Rusty Drill - A Scythe Themed Community Project (Slots Filled?) New Beta Available (4/11/24)

[Jacek Bourne]

1 hour ago, EPICALLL said:

if you ever make it to the end of the green section... This map is impossible.

 
False. I have playtested this map quite a bit and every jump is able to be done using strafe-running. Though I am curious what made you come to this conclusion. Please show me and I can explain how to do it.

 

Regarding the pace, you can play this map quite quickly if you learn the map. My best in game time is about 5:30. 10 minutes real time.

 

About the visuals, I can definitely do more.

 

Creativity bankrupt? Just because I designed a map you didn’t enjoy does make it lacking in creativity.

 

Zero room for error? I went out of my way to make this much more accessible with the ideas I had than most other things I make. 

There is no saving this map? I think that you might just not enjoy platforming maps. I respect your opinion but I think you should consider that others may not share it and it is not objective.

 

I do think that I’d enjoy talking to you over a call about my map so if you’re interested then pm me.

 

No hard feelings. I hope you understand my points.

 

[Tangra]

@Jacek Bourne that reaction got me curious, and i took a quick look at the map. I think it's visually striking for being limited to just vanilla textures. The magic here is in the lighting, which for me adds a ton to the visual quality. But even the texturing alone is nice, the brown rock, marble, iron and blood, in an underground environment, decorated with hanging bodies and torches casting light in the darkness - classic! You can't go wrong with that combination, it's simple but very effective. That moment when you lower the starting elevator and the whole cavern reveals, with the big structure at the center that you can't make sense of just yet. Really cool starting view. Makes me want to do a genuine playthrough. I might do that, though i can tell, i'll probably get my ass kicked in UV, but i can settle for one of the lower difficulties if it comes down to that.

[Jacek Bourne]

7 minutes ago, Tangra said:

@Jacek Bourne that reaction got me curious, and i took a quick look at the map. I think it's visually striking for being limited to just vanilla textures. The magic here is in the lighting, which for me adds a ton to the visual quality. But even the texturing alone is nice, the brown rock, marble, iron and blood, in an underground environment, decorated with hanging bodies and torches casting light in the darkness - classic! You can't go wrong with that combination, it's simple but very effective. That moment when you lower the starting elevator and the whole cavern reveals, with the big structure at the center that you can't make sense of just yet. Really cool starting view. Makes me want to do a genuine playthrough. I might do that, though i can tell, i'll probably get my ass kicked in UV, but i can settle for one of the lower difficulties if it comes down to that.

I’m not sure you downloaded the correct map.

[Tangra]

23 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I’m not sure you downloaded the correct map.

 

Isn't it map 29? It is your slot, yes?

[Jacek Bourne]

1 minute ago, Tangra said:

 

Isn't it map 29? It is your slot, yes?

Yes, but my map has no brown, marble, iron, or blood textures in it.

[Tangra]

12 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Yes, but my map has no brown, marble, iron, or blood textures in it.

 

Oh, i see, it's the pure platformer on slot01 in the file. But then what's with the other map on slot29 in the file? Did you make that one too?

 

Dammit, i'm an idiot... yup it's been some time since i've played Doom 2. Sorry for that :D

Edited September 21, 2023 by Tangra

[Pseudonaut]

11 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ewdf7188bv8mbcu/The_Abyss.zip/file

I've never really been into these monsterless platforming-only maps, so this is very tough for me. I made it to the third secret (apparently far enough to exit on HNTR) before I stopped. It's not a bad map, but not for me, and Doom platforming fans will probably appreciate it more than I do. It's hard to say how well this fits into a non-secret slot in a Scythe tribute project, considering the original wad had Run From It in slot 28 (which is a lot easier than this map, frankly). Maybe it should be map33?

[EPICALLL]

7 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

 
False. I have playtested this map quite a bit and every jump is able to be done using strafe-running. Though I am curious what made you come to this conclusion. Please show me and I can explain how to do it.

 

Regarding the pace, you can play this map quite quickly if you learn the map. My best in game time is about 5:30. 10 minutes real time.

 

About the visuals, I can definitely do more.

 

Creativity bankrupt? Just because I designed a map you didn’t enjoy does make it lacking in creativity.

 

Zero room for error? I went out of my way to make this much more accessible with the ideas I had than most other things I make. 

There is no saving this map? I think that you might just not enjoy platforming maps. I respect your opinion but I think you should consider that others may not share it and it is not objective.

 

I do think that I’d enjoy talking to you over a call about my map so if you’re interested then pm me.

 

No hard feelings. I hope you understand my points.

 

I should have probably said more about each point, because you managed to misinterpret all but one of them.

 

Impossible - probably a gzdoom thing, because on the escalator platforms, you get flung all the way across the map in a third of a second.

 

Pacing - not a reference to the pace of the map, but rather the whole project. This map grinds things to a halt.

 

Visuals - yep.

 

Ideas - it's just... one dimensional. If you were to strip this level down to it's ideas, it's nothing but finding the right spot to land. My suggestion would be to add more, like rocket and teleport puzzles with the platforming, because as it is, the limited ideas aren't nearly enough to carry the map.

 

Zero room for error - inescapable pit at the bottom. It's a problem here because of all the other issues I find with this map, making this one just add to the unfair feeling of this map, rather than a problem in and of itself.

 

No saving this map - the way I see it, the map would be better if rebuilt from the ground up than tweaked into oblivion. Just one man's opinion, however.

 

Dislike of platforming maps? - I have no problem with platforming maps, I just have a problem with this one. Think the platforming map from Italo Doom... It may be hard and frustrating, but what makes me like it is that the platforming is more than just "run here, avoid that"

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Egg Boy]

10 hours ago, EPICALLL said:

Before I say anything, I would like to say that I don't mean harm with whatever I say, and I apologize if whatever I say comes off as ebrasive.

With that being said...
This is the worst map I have ever played, bottom line, no comptetition.
Let's start off with the visuals. They are not abstract, clever, or intricate. They are mediocre at best and butt ugly at worst. The COMPBLU variants do not look good when it's the only damn thing with a texture.
Second, the pacing. This map grinds the WAD to a halt just so it can say "Hey player! Go f**k yourself! Here's 20 whole minutes of torturous, painfully creatively bankrupt & so-frustrating-that-you-would-literally-kill-somebody-just-to-get-out-of-this-damn-nightmare gameplay with absolutely zero place for rest or room for error!"

And third, perhaps the most blatantly obvious fact if you ever make it to the end of the green section... This map is impossible. No, really. There is literally no possible way to complete this map. This is the one and only example where a map is so bad that you are actually forced to cheat just to get out of it.
Also, this is not Erik Alm... Like, at all, or even Ribbiks, which is clearly what you're trying to go for here. I wouldn't even dare to suggest that somebody like Kevin Reay (rest his soul) would even think of making a map like this. Because if there's one thing he's never short of... It's ideas.
In summary, I would rather play the master levels on Nightmare with my feet in the middle of a west-african hornet's nest while eating 300 kilograms glass than play this map.

There is no saving this map.
Start over.
(sidenote; rob approves :D)

Left a snarky response but I kinda felt bad about it immediately. This is not how you should ever handle feedback to a community project, especially if you’re looking to lead one. This is hardly constructive, it’s almost entirely insults. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Egg Boy

[EPICALLL]

1 hour ago, Egg Boy said:

Left a snarky response but I kinda felt bad about it immediately. This is not how you should ever handle feedback to a community project, especially if you’re looking to lead one. This is hardly constructive, it’s almost entirely insults. 

Yeah, probably my biggest sin is that whenever I go to criticize something, particularly something that triggers my "AOSUGVDHJFJRKDBIWB" reaction... I get so caught up in pointing out the flaws that it doesn't even cross my mind that what I'm saying isn't really that helpful. Probably the main reason why my experiences with bridgeburner were like oil and water.

[cannonball]

Scythe has one of the most controversial maps in the classic era (I say classic because I think Scythe just about pre-dates the more modern sets that we have got used to today). So it isn't wrong to do something to rile the player up, unfortunately for me platforming is not my strong point and trying to offer any kind of feedback feels worthless because in the end my complaints stem purely from my ability to handle stuff like this. In the end is A2Rob is happy then I would say that a little more effort could be done to spruce the map up (at the moment it feels like it needs to be fleshed out a bit more visually, like the map is merely a concept piece to test the water). Other than that, may whatever deity have mercy on you once you load this up :P

 

[taviow]

Outsider's perspective here, but I agree with cannonball, I think there is room for one very controversial map in a Scythe-based project. As for the map being unplayable on GZDoom for some reason, perhaps ideally it should be playable there as well but if it isn't, it's not even the target port and OP actually recommended against it, so it would maybe fall outside the scope of the project? I don't know.

[AD_79]

11 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

There is no saving this map? I think that you might just not enjoy platforming maps. I respect your opinion but I think you should consider that others may not share it and it is not objective.

 

I'll share mine. I think attempting to place a pure platforming map into a Scythe-esque project (it's in the thread title!) is a very poor idea. Many people are not going to enjoy these sorts of maps and would prefer something that fits the aim of the project better, myself included. This is a niche map (far more than Run From It ever was) that belongs in a niche mapset, not this one.

[Bobby :D]

Alm, even in his most extreme forms of punishment, keeps it brief and eloquent. A run of Run From It can only be as long as 30 seconds or so. This map is an exercise in patience that doesn’t match the energy of Alm. 

[EPICALLL]

53 minutes ago, AD_79 said:

This is a niche map (far more than Run From It ever was) that belongs in a niche mapset, not this one.

Precisely.

[Jacek Bourne]

1 hour ago, AD_79 said:

This is a niche map (far more than Run From It ever was) that belongs in a niche mapset, not this one.

I’d consider Run From It to be a more niche concept for a map than platforming exclusive levels. I can name far more platforming maps than speedrun style levels. Though I could just be missing them.

[Bobby :D]

8 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I’d consider Run From It to be a more niche concept for a map than platforming exclusive levels. I can name far more platforming maps than speedrun style levels. Though I could just be missing them.

That’s not what they meant by niche. For the purposes of a set like Scythe or Scythe 2 a pure platforming level is pretty niche. Also niche is not the same as unique. 

[Doomy__Doom]

14 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I’d consider Run From It to be a more niche concept for a map than platforming exclusive levels

The issue people are having with your map is not that it's platforming per se, but that it's enthusiast-grade platforming in a general audience project.

 

FWIW, I enjoyed trying it. But I agree with the sentiment that it's too out far there. Grey/green stilt sections I can somewhat see as "that one map in a scythe-themed project, adjusted for overall community skill increase over the years", but blue section's scroller platforming... I don't think most people attracted to this kind of project would know how to even begin approaching that stuff.

 

I believe it's totally possible to have a "map 28 but it's platforming" in this project, but Zzul-Violence is not the target difficulty here.

[Azure_Horror]

I tried to play the platforming map by @Jacek Bourne...

 

I know some basics about platforming, but even the first ascend of the grey section (the one past the first big square) gave me trouble. So grinding this map even on HNTR seemed like a Labor of Sisyphus to me. I do think that I can save scum may way through this map - but it won't be fun at all!

 

Scythe map 28, for all its infamous brutality, takes only about 30 seconds per try. "The Abyss" is much, much longer. On top of that, "Run from it" is a downright breeze on HNTR, and pretty manageable on HMP, doubly so on Continuous, when you can just spam plasma all the way through the map. The Abyss is hard even on the lowest of difficulties!

 

And finally, there is still no famous maps with the same idea like in "Run from it". But there is quite a few dedicated platforming WADs.

As the result, The Abyss feels less like a "Run from it" reference and more like a "Fire-and-ice type monster, but platforming instead of slaughter".

 

As map33, the Abyss would be a wonderful addition to Rusty Drill. A platforming Gauntlet is a cool Void-themed level. But putting it into the main progression will be a run killer for far too many people.

 

[Jacek Bourne]

@tonytheparrot Would you be interested in swapping slots so I can have 32 and you 29?

[spineapple tea]

20 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Here's a version with the edit you requested:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/slgprsggjenv28d/Watching_The_Abyss.zip/file

Is Mediafire down right now or is there something wrong on my end? It's throwing me a "secure connection failed" error when I click download.

Edited September 21, 2023 by spineapple tea

[tonytheparrot]

1 hour ago, Jacek Bourne said:

@tonytheparrot Would you be interested in swapping slots so I can have 32 and you 29?

I am ok with it, seems like it would be a better place for your map and I haven't started mine 

[Jacek Bourne]

1 hour ago, spineapple tea said:

Is Mediafire down right now or is there something wrong on my end? It's throwing me a "secure connection failed" error when I click download.

 

I think it's on your end. I just tested it and it was fine for me. I'm working on a v3 of the map though so if you wait a day or so I'll have a new link.

[A2Rob]

1 hour ago, tonytheparrot said:

I am ok with it, seems like it would be a better place for your map and I haven't started mine 

 

Alright, the slot claims have been updated.

[Jacek Bourne]

Here's what's probably the final version of my map:

Walking The Abyss

 

The visuals have now been implemented.

 

Download:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/a9097zeqr936gri/Walking_The_Abyss.zip/file

[cannonball]

I have made a start on Map19 (Finally)

 

 

Not much so far, but hopefully the ETA shouldn't be too long, it is supposed to be a short map after all.

[Death Bear]

I admittedly won’t be starting my map probably for another two weeks. Just in case anyone out there is keeping track. 

[EPICALLL]

44 minutes ago, Death Bear said:

I admittedly won’t be starting my map probably for another two weeks. Just in case anyone out there is keeping track. 

oooh! oooh! me!me!me! i keep track!

(why did i make this)

[cannonball]

Okay here is a first draft of Map19

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6h4mupla5gpqsjho345or/Blue-Alert.wad?rlkey=mzg32jnjtiwi9jdvvkzy75niu&dl=0

 

Name - Blue Alert

Midi - Stardust by Tristan Clark

Tested in - DSDA Doom

 

This is probably a little rough around the edges and I will certainly improve the visuals in places but felt like getting the concept and theme tested would be a good idea before giving this a proper polish. The map does have a few tricky traps within it but nothing most cannot handle. The blue key progression might need a little more signposting because it is a little unusual in a thematic sense.

 

Spoiler

You must enter the computer itself to grab the blue key that disappears when you approach said computer that houses the key.

 

Time wise I had a finish time of 6 minutes whilst playing fairly quickly but wasted a minute or so finding a monster I had missed so this should be able to be justified in terms of length. Also some fights can probably be forced to play out far quicker than I achieved.

Edited October 3, 2023 by cannonball

[A2Rob]

2 hours ago, cannonball said:

Okay here is a first draft of Map19

 

Very cool map with a nice layout. The revenant / mastermind fight was probably the highlight for me. The computer room fight was also pretty dope. The final fight could have a bit more bite to it, since I was able to just run by all the oncoming threats after rocketing the closet archy to death. I had to double check your post to figure out the blue key progression, so yeah, you probably want to make it more noticeable, since I completely missed the part where the key itself teleports away.

 

There's some sky transfer errors where the final group of monsters teleport in (right-most structure), as well as the teleporter exit on the mastermind platform. Also, you can just soft lock yourself by falling off said platform.