That extended version of "Donna to the Rescue" from the Doom Music album

[Doom64hunter]

Something that pops into my mind every now and then, and which has bothered me for years, is that version of "Donna to the Rescue", which includes two additional sections at the start of the track, that was released in the Doom CD soundtrack:

 

 

A similar phenomenon can be observed in the Duke 3D track "In Hiding", which also received an extended release much later on Bobby Prince's Soundcloud, and includes a third section at the end of the track:

 

 

Now, by way of reliable sources, I know for a fact that this version of "In Hiding" existed as an actual MIDI file in the Duke3D Betas, in this exact form. This track was not extended after the game was released -- this was the original version, and was later cut down.

 

The obvious question that thus arises for me, and which has bothered me for years:

Does there exist a MIDI version of the original "Donna to the Rescue" (possibly even called "I've been hurted by your words!" in that version) in some Doom Beta that we do not have a hold of?

Are there potentially more unreleased "Use Not" tracks that were created for Doom, which we have never heard before?

 

In the wake of all the recent Duke Nukem leaks, has there been any hint of possibly another Doom Beta or Alpha version existing out there in the wild?

[Rudolph]

An interesting discovery for sure, but I honestly feel like those sections from "Donna To The Rescue" are a bit weak in addition to sounding quite redundant and might have ultimately been cut for a reason.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Rudolph

[Cammy]

Never knew about this. I actually really like the extra sections, the choir invokes more of a hellish atmosphere and I think the song really benefits from the extra length. I always found the synth brass lead grating, so I'm happy to hear a version of the song which proportionally has less of it.

[Individualised]

4 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

Are there potentially more unreleased "Use Not" tracks that were created for Doom, which we have never heard before?

Yes. "Waiting for Romero to Play", "DOOM", and "Getting Too Tense" were originally composed for Doom 1. I don't know why they were left out of Romero's releases. Judging by the amount of numbers skipped it's possible that Bobby Prince made a MIDI cover version for all songs in the albums present, i.e. Alice in Chains - Would.

4 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

Does there exist a MIDI version of the original "Donna to the Rescue" (possibly even called "I've been hurted by your words!" in that version) in some Doom Beta that we do not have a hold of?

The unused version is missing the lead altogether. It's possible that Bobby Prince went through multiple drafts for the leads and the soundtrack release is just a combination of them all, but I wouldn't be sure.

4 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

In the wake of all the recent Duke Nukem leaks, has there been any hint of possibly another Doom Beta or Alpha version existing out there in the wild?

I personally believe that some other ex-id members still have some builds but I'd be surprised if we get anything any time soon. I don't think Bethesda has anything and the circumstances between id Software and Apogee/3D Realms are so different that it wouldn't be a "leak".

 

Personally I'd like to see the A Trip to id Software build and the .WADs for the Doom 2 beta executables we have (we only have 1 reconstructed .WAD which is for a prototype slightly earlier than one we have), but it's unlikely that we'll see these any time soon IMO.

 

 

Also thanks for linking this. I've been trying to find the Doom Music album for a while but never could because I think Bobby Prince issued copyright takedowns for most uploads back when Doom was a bit more "new" (weird to say that) and no one tried to reupload it since (it's not on Spotify either unfortunately)

Edited May 16, 2023 by Individualised

[Gez]

2 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

Does there exist a MIDI version of the original "Donna to the Rescue" (possibly even called "I've been hurted by your words!" in that version) in some Doom Beta that we do not have a hold of?

Possible; Bobby Prince and whoever helped produce that CD obviously had the file and may have kept a copy of it somewhere all through these years... But I wonder if it wouldn't be simpler for one of our resident MIDIcians to recreate the song, especially now that we know where to find the pristine MIDI tracks, unmangled by the MIDI-to-MUS-to-MIDI conversions.

1 hour ago, Doom64hunter said:

Now, by way of reliable sources, I know for a fact that this version of "In Hiding" existed as an actual MIDI file in the Duke3D Betas, in this exact form.

Interesting... Could you tell more? Which betas? It's not Lameduke, as that one only had a couple ROTT tracks and some other random MIDI in it.

 

 

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I honestly feel like those sections from "Donna To The Rescue" are a bit weak in addition to sounding quite redundant and might have ultimately been cut for a reason.

1 hour ago, Cammy said:

I actually really like the extra sections, the choir invokes more of a hellish atmosphere and I think the song really benefits from the extra length. I always found the synth brass lead grating, so I'm happy to hear a version of the song which proportionally has less of it.

 

It's funny, I'm right between you two. I always loved the dirty, mean-and-not-nice-sounding synth lead, and I feel like the kinda wandering choir melody and the soft vibe it evokes makes the lead that much more impactful once it hits!

[DNSKILL5]

Re In Hiding: This was likely cut down to keep the track from clashing too extremely with the karaoke bar music as the parts that went unused are far faster paced and may have overlapped in a way that was undesirable. Plus, it seems Lee Jackson had to deal with what was called the “George Filter” so maybe this could’ve had something to do with it as well only for a track by Robert Prince.

 

Also, there are definitely Doom prototypes that never made it to the public. For both Doom and Doom II, mostly later in development builds. Some of the ones that did not get made public have video footage or screenshots at least. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by CAM-7EA

[MundyC]

Wasn't there a thread on this very forum talking about a homemade CD given by Bobby to a game developer which, among other things, had a still-unreleased five-minute version of Donna to the Rescue? It'd explain the random fade-out at the end of the Doom Music version...

[Faceman2000]

There’s this one, with Bobby Prince performing DDT Blues and At Doom’s Gate live:
 

https://archive.org/details/music-from-doom-vol-one

 

It also has the extended version of Donna to the Rescue, but it’s the exact same one from Doom Music as far as I can tell. I don’t recall any other CDs with live Bobby Prince being posted in the last few years.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Faceman2000

[Kwisior]

The choir part should've been shorter, but the track is overall better than the original Donna to the Rescue. The lead melody can drive you insane after some time.

[Doom64hunter]

17 hours ago, Gez said:

Interesting... Could you tell more? Which betas? It's not Lameduke, as that one only had a couple ROTT tracks and some other random MIDI in it. 

It's in one of the unreleased beta archives that were found when Frederik Schreiber acquired 3DRealms. A number of people have since then gained access to the builds, in particular the people that prepared the Shadow Warrior betas for release, and some details, including sprites and some videos of gameplay, have come out over the years.

 

The midi file for the old "In Hiding" is present in one of those archives -- and apparently, the timestamps indicate that the extended version you hear on Bobby's Soundcloud came first, and was later cut down for the final. A similar situation could be the case for "Donna to the Rescue", in that the extended version is the original.

 

12 hours ago, MundyC said:

Wasn't there a thread on this very forum talking about a homemade CD given by Bobby to a game developer which, among other things, had a still-unreleased five-minute version of Donna to the Rescue? It'd explain the random fade-out at the end of the Doom Music version...

 

Yes, I clearly remember this as well. It's another one of those mysteries about this track that have kept me wondering...

Of course, could also be the case that that guy was just lying. I wish we could get a hold of Bobby somehow to ask him whether there was any truth to that claim.

 

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

 

It's funny, I'm right between you two. I always loved the dirty, mean-and-not-nice-sounding synth lead, and I feel like the kinda wandering choir melody and the soft vibe it evokes makes the lead that much more impactful once it hits!

 

Hah, absolutely, and it makes me wonder how a hypothetical fifth and sixth section would sound.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Doom64hunter

[Uni]

Wow, I wish we got that version of the track. I agree with @Cammy about the choir invoking hellish vibes, kinda like E2M4's "They're Going To Get You". I do like the final product but I think it's too short and too repetitive. Shame it was cut.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Uni

[Al-Faris M]

I like this version better than the final version of the song: the choir melody adds substance to the guitar melody that sounds a bit repetitive by itself. However, I think it was removed^(?) because it sounds off-key.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Al-Faris M

[Doom64hunter]

20 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

There’s this one, with Bobby Prince performing DDT Blues and At Doom’s Gate live:
 

https://archive.org/details/music-from-doom-vol-one

 

It also has the extended version of Donna to the Rescue, but it’s the exact same one from Doom Music as far as I can tell. I don’t recall any other CDs with live Bobby Prince being posted in the last few years.

 

Surprisingly, there are a lot more anomalies on this CD and the "Doom Music" album, which have not actually been documented anywhere yet.

 

Most importantly, "Donna to the Rescue" isn't the only extended track.

 

Let's go through them all in detail (except for the Live recordings, since they aren't really relevant for this):

• "The Healer Stalks" is much shorter than usual (3:17 instead of 4:48). For some reason, the song starts at point 1:44 of the midi version on this CD. The small section of the loop you hear at the end on the CD version then also goes right back to 1:44 of the midi.
• "Intermission from Doom" is significantly sped up compared to the version heard in the game. From what I can tell, it appears to be playing at roughly 120% of the speed of the game's midi.
• "On the Hunt" appears to be the same as the version in-game.
• "Demons from Adrian's Pen" is probably the most baffling one. Just like "Donna to the Rescue", this one is also extended, but it's not immediately obvious:
  • Namely, the section from 1:42 to 2:30 on the CD version is completely missing from the midi. It seems like the game midi version jumps directly from the section ending at 1:42 to the section starting at 2:30 on the CD.
  • There's also a weird sound error at the very end, where the track doesn't loop properly. This is present in both the Doom Music album, and the "Music from Doom Volume One" version. Maybe an error in the midi file the recording was sourced from?
• "Suspense" appears to be identical to the game's version.
• "Running from Evil" also appears to be the same.
• "Waiting for Romero to Play" on the CD version is significantly shorter. It is missing the first 9 seconds of intro, as well as the last section spanning approximately 1 minute and 18 seconds.
• "Into Sandy's City" suffers from an error in the loop at the end of the track, much like "Demons from Adrian's Pen". Otherwise, it appears to be identical.
• "Shawn's got the Shotgun" appears to have an instrument missing in the section between 1:40 and 2:14, one which is very audible in the game midi (for comparison: https://youtu.be/9E7MPl4G2Qc?t=96). I'm not good at identifying different types of MIDI instruments, so if anyone could assist with this, that would be great. (On review, it being inaudible may also just be a side effect of the soundfont used)
• "Sinister" doesn't appear to have any differences.
• "End of Doom" is missing the intro, but otherwise appears to be the same.
• "The Demon's Dead" is much shorter on the CD version, 3:29 instead of the game's 4:23. The intro is there, but on the CD version, the song immediately skips to the second section of the game version that normally starts at 1:06. The rest appears to be the same however.
• "Demons on the Prey" appears to be the same.
• "Doom" has the first 6 seconds of intro from the midi cut away on the CD version, but is otherwise the same.
• "Donna to the Rescue" is extended with 2 extra sections at the start, as already described in the OP.

 

The "Doom Music" album includes 5 additional tracks which are not on the above CD. It can be found here: https://archive.org/details/doom-music

• "At Doom's Gate": includes several sounds from the game, interspersed through the track. The music is otherwise the same as the game midi version, except the ending, which was most likely created for the album. This ending can also be heard in the live recording.
  • However, there's still a minor mystery in this track. The sound at 0:10 appears to be a variation of the plasma firing sound which appears nowhere in the game. The actual plasma gun firing sound can be heard at 1:40 and is clearly audible, so this has to be a distinct sound effect.
• "Kitchen Ace (and taking names)": This is the third extended track on the album.
  • Right off the bat, the intro which in the midi is normally 20 seconds long, lasts for only 10 seconds on the CD version, and the drum transition to the next section is missing completely.
  • The section on the CD from 0:10 to 1:14, and on the midi from 0:21 to 1:24 are then identical.
  • The intro to the second section following this is again cut short. Instead of lasting 22 seconds (1:24-1:46) like on the midi, it is again half as long on the CD (1:10-1:24), but this time includes the same drum transition as on the midi.
  • The rest of the second section from 1:25 to 2:28 matches the remainder of the midi.
  • The rest of the CD track that follows is a third section of the song that is not heard on the midi version. Again, the intro is short, just like the preceding 2 sections. Structurally, this third section matches the second section, but includes an additional instrument. Sadly, it is quite hard to make out what instrument it is.
  • In this sense, this song seems to originally have been quite similar to "I Sawed the Demons", where each repeat of the loop adds additional instruments, with the third repeat of "Kitchen Ace" having been cut from the game.
• "Opening to Hell": Appears to be the same as the game version.
• "They're going to get you": Also appears to be the same as the game version.
• "Dark Halls": Sadly, also no differences in this one.

 

I didn't compare the recordings of the shared tracks between the two albums, but they are most likely the same between them.

 

In summary:

"Donna to the Rescue", "Kitchen Ace" as well as "Demons from Adrian's Pen" have extended versions in the Doom Music album. As far as I can see, the other two have not been documented yet on the Doom Wiki, so it appears that these extended tracks have been hiding under our noses all this time.

 

Moreover, the strange, seemingly arbitrary changes to many of the other tracks gives further reason to believe that these recordings may have been sourced from beta/in-development versions of the respective midis, rather than the final versions used in the game.

 

Edit:

The intermission track being significantly faster could also be because of its inspiration, Metallica - Fight Fire with Fire, which has a very similar pace.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Doom64hunter

[Revenant100]

The Doom Music album was produced first, and the reason why many tracks were shortened was to fit the ~70 minute capacity of a CD, as Bobby lamented on his site here.

 

If you're interested in more of Bobby's lost Doom tracks, he had uploaded a rendition of The Imp's Song to his mp3.com profile as seen here (plus a couple of other non-Doom songs). This track was not included on any of his disc releases, so it's unknown what it may have sounded like. This playlist indicates the MP3 was 3:31, making it over a minute longer than the 2:35 game version we have in MIDI/MUS form.

 

Unfortunately, only "Xenorage Live" (from the hit game Xenophage) seems to have been saved from Bobby's mp3.com days.

 

18 hours ago, MundyC said:

Wasn't there a thread on this very forum talking about a homemade CD given by Bobby to a game developer which, among other things, had a still-unreleased five-minute version of Donna to the Rescue? It'd explain the random fade-out at the end of the Doom Music version...

The lost further extended cut of Donna to the Rescue is detailed in the below guy's post, and the disc label there shows several more Doom and Doom 2 tracks which never received a disc or digital release:

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Revenant100

[Doom64hunter]

1 hour ago, Revenant100 said:

Unfortunately, only "Xenorage Live" (from the hit game Xenophage) seems to have been saved from Bobby's mp3.com days. 

 

Is it maybe contained within this enormous archive?

 

https://archive.org/details/mp3com1/

 

https://archive.org/details/mp3com2

 

Unfortunately, it is prohibitively large, 800 GB in a single tar file...

It's hard to imagine that an mp3 created by Bobby somehow became lost media, despite having been uploaded to the web :/

 

Quote

The Doom Music album was produced first, and the reason why many tracks were shortened was to fit the ~70 minute capacity of a CD, as Bobby lamented on his site here. 

Ah, that explains the weird cuts at least -- but it doesn't really explain why other tracks are extended.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Doom64hunter

[Faceman2000]

1 hour ago, Revenant100 said:

The lost further extended cut of Donna to the Rescue is detailed in the below guy's post, and the disc label there shows several more Doom and Doom 2 tracks which never received a disc or digital release:

 

Fascinating! This I did not know about.

[Doom64hunter]

1 hour ago, Doom64hunter said:

 

Is it maybe contained within this enormous archive?

 

https://archive.org/details/mp3com1/

 

https://archive.org/details/mp3com2

 

Unfortunately, it is prohibitively large, 800 GB in a single tar file...

 

Before anyone tries to download that -- I just managed to find a torrent mirror of this archive, and the filename in question is not listed within.

So unless someone happened to have downloaded "The Imp's Song" in the early 2000s, it seems that the extended version will remain lost media.

 

Edit:

 

2 hours ago, Revenant100 said:

The lost further extended cut of Donna to the Rescue is detailed in the below guy's post, and the disc label there shows several more Doom and Doom 2 tracks which never received a disc or digital release: 

 

 

I somehow get the feeling that Nagy's response here can't really be trusted. According to him, he was completely oblivious of the shorter version of the song for over 20 years, which is already pretty hard to believe -- since it also implies he never played the game, ever.

 

Somehow, I wouldn't put it past him to not even have opened the Youtube link you sent him in your response. Perhaps he just assumed that it was the short version again -- especially since he then proceeds to talk about "the 2 versions" instead of 3, like it would have to be the case if his copy of the song was even longer than the one in the "Doom Music" album.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Doom64hunter

[Individualised]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:15 PM, Doom64hunter said:

I somehow get the feeling that Nagy's response here can't really be trusted. According to him, he was completely oblivious of the shorter version of the song for over 20 years, which is already pretty hard to believe -- since it also implies he never played the game, ever.

Especially for a disc called "Nagy's Favorites"...