doom2: the revenant

[dremor8484]

my opinion is that revenant is too tall and risks to get stuck or have the head inside the ceiling.

 

what is your opinion ? do you perceive the revenant as too tall ? did you see it partially obstructed by geometry ?

[Maximum Matt]

I hate it when you see it magically go through a low-hanging doorway, like it's got semi-noclip for its' ugly head.

[dremor8484]

9 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

I hate it when you see it magically go through a low-hanging doorway, like it's got semi-noclip for its' ugly head.

thanks for the answer, so i am not the only one that noticed that happening.

[Wo0p]

Or maybe your geometry is too low? Don't height-shame the poor bastard. He's got enough issues already what with his horrendous melee sprites and having to rely on homing missiles to hit anything because of his lack of eyes ;(

Nah but I hate that poo too. Though most of the monsters honestly need like 4 or 8 units of height because they suffer the same issue in my opinion.

[dremor8484]

16 hours ago, Wo0p said:

Or maybe your geometry is too low?

 

sadly... it happened inside doom2 wad :'(

it doesn't happen often, but when it does... it kills immersion.

 

i will test if reducing its sprite to 75% would fix the problem...

but first i will keep playing till i find another place where this happens... (since i forgot on which map i got this "visual glitch")

 

you are correct somehow, it is mainly fault of who built the maps, and misplaced the monsters and items... for example even in the unmodded doom2 level 2 there are some barrels stuck inside geometry half inside a wall nearby a door

 

so far those are the only 2 graphic glitch i found in doom2 iwad: a few barrels stuck inside walls and a few revenant with its head phasing through a concrete ceiling.

[Foxpup]

1 hour ago, dremor8484 said:

it is mainly fault of who built the maps, and misplaced the monsters and items...

Not at all (at least not in this particular case); it's actually the fault of whoever set the monsters' properties. Contrary to assertions that Doom has only 2±0.5 dimensions, the Z axis exists and is taken into account when it comes to monster movement; monsters cannot enter sectors that are shorter than their defined height. The problem here is that the revenant has its height set to 56 units (the same as the player and humanoid enemies) despite its sprites being around 80 units tall, thus allowing it to fit under ceilings significantly lower than its visible appearance. (The arch-vile has the same issue, though it's less frequently noticed, due to it rarely appearing in tight spaces.)

[dremor8484]

30 minutes ago, Foxpup said:

Not at all (at least not in this particular case); it's actually the fault of whoever set the monsters' properties. Contrary to assertions that Doom has only 2±0.5 dimensions, the Z axis exists and is taken into account when it comes to monster movement; monsters cannot enter sectors that are shorter than their defined height. The problem here is that the revenant has its height set to 56 units (the same as the player and humanoid enemies) despite its sprites being around 80 units tall, thus allowing it to fit under ceilings significantly lower than its visible appearance. (The arch-vile has the same issue, though it's less frequently noticed, due to it rarely appearing in tight spaces.)

 

thanks for the explanation, i will keep an eye on the revenant and check if i fixed it, i used slade to check the pixel height... it can go as high as 92

 

for the barrels in map02 of doom2, i see it is an already known problem and not fixed by anyone:

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?style=14&f=2&t=60181

 

DabbingSquidward wrote:The usual suspect, Doom II's own MAP02 and its infamous stuck barrel and shotgunguy (on UV at least).

I have the feeling there's a reason this hasn't been fixed yet? I seem to recall it's been brought up many many times and always been rejected.

 

Arctangent wrote:Use an earlier version of Doom 2. MAP02 was among the random maps that got arbitrarily shifted a few map units during ... 1.9, I think? and due to not doing it perfectly that shotgunner's in that position.

 

But where can I find that? I only have the WADs from Steam.

Gez wrote:[Not ZDoom][IWAD Bug][Fixing this without touching the map would catastrophically break the game by basically making monsters noclip all over the map, and people would complain "bug: every monster is a ghost!" and then we'd have to say "but that one shotgunner in MAP02 is no longer stuck!"]

Heh, yeah. It's either this or that. Think I prefer this.

 

There are a few places in Doom2 a bit like this where you can see the effects of (I assume) last minute tweaking and inadequate testing either for the initial release or by something getting (accidentally?) moved during the updates. e.g. I'm quite sure that all the enemies up on the platform in the big final room of map01 not being central in their sector is the result of this:

 

For whatever reason, the entire map was shifted southwest, closer to the 0, 0 coordinate, in version 1.8. As a result of this, some flats became unaligned. The map was shifted again in version 1.9 to fix the flat alignment. Things were also shifted, but not by the same amounts, meaning they have slightly different positions in relation to the map geometry in each version.

 

https://tcrf.net/Doom_II:_Hell_on_Earth_(PC)/Revisional_Differences#Level_1:_Entryway

[dremor8484]

57 minutes ago, Foxpup said:

...

thanks to your knowledge, i have a chance to fix in the future the revenant graphic glitch if/when i will encounter it again.

 

for the barrel in map02 of doom2, i was able to create a quick fix... taking the original map02 from doom version 1.7a (the barrel is no longer inside a wall)

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/py9izwcfadrpot8/DOOM2_fix_map02.zip/file