epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) About: This is a full Ultimate Doom megawad (36 maps), built in the boom format with the OTEX texture pack, slightly (via DEHACKED) visually and behaviorally modified doom1 monsters & even a custom monster of my own design, with a focus on slaughter combat and (often) Sunder like detailing, lighting & overall map design. It started life as a solo megawad by me and was later converted to a community project. The project then got itself a composer that got to work composing the project’s music and a few mappers that started working on the maps, though I still ended up making 80% of all the maps alone & 80% of a separate soundtrack out of songs from other WADs & games in spite of this (this soundtrack will be included purely as a bonus, alongside the official originally composed soundtrack). All and all it has been in development for close to 2 years and has seen me invest an estimated 1000 hours of my time into making it. By my estimate I'd say others (listed in credits below) probaly chipped in about 100 hours all together as well. I hope that's not an underestimation (please forgive me if it is...). All and all that means this megawad has had about 1100 hours poured into it's development. I sincerly hope therefore that you enjoy it! General information: -IWAD: Ultimate Doom -Format: Boom: Doom (Doom Format) -Singleplayer: Yes - all maps (tested) -Multiplayer (Co-Op): Yes - all maps (tested) -Deathmatch: Yes – only the following 5 maps: E1M3, E1M7, E2M3, E3M6, E4M2 (untested) -Resource (texture) pack: OTEX (https://files.teamouse.net/doom/OTEX11D1.wad - this version has been slightly modified to work in doom1) -Skill levels: implimented (monster count decreases with (lowering of) skill level, while amount of ammo pickups, health, armor & powerups remains the same) -Multiplayer only things & monsters: Yes, but not everywhere... -DEHACKED: Yes Tested on (with): Various versions of gzdoom (4.2.4a,4.6.1, 4.7.1, 4.8.1, 4.8.2), prboom+ (v2.6.2), DSDA (versions 0.24.3 & 0.25.6) {all the levels weren't tested on all the listed ports and versions - all of them were tested in one of the listed versions of GZDoom while some were also tested elsewhere..., also this is by no means a complete list as these are just the source ports I used...} -custom sprites & sounds: Yes -custom textures: only the EYM420 flats & wall texture -Mod compatibility: compatible with mods that don't change the monsters or decorations (hanging bodies/legs, corpses, gore...) in any way (i.e. HUD & weapon mods or similar - This won't work in say Brutal Doom, Smooth Doom, Dead Marine or similar...) -Length: aprox. 17 hours (my best in game UV max time estimate) -Monster count (all 36 maps combined): easy (ITYTD & HNTR) => 25000, medium (HMP) => 37500, hard (UV & Nightmare) => 50000 Download: Cleanout: Original soundtrack - ost (+ all the maps) (composed specifically for this project): [Download link removed] Cleanout: Un-original soundtrack - ust (+ all the maps) (songs selected for the maps from other WADs and games): [Download link removed] Besides one of the 2 WAD's with their respective soundtracks up above please also download the modified OTEX texture pack available here: https://files.teamouse.net/doom/OTEX11D1.wad and run the 2 as described below (under the the section called Play information): Play information: If you're playing in GZDoom, then just select OTEX & the wad, drag them in and choose Ultimate Doom as your IWAD in the IWAD selection pop up (load order doesn’t matter) If however you're playing in Boom ports, then select OTEX first, the wad second and your Ultimate Doom copy third (or select Ultimate Doom as the IWAD if you’re using a launcher…) Also JUMP & CROUCH SHOULD BE DISABLED, freelook on the other hand should be fine (this is an enourmous Wad with lots of long levels & inspite of making most of it and playing the rest my memory can only hold so much, so if there are any shot switches that you can shot from where you're not suppose to, than I can't think of them - doesn't mean they're not there though...) Levels were designed for pistol start but some attention was devoted to making sure that the WAD isn't unbalanced on continious play (more powerfull weapons don't show up too early...) Disclaimers 1. The Deathmatch is completely untested & is therefore potentially unbalanced, unfun, weird or may not even work properly (it was very much an afterthought…) 2. Some levels, still aren't fully tested and may therefore still contain errors/softlocks and/or balance issues Story: Spoiler You start off as a marine on active duty on earth's moon base while a teleporting experiment attempts to link up the earth itself with another moon base, set up on the Martian moon of Deimos. Unfortunatly however, this experiment, much unlike the one that linked up the earth with it's moon base (that you are stationed on currently), goes horribly wrong... The Deimos base, along with the entirety of Deimos itself, gets pulled out of Martian orbit and sucked into hell itself, eventually ending up suspended above hell's surface (just like Deimos from doom1/the ultimate doom) and the facility on earth attempting the teleportation experiment quickly gets overrun by demons as more and more hellspawn pours through the portal. These invading demons then quickly find their way to the teleporters linking up earth to it's moon base, start their invasion of it and plung you into the frey... Screenshots: Spoiler Credits: -P1M1 (E1M1): Map: @Herr Dethnout & epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: @Proxy-MIDI (previously R0rque. - this is also how he's referred to in the megawad's in-map credits...) -P1M2 (E1M2): Map: R0rque. (Proxy-MIDI), (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P1M3 (E1M3): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P1M4 (E1M4): Map: @noob_killer012345678 & epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P1M5 (E1M5): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P1M6 (E1M6): Map: @AnArchaicApparatus, (original soundtrack) Music: AnArchaicApparatus -P1M7 (E1M7): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P1M8 (E1M8): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P1M9 (E1M9): Map: / (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M1 (E2M1): Map: AnArchaicApparatus, (original soundtrack) Music: AnArchaicApparatus -P2M2 (E2M2): Map: @DavidN, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M3 (E2M3): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M4 (E2M4): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M5 (E2M5): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M6 (E2M6): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M7 (E2M7): Map: @Philnemba & epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M8 (E2M8): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P2M9 (E2M9): Map: R0rque., (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M1 (E3M1): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M2 (E3M2): Map: Herr Dethnout & epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M3 (E3M3): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M4 (E3M4): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M5 (E3M5): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M6 (E3M6): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M7 (E3M7): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M8 (E3M8): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P3M9 (E3M9): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M1 (E4M1): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M2 (E4M2): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M3 (E4M3): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M4 (E4M4): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M5 (E4M5): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M6 (E4M6): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M7 (E4M7): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M8 (E4M8): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) -P4M9 (E4M9): Map: epicyolomaster420, (original soundtrack) Music: Proxy-MIDI (R0rque.) I would also like to extend a special thanks to @Proxy-MIDI for making almost all of the megawad's soundtrack, @AnArchaicApparatus for making the rest of it (just the 2 songs that play in his 2 maps) & shading the menu tittlescreen & tittlepic, @DavidN for making sure that the WAD is compatible with OTEX even in boom ports (which it wouldn't be without his work, due to ultimate doom and OTEX not playing nice with one another…) & @Insane_Gazebo for his playtests of my maps, the countless tips he gave me on how to make my maps look nicer & just outright making the mapset that acted as this megawad's main inspiration – Sunder (the megawad wouldn't have been anywhere near as nice looking (or dare I say Sunder like) without his input…). Also big thanks to @boom_compatible for his tests and fixes of the maps on multiplayer Co-Op before this wads debut on Thursday Night Survival! The Co-Op would have never recieved any attention if it weren't for him. Besides these playtests I have also (so far) recieved playtests from: @Thingie, @obake , @jgs1989 & @quakis. And speaking of tips that helped me make this megawad what it currently is I would also like to call out @Nirvana and his combat encounter design & doom enemy placement youtube tutorials (these ones: Spoiler ), as they were a very interesting watch and really helped me out with taking my combat to the next level. Also if this megawad becomes popular I also wouldn't object to being featured in an evening with Nirvana episode. Just sayin... Link to development thread: Trailer: https://clipchamp.com/watch/P4pwxQeJudD Edited January 6, 2024 by epicyolomaster420 28 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 I've just found a progression breaking error in E1M5 (had a switch tied to a blue skull when it really should have been to a blue keycard), resolved said error in the editor in both version & updated both zip's, so if anyone's downloaded the previous zips already please redownload now (from OP)! 0 Share this post Link to post
Proxy-MIDI Posted June 1, 2023 I'll finally test that in its entirety ! Let's see what this megawad is made of ! >:-) Sleep well @epicyolomaster420 ! You've done a great job ! ;) 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Proxy-MIDI said: I'll finally test that in its entirety ! Let's see what this megawad is made of ! >:-) Sleep well @epicyolomaster420 ! You've done a great job ! ;) I will, but first a few more thing: I just realized I forgot to explain the whole phase/episode thing so here goes: Phase1 corresponds to episode1. That’s why in the credits list it says P1Mx instead of E1Mx Phase2 corresponds to episode2. That’s why in the credits list it says P2Mx instead of E2Mx Phase3 corresponds to episode3. That is why in the credits list it says P3Mx instead of E3Mx AND lastly Episode 4 is instead of being called phase4 called the bonus levels as it’s technically not a complete episode (5 levels instead of 9) and because it also doesn’t have a story. Also about the story I’ve just realized I had forgotten about it when I was writing the OP so I’ve inserted it in now Now back on topic: On top of this I also realized that I haven’t named the phases yet on the episode selection screen so I’ve went into both versions of the wad included the names & updated the zip again. If no errors are found this should be my final update for now. Please redownload therefore if you want to see the names pop up! 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 Made another update, but this time only to the ust version and even that only to redo the changes I had already made into the wad in the editor before than making a save in Slade immediatly after that, without closing & reopening the wad first - word of advice: don't do that (if you open the file in Slade before making changes using UDB or any other editor apart from Slade's inbuilt one, like I did and then make a save in Slade after saving in your editor than Slade will fuck all those changes right up. It does not refresh...) 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 Made yet another minor ust update. Turns out I forgot some credits in the credits map (E4M3) - some I somehow failed to remember putting in in my previous update... 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, s4f3s3x said: The screenshots looks terrific : ) Thanks! Also there's a ton more amazing areas in the wad which look just as nice that I also could have screenshoted, but chose not too cause well... spoilers, so that's 1 more reason for you (& everyone else interested) to play & discover them for yourself! 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 I'm not sure if you can all tell this, but I worked really hard on these maps (& everyone else probably did too), so every compliment makes it feel more worth it! 1 Share this post Link to post
s4f3s3x Posted June 1, 2023 @epicyolomaster420 It definitely shows. I would play these maps, but I don't like Sunder so that as a reference for the project kinda turns me off. But again, your work is visually very appealing so I might give it a try on ITYTD : ) 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, s4f3s3x said: I might give it a try on ITYTD : ) Great & also this reminds me that I still hadn't mentioned that this wad also impliments dificulty settings (and in a quite substancial way monster count wise) so I'm going to put that in still! 0 Share this post Link to post
quakis Posted June 3, 2023 Just wanted to throw a congrats on getting the first release candidate out the door. As I've been following many projects to keep the tracker up to date, it's honestly nice when I see one of the older projects get out the door. I've highlighted this one under recently released in the tracker thread, so hopefully that will help draw some eyes toward this release thread while it's listed there. 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 3, 2023 49 minutes ago, quakis said: Just wanted to throw a congrats on getting the first release candidate out the door. As I've been following many projects to keep the tracker up to date, it's honestly nice when I see one of the older projects get out the door. I've highlighted this one under recently released in the tracker thread, so hopefully that will help draw some eyes toward this release thread while it's listed there. Thanks! Also if at all you (or anyone else who's reading this) see yourself(ves) getting curious what these maps are like, try them out. I encourage it (I worked incredibly hard on them so the more plays I get the better)! 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 4, 2023 First video I've seen on youtube so far that features Cleanout: (skip to 0:06:31 to see Cleanout's segment) 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 9, 2023 (edited) I just updated the zips again. I did some testing and found yet more progression breaking issues in P1M5 (legit no idea WTF I was doing with that level - or then again maybe it was me basicaly merging 2 smaller levels into 1 in there & progression being more of a bitch to sort out after that idk...) & some other issues in other levels and fixed them. I also (and this is a huge one) almost managed to finish the previously still very unfinished P3M8, though I still have a few hours to put into it & still need to do more testing before I'd be comfortable calling this a full RC1. Still these are about as close as this project's going to get to a full RC1 right now, so please redownload everyone! Edited June 9, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 fixed typo 2 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 13, 2023 Sharing a feedback video on the first 2 levels of Cleanout's first episode curtesy of @A Handsome Fridge. Due to some inproperly set OBS settings the video does only show the top left & some of the middle portion of the screen but still alerted me to a softlock in the first level (which I've now fixed in the version of the wad I will soon be uploading as the full RC1) and is still Cleanout content so it's worth a watch (if you don't mind spoilers...) 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 16, 2023 I've updated the zips again. It's still not the full RC1 as I haven't had time to test the final level yet but I have at least finished it... 2 Share this post Link to post
quakis Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Gave this a whirl today. I'd like to note that I started playing through Sunder some weeks back and slowly been plodding my way through it but haven't yet finished it, only made it up to MAP06 so far. Do excuse me if I miss any particular homages or similarities seeing as Cleanout takes influence from that project. For now I've played through Episode 1: Moon Mayhem, enjoyed my time with it and taking a short break before continuing. I'll post again once I get around to Episode 2. Here's some of my intial thoughts and some of the issues I came across while playing. Play method: UV, Pistol Start, GZDOOM E1M1: Technology Mantaince Spoiler It’s a short map that makes it clear what style of wad to expect going in, starting off rather tame to allow players a chance to grab hold of the shotgun, but soon escalates the numbers higher by each room encounter. The yellow key Imp room works as a nice distraction while these Cacos with a -fast modifier and some Lost Souls spawn in from behind the fence to backstab players too focused on what lies ahead. Chaingun can make good work of the Imp spillage. A crowd of Shotgunners are having a party inside the prior room, taking pot shots every chance they get when re-opening the door. They serve as a nice ammo reserve once shells get low. The second onslaught just after opening up the yellow key door pushed me back into the main room where some modified version of the Barons join the fight. Not sure on their official name for now. These guys shoot a double barrage of projectiles that help change up the usual pace and increase their threat. Other enemies continue to serve as a distraction from the bigger problem, but this fight can boil down to a lot of shotgun slog if players don’t choose to peek into the next room to find a rocket launcher to help ease the pacing. I only did so when the notion of the fight being slow came to mind, otherwise pistol-starters may find themselves equiped with a useless weapon after the battle because the exit is nearby. It's a good start that introduces the horde style gameplay and new variations on existing enemies. E1M2: Blood Factory Spoiler Don't have too much to say about this one. It’s much more tame than the starting level and seems to focus much of its combat around closet ambushes and exploiting tight spaces with its enemy placement, a little easier to manage where a Berserk pack comes in handy to deal with any spectres/pinkies. Beyond the blue key door has an unusually tall yet compact corridor looping back around, almost as if there's something more to this section, which turns out true once the final arena shows itself as the middle section opens up and skull barricades block up the exits. Some unpegged doortraks in these two locations should it be of concern: E1M3: Slime Base Spoiler Design is on the rough side where texturing could be polished up but the overall concept isn’t too bad in itself. It does lean a little too much on large waves of enemies teleporting onto the scene during every major beat that tends to slow down the progression of an otherwise short level. There’s a secret plasma gun stash to get through certain fights quicker, Lost Souls and Cacos primarily taking time to die and there’s plenty of them. Can encourage taking the safe option by just poking at stuff from doorways without really engaging with them, but that’s in favour of the player to get around avoiding the Lost Souls from zipping over into the distance to slow down combat even further. I actually had a similar distaste for that from Sunder’s MAP05, not quite as bad here though. I liked the secret exit location and love how it's possible to reach it within around 20secs from the starting room by jumping out the window using the nearby stairs. I think out of the entire episode this one is probably the weakest entry comparitive to the other levels available. It can be sluggish to get through, fights aren’t too difficult on their own, just drawn out further than they need to with beefier enemies and the visuals do lack some polish especially in regards to texturing. E1M9: Coming out of the God Damned Walls Spoiler Moving on from the last level’s critique, it’s not all doom and gloom as I really liked this one conceptually. First off the pacing was already off to a good start as we’re given a rocket launcher within minutes and tons of ammo to boot. The hordes we’re up against have a nice quirk in that they’re coming out of “solid” structures, phasing through them like ghosts which makes for a visual change from the usual teleport method, used to good effect once the pinkies pour into a corridor. During the final little Cybie fight, I let him deal with most of the Lost Souls while I baited shots into groups. It didn’t occur to me until a very close call that I wasn’t safe from his rockets using the central building between us, forgetting about its properties and made for a quick reality check that messes with your usual senses during combat. One of the more memorable levels so far, only wish it wasn’t reserved to a secret level slot since it works really well as a mid episode gauntlet. It’s not too drawn out and having a rocket launcher on hand for most the level just makes this a fun, enjoyable romp all in. E1M4: Operation Luna Spoiler Large portions of this level are a bit too square and uninteresting for my tastes and there’s a fair number of larger spaces for combat but the visuals don’t quite fill this space up in interesting ways, simply serving the gameplay more than anything. Infighting is pretty vital to cut down enemies due to the lack of stronger weapons until a little later, there’s a RL and PG to thin out herds but there’s still a ton of shotgun combat involved that doesn't seem too engaging. Monster-only portals were also used during an earlier fight to shift Pinkies around the room to sneak up behind the player to break the combat up a bit. Those cracks on the floor that cause this have a stylish flair to them that we only see at this location. Maybe similar and other motifs of hell’s influence elsewhere would do wonders to enhance the otherwise monotonous grey and boxy tech base look. Enjoyed the Plasma Gun bait though. E1M4 introduces another new Baron variant, we'll call him a Bruiser for simplicity sake, who looks like a smaller Cyberdemon. Sadly the guy didn’t put up much of a fight because he was too focused on taking out everyone else and the huge room makes circling strafing him a breeze. Not quite the arena suited to show off his prowess but this was just a taste of a new foe who'll pop up more often in later maps. I think some Cacos can be trimmed back here, there's two just loitering in that twisty corridor that could be removed without missing much. They don’t pose a threat and simply exist to slow the player down without good reason. The silent portal was a neat gimmick to transition between two areas, which can also be used to exploit the Lost Souls on the other side from causing any harm. E1M5: Industrial District Spoiler Probably one of the more varied and longer levels so far that really reminds me of old school 90s style of levels and I quite enjoyed it a lot. There were parts that seemed a little tight for space during the first portion but the map opens out and becomes a non-linear key hunt with more chill combat against monster mosh pits and plenty of weaponry choice which was pretty fun overall. Those new Spidermaster minds have an intimidating look, more so when their minigun shreds everything to pieces. They’re still not much of a threat with a plasma gun on hand but they’re infinitely more terrifying if they manage to hit and might be some good level hazards further in, only time will tell. Didn’t realise it during the secret level but even the Cyberdemons are faster. Issue #1 - Here’s a HOM and misaligned switch? The first lift, right of the starting drop: Issue #2 - Two of these Bruisers were stuck in these closets, they couldn't walk outside: Issue #2b - Late edit: Forgot to mention I noticed these guys are also possibly missing a firing frame? Or at least for me they'll vanish for a split second between shooting. Issue #3 - Also the final door only opens once – I assumed it was an exit so went out to finish some loose ends and came back unable to open it back up. E1M6: Inguisition Den Spoiler I’ve been enjoying the soundtrack so far but this track in particular caught my attention, its fluctuating pacing doesn’t let you ease into any particular rhythm, neither fully calm or fully fast, like a constant adrenaline rush to keep you on edge. I’m also liking how this level looks too, got a unique dark and haunting vibe about it. I do love how much of a trickster its style of gameplay has going on, as if the mapper is just laughing at the player's expense by constantly messing with them, baiting them and taking away the treat, causing disorientation and just making me question what is even going on. Memorable little experience and that fake out ending switch just seals the whole atmosphere for me. Since I like to go through the maps real quick a second time to write down notes with monsters turned off, I actually had trouble progressing but didn’t do much different than my first attempt. I just could not find that darned Red Skull key anywhere and thought I was going mad. Turns out the RSK is set to HARD only and my second run defaulted to HMP so it doesn’t appear making the level unplayable on lower difficulties? Also found some missing textures for the record: E1M7: The Lava Lake Spoiler Reimagining of the finale to the original Episode 1 from Doom, this time dialing the scale of the whole thing up several notches, going for something grander in scale and more akin to a modernised interpretation of the same level as the skill levels of Doomers have increased. Even so, while enemy counts have increased, supplies are incredibly generous including several blue spheres armours handed out like free muffins. Almost makes some of the secrets with them redundant but all the more power for myself I guess. These help to keep you in the fight for longer but some of the large epics can be circle strafed pretty easily allowing the barons to clean up shop while the player keeps focus on activating switches, letting the hordes pour in and finishing up the rest. I opted to just leave the arena when I could because I didn’t have great firepower on hand which is where the infighting became invaluable. I intended to come back with the plasma gun once I figured out how to snatch it up, but then came across a lonesome Cyberdemon baring down the hallway. I had a naughty idea and lured it into the portal, followed after it and let him do most of the work. The large star room is much more foreboding and dangerous with the three Spiders playing sniper with their nastier guns, I somehow managed to plasma all three within the Blur spheres time limit saving me so much trouble. The last Cyber fight wasn’t too bad either with a BFG on hand. I still can’t 2 shot these guys normally but they didn’t pose much of a threat in the end as there’s tons of cover to work with. Pretty enjoyable penultimate level overall though and had a blast. E1M8: Torture House Spoiler Another reimagining for the finale fight, a homage toward Doom2’s Suburbs, split into two distinct halves. Hunting down keys and switches within a small building and then a massive onslaught of every kind of enemy. This scenario can take several weird directions not entirely in the favour of players as the area surrounding the building becomes an impenetrable meat wall as foes just pour in, taking up ground and air space. Several Spiders can help out from the opposite side but it’s densely packed. I tried a few approaches. First was to fight them off at the door way but it soon became apparent I just wasn’t going to have enough ammo to chew through them all to make a path. The second idea was to encourage infighting from the YSK balcony but this was taking far too long and was getting kinda boring doing it this way and my efforts didn’t contribute much as the door was still jam packed. My final idea was to simply brute force my way out until I succeeded, making a save just before the door and pushing forward with the plasma gun. A battle of attrition until I made it outside. Took maybe ten attempts give or take? It would be nice if there was a teleporter that leads you outside behind the horde you can either choose to take or not. When I got outside the fight was much more interesting being able to take it on properly. I did waste the Invulnerability sphere thinking I’d need it for an ambush right after grabbing the BK, that's on me for not leaving it until I needed it though, oh well. Could have been handy here but wasn’t necessary to win, every other enemy took care of the Spiders for me leaving one behind. Wasn’t much a fan of the maze, but it’s a short sequence and doesn’t drag on so nothing that grinds my gears too badly. Found a minor HOM in the BK building, just left of my weapon: Edited June 17, 2023 by quakis Forgot to mention another issue I came across 3 Share this post Link to post
Herr Dethnout Posted June 17, 2023 Ho, ho, so it's finally out! Congrats on everybody involved! I will play it soon to see whats ups :P 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, quakis said: Gave this a whirl today. I'd like to note that I started playing through Sunder some weeks back and slowly been plodding my way through it but haven't yet finished it, only made it up to MAP06 so far. Do excuse me if I miss any particular homages or similarities seeing as Cleanout takes influence from that project. For now I've played through Episode 1: Moon Mayhem, enjoyed my time with it and taking a short break before continuing. I'll post again once I get around to Episode 2. Here's some of my intial thoughts and some of the issues I came across while playing. Play method: UV, Pistol Start, GZDOOM E1M1: Technology Mantaince Hide contents It’s a short map that makes it clear what style of wad to expect going in, starting off rather tame to allow players a chance to grab hold of the shotgun, but soon escalates the numbers higher by each room encounter. The yellow key Imp room works as a nice distraction while these Cacos with a -fast modifier and some Lost Souls spawn in from behind the fence to backstab players too focused on what lies ahead. Chaingun can make good work of the Imp spillage. A crowd of Shotgunners are having a party inside the prior room, taking pot shots every chance they get when re-opening the door. They serve as a nice ammo reserve once shells get low. The second onslaught just after opening up the yellow key door pushed me back into the main room where some modified version of the Barons join the fight. Not sure on their official name for now. These guys shoot a double barrage of projectiles that help change up the usual pace and increase their threat. Other enemies continue to serve as a distraction from the bigger problem, but this fight can boil down to a lot of shotgun slog if players don’t choose to peek into the next room to find a rocket launcher to help ease the pacing. I only did so when the notion of the fight being slow came to mind, otherwise pistol-starters may find themselves equiped with a useless weapon after the battle because the exit is nearby. It's a good start that introduces the horde style gameplay and new variations on existing enemies. E1M2: Blood Factory Hide contents Don't have too much to say about this one. It’s much more tame than the starting level and seems to focus much of its combat around closet ambushes and exploiting tight spaces with its enemy placement, a little easier to manage where a Berserk pack comes in handy to deal with any spectres/pinkies. Beyond the blue key door has an unusually tall yet compact corridor looping back around, almost as if there's something more to this section, which turns out true once the final arena shows itself as the middle section opens up and skull barricades block up the exits. Some unpegged doortraks in these two locations should it be of concern: E1M3: Slime Base Hide contents Design is on the rough side where texturing could be polished up but the overall concept isn’t too bad in itself. It does lean a little too much on large waves of enemies teleporting onto the scene during every major beat that tends to slow down the progression of an otherwise short level. There’s a secret plasma gun stash to get through certain fights quicker, Lost Souls and Cacos primarily taking time to die and there’s plenty of them. Can encourage taking the safe option by just poking at stuff from doorways without really engaging with them, but that’s in favour of the player to get around avoiding the Lost Souls from zipping over into the distance to slow down combat even further. I actually had a similar distaste for that from Sunder’s MAP05, not quite as bad here though. I liked the secret exit location and love how it's possible to reach it within around 20secs from the starting room by jumping out the window using the nearby stairs. I think out of the entire episode this one is probably the weakest entry comparitive to the other levels available. It can be sluggish to get through, fights aren’t too difficult on their own, just drawn out further than they need to with beefier enemies and the visuals do lack some polish especially in regards to texturing. E1M9: Coming out of the God Damned Walls Hide contents Moving on from the last level’s critique, it’s not all doom and gloom as I really liked this one conceptually. First off the pacing was already off to a good start as we’re given a rocket launcher within minutes and tons of ammo to boot. The hordes we’re up against have a nice quirk in that they’re coming out of “solid” structures, phasing through them like ghosts which makes for a visual change from the usual teleport method, used to good effect once the pinkies pour into a corridor. During the final little Cybie fight, I let him deal with most of the Lost Souls while I baited shots into groups. It didn’t occur to me until a very close call that I wasn’t safe from his rockets using the central building between us, forgetting about its properties and made for a quick reality check that messes with your usual senses during combat. One of the more memorable levels so far, only wish it wasn’t reserved to a secret level slot since it works really well as a mid episode gauntlet. It’s not too drawn out and having a rocket launcher on hand for most the level just makes this a fun, enjoyable romp all in. E1M4: Operation Luna Hide contents Large portions of this level are a bit too square and uninteresting for my tastes and there’s a fair number of larger spaces for combat but the visuals don’t quite fill this space up in interesting ways, simply serving the gameplay more than anything. Infighting is pretty vital to cut down enemies due to the lack of stronger weapons until a little later, there’s a RL and PG to thin out herds but there’s still a ton of shotgun combat involved that doesn't seem too engaging. Monster-only portals were also used during an earlier fight to shift Pinkies around the room to sneak up behind the player to break the combat up a bit. Those cracks on the floor that cause this have a stylish flair to them that we only see at this location. Maybe similar and other motifs of hell’s influence elsewhere would do wonders to enhance the otherwise monotonous grey and boxy tech base look. Enjoyed the Plasma Gun bait though. E1M4 introduces another new Baron variant, we'll call him a Bruiser for simplicity sake, who looks like a smaller Cyberdemon. Sadly the guy didn’t put up much of a fight because he was too focused on taking out everyone else and the huge room makes circling strafing him a breeze. Not quite the arena suited to show off his prowess but this was just a taste of a new foe who'll pop up more often in later maps. I think some Cacos can be trimmed back here, there's two just loitering in that twisty corridor that could be removed without missing much. They don’t pose a threat and simply exist to slow the player down without good reason. The silent portal was a neat gimmick to transition between two areas, which can also be used to exploit the Lost Souls on the other side from causing any harm. E1M5: Industrial District Hide contents Probably one of the more varied and longer levels so far that really reminds me of old school 90s style of levels and I quite enjoyed it a lot. There were parts that seemed a little tight for space during the first portion but the map opens out and becomes a non-linear key hunt with more chill combat against monster mosh pits and plenty of weaponry choice which was pretty fun overall. Those new Spidermaster minds have an intimidating look, more so when their minigun shreds everything to pieces. They’re still not much of a threat with a plasma gun on hand but they’re infinitely more terrifying if they manage to hit and might be some good level hazards further in, only time will tell. Didn’t realise it during the secret level but even the Cyberdemons are faster. Issue #1 - Here’s a HOM and misaligned switch? The first lift, right of the starting drop: Issue #2 - Two of these Bruisers were stuck in these closets, they couldn't walk outside: Issue #2b - Late edit: Forgot to mention I noticed these guys are also possibly missing a firing frame? Or at least for me they'll vanish for a split second between shooting. Issue #3 - Also the final door only opens once – I assumed it was an exit so went out to finish some loose ends and came back unable to open it back up. E1M6: Inguisition Den Hide contents I’ve been enjoying the soundtrack so far but this track in particular caught my attention, its fluctuating pacing doesn’t let you ease into any particular rhythm, neither fully calm or fully fast, like a constant adrenaline rush to keep you on edge. I’m also liking how this level looks too, got a unique dark and haunting vibe about it. I do love how much of a trickster its style of gameplay has going on, as if the mapper is just laughing at the player's expense by constantly messing with them, baiting them and taking away the treat, causing disorientation and just making me question what is even going on. Memorable little experience and that fake out ending switch just seals the whole atmosphere for me. Since I like to go through the maps real quick a second time to write down notes with monsters turned off, I actually had trouble progressing but didn’t do much different than my first attempt. I just could not find that darned Red Skull key anywhere and thought I was going mad. Turns out the RSK is set to HARD only and my second run defaulted to HMP so it doesn’t appear making the level unplayable on lower difficulties? Also found some missing textures for the record: E1M7: The Lava Lake Hide contents Reimagining of the finale to the original Episode 1 from Doom, this time dialing the scale of the whole thing up several notches, going for something grander in scale and more akin to a modernised interpretation of the same level as the skill levels of Doomers have increased. Even so, while enemy counts have increased, supplies are incredibly generous including several blue spheres armours handed out like free muffins. Almost makes some of the secrets with them redundant but all the more power for myself I guess. These help to keep you in the fight for longer but some of the large epics can be circle strafed pretty easily allowing the barons to clean up shop while the player keeps focus on activating switches, letting the hordes pour in and finishing up the rest. I opted to just leave the arena when I could because I didn’t have great firepower on hand which is where the infighting became invaluable. I intended to come back with the plasma gun once I figured out how to snatch it up, but then came across a lonesome Cyberdemon baring down the hallway. I had a naughty idea and lured it into the portal, followed after it and let him do most of the work. The large star room is much more foreboding and dangerous with the three Spiders playing sniper with their nastier guns, I somehow managed to plasma all three within the Blur spheres time limit saving me so much trouble. The last Cyber fight wasn’t too bad either with a BFG on hand. I still can’t 2 shot these guys normally but they didn’t pose much of a threat in the end as there’s tons of cover to work with. Pretty enjoyable penultimate level overall though and had a blast. E1M8: Torture House Hide contents Another reimagining for the finale fight, a homage toward Doom2’s Suburbs, split into two distinct halves. Hunting down keys and switches within a small building and then a massive onslaught of every kind of enemy. This scenario can take several weird directions not entirely in the favour of players as the area surrounding the building becomes an impenetrable meat wall as foes just pour in, taking up ground and air space. Several Spiders can help out from the opposite side but it’s densely packed. I tried a few approaches. First was to fight them off at the door way but it soon became apparent I just wasn’t going to have enough ammo to chew through them all to make a path. The second idea was to encourage infighting from the YSK balcony but this was taking far too long and was getting kinda boring doing it this way and my efforts didn’t contribute much as the door was still jam packed. My final idea was to simply brute force my way out until I succeeded, making a save just before the door and pushing forward with the plasma gun. A battle of attrition until I made it outside. Took maybe ten attempts give or take? It would be nice if there was a teleporter that leads you outside behind the horde you can either choose to take or not. When I got outside the fight was much more interesting being able to take it on properly. I did waste the Invulnerability sphere thinking I’d need it for an ambush right after grabbing the BK, that's on me for not leaving it until I needed it though, oh well. Could have been handy here but wasn’t necessary to win, every other enemy took care of the Spiders for me leaving one behind. Wasn’t much a fan of the maze, but it’s a short sequence and doesn’t drag on so nothing that grinds my gears too badly. Found a minor HOM in the BK building, just left of my weapon: Thanks for the excelent review mate & I'm glad you had fun! I'll try my best to adress these issues in the full RC1 whenever it comes out (probably not anytime soon as I'm hardpressed for time at the momement & this project is no longer my top priority). I can't wait till you get to the later phases! I won't spoil too much but I will say they get a lot more... spicy... Hope you have fun & I can't wait to hear from you! Edited June 17, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 minor tweaks to punctuations... 1 Share this post Link to post
FEDEX Posted June 18, 2023 Hi @epicyolomaster420 i've checked the download links, and the Original soundtrack version is the same as the non-original one. 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 18, 2023 6 hours ago, FEDEX said: Hi @epicyolomaster420 i've checked the download links, and the Original soundtrack version is the same as the non-original one. Oh ups, my bad. The correct zip link has been inserted now (must have copied the ost link & then pasted it in twice...) 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) On 6/17/2023 at 3:22 AM, quakis said: Gave this a whirl today. I'd like to note that I started playing through Sunder some weeks back and slowly been plodding my way through it but haven't yet finished it, only made it up to MAP06 so far. Do excuse me if I miss any particular homages or similarities seeing as Cleanout takes influence from that project. For now I've played through Episode 1: Moon Mayhem, enjoyed my time with it and taking a short break before continuing. I'll post again once I get around to Episode 2. Here's some of my intial thoughts and some of the issues I came across while playing. Play method: UV, Pistol Start, GZDOOM E1M1: Technology Mantaince Reveal hidden contents It’s a short map that makes it clear what style of wad to expect going in, starting off rather tame to allow players a chance to grab hold of the shotgun, but soon escalates the numbers higher by each room encounter. The yellow key Imp room works as a nice distraction while these Cacos with a -fast modifier and some Lost Souls spawn in from behind the fence to backstab players too focused on what lies ahead. Chaingun can make good work of the Imp spillage. A crowd of Shotgunners are having a party inside the prior room, taking pot shots every chance they get when re-opening the door. They serve as a nice ammo reserve once shells get low. The second onslaught just after opening up the yellow key door pushed me back into the main room where some modified version of the Barons join the fight. Not sure on their official name for now. These guys shoot a double barrage of projectiles that help change up the usual pace and increase their threat. Other enemies continue to serve as a distraction from the bigger problem, but this fight can boil down to a lot of shotgun slog if players don’t choose to peek into the next room to find a rocket launcher to help ease the pacing. I only did so when the notion of the fight being slow came to mind, otherwise pistol-starters may find themselves equiped with a useless weapon after the battle because the exit is nearby. It's a good start that introduces the horde style gameplay and new variations on existing enemies. E1M2: Blood Factory Reveal hidden contents Don't have too much to say about this one. It’s much more tame than the starting level and seems to focus much of its combat around closet ambushes and exploiting tight spaces with its enemy placement, a little easier to manage where a Berserk pack comes in handy to deal with any spectres/pinkies. Beyond the blue key door has an unusually tall yet compact corridor looping back around, almost as if there's something more to this section, which turns out true once the final arena shows itself as the middle section opens up and skull barricades block up the exits. Some unpegged doortraks in these two locations should it be of concern: E1M3: Slime Base Reveal hidden contents Design is on the rough side where texturing could be polished up but the overall concept isn’t too bad in itself. It does lean a little too much on large waves of enemies teleporting onto the scene during every major beat that tends to slow down the progression of an otherwise short level. There’s a secret plasma gun stash to get through certain fights quicker, Lost Souls and Cacos primarily taking time to die and there’s plenty of them. Can encourage taking the safe option by just poking at stuff from doorways without really engaging with them, but that’s in favour of the player to get around avoiding the Lost Souls from zipping over into the distance to slow down combat even further. I actually had a similar distaste for that from Sunder’s MAP05, not quite as bad here though. I liked the secret exit location and love how it's possible to reach it within around 20secs from the starting room by jumping out the window using the nearby stairs. I think out of the entire episode this one is probably the weakest entry comparitive to the other levels available. It can be sluggish to get through, fights aren’t too difficult on their own, just drawn out further than they need to with beefier enemies and the visuals do lack some polish especially in regards to texturing. E1M9: Coming out of the God Damned Walls Reveal hidden contents Moving on from the last level’s critique, it’s not all doom and gloom as I really liked this one conceptually. First off the pacing was already off to a good start as we’re given a rocket launcher within minutes and tons of ammo to boot. The hordes we’re up against have a nice quirk in that they’re coming out of “solid” structures, phasing through them like ghosts which makes for a visual change from the usual teleport method, used to good effect once the pinkies pour into a corridor. During the final little Cybie fight, I let him deal with most of the Lost Souls while I baited shots into groups. It didn’t occur to me until a very close call that I wasn’t safe from his rockets using the central building between us, forgetting about its properties and made for a quick reality check that messes with your usual senses during combat. One of the more memorable levels so far, only wish it wasn’t reserved to a secret level slot since it works really well as a mid episode gauntlet. It’s not too drawn out and having a rocket launcher on hand for most the level just makes this a fun, enjoyable romp all in. E1M4: Operation Luna Reveal hidden contents Large portions of this level are a bit too square and uninteresting for my tastes and there’s a fair number of larger spaces for combat but the visuals don’t quite fill this space up in interesting ways, simply serving the gameplay more than anything. Infighting is pretty vital to cut down enemies due to the lack of stronger weapons until a little later, there’s a RL and PG to thin out herds but there’s still a ton of shotgun combat involved that doesn't seem too engaging. Monster-only portals were also used during an earlier fight to shift Pinkies around the room to sneak up behind the player to break the combat up a bit. Those cracks on the floor that cause this have a stylish flair to them that we only see at this location. Maybe similar and other motifs of hell’s influence elsewhere would do wonders to enhance the otherwise monotonous grey and boxy tech base look. Enjoyed the Plasma Gun bait though. E1M4 introduces another new Baron variant, we'll call him a Bruiser for simplicity sake, who looks like a smaller Cyberdemon. Sadly the guy didn’t put up much of a fight because he was too focused on taking out everyone else and the huge room makes circling strafing him a breeze. Not quite the arena suited to show off his prowess but this was just a taste of a new foe who'll pop up more often in later maps. I think some Cacos can be trimmed back here, there's two just loitering in that twisty corridor that could be removed without missing much. They don’t pose a threat and simply exist to slow the player down without good reason. The silent portal was a neat gimmick to transition between two areas, which can also be used to exploit the Lost Souls on the other side from causing any harm. E1M5: Industrial District Reveal hidden contents Probably one of the more varied and longer levels so far that really reminds me of old school 90s style of levels and I quite enjoyed it a lot. There were parts that seemed a little tight for space during the first portion but the map opens out and becomes a non-linear key hunt with more chill combat against monster mosh pits and plenty of weaponry choice which was pretty fun overall. Those new Spidermaster minds have an intimidating look, more so when their minigun shreds everything to pieces. They’re still not much of a threat with a plasma gun on hand but they’re infinitely more terrifying if they manage to hit and might be some good level hazards further in, only time will tell. Didn’t realise it during the secret level but even the Cyberdemons are faster. Issue #1 - Here’s a HOM and misaligned switch? The first lift, right of the starting drop: Issue #2 - Two of these Bruisers were stuck in these closets, they couldn't walk outside: Issue #2b - Late edit: Forgot to mention I noticed these guys are also possibly missing a firing frame? Or at least for me they'll vanish for a split second between shooting. Issue #3 - Also the final door only opens once – I assumed it was an exit so went out to finish some loose ends and came back unable to open it back up. E1M6: Inguisition Den Reveal hidden contents I’ve been enjoying the soundtrack so far but this track in particular caught my attention, its fluctuating pacing doesn’t let you ease into any particular rhythm, neither fully calm or fully fast, like a constant adrenaline rush to keep you on edge. I’m also liking how this level looks too, got a unique dark and haunting vibe about it. I do love how much of a trickster its style of gameplay has going on, as if the mapper is just laughing at the player's expense by constantly messing with them, baiting them and taking away the treat, causing disorientation and just making me question what is even going on. Memorable little experience and that fake out ending switch just seals the whole atmosphere for me. Since I like to go through the maps real quick a second time to write down notes with monsters turned off, I actually had trouble progressing but didn’t do much different than my first attempt. I just could not find that darned Red Skull key anywhere and thought I was going mad. Turns out the RSK is set to HARD only and my second run defaulted to HMP so it doesn’t appear making the level unplayable on lower difficulties? Also found some missing textures for the record: E1M7: The Lava Lake Reveal hidden contents Reimagining of the finale to the original Episode 1 from Doom, this time dialing the scale of the whole thing up several notches, going for something grander in scale and more akin to a modernised interpretation of the same level as the skill levels of Doomers have increased. Even so, while enemy counts have increased, supplies are incredibly generous including several blue spheres armours handed out like free muffins. Almost makes some of the secrets with them redundant but all the more power for myself I guess. These help to keep you in the fight for longer but some of the large epics can be circle strafed pretty easily allowing the barons to clean up shop while the player keeps focus on activating switches, letting the hordes pour in and finishing up the rest. I opted to just leave the arena when I could because I didn’t have great firepower on hand which is where the infighting became invaluable. I intended to come back with the plasma gun once I figured out how to snatch it up, but then came across a lonesome Cyberdemon baring down the hallway. I had a naughty idea and lured it into the portal, followed after it and let him do most of the work. The large star room is much more foreboding and dangerous with the three Spiders playing sniper with their nastier guns, I somehow managed to plasma all three within the Blur spheres time limit saving me so much trouble. The last Cyber fight wasn’t too bad either with a BFG on hand. I still can’t 2 shot these guys normally but they didn’t pose much of a threat in the end as there’s tons of cover to work with. Pretty enjoyable penultimate level overall though and had a blast. E1M8: Torture House Reveal hidden contents Another reimagining for the finale fight, a homage toward Doom2’s Suburbs, split into two distinct halves. Hunting down keys and switches within a small building and then a massive onslaught of every kind of enemy. This scenario can take several weird directions not entirely in the favour of players as the area surrounding the building becomes an impenetrable meat wall as foes just pour in, taking up ground and air space. Several Spiders can help out from the opposite side but it’s densely packed. I tried a few approaches. First was to fight them off at the door way but it soon became apparent I just wasn’t going to have enough ammo to chew through them all to make a path. The second idea was to encourage infighting from the YSK balcony but this was taking far too long and was getting kinda boring doing it this way and my efforts didn’t contribute much as the door was still jam packed. My final idea was to simply brute force my way out until I succeeded, making a save just before the door and pushing forward with the plasma gun. A battle of attrition until I made it outside. Took maybe ten attempts give or take? It would be nice if there was a teleporter that leads you outside behind the horde you can either choose to take or not. When I got outside the fight was much more interesting being able to take it on properly. I did waste the Invulnerability sphere thinking I’d need it for an ambush right after grabbing the BK, that's on me for not leaving it until I needed it though, oh well. Could have been handy here but wasn’t necessary to win, every other enemy took care of the Spiders for me leaving one behind. Wasn’t much a fan of the maze, but it’s a short sequence and doesn’t drag on so nothing that grinds my gears too badly. Found a minor HOM in the BK building, just left of my weapon: Also forgot to mention 2 things in my last reply to this: 1) I never got past map06 in my Sunder playthrough either, lol. That final fight is a bitch... (even though I've watched decino's livestream of that map I still can't beat it - without using cheats I mean). I mostly just resorted to exploring & flying through Sunder maps in the editor & decino's livestream playthroughs of Sunder (I watched them all - some multiple times) as reffrence for making this wad... 2) The new baron monster that looks like a mini cyber is one I decided to name the cyberhellbaron (cause it's a half cyber half baron - not very imaginative I know...) & the other new baron (with the orange recolor & double fireballs) is one I never really gave any special name to & just refered to as the Cleanout baron. Edited June 18, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 forgot to include some information... 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 20, 2023 (edited) I've had some extra time today and have managed to fix most of the issues @quakis found in phase1 & a texture issue in P2M3 (I hope...) and have updated the zip's. The biggest change was to P1M3 which has now been given a new look and now has a lot more rockets in it to help you deal with the tankier enemies. I've also fixed the red skull key issue of P1M6, the exit door & stuck cyberhellbarons issue of P1M5 & a few other more minor things. This is still not the full RC1 though as I'm still waiting for quakis's feedback on the other episodes (there will still probably be plenty else left to fix...). Edited June 20, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 fixed typo 2 Share this post Link to post
quakis Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) Returning with partial feedback for Phase 2: Escalation. I played up until E2M5 and decided it's a good point to take another break until next time. Since these maps and the battles within them are getting longer and tougher, I don't want to burn myself out trying to play the whole episode before I can give proper feedback, so this might be a slow burning process. I've also decided to forego general level screenshots and just focus on screenshots pointing out issues I find. Based on what I've been playing so far there's a heavy use of Lost Souls that tend to slow things down in most levels. Have you considered adjusting the Lost Souls to have half health instead? There’s already many enemies with lots of health including the new additions and it might help to improve pacing and how combat feels across the board. If they died consistently to one full shotgun blast, they can still remain a nuisance in large numbers, just without any of the tedium involved to destroy them. Now for my initial feedback for Phase 2: Escalation: Play method: UV, Pistol Start, GZDOOM E2M1: Boom Boom (Right Off ‘A Your Feet) Spoiler Surrealistic, interconnected network of twisting hallways and chambers with a bizarre layout from place to place, as if reality is warping the moment we walk forward. There’s an oddly satisfying OG E2 vibe going on here and enjoyed how much the place loops around, ascends, descends and shifts during play. Not one direction ever seemed to be a definitive choice, either path leads toward the required keys and door necessary for them. Combat is lightly loaded but packed densely, very shotgun dominant but the beefier enemies are spaced out enough with convenient explosive barrels around to help out, I hardly noticed it as a problem here. Even the blue key room Caco swarm worked well enough, practical use of the barrels dotted around and using the limited space to dodge them still took a bite out of me, died once here. Really strong entry level going into the second episode. E2M2: Hellville Spoiler It’s a much more grounded level moving away from the strange aspect set up in the first level, this time taking place around an old town with a lot of water, that comes across like a blend between Heretic and Strife. It’s a traditional level for progression and combat up until using the blue key, then a two way path opens up to grab the remaining two keys to exit. It’s a well rounded and solid level with all the usual moments from traps being sprung and turrets being pests from platforms. The circular room leading toward the red key catching me off for a moment while surrounded by enemies from all angles, those pinkies especially getting in the way. Fun romp from start to finish with just enough variation to keep things flowing along smoothly. It's also funny if you happen to get the Spider hit by an enemy outside, turning him docile for a good while giving you plenty of breathing space. E2M3: The Prison Spoiler There’s quite a fair bit to talk about here so I’ll start with the positives. I like the dedication to the prison theme to include the expected sections from cells, shower rooms, a canteen, outside yard for sport excercise and little guard towers. There’s a little freedom to wander around looking for three keys either taking expected routes or crawling through cracked walls or ventilation shafts. The canteen makes for a nice arena for drawn out fights, the oversized tables and chairs (with cute cutlery and dish detail) work extremely well to provide cover as you dart from table to table. They still allow Cacos and Lost Souls to move leaving some bite to watch out for. I’m also glad the level offers up an RL and PG to keep up a smooth pace during fights, as the tighter scale in some sections and large counts still forced me to watch myself. As for aspects that I didn’t think worked too well: 1) Lost Soul usage in general because they can’t do much besides getting in the way, but I’ll have to assume that wasn’t their only purpose for now. There’s a lot of midtextures and impassible walls they cannot get beyond to attack the player effectively. Unlike Cacos they cannot shoot projectiles either to make up for it. This became a more apparent issue during the kitchen fight when a lot of Lost Souls would spawn into the canteen, yet they simply couldn’t reach me properly and only prevented most enemies from doing their own job. If anything they do discourage reckless rocket launcher use, so that role they do serve well. Otherwise Lost Souls probably slow down the combat across the level a little too much. 2) I don’t mind large numbers but some spawn sequences dragged out just a little bit too long here, I think there might need to be an extra portal exit to push them out faster. The current setup seems like it’s there to serve as a distraction, suitable for an Archvile popping out elsewhere if this were a DOOM2 mapset. Enemy spawns come as a reaction to player actions such as taking the blue key and they’ll swarm in as if the player is expected to respond back, except I found myself idling an area waiting as stragglers and late arrivals come to a party that’s already over. I wasn’t going to leave until I confirmed they stop coming. A slow injection of fresh enemies might work better if out of sight in larger or more open levels to create some extra chaos during exploration when the level seems too quiet. Now for some minor nitpicks and issues I came across: 1) In the kitchen, this little assembly on the table has it’s textures misaligned. 2) I guess these were supposed to serve as bridges, but wouldn’t midtextures and a self-referencing sector floor not work as a better alternative here to make the effect look more seamless? Here’s a quick example to visualise it, allows for both over and under traversal using lower/raise linedefs: 3) I love these basketball hoops in the yards, just a shame the sky breaks the rendering behind them. One suggestion I have is to recreate them using midtextures instead, that should stop the sky rendering over the other constructions, maybe even create a custom texture specific to board height. I created a quick and rough test example on the right screenshot: 4) Too many secrets tagged sectors here? E2M4: Boiling Blood City Spoiler I made too many mistakes before I reached the “Epic Slaughter Ahead” room, only had a shotgun, chaingun and the supplied BFG on hand with no convenient shortcuts opened up and had a miserable time once the big battle began, using up all the Hazsuits before making significant dent in the enemy numbers. Chose to start over from scratch to focus on the other paths first, ended up finding a RL and PG along the way and got some barriers openned up. That made a massive difference in the upcoming fight because it gave me more options to work with while retreating to limit how many Hazsuits I’m using up for when I actually need them. Also discovered both the secret exit and eventually found my way to the normal exit. I'll play the secret level later. I didn't kill every monster because my munnitions were too short as I didn’t optimise for better enemy infighting and wasted some BFG shots. Surviving up until the end is really what counts in my eyes. I also noticed once the wall opens for the “Epic Slaughter” that as long as I don’t shoot it can give me some leeway to prepare had I missed something. It's a risk sure, but another option in the tin before being forced to shoot the eye switch to reach an exit point and chaos ensures. Regarding the “Epic Slaughter” arena, I found that all those Cleanout-Barons (henceforth shortend to COBarons from now on) were the most dangerous foes, with Lost Souls a close second and Cacos in third place. COBarons hurl tons of projectiles which hurt a lot, which I got hit by the most. Lost Souls love getting in the way and do a much better job of being pests this time compared to E2M3. Cacos also ate most of my rockets and BFG shots aimed at other things. Hitscanners were just a nuisance causing chip damage, I honestly should have focused on them first. Cyberdemons and ground level Masterminds were useful allies during this mosh pit, while the Turret Masterminds created area denial exactly where you needed to be. Good stuff there. I tried my best to encourage these guys to accidentally hit some COBarons and Cybies but not much luck with that. Just had to Mega Armour up and rush to the switch once it was available hoping I didn't eat too many bullets. The hardest part I struggled with was rationing out the Hazsuits properly during battle, that’s on me because there are tons of them scattered about, I only managed it because I could retreat to a few platforms using portals to keep enemies at bay and catch a breather. One important suggestion I’d offer is making this pillar with the eye stand out more. The arrow in the blood is easy to miss, instead the pillar itself should be a point of interest that doesn’t blend in with anything else in level, instantly telling players that this might be of importance. Never noticed it as anything special on my first failed attempt and almost missed it again during my second run. Bonus suggestion you can freely ignore if it doesn’t fit your intentions. For easier difficulties, you could have a thin walkway around the edge of the arena players can use to avoid the hazardous blood. This might help to reduce the pressure on those lower difficulties, yet there still won’t be much space to parley with enemies if they get too close for comfort and the wall right behind you will allow for splash damage from enemy attacks, so it still might encourage players to move around and opt for using a Hazsuit if it gets too dangerous. On UV, keep it the way it is by having the walkway lower and turn into the hazardous blood again. Some minor issues I found here: 1) These two letters aren’t using the same flat as the others: 2) HOM behind the lift as it lowers, right beside the normal exit portal: 3) Missing texture in this crate room: 4) Each sector here is tagged as a secret, creating three in total: E2M5: Necropolis of the Unholy Cemetery Spoiler There’s a lot to break down here considering it took about an hour to beat, however I’ll summarise that I enjoyed most of the combat scenarios presented here. The graveyard section is a chill reprieve from the previous level before dropping players into its own chaotic battlegrounds. Many of these were fun to figure out the best approach, I took a lot of risks and didn’t mind dying to most of these over and over again. It kept me engaged enough to conquer the challenge. Those platforming sections while avoiding enemy attacks were quite tense too and I was getting better at dealing with Cyberdemons in general. However one section bothered me a lot: I personally did not enjoy the Cyberhellbaron fight in its current form and only managed to beat that section through sheer luck. It felt like a massive difficulty spike out of nowhere compared to everything else before and after. Each of those were tough but a fair challenge. The problems I faced here though is there are too many projectiles taking up all movable space and nothing to use as cover since all angles are being blasted. It's very difficult to avoid taking damage here, having to ration out the health/armour power-ups just before dying acting as an extra life. Amongst the mess of attacks I also have to look out for any Cyberdemon rockets which were hard to see in this situation. I couldn’t kill the Cyberhellbaron’s fast enough to minimise damage. Even if there’s infighting I’m still constantly surrounded by projectiles, some which melt you down. It seemed like nowhere was ever safe no matter how hard I tried and this was simply a battle of attrition. Either I’m not good enough for this fight or the combat setup has been overtuned. I came across quite a lot of issues dotted across the level and probably missed a lot more. Here’s a basic breakdown of what I did find: 1) Missing textures. There's also HOMs on most of the monster/cage crushers across the map: 2) The edges where the doors used to be are missing: 3) Was this intentional? The floor height is different between silent teleports: 4) There might be more of these, relatively minor issue but I noticed them anyway, looks like a copy-paste placement without adjusting the ceiling height: 5) This door doesn’t open properly if the crusher is too low. There was a switch in here I could press to open the barrier but it wasn’t visible for me: 6) The 6 key door is also set to DOOR ONCE & OPEN WAIT CLOSE on both sides, making backtracking impossible without noclipping when you’re ready to return: 7) Enemies here don't respond until I lower this barrier, but I can still hurt and kill them from here: 8) The Cacos get stuck on these portal exits and don’t move, just float up and down. I think their collision box is stuck in the walls: 9) There’s also two Imps stuck in the same room with the Cacos, their collision box is caught on the switch: 10) Not sure if you consider this a problem but it is a possible cheese tactic. I can avoid this fight by dropping into the pit and waiting until it arrives, allowing me to teleport out without engaging in the fight should I choose: Edited June 25, 2023 by quakis Minor edits 3 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 26, 2023 On 6/25/2023 at 4:10 AM, quakis said: Returning with partial feedback for Phase 2: Escalation. I played up until E2M5 and decided it's a good point to take another break until next time. Since these maps and the battles within them are getting longer and tougher, I don't want to burn myself out trying to play the whole episode before I can give proper feedback, so this might be a slow burning process. I've also decided to forego general level screenshots and just focus on screenshots pointing out issues I find. Based on what I've been playing so far there's a heavy use of Lost Souls that tend to slow things down in most levels. Have you considered adjusting the Lost Souls to have half health instead? There’s already many enemies with lots of health including the new additions and it might help to improve pacing and how combat feels across the board. If they died consistently to one full shotgun blast, they can still remain a nuisance in large numbers, just without any of the tedium involved to destroy them. Now for my initial feedback for Phase 2: Escalation: Play method: UV, Pistol Start, GZDOOM E2M1: Boom Boom (Right Off ‘A Your Feet) Reveal hidden contents Surrealistic, interconnected network of twisting hallways and chambers with a bizarre layout from place to place, as if reality is warping the moment we walk forward. There’s an oddly satisfying OG E2 vibe going on here and enjoyed how much the place loops around, ascends, descends and shifts during play. Not one direction ever seemed to be a definitive choice, either path leads toward the required keys and door necessary for them. Combat is lightly loaded but packed densely, very shotgun dominant but the beefier enemies are spaced out enough with convenient explosive barrels around to help out, I hardly noticed it as a problem here. Even the blue key room Caco swarm worked well enough, practical use of the barrels dotted around and using the limited space to dodge them still took a bite out of me, died once here. Really strong entry level going into the second episode. E2M2: Hellville Reveal hidden contents It’s a much more grounded level moving away from the strange aspect set up in the first level, this time taking place around an old town with a lot of water, that comes across like a blend between Heretic and Strife. It’s a traditional level for progression and combat up until using the blue key, then a two way path opens up to grab the remaining two keys to exit. It’s a well rounded and solid level with all the usual moments from traps being sprung and turrets being pests from platforms. The circular room leading toward the red key catching me off for a moment while surrounded by enemies from all angles, those pinkies especially getting in the way. Fun romp from start to finish with just enough variation to keep things flowing along smoothly. It's also funny if you happen to get the Spider hit by an enemy outside, turning him docile for a good while giving you plenty of breathing space. E2M3: The Prison Reveal hidden contents There’s quite a fair bit to talk about here so I’ll start with the positives. I like the dedication to the prison theme to include the expected sections from cells, shower rooms, a canteen, outside yard for sport excercise and little guard towers. There’s a little freedom to wander around looking for three keys either taking expected routes or crawling through cracked walls or ventilation shafts. The canteen makes for a nice arena for drawn out fights, the oversized tables and chairs (with cute cutlery and dish detail) work extremely well to provide cover as you dart from table to table. They still allow Cacos and Lost Souls to move leaving some bite to watch out for. I’m also glad the level offers up an RL and PG to keep up a smooth pace during fights, as the tighter scale in some sections and large counts still forced me to watch myself. As for aspects that I didn’t think worked too well: 1) Lost Soul usage in general because they can’t do much besides getting in the way, but I’ll have to assume that wasn’t their only purpose for now. There’s a lot of midtextures and impassible walls they cannot get beyond to attack the player effectively. Unlike Cacos they cannot shoot projectiles either to make up for it. This became a more apparent issue during the kitchen fight when a lot of Lost Souls would spawn into the canteen, yet they simply couldn’t reach me properly and only prevented most enemies from doing their own job. If anything they do discourage reckless rocket launcher use, so that role they do serve well. Otherwise Lost Souls probably slow down the combat across the level a little too much. 2) I don’t mind large numbers but some spawn sequences dragged out just a little bit too long here, I think there might need to be an extra portal exit to push them out faster. The current setup seems like it’s there to serve as a distraction, suitable for an Archvile popping out elsewhere if this were a DOOM2 mapset. Enemy spawns come as a reaction to player actions such as taking the blue key and they’ll swarm in as if the player is expected to respond back, except I found myself idling an area waiting as stragglers and late arrivals come to a party that’s already over. I wasn’t going to leave until I confirmed they stop coming. A slow injection of fresh enemies might work better if out of sight in larger or more open levels to create some extra chaos during exploration when the level seems too quiet. Now for some minor nitpicks and issues I came across: 1) In the kitchen, this little assembly on the table has it’s textures misaligned. 2) I guess these were supposed to serve as bridges, but wouldn’t midtextures and a self-referencing sector floor not work as a better alternative here to make the effect look more seamless? Here’s a quick example to visualise it, allows for both over and under traversal using lower/raise linedefs: 3) I love these basketball hoops in the yards, just a shame the sky breaks the rendering behind them. One suggestion I have is to recreate them using midtextures instead, that should stop the sky rendering over the other constructions, maybe even create a custom texture specific to board height. I created a quick and rough test example on the right screenshot: 4) Too many secrets tagged sectors here? E2M4: Boiling Blood City Reveal hidden contents I made too many mistakes before I reached the “Epic Slaughter Ahead” room, only had a shotgun, chaingun and the supplied BFG on hand with no convenient shortcuts opened up and had a miserable time once the big battle began, using up all the Hazsuits before making significant dent in the enemy numbers. Chose to start over from scratch to focus on the other paths first, ended up finding a RL and PG along the way and got some barriers openned up. That made a massive difference in the upcoming fight because it gave me more options to work with while retreating to limit how many Hazsuits I’m using up for when I actually need them. Also discovered both the secret exit and eventually found my way to the normal exit. I'll play the secret level later. I didn't kill every monster because my munnitions were too short as I didn’t optimise for better enemy infighting and wasted some BFG shots. Surviving up until the end is really what counts in my eyes. I also noticed once the wall opens for the “Epic Slaughter” that as long as I don’t shoot it can give me some leeway to prepare had I missed something. It's a risk sure, but another option in the tin before being forced to shoot the eye switch to reach an exit point and chaos ensures. Regarding the “Epic Slaughter” arena, I found that all those Cleanout-Barons (henceforth shortend to COBarons from now on) were the most dangerous foes, with Lost Souls a close second and Cacos in third place. COBarons hurl tons of projectiles which hurt a lot, which I got hit by the most. Lost Souls love getting in the way and do a much better job of being pests this time compared to E2M3. Cacos also ate most of my rockets and BFG shots aimed at other things. Hitscanners were just a nuisance causing chip damage, I honestly should have focused on them first. Cyberdemons and ground level Masterminds were useful allies during this mosh pit, while the Turret Masterminds created area denial exactly where you needed to be. Good stuff there. I tried my best to encourage these guys to accidentally hit some COBarons and Cybies but not much luck with that. Just had to Mega Armour up and rush to the switch once it was available hoping I didn't eat too many bullets. The hardest part I struggled with was rationing out the Hazsuits properly during battle, that’s on me because there are tons of them scattered about, I only managed it because I could retreat to a few platforms using portals to keep enemies at bay and catch a breather. One important suggestion I’d offer is making this pillar with the eye stand out more. The arrow in the blood is easy to miss, instead the pillar itself should be a point of interest that doesn’t blend in with anything else in level, instantly telling players that this might be of importance. Never noticed it as anything special on my first failed attempt and almost missed it again during my second run. Bonus suggestion you can freely ignore if it doesn’t fit your intentions. For easier difficulties, you could have a thin walkway around the edge of the arena players can use to avoid the hazardous blood. This might help to reduce the pressure on those lower difficulties, yet there still won’t be much space to parley with enemies if they get too close for comfort and the wall right behind you will allow for splash damage from enemy attacks, so it still might encourage players to move around and opt for using a Hazsuit if it gets too dangerous. On UV, keep it the way it is by having the walkway lower and turn into the hazardous blood again. Some minor issues I found here: 1) These two letters aren’t using the same flat as the others: 2) HOM behind the lift as it lowers, right beside the normal exit portal: 3) Missing texture in this crate room: 4) Each sector here is tagged as a secret, creating three in total: E2M5: Necropolis of the Unholy Cemetery Reveal hidden contents There’s a lot to break down here considering it took about an hour to beat, however I’ll summarise that I enjoyed most of the combat scenarios presented here. The graveyard section is a chill reprieve from the previous level before dropping players into its own chaotic battlegrounds. Many of these were fun to figure out the best approach, I took a lot of risks and didn’t mind dying to most of these over and over again. It kept me engaged enough to conquer the challenge. Those platforming sections while avoiding enemy attacks were quite tense too and I was getting better at dealing with Cyberdemons in general. However one section bothered me a lot: I personally did not enjoy the Cyberhellbaron fight in its current form and only managed to beat that section through sheer luck. It felt like a massive difficulty spike out of nowhere compared to everything else before and after. Each of those were tough but a fair challenge. The problems I faced here though is there are too many projectiles taking up all movable space and nothing to use as cover since all angles are being blasted. It's very difficult to avoid taking damage here, having to ration out the health/armour power-ups just before dying acting as an extra life. Amongst the mess of attacks I also have to look out for any Cyberdemon rockets which were hard to see in this situation. I couldn’t kill the Cyberhellbaron’s fast enough to minimise damage. Even if there’s infighting I’m still constantly surrounded by projectiles, some which melt you down. It seemed like nowhere was ever safe no matter how hard I tried and this was simply a battle of attrition. Either I’m not good enough for this fight or the combat setup has been overtuned. I came across quite a lot of issues dotted across the level and probably missed a lot more. Here’s a basic breakdown of what I did find: 1) Missing textures. There's also HOMs on most of the monster/cage crushers across the map: 2) The edges where the doors used to be are missing: 3) Was this intentional? The floor height is different between silent teleports: 4) There might be more of these, relatively minor issue but I noticed them anyway, looks like a copy-paste placement without adjusting the ceiling height: 5) This door doesn’t open properly if the crusher is too low. There was a switch in here I could press to open the barrier but it wasn’t visible for me: 6) The 6 key door is also set to DOOR ONCE & OPEN WAIT CLOSE on both sides, making backtracking impossible without noclipping when you’re ready to return: 7) Enemies here don't respond until I lower this barrier, but I can still hurt and kill them from here: 8) The Cacos get stuck on these portal exits and don’t move, just float up and down. I think their collision box is stuck in the walls: 9) There’s also two Imps stuck in the same room with the Cacos, their collision box is caught on the switch: 10) Not sure if you consider this a problem but it is a possible cheese tactic. I can avoid this fight by dropping into the pit and waiting until it arrives, allowing me to teleport out without engaging in the fight should I choose: As always thanks for the excelent feedback. You've given me a lot to consider. Some things I will say right off the bat however are: 1) You've managed to convince me to indeed lower the lost soul HP for this WAD. Haven't decided the exact amount I'll lower it to yet but I was thinking I'd start with half (50HP). 2) I'm very sorry you had to endure through that much trouble in the E2M5 cyberhellbaron fight. It was suppose to be a play on Okuplok slaughter's infamous revenant corridor (in case the similarity in room & fight setup didn't give that away), which in it's own right is a very dificult fight, but was suppose to be more managable. I thought I had made like that by putting in as much health and ammo as I did, but didn't have much time to test it and certainly didn't have time to balance it so the blame is on me. Again apologies for the incovinience. I'll try my best to balance the fight properly. 3) The fight skip you found in E2M5 was not intentional. It never ocurred to me that a player would be willing to drop down into that pit and wait out the fight so thanks for pointing that out! 1 Share this post Link to post
quakis Posted June 26, 2023 5 hours ago, epicyolomaster420 said: 2) I'm very sorry you had to endure through that much trouble in the E2M5 cyberhellbaron fight. It was suppose to be a play on Okuplok slaughter's infamous revenant corridor (in case the similarity in room & fight setup didn't give that away), which in it's own right is a very dificult fight, but was suppose to be more managable. I thought I had made like that by putting in as much health and ammo as I did, but didn't have much time to test it and certainly didn't have time to balance it so the blame is on me. Again apologies for the incovinience. I'll try my best to balance the fight properly. Just wanted to elaborate a little more on E2M5. I haven't played or seen Okuplok so indeed the reference was lost on me. There's definitely tons of health but my main problem was reaching it in time before the projectile spam melted down what was left of my health. Sometimes I'd grab a Soulsphere and immediately lose any benefit from it. If these were all Revenants like your inspiration, I might have managed by with less of the frustration because they're glass cannons. Not that you need to replace the type of enemy either, but probably find the right configuration considering how these guys behave. It could also involve some alterations to the arena or some additional dynamic like temp cover that raises and lowers to keep the player moving. They're really dangerous enemies in close quarters afterall, I think that's the risk with adding new enemies is balancing them out to not only fill holes in the roster, especially without the DOOM2 options on hand, but also ensure that they're providing some kind of challenge or different spin to how combat plays out. The Cyberhellbarons in that scenario did feel excessive in such large numbers compared to any other fight in the level due to their sheer power. I think the COBarons are a nice twist, always got to watch out for that second fireball. To be fair that was only one small section I didn't find engaging, otherwise enjoyed clearing many of the other fights. That big fight where you grab a BFG and drop down into a Cybie/Pinkie gauntlet was a fun one to figure out. My solution here was to rush the key after setting up some infighting and deal with that scenario first before cleaning up whatever was left in the main room. I also like how the battle scale gradually escalates from the simpler graveyard skirmishes up until the end where Cyberdemons become more common foes. It didn't feel constantly exhausting even though the enemy counts and expectations were raising or more limitations were thrown onto the player. E2M5 was a neat slaughter romp I'd like to eventually see more polished up. I'm only halfway into it but so far the second episode has been a stronger selection of maps, here's hoping this continues. 1 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) On 6/25/2023 at 4:10 AM, quakis said: Returning with partial feedback for Phase 2: Escalation. I played up until E2M5 and decided it's a good point to take another break until next time. Since these maps and the battles within them are getting longer and tougher, I don't want to burn myself out trying to play the whole episode before I can give proper feedback, so this might be a slow burning process. I've also decided to forego general level screenshots and just focus on screenshots pointing out issues I find. Based on what I've been playing so far there's a heavy use of Lost Souls that tend to slow things down in most levels. Have you considered adjusting the Lost Souls to have half health instead? There’s already many enemies with lots of health including the new additions and it might help to improve pacing and how combat feels across the board. If they died consistently to one full shotgun blast, they can still remain a nuisance in large numbers, just without any of the tedium involved to destroy them. Now for my initial feedback for Phase 2: Escalation: Play method: UV, Pistol Start, GZDOOM E2M1: Boom Boom (Right Off ‘A Your Feet) Reveal hidden contents Surrealistic, interconnected network of twisting hallways and chambers with a bizarre layout from place to place, as if reality is warping the moment we walk forward. There’s an oddly satisfying OG E2 vibe going on here and enjoyed how much the place loops around, ascends, descends and shifts during play. Not one direction ever seemed to be a definitive choice, either path leads toward the required keys and door necessary for them. Combat is lightly loaded but packed densely, very shotgun dominant but the beefier enemies are spaced out enough with convenient explosive barrels around to help out, I hardly noticed it as a problem here. Even the blue key room Caco swarm worked well enough, practical use of the barrels dotted around and using the limited space to dodge them still took a bite out of me, died once here. Really strong entry level going into the second episode. E2M2: Hellville Reveal hidden contents It’s a much more grounded level moving away from the strange aspect set up in the first level, this time taking place around an old town with a lot of water, that comes across like a blend between Heretic and Strife. It’s a traditional level for progression and combat up until using the blue key, then a two way path opens up to grab the remaining two keys to exit. It’s a well rounded and solid level with all the usual moments from traps being sprung and turrets being pests from platforms. The circular room leading toward the red key catching me off for a moment while surrounded by enemies from all angles, those pinkies especially getting in the way. Fun romp from start to finish with just enough variation to keep things flowing along smoothly. It's also funny if you happen to get the Spider hit by an enemy outside, turning him docile for a good while giving you plenty of breathing space. E2M3: The Prison Reveal hidden contents There’s quite a fair bit to talk about here so I’ll start with the positives. I like the dedication to the prison theme to include the expected sections from cells, shower rooms, a canteen, outside yard for sport excercise and little guard towers. There’s a little freedom to wander around looking for three keys either taking expected routes or crawling through cracked walls or ventilation shafts. The canteen makes for a nice arena for drawn out fights, the oversized tables and chairs (with cute cutlery and dish detail) work extremely well to provide cover as you dart from table to table. They still allow Cacos and Lost Souls to move leaving some bite to watch out for. I’m also glad the level offers up an RL and PG to keep up a smooth pace during fights, as the tighter scale in some sections and large counts still forced me to watch myself. As for aspects that I didn’t think worked too well: 1) Lost Soul usage in general because they can’t do much besides getting in the way, but I’ll have to assume that wasn’t their only purpose for now. There’s a lot of midtextures and impassible walls they cannot get beyond to attack the player effectively. Unlike Cacos they cannot shoot projectiles either to make up for it. This became a more apparent issue during the kitchen fight when a lot of Lost Souls would spawn into the canteen, yet they simply couldn’t reach me properly and only prevented most enemies from doing their own job. If anything they do discourage reckless rocket launcher use, so that role they do serve well. Otherwise Lost Souls probably slow down the combat across the level a little too much. 2) I don’t mind large numbers but some spawn sequences dragged out just a little bit too long here, I think there might need to be an extra portal exit to push them out faster. The current setup seems like it’s there to serve as a distraction, suitable for an Archvile popping out elsewhere if this were a DOOM2 mapset. Enemy spawns come as a reaction to player actions such as taking the blue key and they’ll swarm in as if the player is expected to respond back, except I found myself idling an area waiting as stragglers and late arrivals come to a party that’s already over. I wasn’t going to leave until I confirmed they stop coming. A slow injection of fresh enemies might work better if out of sight in larger or more open levels to create some extra chaos during exploration when the level seems too quiet. Now for some minor nitpicks and issues I came across: 1) In the kitchen, this little assembly on the table has it’s textures misaligned. 2) I guess these were supposed to serve as bridges, but wouldn’t midtextures and a self-referencing sector floor not work as a better alternative here to make the effect look more seamless? Here’s a quick example to visualise it, allows for both over and under traversal using lower/raise linedefs: 3) I love these basketball hoops in the yards, just a shame the sky breaks the rendering behind them. One suggestion I have is to recreate them using midtextures instead, that should stop the sky rendering over the other constructions, maybe even create a custom texture specific to board height. I created a quick and rough test example on the right screenshot: 4) Too many secrets tagged sectors here? E2M4: Boiling Blood City Reveal hidden contents I made too many mistakes before I reached the “Epic Slaughter Ahead” room, only had a shotgun, chaingun and the supplied BFG on hand with no convenient shortcuts opened up and had a miserable time once the big battle began, using up all the Hazsuits before making significant dent in the enemy numbers. Chose to start over from scratch to focus on the other paths first, ended up finding a RL and PG along the way and got some barriers openned up. That made a massive difference in the upcoming fight because it gave me more options to work with while retreating to limit how many Hazsuits I’m using up for when I actually need them. Also discovered both the secret exit and eventually found my way to the normal exit. I'll play the secret level later. I didn't kill every monster because my munnitions were too short as I didn’t optimise for better enemy infighting and wasted some BFG shots. Surviving up until the end is really what counts in my eyes. I also noticed once the wall opens for the “Epic Slaughter” that as long as I don’t shoot it can give me some leeway to prepare had I missed something. It's a risk sure, but another option in the tin before being forced to shoot the eye switch to reach an exit point and chaos ensures. Regarding the “Epic Slaughter” arena, I found that all those Cleanout-Barons (henceforth shortend to COBarons from now on) were the most dangerous foes, with Lost Souls a close second and Cacos in third place. COBarons hurl tons of projectiles which hurt a lot, which I got hit by the most. Lost Souls love getting in the way and do a much better job of being pests this time compared to E2M3. Cacos also ate most of my rockets and BFG shots aimed at other things. Hitscanners were just a nuisance causing chip damage, I honestly should have focused on them first. Cyberdemons and ground level Masterminds were useful allies during this mosh pit, while the Turret Masterminds created area denial exactly where you needed to be. Good stuff there. I tried my best to encourage these guys to accidentally hit some COBarons and Cybies but not much luck with that. Just had to Mega Armour up and rush to the switch once it was available hoping I didn't eat too many bullets. The hardest part I struggled with was rationing out the Hazsuits properly during battle, that’s on me because there are tons of them scattered about, I only managed it because I could retreat to a few platforms using portals to keep enemies at bay and catch a breather. One important suggestion I’d offer is making this pillar with the eye stand out more. The arrow in the blood is easy to miss, instead the pillar itself should be a point of interest that doesn’t blend in with anything else in level, instantly telling players that this might be of importance. Never noticed it as anything special on my first failed attempt and almost missed it again during my second run. Bonus suggestion you can freely ignore if it doesn’t fit your intentions. For easier difficulties, you could have a thin walkway around the edge of the arena players can use to avoid the hazardous blood. This might help to reduce the pressure on those lower difficulties, yet there still won’t be much space to parley with enemies if they get too close for comfort and the wall right behind you will allow for splash damage from enemy attacks, so it still might encourage players to move around and opt for using a Hazsuit if it gets too dangerous. On UV, keep it the way it is by having the walkway lower and turn into the hazardous blood again. Some minor issues I found here: 1) These two letters aren’t using the same flat as the others: 2) HOM behind the lift as it lowers, right beside the normal exit portal: 3) Missing texture in this crate room: 4) Each sector here is tagged as a secret, creating three in total: E2M5: Necropolis of the Unholy Cemetery Reveal hidden contents There’s a lot to break down here considering it took about an hour to beat, however I’ll summarise that I enjoyed most of the combat scenarios presented here. The graveyard section is a chill reprieve from the previous level before dropping players into its own chaotic battlegrounds. Many of these were fun to figure out the best approach, I took a lot of risks and didn’t mind dying to most of these over and over again. It kept me engaged enough to conquer the challenge. Those platforming sections while avoiding enemy attacks were quite tense too and I was getting better at dealing with Cyberdemons in general. However one section bothered me a lot: I personally did not enjoy the Cyberhellbaron fight in its current form and only managed to beat that section through sheer luck. It felt like a massive difficulty spike out of nowhere compared to everything else before and after. Each of those were tough but a fair challenge. The problems I faced here though is there are too many projectiles taking up all movable space and nothing to use as cover since all angles are being blasted. It's very difficult to avoid taking damage here, having to ration out the health/armour power-ups just before dying acting as an extra life. Amongst the mess of attacks I also have to look out for any Cyberdemon rockets which were hard to see in this situation. I couldn’t kill the Cyberhellbaron’s fast enough to minimise damage. Even if there’s infighting I’m still constantly surrounded by projectiles, some which melt you down. It seemed like nowhere was ever safe no matter how hard I tried and this was simply a battle of attrition. Either I’m not good enough for this fight or the combat setup has been overtuned. I came across quite a lot of issues dotted across the level and probably missed a lot more. Here’s a basic breakdown of what I did find: 1) Missing textures. There's also HOMs on most of the monster/cage crushers across the map: 2) The edges where the doors used to be are missing: 3) Was this intentional? The floor height is different between silent teleports: 4) There might be more of these, relatively minor issue but I noticed them anyway, looks like a copy-paste placement without adjusting the ceiling height: 5) This door doesn’t open properly if the crusher is too low. There was a switch in here I could press to open the barrier but it wasn’t visible for me: 6) The 6 key door is also set to DOOR ONCE & OPEN WAIT CLOSE on both sides, making backtracking impossible without noclipping when you’re ready to return: 7) Enemies here don't respond until I lower this barrier, but I can still hurt and kill them from here: 8) The Cacos get stuck on these portal exits and don’t move, just float up and down. I think their collision box is stuck in the walls: 9) There’s also two Imps stuck in the same room with the Cacos, their collision box is caught on the switch: 10) Not sure if you consider this a problem but it is a possible cheese tactic. I can avoid this fight by dropping into the pit and waiting until it arrives, allowing me to teleport out without engaging in the fight should I choose: I've managed to impliment on some of the feedback you gave me here & all the remaining feedback I have yet to follow up on from your notes on phase1. I've still got to impliment those self refrencing sector bridges in E2M3,the E2M4 lwr skill levels walkways, the balancing of the cyberhellbaron fight in E2M5 & the somehow disable the fight cheese you found in that same map, but this is still progress. The biggest change in this update is the one made to the lost soul as I've not only reduced it's HP greatly (to 40HP - 40% of the original), but have also then got to thinking about that thing you said when giving feedback to the E2M3 kitchen fight about how the lost souls don't have a projectile attack & therefore don't really serve much of a function & in so doing decided to give them 1 (sort of - more on that later) as well as also gave them this cool new yellow look: They now shot out 2 baron projectiles (one to their target's (usualy the player's) left & one to their right) after they die, but are apart from that more or less the same. The reasons I decided to give them this attack extend far outside just this one fight however (as I know that implimenting is something like this just for that, this late in would be foulish), as I feel this will not only make these lost souls more interesting & a bit more of a theat to fight, while not changing the balance too much (as most of the time you will be shoting at lost souls from their front from some distance away, meaning most of the time the projectiles will miss you anyway without you having to dodge out the way) but also make it so that 1 well placed lost soul kill and a bit of luck could potencialy enable you to take out a whole cluster... Updated ZIPs are as always in the OP. Also to quakis: you don't need to necesarly take these changed lost souls into account in the rest of your phase 2 playthrough if you don't want to as I imagine you already have a mid episode save & I don't want you to lose progress. Edited June 27, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 forgot to include some information... 0 Share this post Link to post
epicyolomaster420 Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) I've updated the zip's again and this update is pretty huge. I've recently finished up a map of mine that used to be in Cleanout that I threw out, due to not being close enough to done yet & made another masterpiece of a map from scratch, both for the RAMP2023 community project and decided to format them over from doom2 to doom1 & include them into Cleanout. On top of this I had also shuffled around some of the existing levels to make room for these 2 new maps and decided to due away with the name & label of bonus levels for episode4 and turn it into an official phase4 instead! Say hello therefore to the new & improved episode4, now called phase4: Hell-void hardship, and Cleanout's 2 newest maps: Spoiler Edited July 3, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 forgot to include some information... 1 Share this post Link to post
Recommended Posts