you feel like you're not a good mapper?

[Johnny Cruelty]

I like to map, but sometimes I feel like the content I create might not be good and sometimes I feel like I ain't such a good mapper compared to others

do you guys sometimes feel this way? idk Imjust wish I could map better sometimes

[LoatharMDPhD]

never underestimate your true power... learn the basics, learn the rules, then break them like an artist. there's always a Terry WAD 40 Fold worse than anything that has a player start, an exit, and a journey along the way...

[LoatharMDPhD]

// i started and still do... by drawing random shapes and tangents, then letting the map precipitate from the eather... so ideas are shit, others novel... but what else can you do these days, with fragging < kilobytes!!!! and make art out of it... pure magic... and it pisses off joe lieberman so always a plus! happy mapping amigos!!!....

 

//fucking joe lieberman... whats his problem? he doesn't code, he doesnt know what entertainment is....

Edited May 13, 2023 by LoatharMDPhD
fucking joe lieberman... whats his problem? he doesn't code, he doesnt know what entertainment is....

[LoatharMDPhD]

johnny... because you map, and keep 30 year old c-code alive in mind memory and spirit, you directly or indirectly inspired mick gordon to put crazy satanic ironic easteregg into the music of doom 2016.... what ever ideas you have, keep rolling with what works for you to enjoy playing your own maps. if you feel stuck, do what mick said.. change the process, change the result... cheers.

[fai1025]

well i never think my map is particularly good or well crafted, but my guts kept telling me if 1 person doesn't like it, I got 36720 more people that might love my maps.

Edited May 13, 2023 by fai1025
stupid grammar mistake

[Z0k]

27 minutes ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

I like to map, but sometimes I feel like the content I create might not be good and sometimes I feel like I ain't such a good mapper compared to others

do you guys sometimes feel this way? idk Imjust wish I could map better sometimes

 

yes i do, i think i suck to do any own made maps by myself since i never get feedback on how to improve my mapping, but i guess  im better if remade existing maps (not remake)

[Test Tickle]

Don't rely on validation, just do whatever the hell you want, it's your maps after all

[RataUnderground]

I don't think I'm a bad mapper, it's just that sometimes I forget to map well because I have other priorities, like mapping interesting.

[DNSKILL5]

Mapping is not a competition and it’s damn sure not a popularity contest. It’s a hobby you should enjoy doing first and foremost. 

[xScavengerWolfx]

I look at mapping like art. Yes sometimes maps are over detailed and some are just messy but in a good way. I'll admit i'm a novice mapper, my maps my not be ground breaking art pieces but at least i get to share them with other mappers and have then comment on it.

 

Another words never sell yourself short when it comes to mapping. Trust me i've learned that when u was in a community project. 

[Wo0p]

Some thoughts that help me when I feel like this:

• Making maps is like being a DM for a dungeons and dragons game. You don't have to come up with exceptionally intricate stories/set pieces for yourself or your group to enjoy playing it, you just have to make something to play. The enjoyment comes from the creation and the communal sharing of your work. 
• If 1 person voices their dislike of your map, there's 9 others who silently enjoy it.
• The only bad map is a map that stirs no emotions in a player. So if you bore everyone to tears or make them ragequit, it's an artistic win and it has value :)

[Johnny B. Getgoode (The Guy)]

All the fucking time. Sometimes I feel like my earlier levels for Fury's Sky are utter dogshit, especially when compared to my new stuff.

 

But if I'm being honest, I can say that I'm better as a mapper than I was a couple years ago. Hopefully being better than yourself counts for something. I'd say it does; it shows progress.

[Deadwing]

Always, but in the end I go back because mapping is addictive lmao

Validation sucks and you shouldn't do your work based on it, but we know it's never like this, it's a never-ending struggle.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Deadwing

[Al-Faris M]

Don't your compare your maps to others; a good map is a map that has character that brings any kind of feeling from the player, but character varies from map to map. Even Wow.wad can be considered a good map.

[Insaneprophet]

THE ONLY PIECE OF CRAP, NO GOOD, WORTHLESS MAP IS AN UNMADE MAP!

Every map that gets made by someone seriously trying to make something enjoyable is not only worth while but also a success beyond measure. I dont care if its only 2 rooms with a handful of demons, as long as I can tell the author was trying, I enjoy the hell out of it. I have never created a map in 30 yrs of playing doom, to my own shame, but the very best masterpieces do not, in my opinion, have any more validity or merit than "newbies first map." 

[Tangra]

As long as i'm able to make the levels that i want to make, i'm happy and don't draw any comparisons with more experienced mappers. Nothing good will come of that anyway. Expecting to make top tier maps after just 2-3 months in the editor is a wrong mindset. I know some people are just naturaly more creative and can make magic from the get go, but not having that ability shouldn't be discouraging, it should motivate you. My way of doing things, is to settle for what makes me happy, which is drawing inspirations from favorite games (even movies), and don't worry too much about it. I think of the story of my wad, and build bases and locations around it, it makes it more interesting. I also value feedback highly, positive, negative, it doesn't matter, as long as it's fair. I learn a lot like that, and it helps me to improve old maps and then implement the new knowledge into future ones. 

 

The only thing i wish i had, is the ability to develop my ideas faster, without getting burnt out as much as i do. And i do get burnt out a lot, not because i don't want to map, but because i come up with new stuff very slowly, and there's nothing enjoyable in staring at the editor for 20 minutes at a time without drawing a single sector. I have learned to deal with that by ignoring it and take breaks when there's no flow of ideas. The problem with this solution is that it further slows the mapping process. If i spend 3 months on each map, like the last one i did, i'm looking at a very long development hell for my little megawad. That being said, the map that i'm currently working on is developing very fast (for now), but i did change the formula for it, it's a very different theme, so that might be the reason.

[Dexiaz]

I always feel like I'm not good at mapping. But I'm kinda got used to this. I'm just doing it for fan, so I started to ignore this feeling. And...I'm getting used to this too, so I don't care anymore.

[RHhe82]

The world is full of great mappers, veritable masters who embody the mapping skills and sense of style of the authors in the top tier of WAD ranking list. Only they never get anything released. If you do, even if you feel this is not up to the standards, you have created them, they exist and are available for people to play - and then you are already far, far ahead of those would-be masters. So - no need to worry about those feelings. They'll come and go.

[DRON12261]

In fact, I've stopped noticing it lately. I mean, I don't perceive it as some kind of barrier. On the whole, I am somewhat satisfied with what I do.
 

A lot of people say that you shouldn't look at whether or not you're good at mapping, I don't agree with that. Otherwise it can be a situation where your skills have no progression, you must criticize yourself and try to overcome the next bar. You just don't have to take it as something negative. In general, you should never perceive criticism as something negative (well, of course, except for those moments when the criticizer presents it in an aggressive form, fuck those people). It's okay if there's something you don't like about your own work. It means you have room to grow and, most importantly, you see and understand it. I don't believe that most who make maps don't want to share them with at least one random player. A lot of people in creativity want to get some kind of approval from the outside, to get out into some kind of social interaction through their creativity. And of course, a certain bar of quality is always expected by anyone else in any given work (whether it's just a nice polished level or some interesting fundamental idea).
 

In general, I would just start highlighting a certain list of criteria, when you achieve that you will consider your work done. Determine this somehow, make your result calculable, so you can understand how much more you have to work on the map and whether it's ready. These criteria should be few to begin with, so that you can keep up with them. As you progress and generally as you make new maps, you will begin to notice more and more things. You will begin to notice more things as you play other wads. Especially if you have a favorite mapper (never hesitate to look at and analyze other works in builder, I actually learned a lot of mapping stuff that way). And every time you notice something new in your work or in someone else's - something you like, time to make adjustments to your list of criteria. Gradually, over time, you'll notice that your skills are rising and your work will get to the point where you confidently say, "Wow, I really did something special".

[Yousuf Anik]

8 hours ago, Johnny Cruelty said:

I like to map, but sometimes I feel like the content I create might not be good and sometimes I feel like I ain't such a good mapper compared to others

do you guys sometimes feel this way? idk Imjust wish I could map better sometimes

I used to feel like that after releasing my very first Mystery 1 slaughter mapset, when I realized that those maps were not really appealing to the players who like playing slaughter maps. The 6 six maps I put lot of effort to make looks good but they ended up played by a very few players. You can see it doesn't even have a single review lol.

But then I entered the SlaughterMAX community project with one map which I tried best to make different from the Mystery 1 maps. And when I started seeing people playing that map, playtesting and commenting for updates, I was feeling good and like that I've finally made at least a better map, even if it was a very little achievement. I was proud to be a part of that project and it inspired me again to continue mapping. I learned from the mistakes I made in Mystery 1 maps and now I'm trying to make the very best of my creation.

[Maribo]

1 hour ago, Yousuf Anik said:

I used to feel like that after releasing my very first Mystery 1 slaughter mapset, when I realized that those maps were not really appealing to the players who like playing slaughter maps. The 6 six maps I put lot of effort to make looks good but they ended up played by a very few players. You can see it doesn't even have a single review lol.

To be fair, the idgames review system has been closed for quite a while now, so any reviews would actually be here. The current review system is very uh.... not the best, people don't use it very much and it's actually lacking every idgames-published WAD from ~2018 onwards entirely.

 

For the record I'm glad that you've returned to Doom and I'm excited to see what you make. :)

[Yousuf Anik]

6 minutes ago, Maribo said:

To be fair, the idgames review system has been closed for quite a while now, so any reviews would actually be here. The current review system is very uh.... not the best, people don't use it very much and it's actually lacking every idgames-published WAD from ~2018 onwards entirely.

 

For the record I'm glad that you've returned to Doom and I'm excited to see what you make. :)

Yeah I've noticed it too and put some reviews here as well. For some reason, I can't seem to download any file from this review system. Clicking the Download this file and nothing happens afterwards. I have no idea why.

And yes, I've returned to playing Doom again. I used to continue playing Doom till 2019 but then I couldn't play much and stopped after that because so many things happened in my life and I was not in good shape after all the disasters and dilemmas I faced. Then once entering the job life I could barely manage time for myself, forget about playing. This makes great distance. At some point I was really missing Doom and started playing again, seeing my old things on my youtube channel and other players speedrunning... I'm glad to be here again!

[Silhouette 03]

I often feel like I'm not a good or especially talented mapper, though I am still new to mapping. I sometimes feel that I simply won't match up to some of the talented folks here on Doomworld, even with years of practice. They are capable of doing incredible things, and I have no idea how I would even start making the things they make, even with more experience.

 

I'm not really seeking validation, rather I want to make some really cool stuff that will hopefully appeal to at least some of the people here. It makes me so happy when I release a map for a Community project and someone says they liked my map. Putting a lot of love and effort into something and someone saying that they liked it really makes me happy. It's not the validation that matters, rather I feel it's the fact that someone had fun with something I made. That is one of the best parts of being a mapper, apart from actually making the map.

 

I'd like to think I have progressed a bit in the past two years since I started. My maps are getting bigger and slightly more refined in terms of layout(even though I keep making squares) and are a bit more challenging. One of my mapping goals is to have my playtester call me a c*nt. It's a sign that I've progressed to a point where my maps are cruel, balanced and fun. It may take years, but that Australian man will call me a c*nt. Weird goal I know XD 

 

Sorry for the long post and the ramble-y bits. I'm not the best with words, but I had a lot on my mind on this topic.

 

If you read all of this, have a nice day :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[magicsofa]

There's a term for how you feel, it's called being an Artist. This condition can be medicated against, but it never actually goes away. The best treatment is to just keep doing it while accepting that you'll never reach perfection.

[Individualised]

11 hours ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

never underestimate your true power... learn the basics, learn the rules, then break them like an artist. there's always a Terry WAD 40 Fold worse than anything that has a player start, an exit, and a journey along the way...

Are you calling deathmatch levels bad? :(

[Nikku4211]

I feel like I can't release anything.

I lack game design senses and tend to place enemies and items and weapons rather randomly in my often right-angular levels.

[EPICALLL]

I feel like a very subjectively good map. Because, there are some people I can think of who REALLY like my maps, and then there are some who REALLY don't, like Alm (or Petersen for that matter) in a way, but more modern and therefore more divisive.

Edited May 13, 2023 by EPICALLL

[Stupid Bunny]

I sometimes do.  I think everyone feels like that from time to time.  I'm less concerned by people being really annoyed by some of my maps, than by people being overall bored or underwhelmed by them.  Like @EPICALLL I know some folks who love some of my work and others who are mostly driven nuts by it, and the folks who really like some of my maps are really irritated by others and vice versa, and I'm fine with that because I'd rather try a bunch of weird ideas or create the kinds of sprawling, nonlinear hellscapes that I enjoy, knowing that even if some, even most people don't enjoy them there will be those who are like "Yes, this is exactly what I've been looking for."  Better that than just make tried-and-true compact techbase maps on into eternity.

 

Whenever this subject, and the broader topic of handling critique, comes up, I always come back to what works best for me: be clear in your mind what you want to make.  What kind of experience are you hoping for?  What is the map that you want to be playing?  And then, when people don't enjoy your map and offer (useful) critiques of it, ask yourself: did the map not succeed in what I wanted it to be?  Or are they just not interested in playing this type of map?  The example I've used in all these threads before, since it's relevant to me personally, is the distaste a likely majority of people here generally have for large maps over smaller ones.  I like big maps, and historically I've liked making them, but I also respect that it is very easy to make them disorienting and difficult to navigate beyond enjoyability if I'm not careful.  In these cases, I usually want to create an experience that feels like a journey, or offers lots of room for exploration and choosing different approaches at different points.  What I don't want is for the player to never have any idea where to go, or what any switch did, or have to spend two hours scouring every possible sidedef looking for the one thing they may have missed to progress while nothing else happens.  And so, when I've been called out for that, I make a point to change it and simplify or telegraph the progression a bit.  What I wouldn't do is shorten or shrink the entire map, because again, that would make it no longer the experience I want to create.

[tyss]

Sometimes when I think of some really cool map, i find it hard to put the idea onto the screen and make the map. But I’ve made like 1 or 2 maps im semi proud of

Edited May 15, 2023 by tyss

[Solmyr]

I used to feel that way when i was new to the community, but then i realized that it's dumb to feel discouraged by the work of better mappers because in the end what matters is having fun while mapping, it's not a competition nor a popularity contest, it's just a hobby.