What are the reasons to play other ports except GZDOOM?

[Croaker]

By this question I do not imply some kind of GZDoom supremacy. There are numerous ports around the internet and since they're popular enough, they probably have their advantages.
I am just interested, what are these advantages and why some people prefer other ports over GZDOOM.
What I've already discovered:
1. Purism. Some people just want to play DOOM as it was intended back at the 90x (Although I do not fully understand this one. Doesn't GZDoom allow turning most of "modern" features off?)
2. Multiplayer. Some ports, designed specifically for multiplayer, have much better code and more active (by means of multiplayer) community.
3. Optimization. GZDoom is a relatively "heavy" port, so some owners of potato PCs prefer to use ZDoom or LZDoom for better performance.
4. Speedrunning. It requires demo recording and even minor differences in code or RNG can break them easily.
Are there any other reasons, why one can decide to use a different port instead of GZdoom? Are there any reasons for an average casual player to look at other ports?

 

 

EDIT: This thread made me look differently at source ports.

Tried a lot of them these days, following recommendations of people and realized, gzdoom might be my least favorite port for vanilla gameplay (although I do not want to detract its contribution to modding community. We have a lot of great mods thanks to GZ).

 

But this thread turned into a mess and it's getting progressively harder to find useful information in it, so I want to make a quick summary for people, who might have the same question, as I did.

So, scraping all the information I've got here, I'd split doom source ports to a few different categories with different auditory in mind:

1. Chocolate doom and its forks (mainly crispy doom), feature gameplay as close to original, as possible, with improved code and some of quality of life changes.

I'm not sure, who, except for people, feeling nostalgic, might play it as their main port. However, it indeed has its charm (and I think I'm going to return to it, from time to time) and has the best compatibility with vanilla wads.

2. "Slightly modified" doom source ports, like prboom and its forks. They're NOT a single family, having its roots in one project, I don't remember, which one comes from where and I don't care enough to remember. Their main difference are changes in source code, allowing to run wads, impossible in vanilla game due to hard coded limitations. Also, some of them feature more of quality of life changes, oftentimes additional features, like freelook or alternative renderer.

However, they stay faithful to their origin (at least, to some extent) and have gameplay, very close to the original.

Forks of this type, mentioned more often in this thread:

- Woof!

- DSDA

- PRBoom+

3. Heavily modified doom ports:

GZDoom family, Zandronum, Eternity.

I feel like most of newcomers, trying DOOM for the first time, come to one of these.

These ports have the best modifications support and people create impressive things with those.

Due to their nature as "feature heavy" ports, they might not be the best suited to vanilla gameplay.

Physics, monster behavior, controls, RNG might feel different from the original. Optimization is going to suffer, often unnecessarily.

4. Some unique works:

Some ports don't fall under any of these categories and have sets of features, noticable even for inexperienced users.

Doom retro is one of these.

Another one is Helion.

There probably are more, but I'm not encyclopedia :D.

 

I might miss on something or mistake some things, but I hope it can give general directions to people, who stuck with their first choice port and want to try more.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Croaker
Made a summary of what I've learned in this thread

[dasho]

Port-exculsive content, although that is a bit of a "chicken and egg" problem.

[TasAcri]

Just today i was reading about some controversy in the GZDoom discord. Seems like some GZDoom users got annoyed with the lgbtq pandering in their channel? So i guess that's another reason.

[s4f3s3x]

Primarly the game experience each port allows you to have that might fit your taste, and overall design/UX quality of the program.

Edited June 4, 2023 by s4f3s3x

[Biz!]

Better Vanilla Accuracy

[Individualised]

37 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

Just today i was reading about some controversy in the GZDoom discord. Seems like some GZDoom users got annoyed with the lgbtq pandering in their channel? So i guess that's another reason.

I think OP is looking for legitimate gameplay reasons that someone may choose to use an alternate port, not snowflakes getting offended over something that doesn't really affect them.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Individualised

[Andrea Rovenski]

1 hour ago, Croaker said:

1. Purism. Some people just want to play DOOM as it was intended back at the 90x (Although I do not fully understand this one. Doesn't GZDoom allow turning most of "modern" features off?)

no, the fundamental physics of GZDoom is completely changed. It's more similar to something like quake 2 than doom, actually, in how the game feels, plays, and behaves. As a speedrunner who has played both, I can assure that GZDoom control and feel is a lot less precise and consistent overall, too.

 

As for the other reasons, mostly correct, I think, but the larger picture being missed here is that GZDoom is not some magical port that can do everything, too, it's almost at this point a separate ecosystem in a lot of ways compared to more traditional ports. Not a bad thing, but there are now, more than ever, just different audiences being served. 

 

42 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

Just today i was reading about some controversy in the GZDoom discord. Seems like some GZDoom users got annoyed with the lgbtq pandering in their channel? So i guess that's another reason.

what could possibly motivate someone to post such a thing? "lgbtq pandering"? Do you listen to yourself? This is a doom website.

[Liberation]

Stick to the topic please folks, not what is going on in some discord.

[Doomkid]

Performance is a huge one for me. I was comparing ports side by side lately and was blown away by how tiny Odamex’s resource usage was in particular! (but it doesn’t have player skins like (G)ZDoom 😔)

[Ozcar]

Movement.
I dont why, but gzdoom movement feel like... i dont know... slippery?

[Master O]

1 hour ago, Croaker said:

By this question I do not imply some kind of GZDoom supremacy. There are numerous ports around the internet and since they're popular enough, they probably have their advantages.
I am just interested, what are these advantages and why some people prefer other ports over GZDOOM.
What I've already discovered:
1. Purism. Some people just want to play DOOM as it was intended back at the 90x (Although I do not fully understand this one. Doesn't GZDoom allow turning most of "modern" features off?)
2. Multiplayer. Some ports, designed specifically for multiplayer, have much better code and more active (by means of multiplayer) community.
3. Optimization. GZDoom is a relatively "heavy" port, so some owners of potato PCs prefer to use ZDoom or LZDoom for better performance.
4. Speedrunning. It requires demo recording and even minor differences in code or RNG can break them easily.
Are there any other reasons, why one can decide to use a different port instead of GZdoom? Are there any reasons for an average casual player to look at other ports?

 

Some very old Doom mods, like Batman Doom, don't play well with GZdoom:

 

https://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/index.php/Batman_Doom

 

The source port Chocolate Doom fully supports it.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Master O

[s4f3s3x]

Just now, Ozcar said:

Movement.
I dont why, but gzdoom movement feel like... i dont know... slippery?

 

This is a weird one. To me GZD always felt so smooth and precise! Eternity is the one that I would describe as slippery

[Croaker]

15 minutes ago, Individualised said:

I think OP is looking for legitimate gameplay reasons that someone may choose to use an alternate port, not snowflakes getting offended over something that doesn't really affect them.

Problems of LGBTQ community have as strong connection to DOOM as National Corn Growers Association's problems.
And, in the context, bother me as much as the latter. So yeah, I agree on that.

6 minutes ago, Andrea Rovenski said:

no, the fundamental physics of GZDoom is completely changed. It's more similar to something like quake 2 than doom, actually, in how the game feels, plays, and behaves. As a speedrunner who has played both, I can assure that GZDoom control and feel is a lot less precise and consistent overall, too.

That's a great reason, actually.
If I want to see this "classic" game behaviour, but do not want to get radical and download DOSBOX/Chocolate Doom, what ports should I look at?
As far as I understood, GZdoom is a base for many other active ports, so just picking a random one might not suit this purpose.

[Sena]

If I'm playing a limit-removing level, Crispy is my personal choice, and I suppose 'feeling' isn't exactly an ideal argument over something more factual, but the movement in Crispy feels a lot more fluid to me, although it's somewhat set back by the fists seeming to take 5 tries just to hit anything I want them to. Boom seems to be the most popular sourceport that isn't GZDoom, but I could never really get into it, something about it just doesn't feel right, so I guess like anything it just comes down to personal preference.

[WorldMachine]

3 minutes ago, Sena said:

If I'm playing a limit-removing level, Crispy is my personal choice, and I suppose 'feeling' isn't exactly an ideal argument over something more factual, but the movement in Crispy feels a lot more fluid to me, although it's somewhat set back by the fists seeming to take 5 tries just to hit anything I want them to. Boom seems to be the most popular sourceport that isn't GZDoom, but I could never really get into it, something about it just doesn't feel right, so I guess like anything it just comes down to personal preference.

Completely agree, Crispy is also my port of choice. Tried to play dsda doom and while it had cool features, they were only gameplay and speedrun things I didn't understand. Crispy DOOM is more about the experience, and it's simplicity, rather than trying to do a thousand things to it's gameplay to "make it viable for speedruns".

[WorldMachine]

It can also run on a Raspberry Pi at 60fps so yeah, screw GZDOOM.

[LuzRoja29]

my pc cant run gzdoom very well, so zandronum wins

[indigotyrian]

19 minutes ago, Croaker said:

If I want to see this "classic" game behaviour, but do not want to get radical and download DOSBOX/Chocolate Doom, what ports should I look at?

As far as I understood, GZdoom is a base for many other active ports, so just picking a random one might not suit this purpose.

 

DSDA-Doom and its predecessor PRBoom+ have been designed specifically for demo compatibility -- in short, this means that the game's underlying mechanics behave exactly as the original game did. As the name "DSDA-Doom" implies this is of primary benefit to speedrunners who need the demo feature, but its high accuracy makes it very well-liked among non-speedrunners looking for a "purist" experience with some more dipping mustards over Vanilla or Chocolate Doom. Demos are also very helpful for playtesters and mappers for easy recording and playback of test play sessions to tweak design, so DSDA-Doom gets a lot of use there too.

 

As far as game accuracy goes GZDoom is actually on the lower end of the spectrum. Other ports like Crispy, Doom Retro (my personal favorite), Woof, Eternity, Odamex, etc. aren't as dialed in as DSDA but generally offer a closer experience than GZDoom does. GZDoom's strength comes in its wide range of modding features (DEHACKED, ACS, DECORATE, ZScript, UDMF, etc. etc.), which if you think about it doesn't exactly synergize with "Doom exactly how it was in 1993." This isn't to say that GZDoom is so wildly off-base as to be worthless for a "true Doom experience," indeed it's good enough for most people.

Edited June 4, 2023 by segfault

[Wo0p]

6 minutes ago, WorldMachine said:

It can also run on a Raspberry Pi at 60fps so yeah, screw GZDOOM.

 

They be fightin' words, boi! *Prepares boxing gloves*

[D4NUK1]

GZDoom feels slippery when you play in DSDA or PrBoom.

[Croaker]

9 minutes ago, segfault said:

As far as game accuracy goes GZDoom is actually on the lower end of the spectrum. Other ports like Crispy, Doom Retro (my personal favorite), Woof, Eternity, Odamex, etc. aren't as dialed in as DSDA but generally offer a closer experience than GZDoom does. GZDoom's strength comes in its wide range of modding features (DEHACKED, ACS, DECORATE, ZScript, UDMF, etc. etc.), which if you think about it doesn't exactly synergize with "Doom exactly how it was in 1993." This isn't to say that GZDoom is so wildly off-base as to be worthless for a "true Doom experience," indeed it's good enough for most people.

DSDA and PRBoom are pretty clear to me, but I am curious about Doom retro. 
The list of features looks pretty interesting, but what's with optimization? Is it on heavier side, like GZDoom?

[indigotyrian]

1 minute ago, Croaker said:

DSDA and PRBoom are pretty clear to me, but I am curious about Doom retro. 
The list of features looks pretty interesting, but what's with optimization? Is it on heavier side, like GZDoom?

 

Optimization-wise I can't really say definitively, but I do know that Doom Retro is based on Chocolate Doom and specifically uses software rendering. Some features like the blood splats can cause problems when playing slaughter maps but they can be turned off easily. From what I understand it handles the game pretty well all things considered. Might be worth giving it a shot and putting it through its paces to see how it performs for you.

[SilentD00mer]

36 minutes ago, Ozcar said:

Movement.
I dont why, but gzdoom movement feel like... i dont know... slippery?

This. For me, the feel of mouse and movement is very weird for some reason.

[DRON12261]

- GZDoom, to my senses, has only one imitation of Doom left.

- Optimization that just isn't there at some points. Overall, it's a pretty "heavy" port.

- A huge number of settings that are completely unnecessary to Doom and which, moreover, break it (why the hell does Doom need Build-like sector lighting, which is also broken). And also absolutely idiotic default settings that discourage me from using UDMF in mapping. And also the utterly horrible OpenGL rendering, where the authors put a huge dick in making it look like Doom. And yes, technically you can dig into the settings and make it look close to the original (OpenGL Renderer, software has even worse optimization, at least in my experience), but your players are unlikely to sweat about it since not many will read the README, I'm not talking about trying to bother adjusting the port to the needs of the map. As a result, I simply can't guarantee the player the proper quality they need to see on their screen that I intended. The map on Boom, etc. can easily be run on other ports, where everything will go exactly as the author intended. 

I love GZDoom as a modder (although I do mods for Zandronum, BRUH, because GZDoom can't to multiplayer, although Zandronum is otherwise such a "masterpiece"), but I hate it as a mapper.

Edited June 4, 2023 by DRON12261

[Gothic]

What other ports have autosave/loads? Because that's the main reason I stick with GZDoom, that and great mouse controls, somehow GZDoom gets it just right compared to other ports.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Gothic

[Firedust]

ZDoom and GZDoom are my general go-to ports. However, because they aren't perfectly optimised, sometimes I use PrBoom+. I also do have Zandronum and dsda installed as well, for compatibility reasons of course!
Movement-wise and mouse-wise, I've always felt Eternity to be the clunkiest and it being a requirement is pretty much the only reason why I'd never play a Doom wad - I mean, I already have 6 sourceports installed, so that should generally suffice lmao

[AmethystViper]

I generally try to play vanilla Doom in either Woof or the Unity port, and it especially irks me that fanboys of GZDoom on Steam who treat it as the "THE ONLY PORT WORTH USING" are also quick to throw the Unity port under the bus because it can't play Brutal Doom or some other crazy mod that's outside the realm of possibility that vanilla ports can do (that being said, I wish the Unity ports could be patch to fix issues of running certain vanilla mods that crashes it, among other things). At the same time, sadly, GZDoom is the only port that I know of lets me use WADsmoosh so I can play all of the classic Doom games and expansions under one roof, plus I use it for DOOM CE since I do like having the customization and flexibility that project has to offer for PS1 Doom and Doom 64 if I want something different from their vanilla versions.

Edited June 4, 2023 by AmethystViper

[TasAcri]

14 minutes ago, DRON12261 said:

And also the utterly horrible OpenGL rendering, where the authors put a huge dick in making it look like Doom. And yes, technically you can dig into the settings and make it look close to the original (OpenGL Renderer, software has even worse optimization, at least in my experience), but your players are unlikely to sweat about it since not many will read the README, I'm not talking about trying to bother adjusting the port to the needs of the map. As a result, I simply can't guarantee the player the proper quality they need to see on their screen that I intended. The map on Boom, etc. can easily be run on other ports, where everything will go exactly as the author intended.

 

They should at least change OpenGL to Vulkan as the default. I only recently tried it because MyHouse performance was bad on my system and the difference was night and day. Vulkan was way faster, not just by a small percentage. In the big fights i'd say it was 2x faster.

[DRON12261]

3 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

 

They should at least change OpenGL to Vulkan as the default. I only recently tried it because MyHouse performance was bad on my system and the difference was night and day. Vulkan was way faster, not just by a small percentage. In the big fights i'd say it was 2x faster.

And yes, in a way it makes sense, but I just don't have Vulkan support on one PC. And since when did doom start requiring HIGH-END PC?

[TasAcri]

3 minutes ago, DRON12261 said:

And yes, in a way it makes sense, but I just don't have Vulkan support on one PC. And since when did doom start requiring HIGH-END PC?

 

To be fair, i only ever had issues with MyHouse, speed wise. And the later maps in Sunder. So its just those two wads. And my PC was a midrange 8 years ago :P

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by TasAcri