Pistol start alternatives

[UnknDoomer]

I was wondering today which it might be, if not count continuous play. So, I came to such idea - what about if doomguy would get all weapons at the start with full ammo packages, but there will be zero ammo on the level in overall, so player must plan carefuly where and one use specific one. Next level starts - progress is reset to similar.

 

Does any wads applied something like this before? There were some experiments in case of health, like this one, but still quite rare kind.

Edited June 11, 2023 by UnknDoomer

[spineapple tea]

That sounds like an impossible challenge for larger maps. Even on a baby's first slaughter map, Go 2 It, 14 BFG shots is just not enough to if you're going for UV max. For smaller maps like those in the first Doom it might be a fun challenge, especially considering that berserk will pulverize anything smaller than a baron.

Edited June 11, 2023 by spineapple tea

[Lucius Wooding]

I'm assuming OP isn't talking about maxing things, but more as a survival run. This concept can probably be fun on a number of maps but I think it'd be better to play stuff where it has this style in mind rather than apply it to random ones. For example having a whole WAD of maps built in this style might be better than using it as a mod since most large and heavily populated maps would become not too different from playing pacifist since you'd run out of ammo quickly. Personally I think it'd be best suited to speedrunning episodes of shorter maps as a bit of a gauntlet. A set like Scythe 1 might be great for something like this if you tailored the parameters of the challenge well enough.

 

Something like Plutonia with mostly shorter maps would probably do okay with this also on a single map basis, since I could picture a full ammo stash lasting long enough to reach the exit on every map at least (maybe not 32), but the difficulty is still there. This is a concept that's more of a routing exercise but the amount of ammo and which maps it applies to are a bit arbitrary. In practice trying to route pacifist is often a more common pursuit since killing no monsters has a nicer ring to it than killing some monsters. It's a bit more challenging to play with limited ammo but it doesn't really require big brain strats like pacifist. If you're not optimizing for something, whether it be routing for speed or trying to minimize combat with pacifist, then the strategy the challenge requires is kind of limited and it's just a regular let's play with less ammo but you can skip large areas of many maps. The reason categories like pacifist and speedruns get competition is that the rules are compelling and people agree on them. If you think everyone should be playing like this, then it's up to you to set some ground rules and make a few demos or videos showing why it's cool and possibly better than existing playstyles. It'll either catch on or it won't. I mean hell, people play meme categories like stroller and crab so why not?

 

The Mucus Flow (Community Chest 2 map 24) is a pretty famous one that mostly adheres to this concept by design and makes getting all kills very tough. You essentially have almost all the supplies in the starting area of a pretty decent sized map and you have to backtrack through dangerous areas and make efficient trips to progress. It usually forces the player to go very slow and rely on meleeing enemies even though the opposition isn't that heavy since each point of damage and missed shot feels very punishing. The MIDI is an all time banger too. It's a weird one and not easy but definitely a must play just to get the experience and appreciate the oddball design choices that work well.

 

Generally though from a design standpoint I like placing ammo throughout the level for a few reasons:

 

The best thing about pistol starts is the sense of progression going beyond the key collection and navigating the map. You start with nothing and really have pressure to explore until you find decent guns and enough ammo to fight properly. It forces a bit of creativity that continuous takes away IMO. Each weapon you find on your route actually matters since it's another useful tool for certain situations and you have to make do. Maybe the best gun you can find on your blind run is a chaingun and you're forced to make tough choices about which monsters to snipe. Plus certain monsters can totally change depending on what guns you have. That Hell Knight or Pain Elemental becomes a serious threat if you only have a shotgun or pistol, but the instant you find something decent you can grab it and turn the tables. Plus the berserk is way nicer with pistol starts since you're not swimming in leftover ammo and lugging a spare plasma rifle; it becomes a completely viable weapon to rely on and rewards a tyson playstyle for at least a section of a map. Since you don't carry over spare ammo, pistol starting makes finding ammo as important and rewarding as finding weapons.

 

For one thing it's a great way to motivate the player to explore and look for secrets. Shotgunning a baron? That's usually a chore. But not having the ammo to deal with him and needing to squeeze past to get to an area with supplies? Much better design. It turns the encounter from just a shooting gallery to something a bit more dynamic because traversing the map is so much more important.

Spoiler

One of my favorite games ever is Resident Evil Remake and it was all about this. You had to traverse the map and figure out an efficient route, since the monsters would cost you health and ammo and you couldn't always avoid them. If you just ran around with no plan you'd get rekt by some zombies, and there are a bunch of scripted encounters that spice things up as well. Of course, if you fought things too much you'd also be punished in a particularly malicious way; enough said. The lower skill settings would make you constantly awash in health and ammo unfortunately, but actually due to the limited inventory many a newb would screw themselves by picking too much stuff up. You had to manage your resources and decide which monsters to fight, which ones to dodge, and when to just take a bite from them and push through. And the less weapons and health you carry the faster you can gather key items for progression as well. If you got into an area but had no space for a key item, you'd be forced to backtrack to drop stuff off, all the while passing through zombie infested areas an extra time. Very manageable game if you know what you're doing; it's not even a matter of skill, but blind runs become very interesting to watch since they suffer every pitfall imaginable.

 

Sometimes it makes sense lore wise to place ammo in certain places based on the storytelling of the map. Other times it might make sense to drop the player in fully loaded at the start. 

 

And finally, it just makes the map feel empty a lot of times if half the rooms have nothing in them at all. There's no reason to visit or appreciate many of the rooms in a lot of maps. It might be a good concept to spice up the IWADs that we know so well already, but you'd be cutting out a lot of gameplay. Imagine running Shores of Hell, you'd skip 90% of the rooms and hardly have to fight any of the major encounters until the end.