoom today:

 

[CapersOnSalad]

11 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

Its because most Doomers:

• Play solo (Through whatever machine available and which ports that has)
• Play multiplayer (Over the internet)

The option:

• Play on the couch

is as rare as with modern games having splitscreen features. If you have people it is tons of fun, but it never was something heavily featured for Doom.

It seems to me like a catch-22 problem. The game is really fun in cooperative, yet there are not a lot of ways to do it locally. Better to just do the regular setups or play something else when it comes to MP.

 

Regardless, I hope with time the concept catches on. Doom never gets old alone or with friends, and I think a more convenient setup would help bring more people to the community. The official port is great, but there's so much more on offer. 

 

EDIT: Thanks for the port suggestions!

Edited May 2, 2023 by CapersOnSalad
clarification

[Redneckerz]

1 minute ago, CapersOnSalad said:

It seems to me like a catch-22 problem. The game is really fun in cooperative, yet there are not a lot of ways to do it locally. Better to just do the regular setups.

It seems to me its more a problem of desire. You desire that Doom gets more popular for couch surfers and list out reasons why, citing a missed potential. I reply with explaining how Doom is played today and how there doesn't seem to be an indication that is about to change.

 

Because the same problem exists with modern gamers. What do modern gamers do? They either play single player adventures or they play online over the web. Couch/local game is, admittely, a nostalgic thing (I consumed eons of time with Timesplitters, Dethkarz and so on, which could do splitscreen) but its just not a popular feature nowadays for modern games, even less so for Doom.

 

[CapersOnSalad]

4 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

It seems to me its more a problem of desire. You desire that Doom gets more popular for couch surfers and list out reasons why, citing a missed potential. I reply with explaining how Doom is played today and how there doesn't seem to be an indication that is about to change.

 

Because the same problem exists with modern gamers. What do modern gamers do? They either play single player adventures or they play online over the web. Couch/local game is, admittely, a nostalgic thing (I consumed eons of time with Timesplitters, Dethkarz and so on, which could do splitscreen) but its just not a popular feature nowadays for modern games, even less so for Doom.

 

Maybe that is it. I don't think it's an invalid desire though. Just because something isn't popular doesn't mean there's no demand; plus, a lack of accessibility also hampers gauging what popularity a feature like this could have in the first place. Sure, modern gamers don't value couch co-op (though it is a big part of some popular games), but I'm referring to Doom players specifically; people who are willing to mess with source ports so they can curate their own experience. Maybe split-screen would be a solution to a problem players didn't know they had, or maybe it'll be met with apathy. I think it's worth a shot either way.

[Metal_Slayer]

2 hours ago, CapersOnSalad said:

Now there is the Unity port, and it is an absolutely fantastic version of vanilla Doom. But anyone who says the split-screen on that thing is acceptable is living a lie. For those who don't know, here's how Bethesda thinks Doom, a game from 1993 that looked acceptable at 320x200, should look for local multiplayer:

Now imagine this image on a 16:9 television several feet away, and you get the idea. Even worse, the Unity port doesn't offer LAN play, so there's really no way of getting around the problem...

 

Let me just put it like this: it took me 2 hours of tinkering to try and fail at getting an acceptable version of Doom split-screen. It only took me 2 minutes to get exactly what I wanted in Sonic Robo Blast 2. Couch gaming needs some love here. 

 

 

320x200 is acceptable if you were playing with four player, I think the screen looks like that because each player has a 16:9 screen, try making it 4:3. But if you want to play in two monitors there are different solutions, they just aren't on Linux.

[Danfun64]

None of the Doom split screen ports really hit the mark. I feel like, for all of Unity Doom's faults, it hits the closest to good split screen. It's interface is developed with consoles in mind, which I don't think can really be said for stuff like LZDoom. It's also pretty much the best out-of-the-box solution. You open the game and can load add ons through just the controller, a feature which none of the split screen community source ports have. Other issues include LZDoom utilizing fake split screen (I honestly wonder how GZDoom with Nucleus Co-op would turn out in comparison), the split screen branch of Eternity being dead (though it was nice while it lasted) and IIRC not really supporting the automap for other players, Doom Legacy being a bit archaic (I know it got sdl2 support recently but I don't know how that applies to controller input and, more importantly, supporting analog triggers at all), EDGE..... I know EDGE used to have split screen support but it was never complete and I think it was removed? Etc., etc.....

A "good" split screen oriented port would be a big effort, and it's only fair if nobody wants to give it another go. Features that would be nice would include loading iwads and pwads in game and changing combinations whenever you please without closing and reopening, real split screen and lan options, multiple monitor support, console ports (supporting at least the Switch V1, Switch V2 (includes OLED, Lite), Xbox One (original/S/X)/Xbox Series X|S, and Playstation 4 (Pro) (I don't believe the PS5 has been jailbroken yet)), and gyro support where available. Admittedly, this wish list is a bit of a pipe dream, and you'd have to pick which port you'd want to base stuff on (It might not be good to have settings as complex as GZDoom's for example, plus custom actions might not bind to controllers very easily.)

[Redneckerz]

15 hours ago, CapersOnSalad said:

Maybe that is it. I don't think it's an invalid desire though. Just because something isn't popular doesn't mean there's no demand;

I don't disqualify that desire, nor do i ignore that there isn't a demand. But i am saying that its presumably not popular enough to warrant development for it.

15 hours ago, CapersOnSalad said:

Maybe split-screen would be a solution to a problem players didn't know they had, or maybe it'll be met with apathy. I think it's worth a shot either way.

So what do you suggest then? Ask source port devs to implement this feature?

You are already saying it yourself: It would be a solution to a problem players don't know they have, because they play Doom through the means i already mentioned. So the desire for many of them is already met through those means.

[Altazimuth]

Edward850 got a Steam Deck and his crap experience using it to play Eternity prompted me to drastically improve the out-of-the box controller experience for that. You could try a devbuild if you want, though there's still stuff that needs improving (certain numeric fields only take input via kb). Either way it's much better than it used to be.

[bLUEbYTE]

Have you tried GZDoom? Its controller support is stellar, 100% coverage too. I game with an xbox controller exclusively.

[ASD]

22 hours ago, CapersOnSalad said:

Now there is the Unity port, and it is an absolutely fantastic version of vanilla Doom. But anyone who says the split-screen on that thing is acceptable is living a lie. For those who don't know, here's how Bethesda thinks Doom, a game from 1993 that looked acceptable at 320x200, should look for local multiplayer:

[pic]

Now imagine this image on a 16:9 television several feet away, and you get the idea.

The 2-player split-screen used to be playable before they switched the aspect ratio from 4:3 to 16:9, adding more field of view at the cost of screen size.

 

22 hours ago, CapersOnSalad said:

Even worse, the Unity port doesn't offer LAN play, so there's really no way of getting around the problem...

Apparently online was too complex to code even though the BFG Edition exists.