What are your least favourite levels in the original DooM games?

[IHave10Shells]

Now this is subjective, and ironically most of these levels which I dislike are from Sandy Petersen, who made one of my favorite video games of all time, Age of Empires.

 

For me completing E3M7 was a pain the first time I tried. The mazey-esque design and that one section where you needed to dodge cacodemons in a tiny room were very annoying to me. I wandered around the level for minutes, even hours. Eventually I just gave up and looked up a playthrough to finish the level. E2M1 and E2M3 are also pretty mediocre. They don't have trash gameplay, but are just really boring, especially after the awesome and dynamic environments of episode 1. Oh yeah and E2M9 is without doubt one of the worst level in the entire game. Now, credit where credit is due, this level was the first to encourage monster infighting and I do appreciate it for that, but literally everything about this map is underwhelming. The design is boring, the map is stupidly short, and the monsters can be killed with ease. This level is also very low effort compared to the other secret levels in the game. E1M9 has fun action and slightly interesting design, and E3M9 is an absolutely amazing and clever secret level. Also, I would like to talk about E2M7. I actually don't hate this map, but finding all of the secrets was kind of a pain.

 

Now I don't have enough experience with TNT/Plutonia to critique their levels, but I do have some gripes with some of DooM 2's levels.

 

Of course, I kind of hate Downtown already, like everyone else does, but another level which I despise is The Factory. It's just.... so bland and ugly. Coming off from the fairly experimental, but clean Spaceport levels, this looks incredibly unappealing.

 

So that was the end of my rant. What do your least favorite levels?

[dasho]

 

[Trustanus]

I’ve never understood the dislike of Doom IWAD maps. I’ve played them so much that they all have stuck with me. With that said, while the 2 secret Doom 2 maps are a fun Easter egg, I feel it was a missed opportunity for 3 reasons:

• They could have made an interesting interpretation of Castle Wolfenstein in the Doom engine here. Instead of just being the levels from Wolf 3D, they could’ve added in more Doom-fitting art for these areas, remaking Castle Wolfenstein with it fitting more in like with the doom aesthetic. First secret level could be the castle, Doomguy is captured in the holding cell, and the goal is to escape the castle and defeat the Spider Mastermind guarding the castle entrance that you must exit from. So basically an abridged version of E1 of Wolfenstein 3D that feels like the Nazi part of Hell. Could’ve had the SS Guard look more fitting to Doom as well, with the SMG he uses still. He would replace former humans for the two secret levels, while the demons are still intact. A secret passage leads to the second secret level, which could be “Beyond Castle Wolfenstein”. It could be set in an underground bunker below the castle, where you must take out a cyberdemon in the end to be able to exit the bunker. Perhaps the keycards in this level would be optional, and finding all 3 unlocks stacked doors that lead to a rigged switch that will drop a crushing ceiling into the room they cyberdemon is waiting in and you can kill him without having to actually fight him or the demons guarding him in there either. This would be a reference to BCW where you use a bomb to assassinate Hitler. 

 

• They could’ve used these level slots in the same way they did with Doom. Special maps that have unique music not heard elsewhere in the game, and the maps could be tough. Perhaps they could’ve made the second secret level exit the only exit for the first secret map and the second map could be more like a boss fight style level. 
   
• I think either of these, a more interesting Wolfenstein secret or a secret side doom 2-related mission unrelated to Wolfenstein, would be better than having to censor these maps for rerelease. Having them remade could make better use of not having to need swastikas and whatnot to pass the censors and the original secret maps could be provided as additional PWADS. 

[openroadracer]

MAP24: "The Chasm". Good (BLEEP)ing CHRIST, that level's a pain in the ass. The razor-thin catwalks make it effectively impossible to use the speed that you've become used to by that point.

[Devalaous]

• Hell Keep. So bad that id replaced it themselves with a much better map in the Jaguar port.
• Nirvana. Bland and so short its over before I know it
• Baron's Den. Utterly forgettable map that I regularly forget exists each and every playthrough. Even Habitat and Quarry are more memorable and fun than this.
• The Omen. Whether its after the hardest map in the megawad, or after the secret hard duo, this map always falls flat for me and just sort of....exists. Never enjoy it, nor have I enjoyed any tribute to it thats shown up in Plutonia ripoffs

[IHave10Shells]

8 hours ago, Trustanus said:

I’ve never understood the dislike of Doom IWAD maps. I’ve played them so much that they all have stuck with me. With that said, while the 2 secret Doom 2 maps are a fun Easter egg, I feel it was a missed opportunity for 3 reasons:

• They could have made an interesting interpretation of Castle Wolfenstein in the Doom engine here. Instead of just being the levels from Wolf 3D, they could’ve added in more Doom-fitting art for these areas, remaking Castle Wolfenstein with it fitting more in like with the doom aesthetic. First secret level could be the castle, Doomguy is captured in the holding cell, and the goal is to escape the castle and defeat the Spider Mastermind guarding the castle entrance that you must exit from. So basically an abridged version of E1 of Wolfenstein 3D that feels like the Nazi part of Hell. Could’ve had the SS Guard look more fitting to Doom as well, with the SMG he uses still. He would replace former humans for the two secret levels, while the demons are still intact. A secret passage leads to the second secret level, which could be “Beyond Castle Wolfenstein”. It could be set in an underground bunker below the castle, where you must take out a cyberdemon in the end to be able to exit the bunker. Perhaps the keycards in this level would be optional, and finding all 3 unlocks stacked doors that lead to a rigged switch that will drop a crushing ceiling into the room they cyberdemon is waiting in and you can kill him without having to actually fight him or the demons guarding him in there either. This would be a reference to BCW where you use a bomb to assassinate Hitler. 

 

• They could’ve used these level slots in the same way they did with Doom. Special maps that have unique music not heard elsewhere in the game, and the maps could be tough. Perhaps they could’ve made the second secret level exit the only exit for the first secret map and the second map could be more like a boss fight style level. 
   
• I think either of these, a more interesting Wolfenstein secret or a secret side doom 2-related mission unrelated to Wolfenstein, would be better than having to censor these maps for rerelease. Having them remade could make better use of not having to need swastikas and whatnot to pass the censors and the original secret maps could be provided as additional PWADS. 

This would actually have been really cool! Having a special linedef property on a secret level and a few more Wolfenstein enemies would have been very neat for mappers! I also think they could have changed the text screen of the secret levels to actually feel like you were facing all the nazis that were killed in Wolf3D/SOD.

[Maximum Matt]

Habitat is all.

[Jayextee]

Halls of the Damned is absolutely wretched and if I'm playing casually and die there, I will not retry. I will not play any more Ultimate DOOM for the rest of the day. It showed me its ass and I am done.

[IHave10Shells]

2 hours ago, Jayextee said:

Halls of the Damned is absolutely wretched and if I'm playing casually and die there, I will not retry. I will not play any more Ultimate DOOM for the rest of the day. It showed me its ass and I am done.

Eh, for me it's less 'this level is really a pain in the ass' and more 'ooh spooky'. I think it has a good and neat look but yeah, the monsters are are VERY annoying.

 

[zokum]

The maps I dislike in Doom 2 are map21, map12, to some extent map18 and map25. 21 is by far the worst map in Doom 2. A bunch of simple disjointed room connected with odd hallways or teleporters. Map12 is just terribly bland. It doesn't offer much interesting and some of the areas like the BFG area and the teleport trap are especially bad. Map12 is a bit better on coop. The addition of the Spider Mastermind makes it a bit more scary and difficult. The outside is a lot more unsafe and the mix of the big spider in the open area and the small baby ones up top works for me. Map18 has a lot of random wtfness. The main area of the map works ok, but most of the side areas are fairly meh. The opening area has some really screwed up sky rendering bugs. With better texturing and a bit better design on the side areas, this map could have been something much cooler. Map25 has an illogical progression with cheap teleporters. It's also underdetailed and fairly nonsensical. A cavern full of torches is very dark. Secrets without items on higher difficulties. This one feels like an early layout draft. This map received a few updates from 1.666 to 1.9, but more should have been done.

I'm not too fond of map13 either. The idea is good, but some of the buildings aren't good enough. There's some decent game play here, but it is hidden amongst all the shite.

[Darkcrafter07]

Map24 ffs. This one is not just bad, it's located in between of fairly nice and atmospheric looking maps. You were on the road to magical worlds, paving your way deep into mystical locations and boom, a crappy techno map. It's hard to play, especially in the end, the music is just as boring as visuals and gameplay.

[S4turn]

Probably e4m2, killed all my motivation for wanting to play Thy Flesh Consumed tbh

[doomlayman]

My favorite original Doom maps are:

• Episode 1, map 2 "Nuclear Plant" because it's 99% techbase
• Episode 4, map 3 "Sever the Wicked" because for me it's intuitive and full of action
• Doom 2 map 16 "The Suburbs" because of the minimalist design
• TNT Evilution map 12: "Crater" because of the space-travel background

[wertercatt]

Current least favorite is E2M4: Deimos Lab.

 

I've had to restart it twice on my blind(ish) UV Pistol Start run due to running out of ammo in the circular room with the two Barons of Hell.

[TheSlipgateStudios]

Most of the Doom 2 maps are either meh or bad (Ahem Ahem The Chasm Ahem)

[Reisal]

Doom: Perfect Hatred. All of that damaging floors and platforming, more nightmarish for pistol starters.
Doom 2: The Chasm, The Factory, Nirvana. What was Sandy Petersen thinking on creating these pieces of garbage?
Evilution: None I can think of, haven't played IWAD maps that much.

Plutonia: Hunted. No automap, arch-viles only, a bloody maze. Could've been a more productive map for this slot.

[TheCarsEdge]

the other day i was replaying ultimate doom, just because i could, and after finishing up the shores of hell i skipped all of inferno and went directly to thy flesh consumed

genuinely most episode 3 maps are meh, except for house of pain (house of pain goes super hard)

for doom 2 when i play it i usually stop at the waste tunnels 

 

i haven't played tnt or plutonia nearly as much as the other two, but i can confidently say that anything after map 3 in tnt has me sleepy

[xScavengerWolfx]

Least favorite levels in OG Doom. Would have to be most of episode 3 of Ultimate doom. Lame, boring, slugged, ok house of pain is pretty good but all the other levels are not. 

[IHave10Shells]

Just now, xScavengerWolfx said:

Least favorite levels in OG Doom. Would have to be most of episode 3 of Ultimate doom. Lame, boring, slugged, ok house of pain is pretty good but all the other levels are not. 

Eh, I liked Pandemonium and Mt. Erubus. The rest were pretty mediocre though.

[Firedust]

E3M7 by far. What a trainwreck of a level.

[doomlayman]

On 6/2/2023 at 6:19 PM, TheSlipgateStudios said:

Most of the Doom 2 maps are either meh or bad (Ahem Ahem The Chasm Ahem)

 

I don't know to say if most but for many, I think I agree.

[zokum]

People have really different ideas about what is a good level or not. I've never had any problems with e3m7. It has a strong and consistent theme, and it has plenty of room for dodging monsters if you are low on ammo until you find more ammo. I understand that a lot of people have problems finding out where to go. This is one of those maps where memory plays an important role. As long as you manage to find all the teleporters, you at most need to visit them twice. It is a type of map some players excel at, while others find it extremely frustrating.

 

What Sandy could and probably should have done was to mark it destination of a teleporter with a specific object, colored torch, evil eye and so on. And then mark the teleporter 'buildings' in a similar manner. Then you could have gone and looked for the teleporter with the correct thing that shows you where you end up, without having to go into it. That would also make it easier to remember, since the order might be: green torch, red torch, blue torch, evil eye, beating heart on pedestal for the correct order to take them in.

Doom needed to have maps that do things slightly differently, that try to do new things. If everything looked and played like episode 1, but with different texture themes, the game would be fairly boring, even if the individual levels are better, on their own.

That's why I'm not that big of a fan of episode 2. It often feels like this is something we have seen before. Episode 3 is a much bolder design. A good example would be e3m6. Nothing else in the game is even remotely close to this map, design-wise. Doom has 4-6 maps I would think of as outdoor maps. E3m6, e3m2, e3m8, e2m8 and to some extent e3m1/e3m9. The boss maps are a special case, as they are more of an arena, and not a complex outside environment.

Secret maps in Doom were a treat to find, and felt like they fitted into the game. In Doom 2 the secret maps are more like easter eggs and jokes. Map32 is especially weak, since it reuses the idea, and adds even more wtfery with the dead Keens. The Doom palette could easily have incorporated the nazi officers and the dogs in a reasonable manner. That would have made the maps better. The current version just seems a bit lazy. Id probably had a plan where they wanted to replicate them better, the sliding doors etc, but it seems they gave up and just made the bare minimum.