Do you cheese it a bit when playing a hard wad or is it 100 % cheatless when playing?

[MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai]

10 hours ago, kwc said:

 like me who just wanna cream some demons...

Very poor choice of words my friend

[Manny84]

1 hour ago, MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai said:

Very poor choice of words my friend

Maybe he's just an enjoyer of HDoom!

[Mr Masker]

12 hours ago, kwc said:

like me who just wanna cream some demons.

Creaming

[DemoGorgonZola]

21 hours ago, Horus said:

I might cheese occasionally, but I have nothing on our resident cheesing expert @DemoGorgonZola ;)

Occasionally? To paraphrase a classic "You gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers in this cheesing!" :p 

But yeah, guilty as charged, cheesing is life. While some maps are really best done "as intended" and yoloing a fight sometimes actually is the best approach, very often finding those little exploits is as fun as the main gameplay. Now comes the 'don't play a wad just once' mantra, too, because experiencing it on first try/blind is very different than later knowledgeable/prepared plays... and it comes up with cheesing as well, and in both ways - either exploit the living hell out of it to survive, or test new fun ways to dealing with fights.

Cheesing in blind may also be considered just outsmarting/fooling the mapper and some don't like it from this perspective (and often curb such attempts if caught in playtesting), but railroading the player in a fight - do as I wish or bust - is not the best approach to it IMO... Leaving some margin of freedom to handle stuff is good practice, but of course each player and/mapper may have different opinion of how much is enough.

[DemoGorgonZola]

-

Edited June 18, 2023 by DemoGorgonZola
edit: accidentally double posted

[kwc]

8 hours ago, MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai said:

Very poor choice of words my friend

Get your mind out of the Gouda

[Shakariki Heisenberg]

well i sometimes iddqd if im just abt to die and idclip if like lets say the room where the key is at is very far from the actual key door i just idclip to there, and when im playing on a port that supports jump i somestimes just jump over stuff so i can skip part of it

[xScavengerWolfx]

Well for me it more like if i'm not making a video on it then i won't use cheats unless it's stupid broken then i will. If it's not for a video then i use cheats and explore and see how the map was made.

[Stroggman]

I guess when you play map for first time it's ok to cheat a bit

[Manny84]

Actually just had to use IDDQD to progress for the first time in my Doom career! Playing a wad named Liminal Doom, and one part

Spoiler

locks you in a dark, cramped room with three archviles and assorted other enemies.

 

After 40-50 attempts that all ended with me dying in seconds, I gave up and godmoded through it. I'm decent enough at Doom, but I'm not good enough for whatever this particular map was expecting of me. I'd sooner move onto the next map than waste an entire night throwing myself at it over and over.

 

EDIT: Nvm, I replayed the map from the beginning and beat it pretty easily this time... I somehow didn't realise the first time that the archviles actually get released in stages, so if you can kill them quick enough you don't get surrounded. My bad!

Edited June 20, 2023 by Manny84

[Stroggman]

11 minutes ago, Manny84 said:

Actually just had to use IDDQD to progress for the first time in my Doom career! Playing a wad named Liminal Doom, and one part

  Reveal hidden contents

locks you in a dark, cramped room with three archviles and assorted other enemies.

 

After 40-50 attempts that all ended with me dying in seconds, I gave up and godmoded through it. I'm decent enough at Doom, but I'm not good enough for whatever this particular map was expecting of me. I'd sooner move onto the next map than waste an entire night throwing myself at it over and over.

Makes a whole lot of sense, sometimes you just got to cheese it and move on

[Manny84]

35 minutes ago, Stroggman said:

Makes a whole lot of sense, sometimes you just got to cheese it and move on

Indeed... although in this case I tried the map again from the start and beat it pretty quickly on the second attempt...

[SSG]

For Doom 1 and 2 I play UV and I pistol start when I die. For harder wads I play HMP and I do not pistol start on death. For Dke Nukem Christmas I saved between each encounter and still never finished because it was so annoying. Have not done this for Doom wads, except my first playthrough of Doom 1

[houston]

1 hour ago, Manny84 said:

  Hide contents

Locks you in a dark, cramped room with three archviles and assorted other enemies.

 

If you had that much trouble with -THAT- part, then how did you handle the ending of that particular map? I had to reload my quicksave maybe 20 times.

[Chookum]

If I've killed all the monsters on a map and can't find all the secrets, I may pull a cheeky IDDDT to track them down. It's a bad habit.

[Stroggman]

3 hours ago, Chookum said:

If I've killed all the monsters on a map and can't find all the secrets, I may pull a cheeky IDDDT to track them down. It's a bad habit.

I have IDDT turned on from the get go

[AbeAwesome]

6 hours ago, Stroggman said:

Makes a whole lot of sense, sometimes you just got to cheese it and move on

Except that what was described is cheating, not "cheesing." Nothing wrong with either, but let's not conflate the two.

 

The thread should have been called "I like using cheats when playing hard WADs, do you do the same?"

Instead of muddling the topic with imprecise, deceptive language... not that it matters much in any event.

Edited June 20, 2023 by AbeAwesome

[A Handsome Fridge]

Just answer the question on both subjects instead of arguing about semantics :D

Cheats: I always autosave so I don't feel it's cheating if I sometimes resurrect instead, heh. I will iddqd on slaughter(-ish) maps that take too long to wade through.

Cheese: Well if I can think of something and the map is giving me a hard time I will use cheese strategies when given the opportunity and notify the mapper their map is cheesable. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by A Handsome Fridge

[LoatharMDPhD]

On 6/18/2023 at 7:14 AM, Manny84 said:

Maybe he's just an enjoyer of HDoom!

// HDoom is harder than vanilla if you try for all possible glory holes... kills... that one; make ultra-violence not love...

[Manny84]

6 hours ago, houston said:

If you had that much trouble with -THAT- part, then how did you handle the ending of that particular map? I had to reload my quicksave maybe 20 times.

Nowhere near as hard. Plenty of space to run/dodge around in, loads of monster infighting, and a BFG given to you. Found it a breeze compared to the penultimate section.

[Yousuf Anik]

On 6/18/2023 at 12:31 AM, Mr Masker said:

Sometimes if I die and I've forgotten to save earlier I'll resurrect myself with IDDQD. That's pretty much it.

Sometimes I even use "Resurrect" command :D

[Kabal9955]

I usually save frequently when playing a hard WAD

[Chao-G]

If I've saved at some point where I'm softlocked in a level with single digit health points left, I sometimes, just sometimes might type IDDQD twice to get back to 100 health, but I never keep IDDQD switched on. I also might IDCLIP back on to ledges that I might fall off of while exploring, that demands some backtracking to get back on it. I usually do it when I have otherwise explored the entire level and am just rummaging for secrets.

[Mr Masker]

6 hours ago, Yousuf Anik said:

Sometimes I even use "Resurrect" command :D

I'm not sure if that's on stuff like DSDA Doom and Woof. Either way IDDQD does basically the same thing if you turn it off right after

[Stroggman]

15 hours ago, Kabal9955 said:

I usually save frequently when playing a hard WAD

Yeah same here like when in a safe area I will save at 50 hp, i save a lot and also I rewind a lot

[DoomPlayer00]

I'll always try to cheese fights if I can. Finding new & unconventional methods to handle combat scenarios is what keeps the gameplay fresh.

[Murdoch]

I only use cheats during beta testing. If I am playing legitimate, I either drop the skill or if even that does not work, I move on.

[RHhe82]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:24 AM, A Handsome Fridge said:

Cheats: I always autosave so I don't feel it's cheating if I sometimes resurrect instead, heh. I will iddqd on slaughter(-ish) maps that take too long to wade through.

But isn’t there a difference? Reloading makes you retry the section you failed at, resurrecting keeps the progress but erases ”mistakes” in your favor.

 

Personally I don’t cheat, except for IDDT’ing for missed secrets when I’ve completed a map otherwise. (And, if the secrets are un-backtrackable, I might IDCLIP thru the blocks, unless I’ve already decided to replay the map sooner or later). If the map’s too hard, it’s too hard, and I either lower the difficulty or give up.

 

Cheesing I will most certainly do, because that’s just utilizing existing mechanics to my advantage when I’m familiar with them. Unlike cheating, it’s not divine intervention from outside the game loop, but an desperate act of survival. To inject a little Star Trek reference:

 

- You’d shoot a man in the back?

- Well, it’s the safest way.

 

Besides, how can I be sure the mapper intended a cheese strategy to be used? I can’t. But I do know for (almost) certain the mapper didn’t design the encounter with IDDQD in mind.

Edited June 22, 2023 by RHhe82
Unfathomable typo

[ＤΞＬＴΛ]

IDKFA, IDDQD (in case of pain elemental shitstorm on the scale of "GO FUCK YOURSELF" levels of bullshit), resurrect, and a good power fantasy gameplay mod for an extra spicy experience!