Spectres in Pits

[SwiftBlitz]

What's up with spectres in pits with damaging floors? everywhere i go i always see them. take for example, the end of MAP05 or MAP06 from doom 2. ya rarely see other enemies in such pits. it really confuses me.

[Xerenogan]

I think part of it is to add extra punishment for falling into the pit, and also partly to trip up people trying to kill all the monsters.

[Lucius Wooding]

It's a classic way to punish the player for falling down or staying near the edges of pits. It's harder to see them down below with the animated hurtfloor textures and dim lighting. Over the course of several maps you're supposed to get a bit paranoid of dark places if you're playing blind, it adds to the experience not knowing every monster placement in each map.

 

In Doom 1 it was commonly established that secrets would be hidden in many such pits, particularly in E1. Therefore the inquisitive player would be baited into taking the plunge to explore them. Spectres are just a way to keep you on your toes, since you'll get blocked and possibly cornered if unwary, and combined with the hurtfloor damage it can result in great peril for low health players. However the trusty SSG really makes it trivial to blow through them.

 

There are also occasional fights where you could jump down into a pit with a rad suit in order to escape melee and easily kill monsters above on a walkway or bridge, being able to move freely while the monsters are confined for your rockets. This monster placement heavily punishes that cowardly tactic since you can face rocket or get bitten if you don't deal with the spectres first. I can think of a few maps this applies to but I don't want to spoil.

 

The reason other monsters aren't used much in this fashion is the fact that placing them down below makes them awkward to kill. Most of the Doom 2 monsters are just tanky and annoying to kill if they're not lined up nicely for your weapons. The SSG will usually miss lots of pellets if shooting below, and rockets can easily damage you from the same position. Killing stuff like barons and mancubi is a huge chore in these cases. Plus they can have a tendency to wander around and become difficult to spot or find. There are examples such as hitscanners being used in early maps in slime pits (like chaingunners in map 3), but usually spectres are traditional. Projectile spamming enemies can't really hit you and don't pose a threat if they're in a pit except if you go near the very edge.

 

Finally, Cacodemons and Lost Souls are often used in these kinds of places, but you don't notice because they can fly. Spectres are perfect because they aren't super tanky, they use melee, and aren't noticeable or high priority targets so you overlook or underestimate them. Then once you realize you're in trouble they cause a bit of panic.

[Martin Howe]

7 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

There are also occasional fights where you could jump down into a pit with a rad suit in order to escape melee and easily kill monsters above on a walkway or bridge, being able to move freely while the monsters are confined for your rockets. This monster placement heavily punishes that cowardly tactic

What some call 'cowardly', I call 'clever strategy'. But I understand that mappers don't necessarily agree.

[RjY]

12 hours ago, Phantaxal said:

What's up with spectres in pits with damaging floors? everywhere i go i always see them. take for example, the end of MAP05 or MAP06 from doom 2. ya rarely see other enemies in such pits. it really confuses me.

 

There were some plausible suggestions in this earlier thread:

I think there is a certain element of monkey see monkey do. People put spectres in slime pits because their illustrious forebearers put spectres in slime pits. The question of precisely where the trope started still lacks a satisfying answer, although a somewhat likely candidate is the soulsphere secret at the eastern end of E2M3 (the similar secret in E1M6 southwest is a Mandela effect -- no spectres there, despite my memory insisting otherwise).

 

4 hours ago, Martin Howe said:

What some call 'cowardly', I call 'clever strategy'. But I understand that mappers don't necessarily agree.

 

Agreed, it is always a pleasure to find a way to trivialise a difficult encounter. But modern designers are aware of all the tricks, and work hard to counter them.

[ASD]

Some of the damaging floors have souls whose touch deteriorate doomguy's life. Spectres are just stronger beings of the bunch.

Edited May 12, 2023 by ASD

[Lucius Wooding]

6 hours ago, Martin Howe said:

What some call 'cowardly', I call 'clever strategy'. But I understand that mappers don't necessarily agree.

 

I'm certainly not judging. Personally when I'm playtesting maps I always try to find ways to cheese fights even if it's not needed, since many mappers don't really anticipate how players might handle a situation outside the mapper's own instincts. That kind of feedback can be eye opening and valuable to beginning mappers. If a map is hard I'll usually find strategies to exploit as best I can, intended or otherwise. 

 

Then when I'm making maps I generally add some complications to prevent these kinds of tactics from being too obvious or powerful where I think of them. It's not that I never ease up on the player, or catch every strategy they might come up with. I just like having some nasty surprises in store when they think they're safe. It's memorable and a necessary part of good combat to add some countermeasures like this and not just allow one move to completely remove the danger from a fight. A bit of a cat and mouse game between mapper and player. I think Sandy Peterson was notorious for these kinds of tricks and/or traps that spice things up quite a bit.

[DNSKILL5]

Spectres are easy enough to put down, but because they’re hard to see it makes them more threatening when they can use the environment to their advantage. Darker areas and moving textures help them blend in to their environment better than static walls and bright areas.

 

I imagine if the other monsters (by default and not through mods) had spectre variants that fired partial transparent puffs or projectiles that they’d be used far more than the OG spectres for these situations. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by CAM-7EA

[Maximum Matt]

23 hours ago, Phantaxal said:

What's up with spectres in pits with damaging floors? everywhere i go i always see them. take for example, the end of MAP05 or MAP06 from doom 2. ya rarely see other enemies in such pits. it really confuses me.

Yeah you're right, there's one in map04 too

[TheSlipgateStudios]

A classic trope that should live on beyond Doom 2.

[Scotty]

Was always one of my pet peeves with some of the original maps. Completely nonsensical monster placement.

[Denim Destroyer]

Facing down a horde of melee only enemies in a nearly inescapable area that is also slowly damaging you over time is a great concept which so happened to become a universal mapping trope. However taking in certain limitations in mind, i.e infinitely tall actors, this great concept turns into an anger inducing inconvenience when merely strafing near a pit edge can cause you take damage from the enemies below.