elio_2.exe Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) Hi everyone! I decided to give this mapset thing another try, so I decided to compile (for the 18th time already?) most of my maps (accounting for 15 in total, to be precise). 2 have been started from scratch, 1 pretty much finished (could be 3, if planning goes well). So, what should I expect from these maps/gameplay-wise? I love making teeny tiny techbase maps filled with cannon fodder and the usual imp and revenant. Recently, though, I discovered my love for vine textures and elaborate lighting, so feel free to check how those work out in the maps. Exhibit A: Smooth light transition in Doom 2 format :D Spoiler I also love making rocky textures that poop out flying foes, so keep an eye out for those! Spoiler Difficulty and length-wise, most maps won't go over 20 minutes, and have a pretty much accessible difficulty. Estimated time for completion is 15*16 (you can just skip map 14), being, ay, exactly 4 hours! 15 is the average minutes you'll spend per map (since 01, 02 and 06 at the top of my mind are pretty short). Ahem, some time ago, I released a mapset that is virtually almost the same as this one, called... ugh "Forsaken Archaism". That, ofc is a lazy title I will change, but this is an update to that. Update how? Lost of visual changes, mainly in- you guessed it- lighting! Map order was tweaked, but I still can't tell which level is harder and which one isn't. Perhaps that's what I need help the most with. The 2 new maps are added in slot 06 and 14, with IDK being a map only accessible through ports that have a console, amirite? It's lame, anyways, so no need to check it out. Also the other maps I released, Septicanaktoron and Colder Shoulder are there, of course. Map 11 and 16 are incomplete, because they need a visual update (16 is begging for a gameplay one as well). Monster updates I should know of? You bet. There's the Auto-Shotgun Guy, replacing the SS guys, with a much deadlier attack, cycling through Super Chaingun and Normal Chaingun shots, meaning he's a SMM/Chaingunner glass canon hybrid. Devastating close range. I also buffed the arachnotron, bc I'm biased and I love them. What time is it now? Time for screenshots. I'm keeping it at one per map, ofc! Spoiler Like the screenshots? Check it out and feedback pls I feel like I forgot something, but idk what. Recap: Limit-removing, tested on Prboom+ and GZDoom. Occupy maps 1-17. Custom textures and dehacked included. Average-sized maps with average difficulty and a weak spot for gradient lighting :D forsardefinitelymayhaps.zip Edited August 12, 2023 by elio_2.exe 12 Quote Share this post Link to post
needsF00DBadly Posted June 4, 2023 Not a regular playtester, but it looks promising from the screenshots. And a custom monster? I'll give it a playthrough. 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
elio_2.exe Posted June 5, 2023 12 hours ago, needsF00DBadly said: Not a regular playtester, but it looks promising from the screenshots. And a custom monster? I'll give it a playthrough. Thank you! Be careful of the custom monster, they're almost close range SMMs. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Wo0p Posted June 5, 2023 I doth shall play this thing and returneth with news GOD WILLING! Innit. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Wo0p Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) Roight! First off an image dump of bugs or referential material I'll accompany with a comment. Wow that's a longwinded way of saying, visual aid... ahhh... ANYWAY (In reverse order because I'm a nitwit): Spoiler Maybe I missed a step (Perhaps literally?) but I couldn't enter this yellow keydoor, but the door behind it opens :o This blue door closes after opening. And cannot be opened again? Now that I write it, maybe I just didn't go back and try the switch. Sorry if that's the case. Fell into a cosy little hidey hole of one of the Arachnotron ambushers near the exit here. Not so cosy when he started trying to murder me >:( Had to noclip out. I thought at first I had bugged this encounter but it fixes itself cos the door opens again after a while. I did it by NOT activating the teleporter after picking up the key. How? I think I was able to pick the key up without triggering the linedef? As far as I recall. Missing textures! D: Oh no more missing textures! D: Erm but reading the thread again is this why the map is considered unfinished? :o Map 16 I believe. Aaaahh triple whammy! ;_; I noticed in later levels when you make these crane openings there's a horizontal line extending to the roof instead of just a vanishing extendo-pylon. Had to stare at this one for like 10 minutes before remembering it's an image of a visual bug. I think its a monster hiding in the wall or something that is cycling its idle animation because its only visible in one frame. Not a big deal but there it is :) No bug here, just thought this mouthhole was neat. And later mouthholes :> Found this secret door because I'm awesome (By complete accident). Was that intentional? These chaingunning fools murdered each other by me going ten steps backwards after the trap was sprung. I mean its a hilarious solution but if its not intended maybe they need a slight offset. :D Got stuck here by going back to the left side of the cage which activated the doors again. A very enjoyable MEGAWAD and I suspect its also a hoot if played with Brutal Doom or similar if you're into that sort of thing. Decoration and architecture overall is on a higher level than official IWADS definitely but not trying to emulate ultrarealism. As someone who usually only loves ultrarealism I actually found your work enjoyable to be surrounded by and fight in and around. Good work :) I especially liked the green sky aesthetic of Episode 3. Good take on a hellish dimension! Gameplay! 7/10 arbitrary score from someone who only occassionally likes playing vanilla doom, so I'm rating it mostly on difficulty. I greatly appreciated you not relying too much on SURPRISE MONSTER CLOSET but instead interesting combat puzzles :) Health is just plentiful enough on UV to never be found wanting. It's another story with ammo though. Somewhere around map3-4 (Sorry can't remember) I was extremely low on ammo and only JUST got by for long enough to find more ammo in later levels. The same happened in map 14. And that's a good segueway into map 14. My least favourite map. In fact I dislike. It has mostly bulletsponge enemies making every fight a chore and every chaingunner you encounter is in a place you can't reach so you can't pick up their ammo, resulting in running out of ammo for all of your weapons. And the last part of the map around the yellow key and the exit is strangely void of enemies and fairly low on detail also. I dunno it feels unfinished. Also a strange exit :o nothing to indicate its an exit which surprised me. So despite the nitpicks I overall enjoyed my time with your maps. A solid 7-8 out of 10 :) Also imo the last map with the cyberdemon blocking the red exit was absolutely awesome :D Great pacing, combat puzzles and aesthetics. Edited June 6, 2023 by Wo0p 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
elio_2.exe Posted June 6, 2023 Spoiler 20 minutes ago, Wo0p said: Roight! First off an image dump of bugs or referential material I'll accompany with a comment. Wow that's a longwinded way of saying, visual aid... ahhh... ANYWAY (In reverse order because I'm a nitwit): Hide contents Maybe I missed a step (Perhaps literally?) but I couldn't enter this yellow keydoor, but the door behind it opens :o This blue door closes after opening. And cannot be opened again? Now that I write it, maybe I just didn't go back and try the switch. Sorry if that's the case. Fell into a cosy little hidey hole of one of the Arachnotron ambushers near the exit here. Not so cosy when he started trying to murder me >:( Had to noclip out. I thought at first I had bugged this encounter but it fixes itself cos the door opens again after a while. I did it by NOT activating the teleporter after picking up the key. How? I think I was able to pick the key up without triggering the linedef? As far as I recall. Missing textures! D: Oh no more missing textures! D: Erm but reading the thread again is this why the map is considered unfinished? :o Map 16 I believe. Aaaahh triple whammy! ;_; I noticed in later levels when you make these crane openings there's a horizontal line extending to the roof instead of just a vanishing extendo-pylon. Had to stare at this one for like 10 minutes before remembering it's an image of a visual bug. I think its a monster hiding in the wall or something that is cycling its idle animation because its only visible in one frame. Not a big deal but there it is :) No bug here, just thought this mouthhole was neat. And later mouthholes :> Found this secret door because I'm awesome (By complete accident). Was that intentional? These chaingunning fools murdered each other by me going ten steps backwards after the trap was sprung. I mean its a hilarious solution but if its not intended maybe they need a slight offset. :D Got stuck here by going back to the left side of the cage which activated the doors again. A very enjoyable MEGAWAD and I suspect its also a hoot if played with Brutal Doom or similar if you're into that sort of thing. Decoration and architecture overall is on a higher level than official IWADS definitely but not trying to emulate ultrarealism. As someone who usually only loves ultrarealism I actually found your work enjoyable to be surrounded by and fight in and around. Good work :) I especially liked the green sky aesthetic of Episode 3. Good take on a hellish dimension! Gameplay! 7/10 arbitrary score from someone who only occassionally likes playing vanilla doom, so I'm rating it mostly on difficulty. I greatly appreciated you not relying too much on SURPRISE MONSTER CLOSET but instead interesting combat puzzles :) Health is just plentiful enough on UV to never be found wanting. It's another story with ammo though. Somewhere around map3-4 (Sorry can't remember) I was extremely low on ammo and only JUST got by for long enough to find more ammo in later levels. The same happened in map 14. And that's a good segueway into map 14. My least favourite map. In fact I dislike. It has mostly bulletsponge enemies making every fight a chore and every chaingunner you encounter is in a place you can't reach so you can't pick up their ammo, resulting in running out of ammo for all of your weapons. And the last part of the map around the yellow key and the exit is strangely void of enemies and fairly low on detail also. I dunno it feels unfinished. Also a strange exit :o nothing to indicate its an exit which surprised me. So despite the nitpicks I overall enjoyed my time with your maps. A solid 7-8 out of 10 :) Also imo the last map with the cyberdemon blocking the red exit was absolutely awesome :D Great pacing, combat puzzles and aesthetics. Ohh thank you for all these insights! I noticed some embarrassingly amateurish oversights (Map6- red door opens the blue one as well *facepalm*) and falling in the arachnotron's hole (only because the linedef raising it is located beyond it). Also map 11, 14 and 16 need more work, hence the missing textures in map 16, lack of ammo and detail on map 14 and terrible texturing in map 11. Anyways, thanks again for taking the time to play the maps and write all this, pointing out weak points. You're a real champ ^>^ 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
Wo0p Posted June 6, 2023 Glad to be of service o7 Happy mapping! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
needsF00DBadly Posted June 7, 2023 Took my sweet time with it, but finally got around to playing through the WAD. I'm not really in a place to provide extensive critique on people's maps. Plus, I don't really have anything to add to Wo0p's coverage of the set. However, I would still like to share a few of my thoughts: - First of all, you weren't joking kidding about the custom monster; the boys in green can be absolutely brutal. The first one in Map 01 is quite a wake up call, and I always felt their usage in later levels was well balanced between challenging and fair. - The detailing in these levels is honestly remarkable. The various ways in which flying enemies would enter the map through caverns or from outside walls rather than simply teleport in felt very organic. I liked it a lot. One small nitpick is that I would get hung up on a lot of these small details, like floor lights or wall indentations. Perhaps an issue on my end? - The attention to lighting easy to appreciate, although there might have been one or two instances where it was too dark. Most dark areas featured some really clever lighting to guide me along the way, but there were one or two situations where it was too dark, made a bit frustrating when accomapnied with hitscanners. - In a handful of combat encounters, enemies were a bit eager to wipe eachother out, even on second playthroughs. - Naturally, to second Wo0p's point about the later teen maps, they do seem like they need some more polish. Overall, I had a lot of fun with this. There is a level and visual polish and detailing that is really easy to appreciate, and the gameplay flowed nicely for the most part, with some legitimately difficult and challenging segments. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes from here. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Ausara Posted June 8, 2023 I am writing short reviews for each map with notes if there were bugs. As well as a fda in dsdademo format, so you'll need dsda-doom to replay them. Overall it's a great techbase mapset with high quality detailing and lighting while not letting down in gameplay. MAP01: Spoiler fda: jwad01.zip A well done small techbase that introduces many of the recurrent elements in this mapset - Danger from rockey textures - Viney midtexes - Shootable secrets using gargoyles - corridors filled with fodder before an objective releases bigger foes. - Windows exposing new areas. and others. I played this first in HMP and then in UV. The difficulty is fair and fun for a first map. A few notes: - You force the player to hunt for a gun in UV as the map puts SS replacements before the player can get a shotgun or a chaingun. A good way to increase the difficulty in a map if the path for a gun is laid out and clear to see from the player view point. - The switch outside can be pressed thro the window. Not sure if intentional. - The bullet proof window sectors 122 and 249 have a weird visual effect when you look from the secret outdoor area. MAP02: Spoiler fda: jwad02.zip Decently sized but still relatively small techbase. Great detailing and lighting quality. A few things to say about this map: - Combat in tight sewers isn't bad in this map as the path in and out is navigable. - There is a visual bug in the blue key area. See screenshot - The sludge drip being a midtex is genius - I wasn't able to find the tunnel secret with the chaingunner at all. It's a good secret and someone who paid attention to that broken light could possible pick it up. Also makes the chaingun more exotic. - Color coded progression is nice especially when the general layout of the map doesn't hint strongly in any direction and/or involves backtracking Balance notes: - I somehow felt less ammo drought when playing on UV than HMP. Maybe it was because I was playing blind. - Floor closet ambushes see their first appearance - Rocket launcher and SSG both appear here - Almost all mid-tier enemies are used - Hitscanner ambushes are forgiving. - As opposed to the first map you do give a shotty at the start in UV - Guarding guns with high-damage monsters is a good way to incentivize the player to move more. See SSg and RL placement in this map. MAP03: Spoiler fda: jwad03.zip The level of detailing just gets better and better in every map. The geometry feels organic and the enemy placement flows well with it. A few notes: - Skill shot barrels are satisfying af - Progression is so fucking smooth. You see the objective (blue key) then you explore until you do a task (blue room switch) then the map gives a visual indication (wall raises exposing a corridor that leads you back). I didn't notice until now that progression is color coded as well. It just felt natural. - Cacos coming in as you make your way to the blue key works well as a timed threat, albeit they sometimes get stuck. - Things #26 and #22 (shotgunner and auto-shotty guy respectively) are stuck in UV. I assume #26 was not supposed to be in UV. - idk how I managed to miss the secret area. I looked at the sign and thought the decorations must be what brings me there. So when I saw that the poison sign in the arachno room and the no entry sign did nothing, I just left. - You don't need to have every linedef crossing the broken wall to activate tag 9. Just make one linedef not attached to any sector boundary like in the picture - Previous maps already established that rocky texture = danger. Knowing that forced me to opt for a strategy which is why I decided to run to a safe zone fast. Trusting that the map would give me one. It was immensely satisfying to run thro that final area. - Exit switch uses exit door but idk why I didn't realize it was an exit. Previous maps had a big exit sign for me to read I guess. - Auto-shotty guys have insane infight potential. They can wipe out groups of fodder all on their own. - Barons before the exit are boring. Same in last two maps I played HMP then UV Balance Notes: - In this map I started noticing the arachnos were buffed. I didn't know that before then so it threw me off a bit - Ammo is just enough for the map. No weapons above slot 5 yet. - Hitscanners are now more intimidating. They are either in towers or have some cover. - On top of the already introduced roster from previous maps we get the baron. Who only shows up to delay your exit. - Secret SSG nullifies non-secret SSG. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
Ausara Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) MAP04: Spoiler fda: jwad04.zip The darker more mouldy and destroyed techbase with a spooky midi and even spookier enemies. - The best map in the first 6 imo. Both in archeticture and gameplay. - Love how the chaingunner towers are reused. This time in a more dangerous environment. Balance: - Backpack isn't something you give for no reason. The enemy count doesn't really require you to carry that much. - Shells are again plenty. I managed to get out with 70+ shells on UV - Slot 6 is open for bsns. No cells tho. - The red key ambush is pretty mean and I like it. Great way to introduce the vile. - Once you give a blue armor all the green armor pickups in the map become useless. It deserves to be a secret. - Exit door requires red key which prevents it from being cheesed with platforming What are those btw? MAP05: Spoiler fda: jwad05.zip The level of detailing is still stellar but imo this map doesn't supersede the quality of the former maps. It has a shit ton more crates and no vine textures to be seen. - Windows are now part of the combat. (The window exposing two revenants from red key yard is one example) - This map has a not so bad switch hunt. You can easily find yourself falling in the right order without noticing it. - Significantly less secrets than usual - I missed both the box of bullets and the backpack in both runs. Also the hidden shellbox is annoying to get. - There's a texture misalignment and I think this shadow is a bit weird. - Rocky textures and vine textures are gone. Balance notes: - Shells are plenty. Too plenty even when I missed a few boxes in my blind playthrough. Probably cause I wanted to zerkpunch for fun - Weapons up to slot 6. More cells and rockets than the last map - Invul sphere shouldn't be there in UV, better if you replace it with a soul sphere. - Cacos are blocked by pinkies and can't really attack you right away. Rocketing the group is not fun cause autoaim forces you to shoot the ground. - I guess having some enemies be alerted if you walk too close to a window adds some complexity - Vile isn't as threatening is he was in the last map..... Help the guy with some pinkies or hitscanners - Less difficult than the last map. MAP06: Spoiler fda: jwad06.zip Suddenly the maps get smaller. Map05 felt smaller than Map04. Map06 albeit being as detailed as the rest, is still a disappointing downsize. It borrows heavily from the previous maps without anything fresh about it. - Vines and rocky textures are back, but they aren't used in a familiar way. - Rocky textures no longer indicate danger. Nor are they related to flying enemies at all - small secret switches see a return - It's not a sin for doors to be opened directly. The linedef closing the the red doors fucks with the muscle memory I have of taking a step back to gain momentum, cause when I do that I close the door and have to open it again. - Sectors #222 (blue door) and #15 (red door) share a tag, which can lead to a softlock if the player crosses linedef #613 which closes the blue door with no way of opening it again. - Archvile #131 is locked there. He's too tall for the gap. Balance notes: - The ambushes and combat here is more difficult than previous maps. - Arachnos can screw you up fast. - BFG hell yea. No RL tho. Would've been useful against the revs. - Hurt floor is good pressure. - Enemy placement is great - Ammo is scarce now in UV at least. - Pain elemental inside. A whole fight for just the four of those in UV. When you see those and fully expect it to be an ambush but nothing happens. Edited June 8, 2023 by Ausara 1 Quote Share this post Link to post
elio_2.exe Posted June 9, 2023 Spoiler On 6/7/2023 at 3:28 PM, needsF00DBadly said: Took my sweet time with it, but finally got around to playing through the WAD. I'm not really in a place to provide extensive critique on people's maps. Plus, I don't really have anything to add to Wo0p's coverage of the set. However, I would still like to share a few of my thoughts: - First of all, you weren't joking kidding about the custom monster; the boys in green can be absolutely brutal. The first one in Map 01 is quite a wake up call, and I always felt their usage in later levels was well balanced between challenging and fair. - The detailing in these levels is honestly remarkable. The various ways in which flying enemies would enter the map through caverns or from outside walls rather than simply teleport in felt very organic. I liked it a lot. One small nitpick is that I would get hung up on a lot of these small details, like floor lights or wall indentations. Perhaps an issue on my end? - The attention to lighting easy to appreciate, although there might have been one or two instances where it was too dark. Most dark areas featured some really clever lighting to guide me along the way, but there were one or two situations where it was too dark, made a bit frustrating when accomapnied with hitscanners. - In a handful of combat encounters, enemies were a bit eager to wipe eachother out, even on second playthroughs. - Naturally, to second Wo0p's point about the later teen maps, they do seem like they need some more polish. Overall, I had a lot of fun with this. There is a level and visual polish and detailing that is really easy to appreciate, and the gameplay flowed nicely for the most part, with some legitimately difficult and challenging segments. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes from here. Thank you for playing and for the review :* Points out the main weakness, which is infighting, so that'll be one of my objectives in the future. Spoiler On 6/8/2023 at 3:35 PM, Ausara said: I am writing short reviews for each map with notes if there were bugs. As well as a fda in dsdademo format, so you'll need dsda-doom to replay them. Overall it's a great techbase mapset with high quality detailing and lighting while not letting down in gameplay. MAP01: Reveal hidden contents fda: jwad01.zip A well done small techbase that introduces many of the recurrent elements in this mapset - Danger from rockey textures - Viney midtexes - Shootable secrets using gargoyles - corridors filled with fodder before an objective releases bigger foes. - Windows exposing new areas. and others. I played this first in HMP and then in UV. The difficulty is fair and fun for a first map. A few notes: - You force the player to hunt for a gun in UV as the map puts SS replacements before the player can get a shotgun or a chaingun. A good way to increase the difficulty in a map if the path for a gun is laid out and clear to see from the player view point. - The switch outside can be pressed thro the window. Not sure if intentional. - The bullet proof window sectors 122 and 249 have a weird visual effect when you look from the secret outdoor area. MAP02: Reveal hidden contents fda: jwad02.zip Decently sized but still relatively small techbase. Great detailing and lighting quality. A few things to say about this map: - Combat in tight sewers isn't bad in this map as the path in and out is navigable. - There is a visual bug in the blue key area. See screenshot - The sludge drip being a midtex is genius - I wasn't able to find the tunnel secret with the chaingunner at all. It's a good secret and someone who paid attention to that broken light could possible pick it up. Also makes the chaingun more exotic. - Color coded progression is nice especially when the general layout of the map doesn't hint strongly in any direction and/or involves backtracking Balance notes: - I somehow felt less ammo drought when playing on UV than HMP. Maybe it was because I was playing blind. - Floor closet ambushes see their first appearance - Rocket launcher and SSG both appear here - Almost all mid-tier enemies are used - Hitscanner ambushes are forgiving. - As opposed to the first map you do give a shotty at the start in UV - Guarding guns with high-damage monsters is a good way to incentivize the player to move more. See SSg and RL placement in this map. MAP03: Reveal hidden contents fda: jwad03.zip The level of detailing just gets better and better in every map. The geometry feels organic and the enemy placement flows well with it. A few notes: - Skill shot barrels are satisfying af - Progression is so fucking smooth. You see the objective (blue key) then you explore until you do a task (blue room switch) then the map gives a visual indication (wall raises exposing a corridor that leads you back). I didn't notice until now that progression is color coded as well. It just felt natural. - Cacos coming in as you make your way to the blue key works well as a timed threat, albeit they sometimes get stuck. - Things #26 and #22 (shotgunner and auto-shotty guy respectively) are stuck in UV. I assume #26 was not supposed to be in UV. - idk how I managed to miss the secret area. I looked at the sign and thought the decorations must be what brings me there. So when I saw that the poison sign in the arachno room and the no entry sign did nothing, I just left. - You don't need to have every linedef crossing the broken wall to activate tag 9. Just make one linedef not attached to any sector boundary like in the picture - Previous maps already established that rocky texture = danger. Knowing that forced me to opt for a strategy which is why I decided to run to a safe zone fast. Trusting that the map would give me one. It was immensely satisfying to run thro that final area. - Exit switch uses exit door but idk why I didn't realize it was an exit. Previous maps had a big exit sign for me to read I guess. - Auto-shotty guys have insane infight potential. They can wipe out groups of fodder all on their own. - Barons before the exit are boring. Same in last two maps I played HMP then UV Balance Notes: - In this map I started noticing the arachnos were buffed. I didn't know that before then so it threw me off a bit - Ammo is just enough for the map. No weapons above slot 5 yet. - Hitscanners are now more intimidating. They are either in towers or have some cover. - On top of the already introduced roster from previous maps we get the baron. Who only shows up to delay your exit. - Secret SSG nullifies non-secret SSG. And thank you for giving detailed reviews and even demos on each map, I'll try to get to them once I'm home. Really pointed out how the map order is kind of odd, so I'll try and figure it out. Actually, map 6 is kind of broken, which I only noticed after releasing this. Guess I should've searched for bugs more, but when you know the layout, it's easy to miss things like that. And you're supposed to choose between the rocket launcher and the soulsphere in this map. Grabbing one lowers bars on the other one (they count as the same sector, so 100% secrets is possible). Again, thank you for the very detailed reviews :* 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
elio_2.exe Posted June 14, 2023 Bumping bc map 14 got an update. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post
elio_2.exe Posted August 12, 2023 Smol bump cos smol update (not that smol tho) 0 Quote Share this post Link to post
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