Is it possible to create a map with macOS?

[aloysiusfreeman]

I know I know, Macs. 

 

I'm saving up for a PC but for the time being I just have a work-issued MacBook Air. I was curious if its even possible to edit Doom maps in macOS, or if it's not even worth trying.

[esselfortium]

You can use Doom Builder X (but not Ultimate Doom Builder) in a virtual machine like Parallels, virtualizing Windows. I'm not sure if any editors can run natively on macOS, you might be able to get Slade or Eureka running but I'd recommend Doom Builder X if you can.

[aloysiusfreeman]

It looks like Slade can run natively. Would the knowledge of one editor be pretty transferable to another? Because eventually I will get a PC but for the time being I'd just like to tinker around with one on Mac

[LexiMax]

5 hours ago, esselfortium said:

You can use Doom Builder X (but not Ultimate Doom Builder) in a virtual machine like Parallels, virtualizing Windows. I'm not sure if any editors can run natively on macOS, you might be able to get Slade or Eureka running but I'd recommend Doom Builder X if you can.

 

Why doesn't UDB work in Parallels?

[esselfortium]

49 minutes ago, LexiMax said:

 

Why doesn't UDB work in Parallels?

It uses a version of OpenGL that Parallels doesn't support because Apple's OpenGL support is junk.

[s4f3s3x]

I do map on a MacBook, so cheer up, it's totally possible : )

I used Eureka in the beginning, but it's so clunky it makes me feel like chopping wood with a kitchen knife, so I settled instead with Slade3. Not the most comfortable program for mapping either, but it does have everything you need to create a cool map with not too much effort. I'd highly recommend you that over Eureka expecially for the 3D edit mode (quite basic as it seems, but you can do enough with it). You got the plus of having WAD files managing/editing + map creation in one single package and I find it very convenient when it's about importing new graphics, sounds, textures etc... click, instantaneous.

You got downsides too: first and foremost, the version available for MacOs is from 2019 (or 2020?) so quite far behind the current Slade3 and it doesn't look like it's gonna be updated any time soon (if ever...)

Second, the keyboard shortcuts are understood as they counterparts on Windows, meaning you got to re-bind most of them. And there are a lot of them and of first need. Still, it would just take minutes and then it'll be a matter of habit.

Give it a shot!

Edited May 24, 2023 by s4f3s3x

[aloysiusfreeman]

Thanks! That's encouraging to hear. 

 

 

[Asbadagba]

somewhat unrelated, but the official doom.wad and doom2.wad maps were in made in macOS, sort of, they were made on macOS's predecessor.
there was no macOS in the 90's, but there was an os called nextstep which later went defunct,
then apple bought them and used it as the basis for macOS.

doomed (id software's original map editor) only ran on nextstep computers. (there are also unofficial ports of it to macOS)

Edited May 25, 2023 by Asbadagba

[princetontiger]

Even if you can make a map on macOS, one thing I've noticed is some more modern maps lag... MyHouse, for example, really slows down on my macbook air during certain parts.

 

I think Windows is recommended to get the proper map building experience.

[Scorpio]

Unfortunately, at the moment the only current editor on macOS is an outdated version of Slade. However, it provides all the necessary tools to create modern maps. For example, I do all my work on it, and I will not say that I have problems because of this.

[cheezos]

On 5/25/2023 at 12:44 AM, esselfortium said:

It uses a version of OpenGL that Parallels doesn't support because Apple's OpenGL support is junk.

 

Parallels 19 now supports OpenGL 4.1 which is enough to get UDB working, however the program crashes in Visual Mode :(

 

Maybe some OpenGL wizards can understand this error in the crash log?

 

Spoiler

***********SYSTEM INFO***********
OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Pro
GPU: Parallels Display Adapter (WDDM)
UDB: R4091
Platform: x64

********EXCEPTION DETAILS********
Builder: OpenGL error: 1282
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Rendering.RenderDevice.ThrowIfFailed(Boolean result) in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Rendering\RenderDevice.cs:line 156
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Rendering.Renderer3D.RenderVertices() in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Rendering\Renderer3D.cs:line 667
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Rendering.Renderer3D.FinishGeometry() in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Rendering\Renderer3D.cs:line 517
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.BuilderModes.BaseVisualMode.OnRedrawDisplay() in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Plugins\BuilderModes\VisualModes\BaseVisualMode.cs:line 1707
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Windows.MainForm.RedrawDisplay() in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Windows\MainForm.cs:line 1033
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Editing.EditingManager.ChangeMode(EditMode nextmode) in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Editing\EditingManager.cs:line 394
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Actions.Action.Begin() in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Actions\Action.cs:line 269
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Actions.ActionManager.BeginActionByKey(Int32 key, Boolean repeated) in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Actions\ActionManager.cs:line 565
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Actions.ActionManager.KeyPressed(Int32 key) in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Actions\ActionManager.cs:line 515
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Windows.MainForm.MainForm_KeyDown(Object sender, KeyEventArgs e) in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Windows\MainForm.cs:line 1451
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnKeyDown(KeyEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ProcessKeyEventArgs(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmKeyChar(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
   at CodeImp.DoomBuilder.Windows.MainForm.WndProc(Message& m) in c:\build\UltimateDoomBuilder\Source\Core\Windows\MainForm.cs:line 4527
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

***********ACTIONS LOG***********
***********************************************************
ERROR: Builder: OpenGL error: 1282
***********************************************************

 

Edit: UDB doesn't crash if you don't have any Things in your map or you change thing visibility to SPRITE ONLY. Not really a solution but I'm still experimenting.

Edited August 30, 2023 by cheezos
Partial solution

[cheezos]

Does anyone know how to change thing visibility without entering visual mode? SPRITE ONLY is the only way without the editor crashing but it defaults to ON.

[esselfortium]

I would suggest getting in touch with @boris about this, as he's the lead developer of UDB.

[NightRiding Doom]

On 5/27/2023 at 1:11 AM, princetontiger said:

Even if you can make a map on macOS, one thing I've noticed is some more modern maps lag... MyHouse, for example, really slows down on my macbook air during certain parts.

 

I think Windows is recommended to get the proper map building experience.

Ahh... Apple is still salty about doom? lol

[esselfortium]

23 minutes ago, tumedaskihutaja_37685 said:

Ahh... Apple is still salty about doom? lol

???

 

Most community-made Doom tools are maintained primarily for Windows, it's just the way it is.

[NightRiding Doom]

13 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

???

 

Most community-made Doom tools are maintained primarily for Windows, it's just the way it is.

Was meant to be a joke, seeing how Apple likes to lock down every single device they have to the point that even with same devices, swapping parts between them is impossible. And they also like to gloat in front of companies they absorbed or demolished, with a few exceptions. It did not land, unfortunately :(

[cheezos]

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

I would suggest getting in touch with @boris about this, as he's the lead developer of UDB.

I’ll give it a shot. There’s probably little to no support for the ARM version of Windows 11 but I’m determined.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

Eureka doesn't usually get much attention but that's my editor of choice - on Linux and Mac. It's very simple but it does everything you need a map editor to do. There is a youtube series of tutorials by Kris Occhipinti. But the controls are so simple, you can get the hang of it very fast with the handy cheatsheet the website provides. Not extra bells and whistles that would only confuse a beginner. I for one really appreciate the simplicity.
There are of course downsides - most importantly the lack of UDMF and MBF21 support.
Slade also works natively on Linux and Mac, and I hear works very well, and it should have these but I haven't tried it myself.

[LoatharMDPhD]

Yeah, SLADE works on LINUX (He's One of those Assholes, Eh?) as best it can...

[cheezos]

11 hours ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

Eureka doesn't usually get much attention but that's my editor of choice - on Linux and Mac. It's very simple but it does everything you need a map editor to do. There is a youtube series of tutorials by Kris Occhipinti. But the controls are so simple, you can get the hang of it very fast with the handy cheatsheet the website provides. Not extra bells and whistles that would only confuse a beginner. I for one really appreciate the simplicity.
There are of course downsides - most importantly the lack of UDMF and MBF21 support.
Slade also works natively on Linux and Mac, and I hear works very well, and it should have these but I haven't tried it myself.

Yeah the lack of features of the other editors is what's driving me towards UDB. I've tried SLADE but it wouldn't open on macOS.

[aloysiusfreeman]

A couple months since the beginning of this post and I've been using Slade. 

 

It works well when it does. Currently the map I was working on got to the point of constantly crashing and I've gotten a little demoralized so just been working on some sprite work. 

 

 

[macro]

On 9/1/2023 at 1:31 AM, aloysiusfreeman said:

A couple months since the beginning of this post and I've been using Slade. 

 

It works well when it does. Currently the map I was working on got to the point of constantly crashing and I've gotten a little demoralized so just been working on some sprite work. 

 

 

 

As others suggested, you should give a try to Eureka. Some might say that it is clunky, but that happens because these people built muscle memory around a specific editor. I use Eureka as my main editor and I find DoomBuilder difficult to use and bloated.

 

Something that I cannot stand from Doom Builder is the poor quality of the 3D View, to the point of making it useless, at least in terms of aspect ratio and sector illumination. I found that Eureka is the most accurate editor by far and that is a huge selling point for me. I'm not saying that DB is a bad editor though. Please see the photos below:

 

Spoiler

 

[aloysiusfreeman]

@macro

 

I may need to give Eureka a shot. I do remember tinkering with it for a bit and I think with how used to Slade I was by then, I got a bit spooked by it.