[Final release] “Hell's Bane” - an Ult Doom megawad

[Chris Hansen]

Ohh man, @boris, where were you back 8 years ago when I released Monument! I could've used your critical eye back then , so I wouldn't have transferred these issues to Hell's Bane :) I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. I am still a little wary messing too much with the levels. I feel like an obscure secret or two is okay for a release that is supposed to reflect 25 years of level designing. But it goes without saying that it needs to be solvable of course.

 

1 hour ago, boris said:

Oh, and if it sounds like I'm just complaining - I am enjoying myself, otherwise I wouldn't be playing and recording it ;)

Yeah, stop it, man! Nahh, it's totally fine. I kinda figured you're enjoying it after all since you're still here :) Keep it coming - unless of course you run out of steam.

 

One question for you though in that regard: Should I release a RC2? There was a critical issue in E4M7 and I think that it warrants a new version, so that people can actually finish that level. @plums has located the error and helped me fix it. Huge shoutout to him!

Edited December 3, 2023 by Chris Hansen

[boris]

1 hour ago, Chris Hansen said:

I am still a little wary messing too much with the levels.

 

It wouldn't require changes to the progression, simply placing more chainguns in the different paths should be fine. E2M4 for example:
 

Spoiler

 

 

The right spot has about the same monster density as when going to the original chaingun spot. It'd also incentivize the player to move into the room quickly. The left spot is right in front of the elevator to the switch that lowers the yellow key, so the player has to go there. It might also be moved further north, maybe even on the floor level of the yellow key room.

 

1 hour ago, Chris Hansen said:

I feel like an obscure secret or two is okay for a release that is supposed to reflect 25 years of level designing.

 

It's not so much about the obscurity, but about the power the secrets provide. Again E2M4 as an example:

 

Spoiler

1. Berserk secret. Very easy to miss, but also not too powerful. Getting the health back to 100 can be useful, though
2. Blue armor secret. Very powerful. The room also got a medikit. There are 48 armor bonuses in the map, so the blue armor can potentially last very long. The only other armor is a green one. Pretty easy to spot, as long as you go in the optional teleporter.
3. North BFG switch. Not very powerful, ammo and a medikit. Pretty easy to spot
4. Plasma gun. Very powerful, as there is quite some cell ammo in the map (180-300+, depending if you explore everything or not). On its own it's not too obscure, and something that has been done in other maps in the pack before, what makes it obscure is the time between first seeing the plasma gun and being able to access it. The area is pretty dark, and I didn't even realize the room with the hidden switch became accessible
5. South BFG switch. Not very powerful, but it got a big cell ammo pack
6. BFG. Obviously very powerful. Can be accessed right before the big fight near the end. Pretty obscure
7. Soulsphere. This is an odd one. You can only access it when the map is pretty much over. But for continuous play it's obviously powerful, since it allows you to start the next map with up to 200 health

 

I will make quite the difference in this map if you find the blue armor, plasma, and BFG, or don't. That's why I prefer to have a "the journey is its own reward" approach in my own maps and just put weak items in the secrets. It just screws much less with the overall balance.

 

2 hours ago, Chris Hansen said:

One question for you though in that regard: Should I release a RC2? There was a critical issue in E4M7 and I think that it warrants a new version, so that people can actually finish that level. @plums has located the error and helped me fix it. Huge shoutout to him!

 

You can release as many RCs as you want, so just go for it.

[kalensar]

This is a really decent map set. Definitely going to add it to my mention list for Doom 1 megawads. 

[boris]

E2M4 also has some lines with the lower unpegged flag that probably shouldn't be set, as you can see them when the floors move. Here are the linedef numbers:

• 325
• 326
• 1703
• 1709
• 2612
• 1416, 1418, 1420, 1422, 1424, 2245, 2262, 2411, 2412, 2413, 2419, 2426, 2430, 2434, 2435 (they are all where you jump down after getting the rocket launcher)

 

[plums]

You should probably release an RC2 or at least a hotfix for E4M7 because it is unbeatable right now. I've found a few more very minor bugs (will post them later today) but nothing that can't be ignored.

Edited December 3, 2023 by plums

[plums]

All right, just finished it, great fun overall, a very well-crafted classic experience.

 

Some very minor bugs:

 

Weird horizon and slime trail glitches in (I think) E3M7. Probably don't show up if you use GL rendering.

Bigger image: https://i.imgur.com/3jpuxW8.png

 

A sky bug in E4M1 where the sky hack can cut off an imp sprite, could just add a block linedef to stop him wandering that far

 

A bunch of your multi-sector lifts can be partly split by bumping your head against the ceiling while on only one sector of the lift. Here's one in E4M6 I think. Pretty minor but IMO any time you have a multi-sector action you should texture all the upper/lower linedefs as appropriate, just in case a cheeky guy like me figures out how to separate them.

 

E4M8 has a bunch of slime trails in the final arena, dunno if you can do much about that because of the level geometry, might be worth trying out other node builders though and see if any produce better results?

 

E4M1 gives an error about a missing RROCK16 flat. E4M4 gives a bunch about missing MFLR8_2 flats. I didn't notice anything weird visually so these are probably in non-visible errors in game but it should be easy to fix them with a find->replace.

 

Great stuff overall, and hats off to the in-development testers and composers that were a part of this. An excellent Chris Hansen retrospective and highly recommended for anyone who likes classic Doom gameplay.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by plums

[Chris Hansen]

17 hours ago, boris said:

It wouldn't require changes to the progression, simply placing more chainguns in the different paths should be fine

Way ahead of you. Based on your last feedback I had already placed CGs in the map. Almost in the exact same spot as you suggested in your screenshot :)

 

16 hours ago, boris said:

E2M4 also has some lines with the lower unpegged flag

I will take a look at it.

 

16 hours ago, plums said:

You should probably release an RC2 or at least a hotfix for E4M7 because it is unbeatable right now

Will do then!

 

7 hours ago, plums said:

A sky bug in E4M1 where the sky hack can cut off an imp sprite

Yuck. I'll take a look at it.

 

7 hours ago, plums said:

A bunch of your multi-sector lifts can be partly split by bumping your head against the ceiling while on only one sector of the lift.

Ohh man, you are thorough! :) I will see what I can do about it. If it's too complicated for me to fix, then I will probably leave it alone. Let's see what I can figure out.

 

7 hours ago, plums said:

E4M8 has a bunch of slime trails in the final arena, dunno if you can do much about that because of the level geometry

I hate those. When I get rid of them in one place, they pop up in another. I will try and see if I can fix it with another nodebuilder (works most of the time).

 

THANKS for the feedback! I'm super grateful for it.

[plums]

14 minutes ago, Chris Hansen said:

Ohh man, you are thorough! :) I will see what I can do about it. If it's too complicated for me to fix, then I will probably leave it alone. Let's see what I can figure out.

Haha I catch people on these all the time, I got a bunch recently on maps by @cannonball, I'm sure he's tired of hearing about them. All you really need to do is add lower textures to the linedefs between the lift sectors; just consider what happens if only one sector of the lift moves up/down while the others stay, even when such a thing should be "impossible." In most cases it doesn't really matter if the player is able to separate the lifts, you just want to avoid the missing textures causing HOMs when possible.

 

There were a few more of these throughout the wad, I didn't take note of most of them though. IIRC Episode 4 had the most?

 

I am one of those weirdos who plays with random pitch-shifted sound effects, and one side effect of that is when there's a split lift like that you can hear it make two lift-moving sounds, since they don't play exactly in sync.

Edited December 4, 2023 by plums

[Chris Hansen]

8 hours ago, plums said:

E4M4 gives a bunch about missing MFLR8_2 flats

Hmm, this is a Doom texture so I can't replicate the problem. GZDoom reports no problems in the console. Did you mean another texture or am I misunderstanding you?

[Chris Hansen]

>>>> Download RC2 here <<<<

 

Lots of small changes as can be read in the posts above. The most critical bug was on E4M7 which has been fixed in this version along with many other changes. Changelog here - also included in the zip.

 

Note: Ingame demos will probably desync badly in RC2. They will be re-recorded for the final release.

 

Thank you for all the feedback and overall positive response so far!

Edited December 4, 2023 by Chris Hansen

[plums]

17 hours ago, Chris Hansen said:

Hmm, this is a Doom texture so I can't replicate the problem. GZDoom reports no problems in the console. Did you mean another texture or am I misunderstanding you?

Sorry, I misread the error, there's actually two problems.

 

First, Woof is complaining because you're using MFLR8_2 (a flat) as a wall texture. GZDoom won't complain because it doesn't care if you mix flats and textures.

 

Second, you have some floor/ceilings with just a dash ( - ) as the flat name, which is obviously not a real flat.

 

In both cases I think that all affected textures/flats are never visible to the player, so it's harmless as is, but also should be easy to find->replace to silence the errors and should have no visible impact on the map.

Edited December 5, 2023 by plums

[Chris Hansen]

Thank you for clearing that up for me! It's an odd mistake and not one typical for me. I wonder how or why it has happened and why i haven't noticed. I use PrBoom+, Eternity, DSDA and GZDoom to test my maps and never noticed the problem. But it's there and you found it and that's the most important thing. How it snuck it's way in there doesn't really matter that much. Other than it annoys me and hurts my pride! :D

 

I'll take a look at it.

[Bri0che]

I just finished E1 a minute ago, neat last map ! Very cool :D

I'm going through E2 right now… 

[Chris Hansen]

Thanks @Bri0che! Glad you've enjoyed playing it so far. I hope you'll keep finding it enjoyable!

 

9 hours ago, plums said:

In both cases I think that all affected textures/flats are never visible to the player, so it's harmless as is, but also should be easy to find->replace to silence the errors and should have no visible impact on the map

Fixed for RC3/final release. And yes, Find --> Replace in Doombuilder is a godsend in cases like this! I love that feature so much.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Chris Hansen

[Kor]

Maybe you caught this, but when I defeat the bosses in E4M8, nothing happens. I checked it in DoomBuilder, and you have sectors tagged 666/667, but they aren't opening. I checked in RC2, and got the same thing.

 

This was a good set of levels. I'll have to play it again sometime.

[Torn]

This looks like some classic Ultimate Doom fun. ;) I need to give it a spin at some point soon. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Torn

[Chris Hansen]

22 hours ago, Kor said:

Maybe you caught this, but when I defeat the bosses in E4M8, nothing happens. I checked it in DoomBuilder, and you have sectors tagged 666/667, but they aren't opening. I checked in RC2, and got the same thing.

 

This was a good set of levels. I'll have to play it again sometime.

I think you might be using a sourceport - or a version of a sourceport - that either does not support UMAPINFO or is outdated. Despite GZDoom being really good at eating almost anything, there is a version with a bug that prevents the last actions triggering when the bosses die in E4M7. Try a newer version of your sourceport or check that it supports UMAPINFO. To be sure, I just tried E4M7 (RC2) and it worked fine. I'm happy to hear that you've otherwise enjoyed playing this megawad :)

 

21 hours ago, Torn said:

This looks like some classic Ultimate Doom fun. ;) I need to give it a spin at some point soon. 

Thank you. I hope you have fun with it!

[boris]

Are you going for a December 10th release?

 

Added the rest of E2 to my playlist.

 

E2M5

• I didn't manage to find the secret exit. After finding the automap (which was an easy secret) it was clear where it was, but I couldn't figure out how to access it. Looking it up I was quite surprised that you could reach the exit in 30 or 40 seconds. The usual case of hidden in plain sight.

E2M9

• Even though I didn't find the secret exit in E2M5 I played it anyway
• Short and tough map, I like it

E2M6

• The following NUKAGE* sectors do not have the damaging special 7: 9, 211, 212, 213, 325. For sector 9 it's quite noticeable, becouse it's in the starting room and pretty big, and you might actually stand in it, the others are neglectible
• I found the danger sign at the edge of the world to be quite funny

E2M7

• I found this map rather confusing. It's big, it's not always clear where to go next, and there are a bunch of one-ways. That's pretty much why I didn't bother to look for the last missing secret (though looking it up in the editor I should have found it regularly)
• Linedefs 564 and 569 have the lower unpegged flag, but shouldn't
• This map also got a bunch of nukage sectors without the damaging effect, but for the most part they are small or not accessible

E2M8

• Cool looking level
• I'm not sure what's the intended way to play this map. I think I did it wrong, since I completely missed the teleporters to the outer platforms. But playing it the way I did seems to make it significantly easier (but not quicker)

 

On 12/3/2023 at 8:24 PM, Chris Hansen said:

Ohh man, @boris, where were you back 8 years ago when I released Monument!

 

Feel free to hit me up the next time you want to release something.

 

Here's the UDBScript I used to figure out what NUKAGE sectors are missing their effect:

/// <reference path="../udbscript.d.ts" />

`#version 5`;

`#name Harmless nukage finder`;

`#description Lists and selected all sectors with a NUKAGE floor that do not have sector special 7.`;

UDB.Map.getSectors().filter(s => s.floorTexture.startsWith("NUKAGE") && s.special != 7).forEach(s => { UDB.log(s); s.selected = true });

 

[Chris Hansen]

17 minutes ago, boris said:

Are you going for a December 10th release?

The thought crossed my mind long ago, but it's more important for me to release something decent than to hit a certain date. I still feel like this is release is a celebration of Doom's birthday even though it won't be on Dec 10.

 

18 minutes ago, boris said:

I found the danger sign at the edge of the world to be quite funny

Hehe!

 

18 minutes ago, boris said:

I found this map rather confusing.

As do most players. I think I might even have gone back and made changes to it since it's original release long ago. I guess I just had a ton of ideas and was totally enamoured by Doombuilder's possibilities that I sometimes kinda lost track of what's important. But it's still a level I love very much.

 

18 minutes ago, boris said:

I'm not sure what's the intended way to play this map.

There is more than one way and not really one that is better than the other. As you mention, one might be a little faster.

 

18 minutes ago, boris said:

Feel free to hit me up the next time you want to release something.

Thank you - and also for spotting more stupid mistakes! :) I will fix those asap!

[GarrettChan]

28 minutes ago, boris said:

E2M8

• I'm not sure what's the intended way to play this map. I think I did it wrong, since I completely missed the teleporters to the outer platforms. But playing it the way I did seems to make it significantly easier (but not quicker)

 

Please tell me you also tried to PG the Cyber and pushed them off the platform, so I don't need to feel like a lonely dumbass :)

Edited December 7, 2023 by GarrettChan

[boris]

11 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Please tell me you also tried to PG the Cyber and pushed them off the platform, so I don't need to feel like a lonely dumbass :)

 

I did use the PG from afar with them being on their platforms. I didn't push them off, though, probably because I didn't spew a constant stream of plasma at them, but hid from their rockets like a wuss over and over again.

[GarrettChan]

5 minutes ago, boris said:

I did use the PG from afar with them being on their platforms. I didn't push them off, though, probably because I didn't spew a constant stream of plasma at them, but hid from their rockets like a wuss over and over again.

Oh I see, but dang I almost found my companion :P

 

Because this is Boom, and Chris didn't put blocklines around them so you can PG enough them so they'll be knocked out of the platform and teleport out.

[Enclave]

Chris, 

 

This is seriously one of my all time top megawads. The level design is intricate and clever without being obtuse, the flow of each map is fun and engaging and it's never over the top. The texture work is great, the details are not extreme (which I prefer) I really, really enjoyed this mapset and I am only just starting episode 3. 

 

Really, thank you for crafting such an enjoyable WAD. It's an excellent reminder that DOOM megawads can be just as great as DOOM 2 ones. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Enclave

[Chris Hansen]

Thank you very much @Enclave! I am very happy to hear that you've enjoyed it so far and it sounds like you understand what I aimed for with this megawad.

[50milliarden]

Just started episode 4, and I gotta say, the first 3 episodes contained some of the best UltDoom levels I ever played. And since I generally prefer Doom 1 over Doom 2, that means this megawad is now solidly in my all-time personal top 10. Brilliant stuff!

 

One thing I'm not so enamored with are the phoned-in monsters, but I realize that they're a good way to spice up things, when working within the limitations of Doom1.

But even with those, gameplay feels nice and balanced, not overly hard or stressful. I was able to finish all episode 1, 2 and 3 levels on UV without saves and with 100% secrets. Gotta love not dying every 5 seconds.

 

But E4M1 got me stumped - I can't find a way to open the secret room in the southeast of the map (sealed by stone satyr doors), and god knows I tried. The way to approach it seems to be dropping down from the far-east platform onto the narrow ledge below and following the ledge south to the stone door... which doesn't open.

A little hint would be appreciated!

 

Also, reporting a very small case of misaligned textures in E3M6, see attachments.

 

 

[Chris Hansen]

I'm humbled by your praise and I am just glad to hear that you are having a lot of fun playing my levels.  Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, 50milliarden said:

But E4M1 got me stumped - I can't find a way to open the secret room in the southeast of the map (sealed by stone satyr doors), and god knows I tried. The way to approach it seems to be dropping down from the far-east platform onto the narrow ledge below and following the ledge south to the stone door... which doesn't open.

Damn it. Thanks for finding this bug. Yes, it's bugged. I've used a WR action when I should've used a SR action. Must have happened at some point when I was trying different things with that lift. You did everything right. It's just me releasing stuff with bugs in it :(

 

Both of the reported bugs have been squashed!

Edited December 8, 2023 by Chris Hansen

[boris]

I added E3M1 to the playlist. This one has commentary, where I explain my observations and thought processes. Let me know if it's useful, otherwise I'll not keep making a fool of myself trying to speak english ;)

[Chris Hansen]

Nice video! I like that you are commenting it while you play :) I've tried it before too and I agree that it can be a little daunting speaking English out loud for all those native speakers. I noticed a couple of small things in the level I might go back and change, nothing mayor. Thanks again and keep them coming!

[boris]

Added E3M2, E3M3, E3M4, and E3M5 to the playlist. I'm dumb and had the wrong scene selected in OBS for E3M2 and E3M3, so the window is cut off a bit and there's no in-game sound and music, but it's still OK I guess.

 

E3M4

• sector 655 is damaging, but only has a blood floor
• linedefs 3212, 3213, 3214: they all have a switch texture and a special, but only linedef 3213 has the majority of the skull texture. That means that you can activate the lines left and right of the actual skull, without the skull changing the texture

E3M5

• feels confusing an convoluted
• I only found 1 of 5 secrets, never found that few on the other maps
• you can fall into sectors 1017 and 1018 and get stuck.
• thing number 205 should probably the non-blocking variant, since it's pretty high up

Edited December 10, 2023 by boris

[Chris Hansen]

Thanks, @boris. I've seen the videos and picked up some of those issues as well from watching your play through. Still need to watch E3M5.