Do you cheese it a bit when playing a hard wad or is it 100 % cheatless when playing?

[Stroggman]

Well I will cheese it a bit, I accept the fact that I'm not gonna win every fight and the main reason to play doom is to have-fun

Edited June 17, 2023 by Stroggman
Reword

[Gentlepoke]

How would you define "cheesing"?

[Stroggman]

4 minutes ago, Gentlepoke said:

How would you define "cheesing"?

The term cheesing is often used in the context of doom to refer to a tactic or strategy that is considered unfair or cheap. This term comes from the fact that such tactics are often seen as a way to "cheat" or take advantage of the game's mechanics in order to gain an advantage over the monsters

Edited June 17, 2023 by Stroggman

[Gentlepoke]

Just now, Stroggman said:

The term cheesing is often used in the context of video games to refer to a tactic or strategy that is considered unfair or cheap. This term comes from the fact that such tactics are often seen as a way to "cheat" or take advantage of the game's mechanics in order to gain an advantage over other players.

Oh, that I know. I was referring to more what you would define as cheesing in the context of Doom?

[Lucius Wooding]

Cheesing and cheating are totally different things.

 

Cheesing is just taking advantage of any tactics you can that the mapper didn't prevent properly or anticipate, like running out of a fight and sniping everything from safety. Also using sequence breaks or skipping triggers for fights are a good example. I've also done things like using rocket splash damage to hit enemies that aren't awake yet, finding good spots where cyberdemons can't hit you, and the like. It's arguably cowardly but it's all done through gameplay and I consider it fair game, although I don't create content; it might be different for people who want their demos to be entertaining. I cheese every chance I get because I consider it playtesting and it's very satisfying to find exploits, and on hard maps it's somewhat necessary for me.

 

Cheating is using IDDQD or changing settings in the menus. That's not gameplay and therefore totally not legit. However I'll still do it sometimes for various reasons if needed, like if I want to practice or get softlocked or I don't care about beating the map any more. In some maps that are awful to play but look cool I'll also just put on cheats to check them out, though generally I prefer gameplay focused WADs.

[Stroggman]

2 minutes ago, Gentlepoke said:

Oh, that I know. I was referring to more what you would define as cheesing in the context of Doom?

 Well what I mean is sometimes in Doom you got to fight dirty as in using an ammo cheat, just call in for a resupply lol

[johnboy3434]

2 minutes ago, Gentlepoke said:

Oh, that I know. I was referring to more what you would define as cheesing in the context of Doom?

 

If I had to guess, it would be stuff like heavy reliance on peek-a-boo shots, taking advantage of monster-stopping lines in the map instead of getting into the middle of the fray like the WAD author probably intended, and just generally not ripping and tearing.

[RataUnderground]

Yeah, but not only on difficult maps. Whenever I can and whenever I need to. I try to have few hurdles, you know.

Edit: No cheat codes, that's not what I meant.

Edited June 17, 2023 by RataUnderground

[Gentlepoke]

Just now, johnboy3434 said:

 

If I had to guess, it would be stuff like heavy reliance on peek-a-boo shots, taking advantage of monster-stopping lines in the map instead of getting into the middle of the fray like the WAD author probably intended, and just generally not ripping and tearing.

Well, in that case? Who doesn't? Gotta stay alive after all!

 

In terms of using cheats, mostly if I want to go back through a map and want to work out where exactly the secrets were and how they are implemented.

[Stroggman]

Just now, RataUnderground said:

Yeah, but not only on difficult maps. Whenever I can and whenever I need to. I try to have few hurdles, you know.

I cheat cause I don't wanna be 100 % perfect like a doom god, I wanna have fun in doom

[WhateverComic07]

Cheese: absolutely. It's my main way of playing. Finding ways to break down something challenging into smaller more manegable parts is how I play, and if that involves sniping revenants from safety before I enter a room so be it.

 

Cheat: Almost never. Granted sometimes it's cathartic to run around a big boi mao with iddqd on and just go to town with idkfa every few minutes, but I don't do that too often, and I definately don't consider myself as having beaten the map when I do so. The only time I've ever considered a map beaten despite cheats was on my playthrough of the original scythe some monsters got stuck outside the map and I clipped outside to kill them.

[Mr Masker]

Sometimes if I die and I've forgotten to save earlier I'll resurrect myself with IDDQD. That's pretty much it.

[TasAcri]

Just save scumming.

[Legatron17]

I never cheat, and I don't really cheese either. For example, if there is an easy linedef skip or something that allows you to completely nullify the challenge of a fight, I don't do it. I think it's fine for speedrunning, sometimes even necessary, but when I'm just doing a normal run of the map for the first time, it simply feels wrong and unrewarding to throw out bits and pieces of the map's intended gameplay just because "you can".

[Horus]

I might cheese occasionally, but I have nothing on our resident cheesing expert @DemoGorgonZola ;)

[Gougaru]

It's more of a challenge I go for lately but..ever since I did uv plus wads where they just throw in cybers.. I like to see how bad they can be cheese since their placement most likely wasn't tested to much. Kind of a game 

[Stroggman]

Just now, Horus said:

I might cheese occasionally, but I have nothing on our resident cheesing expert @DemoGorgonZola ;)

I like to cheese occasionially if I was hanging on a thin thread, I save scum a lot and that prevents me from cheesing a lot, I enjoy tough hard combat!

[Sir Hattington]

If i'm able to cheese something than it's the map maker's fault and I can abuse it all I want.

[Stroggman]

6 minutes ago, Sir Hattington said:

If i'm able to cheese something than it's the map maker's fault and I can abuse it all I want.

Yeah same here cause I have found some map makers making their maps to the point of a player having to struggle like not many resources and stuff like not enough rad suits or ssg in a timed secret room that is hard to get at, I will certainly abuse it all I want.

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 hours ago, Stroggman said:

The term cheesing is often used in the context of doom to refer to a tactic or strategy that is considered unfair or cheap. This term comes from the fact that such tactics are often seen as a way to "cheat" or take advantage of the game's mechanics in order to gain an advantage over the monsters

 

And where's the arch vile who complained about your lack of decorum?

[AbeAwesome]

I think "cheesing" is more than fine, but on a first playthrough, I often feel (mildly) upset if I accidently sequence-break, as I lose out on the intended experience (still happens to me quite often in non-DOOM games, and sometimes it really sucks).

Cheating on the other hand is something I never feel happy about, because it just feels like giving up, and like it invalidates the rest of the playthrough—but I'll still cheat or edit a save if I soft-lock myself in a long WAD or game. Outside of normal play, I will often no-clip to figure out how a given map feature or structure was constructed (sometimes looking at it in game is clearer than looking at it in DOOM Builder).

 

At the same time, I am a big proponent of cheats existing in games, and I'm very unhappy with the fact that modern games often lack in-game cheats, or—in many recent releases—replace cheats with paid "DLC" or "micro"-transactions—that shit makes me mad, especially at the consumers who accept this as normal... but that's beside the point in a post about DOOM.

[Manny84]

I shamelessly save scum in games like Doom and Quake; I probably hit the F6 and F9 keys as many times as I click the left mouse button. Never had to outright cheat yet, but I've only really played vanilla stuff so far. Now that I'm starting to dip my toes into fanmade wads and finding them significantly harder, that may change. I'd sooner IDDQD to get through an impossible fight than spend hours of my limited free time replaying it over and over again.

[kwc]

I fondue.

I havartime playing most maps because I’m not very gouda Doom. I typically play aged level sets but when I’m feeling brieve, I’ll cheese through it and won’t even cheddar tear. I’m a particular fan of Swiss mappers as I tend to find holes in their level design, although I suspect they are just being curdeos to cheesers like me who just wanna cream some demons. To be honest I don’t know if I’m ferment to or not and I don’t care if I’m provolone on this issue because I ricotta play like this and I find it mozzarella fun.

 

Red Leicestershire.

[Burgish]

Might we not consider the scientific value of knowing how each and every room responds to a barrage of BFG shots?

[LadyMistDragon]

[kalensar]

The only cheese I use is weapons mods on slaughter wads that I want to enjoy such as hell Rider. Vice versa I also use monster mods on easier wads that have Superior architecture or geography. 

[eanasir]

8 hours ago, Lucius Wooding said:

Cheesing and cheating are totally different things.

 

Cheesing is just taking advantage of any tactics you can that the mapper didn't prevent properly or anticipate, like running out of a fight and sniping everything from safety. Also using sequence breaks or skipping triggers for fights are a good example. I've also done things like using rocket splash damage to hit enemies that aren't awake yet, finding good spots where cyberdemons can't hit you, and the like. It's arguably cowardly but it's all done through gameplay and I consider it fair game, although I don't create content; it might be different for people who want their demos to be entertaining. I cheese every chance I get because I consider it playtesting and it's very satisfying to find exploits, and on hard maps it's somewhat necessary for me.

 

Cheating is using IDDQD or changing settings in the menus. That's not gameplay and therefore totally not legit. However I'll still do it sometimes for various reasons if needed, like if I want to practice or get softlocked or I don't care about beating the map any more. In some maps that are awful to play but look cool I'll also just put on cheats to check them out, though generally I prefer gameplay focused WADs.

Lol I've had lots of parts of my WADs designed for a circle strafing battle and they just snipe from the door lol

[Logamuffin]

4 hours ago, kwc said:

I fondue.

I havartime playing most maps because I’m not very gouda Doom. I typically play aged level sets but when I’m feeling brieve, I’ll cheese through it and won’t even cheddar tear. I’m a particular fan of Swiss mappers as I tend to find holes in their level design, although I suspect they are just being curdeos to cheesers like me who just wanna cream some demons. To be honest I don’t know if I’m ferment to or not and I don’t care if I’m provolone on this issue because I ricotta play like this and I find it mozzarella fun.

 

Red Leicestershire.

 

I can’t tell if I should be mad at that shameless display of bad puns, or impressed. Maybe both.

[houston]

Yeah, custom mods made me start saving mid-map. Sometimes if I'm stuck in too tough of a spot I'll just accept the death and pistol start.

[Gez]

If cheesing is exploiting the limitations of monster AI such as using cover to break attacks, inciting infighting, or retreating behind lines they can't cross, then well yeah I cheese.

 

Cheating only as a shortcut/convenience when testing something in-game but not actually playing.