Ultimate Doom "In Name Only" - On IDgames

[mancubian_candidate]

Howdy Folks, just finished E1M3 and have to say this is amazing so far. Looking forward to blasting through this :D

[DJVCardMaster]

Are we still looking for a TITLEPIC? Or is it on the works?

[Ravendesk]

Actually finished e4 faster than I expected so here are the rest of the fdas: udino-e4-fdas-part2.zip

Once again, recorded with dsda-doom 0.26.2 -complevel 3 on udinorc2 and should be played back on the same dsda version.

 

A few thoughts on individual maps (nothing particularly useful there except for maybe e4m7):

e4m3:

Spoiler

If you thought shotgunning cacos in unfun, try chainsawing them. At least this map is fully faithful to it's title, unlike e4m2 that only hits the second half.

e4m4:

Spoiler

Incredibly fun map, my fav in the episode. Seemingly simple layout actually has a lot of depth to it.

e4m5:

Spoiler

The map is kinda similar to e4m4 in concept (you have to do a significant part of it pacifist), but it worked so much better for me, the space feels actually fun to navigate and finally crushing the cybers and getting all the guns to start the fight feels very rewarding.

e4m6:

Spoiler

Very similar to e4m2 in the way it works and what it wants from you, but was actually much more fun for me. The fact that BFG is accessible from the very beginning is a bit weird. I didn't see it since it's gray on the gray rock background, but trying the map again afterwards, it's possible to just lure all cybers out from the start and get the bfg and all the cells. Not sure if that makes it more fun or less, but ok.

e4m7:

Spoiler

I did a sequence break with an RJ over the yellow bars (see fda). It doesn't lead to a softlock since you can get out of there in two different ways, but I have a suspicion that it might have broken the final fight. These huge empty platforms that lower in the final fight totally looked like they were supposed to have spider masterminds on them, but they didn't teleport in for me.

e4m8:

Spoiler

Sick map, I love the concept, although the health is incredibly scarce on UV. Looking at some areas in this map drops my fps to single digit values. Final fight is one of them, although it's probably around 10. Still makes it significantly harder to play. There is no way to return back after the final fight?

 

Overall enjoyed e4, but e3 is still my strong fav. 

 

UDINO definitely managed to surprise me quite a few times during the playthrough, there are some real gems in the set and some very creative fights and setups, I totally did not expect ultimate doom wad to be able to pull all that off. Great stuff, thank you all for making these maps and congrats on the release. I would say top 4 maps for me were e3m6, e1m8, e3m2 and e1m7, but there was much more memorable stuff that I already mentioned.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ravendesk

[dobu gabu maru]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:53 PM, General Rainbow Bacon said:

But I can go in and make it harder if you want :D  Anyone else think it's too easy?

 

I think the map is fine as is, but its up to you if you want to add some extra spice. Remember to edit the version included in RC2 if you're going to do so.

 

On 7/28/2023 at 6:11 PM, plums said:

You can't hide your sky seams from me dobu

 

Thanks once more! Glad to hear you enjoyed Pandemonium—it's probably the most "fun" out of my maps in the set, due to the zany nature of it. I'm kind of curious to see what you'd think playing the rest of E4, and whether or not you think E4M7 feels like an outlier difficulty wise.

 

On 7/28/2023 at 1:42 AM, Catpho said:

A mountain of playthroughs

 

Thanks for the kind words! As you can see, the map is considerably more manageable once you understand that the goal of the map is to corral barons into teleporters, instead of simply running away from them. You witnessed firsthand how much a stray baron can be a problem in the red walkway room! As much as folks see the map as impenetrable on first blush, it really softens once you know where to go and where all the goodies are—there are plenty of armors and soulspheres to cushion even the prickliest parts. Of course the same can be said about every map ever made, but like the 90s maps of yore, a bulk of the difficulty vanishes once you understand what's being expected of you.

 

Per your questions:

 

Spoiler

Indeed, cell is there for baron cleanup in the final fight, as well as to assist players that dare to challenge the masterminds (the fight is intended to be "beatable" at 200hp/200armor and 300 cell). The last secret you missed is just another pack of cell—no idea where that last enemy wandered off to sadly. And the demons in the yellow key and blue key wing will transport into the final battle unless crushed. This was my way of keeping the final fight somewhat tense, as without a lot of barons sent into the teleporter closets, it's just a ton of standing around and waiting. But with the barons the arena gets far too congested, so my compromise was to award the player with less pinkies when they complete one of the wings. Of course, the tradeoff is that the areas prior activate a cyber for the final fight, so avoiding both wings and grabbing the secret red key definitely makes for the easiest finale.

 

What makes this my favorite map is that, like with Moonlight, the entire thing was a puzzle for me to even create. My idea before I started was to make a fully playable map where the only time the player is expected to stand and fight is in the final battle—which meant that I had to come up with several ways to provide "combat-less" gameplay without resorting to a monsterless jaunt a la Iron Exuviae. Not only that, but I had to make the map in reverse, figuring out the optimum number of enemies for the final fight, and then creating rooms for them to occupy in the hopes that they'll be led to a teleporter. And given the lack of Boom triggers, the finicky enemy pathing, and the unorthodox shape of the map (this is the first time I've ever made a level that's just a big crescent), this was only possible due to a decade of mapping experience behind me. It really serves as the culmination of my time as a mapper; and best of all, it lets barons be the threat they should be, instead of just meandering doors-with-health.

 

[cannonball]

14 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Are we still looking for a TITLEPIC? Or is it on the works?

Sincity2100 is working on an update to the current titlepic. Hopefully that should appear in the next rc.

Edited July 30, 2023 by cannonball

[DreadWanderer]

Finished episode 1 today, really nice. E1M7 was probably the most distinctive map of the set so far. I still haven't figured out the two switch puzzles, but I should totally give it another go later. Loved the reference to Doom's original E1M1 leading up to the destruction of the spider mastermind, class act right there!

[Catpho]

Ravendesk, chainsawing cacos is like half the fun of using the chainsaw (the other half is split between chainsawing revs & fodder, memes notwithstanding).

E3M6 - @Nine Inch Heels (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3)
 

This is probably the first time I share a recorded playthrough of a NIH map. I hope you don't wince too much at save spam :P

 

Loved it. Like Raven, in the vid there are some places that look like I could cheese, but the only one I mind is the one where you plasma a Cyber while collecting cells on thin ledges, which I felt kinda undercuts the fun. 

 

Also, I thought that you were really going to have me plasma 3 cybers on stilts. I'm glad it's just my overactive imagination.

[Inuk]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:14 PM, cannonball said:

At least for me with DSDA doom it works fine and as intended.

I think you're using the software-looking OpenGL renderer, which like hardware renderers in other ports doesn't appear to be able to see node builder errors at all. You'll get all the bugs plus nice slime trails if you're using the software renderer proper.

 

Now for my cheatthrough: I finished E4M8, found some bugs, and I completed quick 3x100% run through the rest of RC2. I really like how very little in this mappack feels samey. I especially like E1M7's take on techbases, one of the most boring environments to me, that map is easily up there with my all-time favourites. Still salty about E3M8, but I'm learning to appreciate its place in here.

Here are the bugs:

E1M4: Very small node (?) error, I am glad to say this is the only node bug that I could find and it can just be ignored.

E1M6: These stair blocks are bugged after they descend and then ascend again, they keep hurting even after losing the slime texture and becoming floor. I'm no mapper so I don't know how easy this is to deal with.

 

E3M7: The platforms in this area are very deceptive, the frame you see is much wider than the actual platform you can touch, which makes it very annoying to run across.

E3M8: I read some posts and learned everything I need to play it. I still think it's just not a good map. The normal route to beat it is fine, it does get in your face about infinite tallness that makes you appreciate how mappers usually take the time to work around engine limitations, but what you have to do to max it is truly arcane and none of it is telegraphed. It does at least feel good to get the jump and then you won't have to deal with the cacodemons.

To me, it's that map. More so than E4M8 or even E4M9, which I think is unfortunate, but I also came in with the completely wrong expectations.

E4M1: The texture misalignment and flying medkit remain.

E4M2: The row of armour bonuses on this ledge continue to mystify me. Alongside the glitchy fence grab you can do to get them, I also learned you can perform an extremely difficult SR50 parkour to them. I never found a more normal way to get them.

E4M8: It was daunting, but now that I've taken the time to play it, it's a really enjoyable map. Certainly very different, but just bring DSDA rewind and you'll have a good time learning it. I normally only like maps that will let you play all the way through in one unbroken blind run, rewarding attentiveness and preparing for ambushes (it'll be a long time before my Sunlust playthrough is done), but with time I learned to adjust and appreciate this one.

The WR teleport triggers in both of these long red stripe rooms are bugged, they're nearly impossible to touch because the player is too fat.

 

100% item completion is bugged: The soul sphere at the masterminds and the 5 soul spheres at the final cyberdemon fight are mutually exclusive. I think the simplest solution would be to replace the mastermind soul sphere with some large health packs, because attempting a reroute from the cyberdemon fight would also need to account for the fact that crushed masterminds don't trigger tag 666.

The flashing lights in front of the crusher maze are safe to stand in and makes it easy for the player to walk against the crusher and wait, instead of taking the effort to time their entry. This could be prevented by making the flashing sectors slimmer and closer to the wall.

 

This map also exhibits a very weird engine (?) bug: If you noclip back to the long crusher after completing the map, it will do double damage while crushing and also hurt you while rising. It probably depends on how you completed the map. This never happened while testing from the start of the map, and I haven't found anything that could explain why this happens. Pretty interesting, I don't think you'll encounter it while playing normally though.

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Inuk
embeds fixed hopefully

[Captain Keen]

I have to say, E3M3 (UDINO's Pandemonium) might be one of my favorite maps. Ever.

 

EDIT: I did notice one HOM effect in E1M7, near the Spider-Mastermind instakill (the area which was the exit of the original E1M1)

Edited July 30, 2023 by Captain Keen

[Steve D]

Here's updates to E1M2 and E4M2; Steve D Updates

 

In E1M2 I corrected some things that @Capellan pointed out. Just 2 things, actually, plus I added some minor detail.

 

E4M2 had the armor bonus issue that @Inuk discovered, and the related texture bleed that @taviow found. Both of these are because at some point I accidentally lowered that floor, exposing untextured lines and putting the armor bonuses out of reach. D'oh!

 

Another thing, CB, is that I changed my nick from SteveD to Steve D to prevent it appearing as STEVED in CPs. Perhaps in some of my maps, one can say that the player got "steved", but I'd still prefer the titles be changed to Steve D. ;D

 

I'll keep combing through the thread to see if any more fixes are needed. Also, if you wish, I could make E1M2 a little harder. I do like it as somewhat easier than the maps on either side of it, focusing more on secret hunting than brutality, but people do like their brutality, and I can accommodate them if you so wish. ;)  

[Inuk]

E3M7: These easy difficulty only pinkies are unable to move because their closets are too slim:

I found out you can quickly discover what you've been missing on difficulties you didn't try by search filtering for these difficulty-specific things in UDB, and this is the only bug I found with this method. Tried it in a different wad and I found a lot of different bugs, so that's a pretty good tool to have.

I mentioned E4M7 before as having an impossible secret, but that wasn't true; I've since gotten better at cheating (by playing through 1996's Eternal Doom) and I learned how to pick this secret apart correctly. Pretty well-hidden when it can withstand that kind of effort.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Inuk

[dobu gabu maru]

6 hours ago, Inuk said:

I really like how very little in this mappack feels samey. I especially like E1M7's take on techbases, one of the most boring environments to me, that map is easily up there with my all-time favourites.

 

Glad to hear that, and thanks for the fantastic feedback! I think episode 1 is the most "normal" of the bunch, what with a lot of similar boxy techbase crawls, so I wanted to do something a little weird and adventurous for E1M7 (as it was the last map completed for UDINO).

 

1 hour ago, Captain Keen said:

EDIT: I did notice one HOM effect in E1M7

 

Only... one... HOM...? ;)

[Firedust]

e2m8 sector 1611 (teleporter closet with cacos) is broken

 

there's not enough room for them to squeeze through and teleport in

 

playing in gzdoom 4.7.10

[Inuk]

59 minutes ago, Firedust said:

e2m8 sector 1611 (teleporter closet with cacos) is broken

Can confirm. This bug is caused by GZDoom having a different algorithm for checking collision when exactly on top of a linedef, you can fix it in GZDoom by enabling the vanilla algorithm: Use Doom's point-on-line algorithm.

For another example, this bug happens on Ancient Aliens MAP23, making it impossible to UV-Max on Zandronum which has this different algorithm but no way to switch to the vanilla one.

The mapper can fix by making the monster closet a bit more spacious on the other side of the teleporter line. I wonder if there are more maps with this bug.

[Firedust]

wow pandemonium is gorgeous

that imp section made me feel like I was playing gradius lol

Edited July 31, 2023 by Firedust

[plums]

On 7/30/2023 at 2:46 AM, dobu gabu maru said:

I'm kind of curious to see what you'd think playing the rest of E4, and whether or not you think E4M7 feels like an outlier difficulty wise.

So I've played through all the wad now (I think -- the order I've taken has been anything but straightforward) and I don't feel that E4M7 is *quite* as much as an outlier as in my previous post about it, but I also do feel it could benefit more from a bit more challenge. Playing it a second time I didn't feel in any danger at all, and a lot of the "big" fights felt more like extended clean-up sessions after a tough battle that never happened. Some basic suggestions that don't involve reworking the map too much:

 

-Replace the secret BFG with a big cell pack on UV. It makes the red key fight absolutely trivial.

 

-Don't allow the player to go into the blood area in the red key fight before the wall is actually lowered.

 

-Replace at least one soulsphere behind the spiderdemon cages with a berserk pack. On my second playthrough I didn't even need them all when I tried to make things as chaotic as possible by hitting all the spiderdemon switches as quickly as I could; playing for maximum safety I could get by without any of them.

 

The last fight I guess is fine since you can choose to speed things up if you find it too safe.

 

Some other stuff:

 

E1M7 rules and you're a madman. I got both secrets, great setups.

 

In E3M3 when coming back out of the big drop-down fight, there's a shotgun guy on a platform, and the platform is impassible so you can't actually get his gun. Except you can if he dies in the right place so you can bump it, and the impassible platform feels weird, so better just make it higher or replace him with a zombieman if you're committed to the no-shotgun thing.

 

On E3M5 pretty much none of the doors/lifts make sound properly.

 

In E4M3 the secret BFG puzzle is clever but absolutely not worth the effort unless you're trying to max the level for the sake of it. Give at least another 20 cells so you can get two shots off with it (including the 20 from the backpack).

 

There are a few other bugs I found but I think they've all been reported? So maybe I'll just wait until the next RC is out and double check then.

 

Anyhow, the wad as a whole is great, it's oddly cohesive for such a project due to the fact that people tended to follow the traditional episode themes, and there are a number of really great maps in them. Probably the best Ultimate Doom mapset I've ever seen, certainly the best to have the full 36 maps.

Edited August 1, 2023 by plums

[plums]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:03 PM, Steve D said:

Another thing, CB, is that I changed my nick from SteveD to Steve D to prevent it appearing as STEVED in CPs. Perhaps in some of my maps, one can say that the player got "steved", but I'd still prefer the titles be changed to Steve D. ;D

I fully support calling getting killed by a huge swarm of cacos "getting Steved." :D

 

edit: I think E1M2 plays fine, no need for maximum bloodlust on the 2nd map of the wad.

Edited August 1, 2023 by plums

[cannonball]

On 7/30/2023 at 11:03 PM, Steve D said:

Here's updates to E1M2 and E4M2; Steve D Updates

 

In E1M2 I corrected some things that @Capellan pointed out. Just 2 things, actually, plus I added some minor detail.

 

E4M2 had the armor bonus issue that @Inuk discovered, and the related texture bleed that @taviow found. Both of these are because at some point I accidentally lowered that floor, exposing untextured lines and putting the armor bonuses out of reach. D'oh!

 

Another thing, CB, is that I changed my nick from SteveD to Steve D to prevent it appearing as STEVED in CPs. Perhaps in some of my maps, one can say that the player got "steved", but I'd still prefer the titles be changed to Steve D. ;D

 

I'll keep combing through the thread to see if any more fixes are needed. Also, if you wish, I could make E1M2 a little harder. I do like it as somewhat easier than the maps on either side of it, focusing more on secret hunting than brutality, but people do like their brutality, and I can accommodate them if you so wish. ;)  

Whoops, well I can definitely amend the name to stop people being ‘STEVED’

Regarding E1M2 - You can make the map a little harder, but no expectations from me, I think the map is fine.

[Firedust]

I have a question about e3m6. People kept talking about a 'double rocket jump' to get to the secret exit, but you only need one? Did I do something wrong?

 

In all honesty the hardest part of the map was the western red key rising platform section, boy was that rage inducing lol

 

The rest was more than manageable and NIH was kind enough to provide the player with a blue armor and soulsphere before letting them attempt the said rocket jump. Great choice of track too!

[cannonball]

12 minutes ago, Firedust said:

I have a question about e3m6. People kept talking about a 'double rocket jump' to get to the secret exit, but you only need one? Did I do something wrong?

 

In all honesty the hardest part of the map was the western red key rising platform section, boy was that rage inducing lol

 

The rest was more than manageable and NIH was kind enough to provide the player with a blue armor and soulsphere before letting them attempt the said rocket jump. Great choice of track too!

 

Spoiler

Just a single rocket jump is required for E3M6 - The precise double is for the secret in E3M8 that is essential for getting all of the kills.

 

[Firedust]

Okay, e3m8 was a real bitch. I didn't bother uv maxing it because it takes some insane acrobatics to keep the barons, imps and cacos infighting with the cybs. Didn't even attempt the rocket jump. Great map, mind, but I can imagine how frustrating it would be to try and get full kills on it.

 

EDIT: How does e4m9 work? What difference does it make whether you answer yes or no? I answered no because I thought that would give me the complete experience, but I am not sure.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Firedust

[plums]

@Firedust the E3M8 secret vastly changes the way the map plays, without it you're not supposed to max the map, just survive long enough to beat it. This is my biggest issue with the map really, the fun path is locked behind a highly precise and niche trick. For now I recommend cheating to just noclip over there :p

 

E4M9: saying no means after completing every path you get to fight a cyberdemon, when you teleport back to the start. That's pretty much it. It makes the map much easier if you say yes because you get so many extra cells, but if you're going for 100% kills you need to say no.

Edited August 1, 2023 by plums

[Firedust]

18 minutes ago, plums said:

the E3M8 secret vastly changes the way the map plays, without it you're not supposed to max the map, just survive long enough to beat it. This is my biggest issue with the map really, the fun path is locked behind a highly precise and niche trick. For now I recommend cheating to just noclip over there :p

My issue is not getting the trick right, it's what comes after. Let's say I get it (I don't think it's that hard as long as you're not playing keyboard only), I'm still left with killing the cybs on the IoS panels and a crapton of lower-tier mobs in the main area. There's nowhere near enough ammo so I've got to make them infight, right? But that's a real pain in the ass because you have to herd the monsters to where the cybs are without getting hit by stray projectiles and rockets, rinse and repeat. Only then will I have enough ammo to kill off the rest of the cybs and kill the SMM. The lack of health makes this extremely difficult. Unless I'm missing something else...

Edited August 1, 2023 by Firedust

[plums]

7 minutes ago, Firedust said:

My issue is not getting the trick right, it's what comes after. Let's say I get it (I don't think it's that hard as long as you're not playing keyboard only), I'm still left with killing the cybs on the IoS panels and a crapton of lower-tier mobs in the main area. There's nowhere near enough ammo so I've got to make them infight, right? But that's a real pain in the ass because you have to herd the monsters to where the cybs are without getting hit by stray projectiles and rockets, rinse and repeat. Only then will I have enough ammo to kill off the rest of the cybs and kill the SMM. The lack of health makes this extremely difficult. Unless I'm missing something else...

You get a boatload of cells and health once you get the secret in E3M8, and a bunch of other things change. Really best to just try it and see, use IDDQD even if you just want to see what happens without any kind of challenge.

[Firedust]

6 minutes ago, plums said:

You get a boatload of cells and health once you get the secret in E3M8, and a bunch of other things change. Really best to just try it and see, use IDDQD even if you just want to see what happens without any kind of challenge.

Ah, thanks for the clarification! I thought that the secret only lets you telefrag the cybs in the towers! Well, this changes things completely.

[Firedust]

I have another question. Do you have to lure every baron into the teleporters to get full kills and secrets in e4m8?

 

EDIT: Never mind! I love how this map has two different endings depending on what you do.

 

The regular ending is easy and takes literally a couple minutes.

The secret ending is hard but the final fight definitely makes it all worth it. Fantastic map!

Edited August 2, 2023 by Firedust

[boom_compatible]

Great mapset! Congratulations to everyone who participated in the creation of this wonderful WAD for ultimate doom!

 

Some minor problems with coop were encountered:

Spoiler

E1M5:
Line 1470 is S1 (blue door) and will close again.

 

E1M9:

Line 2190 is S1 and the blue door will close the path again.

 

E3M7:

Line 9431 is a S1 switch and the player has access to that switch before the trap. (SR or hide the SW?)

 

E4M3:

Line 776 is a W1 teleport and only one player can progress.

 

E4M8:

With a large number of players in coop, the map can be finished quickly as the BFG is in the final part of the map.

As there is already a BFG in sector 679, removing the BFG from the final part of the map would force players to explore the rest of the map.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by boom_compatible

[erzboesewicht]

Played the first two episodes. Really liked it! Maybe Cacoward material for me :)

 

Micro-review of the individual maps (Edit: I should add that I played on UV, pistol starts with saves):

 

E1:
 

Spoiler

 

E1M1: Hangar - Eli Cohen (Processingcontrol) - Quite nice. I liked the slightly twisted techbase atmosphere with Plutonia(?) textures (blue waterfall-windows). I however agree with those saying the end is a bit goofy. Last secret is a bit obscure, but I found it after a long hunt. 8/10
E1M2: Nuclear Plant - Steve Duff (SteveD) - A very Doomcute nuclear plant. Combat gets ramped up a bit, particularly in the reactor fight, but still easy. I expected some more puzzles here, but I guess it's ok to not overload the player too early and some of the secrets (the pillar walk and the central crate) were really nice. 8/10
E1M3: Toxin Refinery - Stuart Rynn (Stewboy) - with edits by Jawsinspace and Cannonball - Perhaps the most traditional Doom map in E1/E2. The central area, with lowtiers coming from all directions, is the highlight for me, although I liked also the damaging floor fight where lights were switched off. 7/10
E1M4: Command Control - Stuart Rynn (Stewboy) - with edits by DJVCardmaster, dobu gabu maru and Cannonball - Likeable, very traditional Romeroesque visuals but a more complex layout with interesting lift mechanisms. Fun Doom1 gameplay. I liked the secret entrance. 8/10
E1M5: Phobos Lab - Sincity2100 - with edits by Jawsinspace, dobu gabu maru and Cannonball - The one I least liked of E1. Quite square and with an inventive but (imo) not very enjoyable teleport puzzle at the end. 5/10
E1M6: Central Processing - Matt Powell (Cannonball) - First one I _really_ consider outstanding. Excellent fun map with plenty of damaging floors. That's how I imagined a "Toxin Refinery", in reality. Good last fight. 10/10
E1M7: Computer Station - Darryl Steffan (dobu gabu maru) - First weird puzzle map in the set. Got both secrets. I had difficulties with the timed switch puzzle because I suck at everything which requires too precise movement, but that's why we have saves :) Gimmicky but satisfying main fight in the outdoor(?) area. Excellent idea at the end. 10/10
E1M8: Phobos Anomaly - Armaetus - with edits by Cannonball - Excellent reinterpretation of the E1M8 fight, with imps and cacos thrown in the Baron-spectre mix. Only these last spectres .. I guess they should prevent you escaping too early, but who would do that if there's such a nice massacre going on? Anyway 10/10
E1M9: Military Base - Matt Powell (Cannonball) - Simple and straightforward fun, with a very creative secret in the "cinema" (?) area. 7/10

 

Possible bugs:
- I got stuck in E1M7 just when I started the return from the crushed spider and returned into the now corrupted E1M1 techbase. At least it felt so. Maybe some of these lower floors are intended as death pits?

 

 

E2:

 

Spoiler

 

E2M1: Deimos Anomaly - PedroVC - with edits by dobu gabu maru. Has good atmosphere, although it felt a bit linear, which of course may be intended as a reference to the original. 7/10
E2M2: Containment Area - Riderr3 - One of the more traditional maps in the set, with few "techbase corruptions", but a likeable one. It had a lot of nice details and geometry-based secrets. I also liked the pacing with much quiet exploration and some more intense parts. 9/10
E2M3: Refinery - DJVCardmaster - with edits by Jawsinspace and Cannonball - A large fun map with plenty of damaging floors and some crushers, very much in the vein of E1M6, but without a central slaughter fight. Cute reference to the original. There is a stair step near the yellow door/exit with a different texture, which I thought to be a secret but it seems it was an oversight? 9/10
E2M4: Deimos Lab - Scifista42 - with edits by dobu gabu maru: A map with some very different sections. The caco-platforming part felt perhaps a little bit too disconnected from the rest. But the timed fights in the "labs" were really nice and intense, in particular I liked the layout of the Baron fight, good use of "partially bumpy" and "partially damaging" floors. 9/10
E2M5: Command Center - Cyriak Harris (Mouldy) - A really well made city-fortress, with continuous pressure due to new enemies spawning several times in all parts of the map. I liked the secret which leads to the secret exit. 9/10
E2M6: Halls of the Damned - PedroVC - with edits by dobu gabu maru - Here we're in Hell it seems. A conceptual map which takes its title quite literally - the "Damned" are groups of lost souls which dominate most battles, which is a nice unconventional concept. I hated the red key part, but this is because I suck at platforming even if it's easy, and hadn't found neither of the PRs yet. Some constructive criticism: Two of the secrets (the one in the Berserk cavern and the PR behind bars) are quite obscure, for me that's already "hump every wall" territory. The other two secrets were quite good although also relatively difficult. 8/10

E2M7: Spawning Vats - General Rainbow Bacon - with edits by dobu gabu maru. Here we go full 90s with all kinds of textures thrown together, but in a good way! Another concept map very close to the title, the "vats" spawn monsters and fireballs. Simple but satisfying end fight (I had no BFG, found it later though). Did't find the invul and automap secrets, but looked them up in the editor, and they were still ok. Short remark: I thought something valuable was behind these lowering lights in the "toxic tank area" as they're not completely synced to the nearby lift. Took ages to jump there (to find out there was nothing, haha). 9/10
E2M8: Tower of Babel - Alex Scott (Scotty). Impressive architecture, I liked the "star tower" even more than the Tower of Babel. Classic cybie fight made more intense by making the arena more cramped and bumpy and adding more monsters, but easier than E1M8. Perhaps the build-up is a tiny little bit too long, but on the other hand, this makes it easier to justify that architecture. 9/10
E2M9: Fortress of Mystery - Dreadopp - with edits by dobu gabu maru - Quite good puzzle map, a bit more obscure and mysterious than E1M7, fits the title perfectly. I like how the doors gradually open up when you hit some semi-hidden switches, and how that "bottomless" corridor leading (almost) to nothing trolls you. The ceiling cage maze fight was a bit annoying, but fortunately short. 9/10

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by erzboesewicht

[Magnusblitz]

Well well well, what have we here... good to see this is finally getting close to release!

 

I'll try to take another spin through every map (or at least, most of them, not sure if I have it in me for the E3M6-8 trek lol). Playing using GZDoom 4.10.0. UV and pistol starts for now, may need to lower it in later maps.

 

E1M1: Hangar by Processingcontrol

 

Does it fit the title: Yes, while not the central part of the level, there is a hangar at the end
Able to 100% kills and secrets? Yes
Secrets found without cheating: 1/4

A little surprised to see this one made the cut as it was always a bit divisive, or maybe it was just me that never liked it that much, heh. I do like the uncommon height design, with the trek up to the hangar really giving a sense of scale, but I thought the titular hangar itself was a bit underwhelming, and for something called In Name Only it felt like a bit of a demerit, especially being the opening map. Really needs a doomcute vehicle or two in there I think. Ah well, this set is like 10 years old, can't complain.

Gameplay-wise it's fine, basically a linear climb upwards, lots of small fry that can be surprisingly dangerous since the shotgunners have a bit of open room to work with. The BROWNHUG isn't very visually stimulating but it's fine. The end is a bit dippy with the jump out the window, and it didn't quite work for me, I fell into a black pit with skybox floor and had to walk forward until hitting the exit line. Could use some reworking here I think. Other than that, only complaint is that the BROWNHUG could be better aligned in some areas (linedefs 1485/382 and 804/806 stood out to me).
 

 

 

E1M2: Nuclear Plant by SteveD

 

Does it fit the title: Yes, definitely
Able to 100% kills and secrets? Yes
Secrets found without cheating: 3/9

Ah, I remember this one... a solid techbase map, filled to the brim with lots of doomcute details. Looks great and plays pretty well, and there's lots to explore. It's maybe a wee bit long but it's mostly small fry enemies and there's barrels to blow up, so not too much of a problem.

The secrets are a bit dastardly. The switch for the blue armor in the water area is especially well hidden (in a good way), the white rock really obscures the switch texture well. The green armor in the north of the map might be a bit too obtuse, maybe add a glowing floor (or even just a line) to the spot you need to run over? I don't think I ever would've found this one without checking the map editor; at the least the blue armor you can see so you know to look for a way up there.

 

 

E1M3: Toxin Refinery by Stewboy (edits by Jaws and Cannonball)

 

 

Does it fit the title: Yes
Able to 100% kills and secrets? Yes
Secrets found without cheating: 5/6

This one was new to me (or I've forgotten it). Another very good techbase map, adhering more closely to the original KDITD designs but not slavishly. There's a lot of classic style design points I like here, such as the interconnectedness, the movement of the level (walls opening up, the rising staircase, etc) and use of darkness.

 

Ammo was a bit stringent early on as I found myself needing to pistol even the cacos. Once getting the chaingun and backpack (fairly close together) it was no longer an issue. Maybe add a couple of shell pickups in the first few areas? A minor complaint to be sure.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Magnusblitz

[dobu gabu maru]

On 8/1/2023 at 1:02 AM, plums said:

Some other stuff:

 

Good catches! I have an idea for an adjustment to E4M7 that I haven't gotten around to because it means I'll have to playtest it a bunch :P Also thanks for all the silent door notifications. Before submitting my maps to the RC, I moved all the dummy sectors off to one side of the map for cohesion's sake—big mistake on my part!

 

On 8/2/2023 at 6:04 PM, Firedust said:

I have another question. Do you have to lure every baron into the teleporters to get full kills and secrets in e4m8?

 

Kinda. You have to lure enough enemies (not just barons) into the teleporter in order to open the dead baron door, and then you're free to kill the rest. But teleporting extra enemies away ensures they'll be crushed during the final fight, which IMO is probably easier than zerk punching a bunch of them. By the way, what do you mean by the regular ending is easy? Can you explain your method?

 

18 hours ago, Magnusblitz said:

Well well well, what have we here...

 

Glad to have you back! Looking forward to your thoughts (and yeah the E3M6-E3M8 trek is a remarkably brutal trilogy)