"OCTATE" - My first map, dedicated to my father John W. Anderson (aka "Dr. Sleep")

[Kroc]

Fascinating. "Stunning" is perhaps what I would call it. It has the language of Doom mapping but from a first-time mapper, and one who had never played the game either at that! It's taken 30 years to build up a 'language' of the way maps should work, how secrets should behave, what textures do what. All of that is here and yet it's fresh and new too. Even besides the touching story that goes with this, it should be liable for a "Newcomer of the Year" Cacoward, at least a mentionation.

[Mr. Hypnos]

1 hour ago, Kroc said:

Fascinating. "Stunning" is perhaps what I would call it. It has the language of Doom mapping but from a first-time mapper, and one who had never played the game either at that! It's taken 30 years to build up a 'language' of the way maps should work, how secrets should behave, what textures do what. All of that is here and yet it's fresh and new too. Even besides the touching story that goes with this, it should be liable for a "Newcomer of the Year" Cacoward, at least a mentionation.

I really appreciate the kind words, thank you. I’m glad that I was able to remind people of the Doom from the early days, even though I didn’t even know what the classic style of Doom was when I designed my map. Outside of my father’s levels, I think I only played maybe 6 or 7 others from Doom II. My favorites are the puzzle style and novelty-ish maps like “Tricks and Traps” and “Bad Dream.” Absolutely love that style. 
 

Having to chainsaw through the Revenant in the narrow hall in “Bad Dream” is honestly my favorite encounter with a monster that I’ve come across in Doom so far and heavily inspired how my second level begins. It’s sort of going to be an open world puzzle map and it’s been a blast designing it so far. It’s almost a good thing that I still haven’t played all of the levels from Doom II and basically none from the original Doom or Ultimate Doom yet, because I’m very excited to get to experience most of them for the first time. 
 

Also, I really appreciate the Cacoaward comment, that would be absolutely incredible. But I think we all know who that one is gonna go to…

[Kroc]

That one Caco...

[Mr. Hypnos]

5 minutes ago, Kroc said:

That one Caco...

That’s hilarious lol. I was greeted by that Caco exactly the same way every time for nearly half a year. 

[LadyMistDragon]

Finally got around to this (it was about as long as I expected), and I'd like to note a couple of things.

 

 

Dr. Sleep never really ventured outside what I've viewed as the hell-adjacent vanilla themes, stuff that might belong in E4 to some degree but containing their own distinctive character. I had to wonder if you would just copy him in essence and that's definitely not the case here. Otherwise, you might make something like Crossing Acheron or Dante's Gate that seem like they were designed both for single and multiplayer (like the one Heretic map he made I can't remember the name of right now.

 

But one thing you do seem to have emulated is an intuitive approach to level design that encourages players to find secrets. A lot of people put shootable switches in some extremely obscure position and that's definitely not the case here.

 

Finally, I'd probably try to say something about that oddball dirt wall required for progression but looks like that was addressed so I'll say no more about that.

 

I enjoyed it quite a bit though!

 

 

[Captain Keen]

Fantastic map. Wonderful story. Really great level design and a solid use of Doom aesthetics and combat vs. exploration balancing.

 

@Mr. Hypnos I briefly corresponded with John in the 90s, and he seemed to be a genuinely humble and decent person who had a remarkable passion for his work. He sent me some signed Daikatana gear, which I still have this to day! This was around the time he was working on that game and, if my memory serves me right, Kingpin. I was very sad to hear about his passing.

 

I'm adopted myself and also never knew my birth father, though I was raised with this information from an early age.

[princetontiger]

I have this crazy idea... (and yes, I do agree you deserve newcomer of the year, especially given the significant of Dr. Sleep to the Doom community)

 

ok, crazy idea... why not complete the Inferno series? We've been waiting for the final installment for years: Lethe. I think everyone would agree that you're ready.

Edited July 20, 2023 by princetontiger

[Mr. Hypnos]

23 hours ago, retrogamer97 said:

 

I finally just watched this video… and my eyes were glued to it the entire time. It placed the level in a totally different light and made it look so alien, yet still so true to the original. The battles were extremely intense and had my heart pounding. What port is this, just curious?   
 

Also, thank you for playing. 

[Roebloz]

I'll take a look at this for sure!!!

10 minutes ago, Mr. Hypnos said:

I finally just watched this video… and my eyes were glued to it the entire time. It placed the level in a totally different light and made it look so alien, yet still so true to the original. The battles were extremely intense and had my heart pounding. What port is this, just curious?   
 

Also, thank you for playing. 

Want me to test it with the Lambda mod so it looks even more different?

[retrogamer97]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hypnos said:

I finally just watched this video… and my eyes were glued to it the entire time. It placed the level in a totally different light and made it look so alien, yet still so true to the original. The battles were extremely intense and had my heart pounding. What port is this, just curious?   
 

Also, thank you for playing. 

GZdoom

[Mr. Hypnos]

5 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Finally got around to this (it was about as long as I expected), and I'd like to note a couple of things.

 

 

Dr. Sleep never really ventured outside what I've viewed as the hell-adjacent vanilla themes, stuff that might belong in E4 to some degree but containing their own distinctive character. I had to wonder if you would just copy him in essence and that's definitely not the case here. Otherwise, you might make something like Crossing Acheron or Dante's Gate that seem like they were designed both for single and multiplayer (like the one Heretic map he made I can't remember the name of right now.

 

But one thing you do seem to have emulated is an intuitive approach to level design that encourages players to find secrets. A lot of people put shootable switches in some extremely obscure position and that's definitely not the case here.

 

Finally, I'd probably try to say something about that oddball dirt wall required for progression but looks like that was addressed so I'll say no more about that.

 

I enjoyed it quite a bit though!

 

 

Thank you for checking out my level and for your feedback. I really enjoyed watching your playthrough video also. I definitely enjoy implementing secrets as long as they’re realistically achievable. I’m not a fan of secrets hidden behind things that you would never think to be visually unique. I like to at least offer a giveaway of some sort. I’m honestly surprised that so many people are having issues finding the secret that’s required at the end. I did emphasize it some, but whether that’s enough to make it less frustrating, I’m not sure. 

[lubba127]

cute. what a lovely tribute to your father. very unconventional and TNT-esque and I thoroughly enjoyed playing through it. what a trippy concept that the elusive dr. sleep had a son who went on to develop a doom map in his name. I'll read through more of this thread tomorrow as it is already late where I am but I am interested in seeing your story, and I hope the Doom community sees more of you in the future!

[Mr. Hypnos]

6 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

Fantastic map. Wonderful story. Really great level design and a solid use of Doom aesthetics and combat vs. exploration balancing.

 

@Mr. Hypnos I briefly corresponded with John in the 90s, and he seemed to be a genuinely humble and decent person who had a remarkable passion for his work. He sent me some signed Daikatana gear, which I still have this to day! This was around the time he was working on that game and, if my memory serves me right, Kingpin. I was very sad to hear about his passing.

 

I'm adopted myself and also never knew my birth father, though I was raised with this information from an early age.

Thank you very much for your compliments on my level. That’s incredible that you actually got to speak to him. As a matter of fact, I think I recall you telling me this when I made my first post here way back in November when I asked to learn more about his contribution to Doom and what mapping was like in the 90’s. That’s awesome that you still have items that he sent you from way back then. I have a few movies and a book of his that my brother gave me. I really cherish them. I’m very sorry to hear that you never got to meet your birth father. I can relate to that a bit too well. 

[LadyMistDragon]

On 7/17/2023 at 8:32 PM, Mr. Hypnos said:

 

 

It was so surreal watching your play through video, thank you very much for that. I'm glad that the music helped enhance the atmosphere of the level. I initially wrote it as a piano piece not long after finding out about my father (he played piano too, imagine that) and felt that it would only be right to use it as the music track for my level. I thought that an electronic rendition would be a bit more suitable for a video game though, which is how the percussive/synth portion of the song came about. 

 

 

 

Did he ever compose music by any chance?

[Mr. Hypnos]

6 hours ago, princetontiger said:

I have this crazy idea... (and yes, I do agree you deserve newcomer of the year, especially given the significant of Dr. Sleep to the Doom community)

 

ok, crazy idea... why not complete the Inferno series? We've been waiting for the final installment for years: Lethe. I think everyone would agree that you're ready.

I really want to thank you for mentioning me on the Cacoaward thread, that truly means a lot to me. 
 

But oh man… 

 

I’d be lying if I said that the thought of finishing “Lethe” for my dad never crossed my mind, but there’s some serious nerves that would be involved with taking on a project as big as that one. The last thing I’d want to do is disappoint anyone by not delivering on what is probably expected and desired from it by now. But if enough people wanted it, how could I say no? 

[Mr. Hypnos]

5 hours ago, Roebloz said:

I'll take a look at this for sure!!!

Want me to test it with the Lambda mod so it looks even more different?

I’m not sure what Lambda is, but yeah definitely. I would love to see it. 

[Mr. Hypnos]

42 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

 

 

Did he ever compose music by any chance?

I know that he loved playing piano and was very, very good at it. But as far as composing anything, I’m honestly not too sure. As artistic as he was I would be shocked if he didn’t attempt it. 

[Roebloz]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Hypnos said:

I’m not sure what Lambda is, but yeah definitely. I would love to see it. 

It basically replaces all the weapons with Half-Life 1 weapons. It's pretty cool.

 

[LadyMistDragon]

15 hours ago, Mr. Hypnos said:

 

I’d be lying if I said that the thought of finishing “Lethe” for my dad never crossed my mind, but there’s some serious nerves that would be involved with taking on a project as big as that one. The last thing I’d want to do is disappoint anyone by not delivering on what is probably expected and desired from it by now. But if enough people wanted it, how could I say no? 

 

 

Is there a file of it somewhere? I think that would make the difference:)

[Mr. Hypnos]

49 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

 

 

Is there a file of it somewhere? I think that would make the difference:)

Trust me, I tried digging around and couldn’t find anything. I have one more thing I’m going to try though before I lose hope completely.. 

[Fadri]

Well, definitively the way you knew about the game for the first time is going to be hard to beat by anyone in a long time! XD
It's sad you were too late to know your biological father in person, though. My condolences.

About your map, I'm surprised how good it feels (a very classic feeling gameplay wise) even thought you're saying you haven't played that much Doom and, watching your answers in this thread, you seem to be not familiar with a lot of concepts, like people playing with mods that change the look of the game or the weapons.
Another interesting thing about the map is how full of unmarked ~kind-of-secrets~ is, and also has all those "Doom cute" computer panels everywhere. (Are you already been told about "Doom cute"? Am I the first one to tell you about it? xD).

Anyway, I completed your map. XD
I hope you will keep making more because this was fun!

Edited July 21, 2023 by Fadri

[Mr. Hypnos]

2 hours ago, Fadri said:

Well, definitively the way you knew about the game for the first time is going to be hard to beat by anyone in a long time! XD
It's sad you were too late to know your biological father in person, though. My condolences.

About your map, I'm surprised how good it feels (a very classic feeling gameplay wise) even thought you're saying you haven't played that much Doom and, watching your answers in this thread, you seem to be not familiar with a lot of concepts, like people playing with mods that change the look of the game or the weapons.
Another interesting thing about the map is how full of unmarked ~kind-of-secrets~ is, and also has all those "Doom cute" computer panels everywhere. (Are you already been told about "Doom cute"? Am I the first one to tell you about it? xD).

Anyway, I completed your map. XD
I hope you will keep making more because this was fun!

 

 

Thank you for your condolences and also for playing my map, it really means a lot to me. I'm glad you enjoyed the classic feel of the gameplay and had some fun with the non-secrets. I've seen "doomcute" mentioned plenty of times in this community but I don't really know what it is. I'm guessing that it has something to do with having very decorative or unique textures and objects that weren't present in the original games? 

 

As far as making future maps goes, my second level is actually in the very early stages of being designed. It's a puzzle-oriented map with its fair share of tricks (and traps)... and if you're a chainsaw advocate as your description says, I think you'll enjoy it. 

[Midway64]

51 minutes ago, Mr. Hypnos said:

I've seen "doomcute" mentioned plenty of times in this community but I don't really know what it is. I'm guessing that it has something to do with having very decorative or unique textures and objects that weren't present in the original games?

 

You got it kinda right on the first one.

It's basically the depiction of real life stuff, like a kid's dorm-room for example, and as a bigger example, the various 'myhouse' (unrelated to that one PK3) levels people used to make in the 90s.

Even TNT: Evilution (an official IWAD) got some 'doomcute' in some of its levels.

 

The use of textures depends on how it's used, as the point of 'doomcute' IIRC was about doing it with the available resources you were offered.

[Epstein_Murdered_Why]

I'm not afraid to admit it, but I got choked up reading your initial post to this thread. 

 

What a POWERFUL story.

 

And your creating of a map, to better understand the man you never met...

 

Just...  WOW.

 

My heart goes out to you and your trying circumstances.  It appears that you're doing your utmost to process the revelations, to learn from them, to grow from them, and be a stronger and better person for it.  My hat goes off to you.

 

I will definitely try your map.  The praise that it's garnered is a great sign.  

 

Thank you for sharing your story, your heart, your mind, your passion, your labor, and your generosity with the community.  

 

You've created a legacy.

[Mr. Hypnos]

I really thank you for everything that you said here. It means a lot to me, honestly. I’m just grateful that there was an active community still out there that would be kind enough to listen to my story and help allow me to process everything that has happened over the past year. It was an extremely disorienting and isolating feeling when I first learned about the news of my dad and that he was no longer here. So, being able to share my story and the art that I created out of the negative circumstances that I was given, with all of you on DW has been amazing. I don’t feel nearly as alone anymore. 
 

On the downside, I’ve come to learn that there are alternate Doom boards out there that are doubting my credibility, which I get. It’s a very unexpected story and it is the internet after all. I’ve provided proof to one of the members on there to share with the moderation team and hopefully put it to rest. I haven’t been asked to provide proof by anyone on Doomworld yet (other than some troll), but I won’t hesitate to do so if requested. 

[Midway64]

There's a hella lot of people which, no matter how hard you try, will find a way to doubt you.

But don't worry bud, I trust you with my gut.

 

You did great sharing proof with the moderation team, and I hope they manage to prove those doubtful ones wrong.

In the mean time, grab a seat in here, get a snack, make yourself home, and chill here.

 

Everyone should be welcomed here after all, even the new-doomers, the aspiring modders, or the secret son of a known member.

[Mr. Hypnos]

2 hours ago, ValveMercenary said:

Everyone should be welcomed here after all, even the new-doomers, the aspiring modders, or the secret son of a known member.

Thank you man. This seems like a great community. I would definitely like to stick around.

[Herr Dethnout]

Just now, Mr. Hypnos said:

On the downside, I’ve come to learn that there are alternate Doom boards out there that are doubting my credibility, which I get. It’s a very unexpected story and it is the internet after all. I’ve provided proof to one of the members on there to share with the moderation team and hopefully put it to rest. I haven’t been asked to provide proof by anyone on Doomworld yet (other than some troll), but I won’t hesitate to do so if requested. 

Yup, and will no hide that I'm one of the guys that is having some doubts about your story (and probably being a little blunt sorry. But also I'm trying keeping neutral, cuz it can or cannot be after all), but yeah if you give proof (although no need to prove anything to nobody, is appreciated to eliminitate any sight of doubt) then for me that particular topic is over :P

Anyways, since I'm finally have some free Doom time (finished other wads) I will finally give a try to your map. I expect a lot of the gimmicks of Sleep right here (like Shotgun Start, complex lighting, and great use of Wooden and hellish textures), my only complain so far is the 12 mb file size... Are you using a mp3 for music?

 

Spoiler

On 7/20/2023 at 11:23 PM, Mr. Hypnos said:

I’d be lying if I said that the thought of finishing “Lethe” for my dad never crossed my mind, but there’s some serious nerves that would be involved with taking on a project as big as that one. The last thing I’d want to do is disappoint anyone by not delivering on what is probably expected and desired from it by now. But if enough people wanted it, how could I say no? 

afaik there's a "finished" (cuz yeah, is rather difficult to finish a map where the only info is one screenshot) on the E4M8 map in Ultimate Doom the Way id Did but that doesn't need to stop you to give your own version. So good luck if you want to try it :P

 

[Captain Keen]

On 7/20/2023 at 7:38 PM, Mr. Hypnos said:

I have a few movies and a book of his that my brother gave me.

 

Definitely keep those around! Interestingly, the reason I got to speak with him back then is because he was a fan of a novel my mom had written and he wanted a signed copy. She knew I was into Doom and FPS games (I was still a kid at this time) and mentioned it to me. I remember when I thanked him for sending me the John Romero signed Daikatana gear that he in turn thanked me for helping him get a signed copy of the book. Truly a humble guy! And I don't remember all of our correspondence but I had a few game specific questions and he answered everything with a lot of detail and passion for his work. I'm pretty sure he was working on Kingpin at the time but was still close with the Daikatana team, and despite everything that has already been written about that game I know it was fairly easy for him to reach out to Romero and he appeared to have a good relationship with all of them. Some of this is a little fuzzy, though, since it's 25 years ago now!

Edited July 22, 2023 by Captain Keen

[Mr. Hypnos]

1 hour ago, Herr Dethnout said:

Yup, and will no hide that I'm one of the guys that is having some doubts about your story (and probably being a little blunt sorry. But also I'm trying keeping neutral, cuz it can or cannot be after all)

That’s alright. Like I said, I get it. You can never be too trusting on the internet. 
 

But thanks for checking out my level. You may be a bit disappointed that there isn’t much wood texturing, but there’s plenty of marble. And yes, the music track is an mp3. Should I be using a different format?